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[werothegreat]

(I know, I know, I'm starting yet *another* thread, sue me)

Donald X mentioned he considers Remodel/Vault as a category for cards that can do something with a copy of themselves when they show up together in your hand.  I think we can all agree we need a better name than "Remodel/Vault" for the category.  We've already had a couple suggestions from myself, SheCantSayNo and crlundy.  What do you think?

[Donald X.]

Donald X mentioned he considers Remodel/Vault as a category for cards that can do something with a copy of themselves when they show up together in your hand.  I think we can all agree we need a better name than "Remodel/Vault" for the category.  We've already had a couple suggestions from myself, SheCantSayNo and crlundy.  What do you think?

You guys haven't been talking about this category, so I am guessing you won't start to. I guess you want to name the wiki page.

It's not that they specifically need you to draw two of the same card ala "self-synergy"; maybe I put that poorly. They give you a use for dead actions. They are useful with a copy of themselves but also with other dead actions. You use them on themselves especially often but that's not because they are especially good at that, it just falls out of this being the card you can spam. Spammable terminals, there you go.

[crlundy]

I think this is a worthy thread, and possibly an area for new discussion. (There was a call for quality forum posts?)

Also, I think Donald just coined this more effectively than we ever will.

[spiralstaircase]

"Spammable terminals" = "Sperminals"?

[crlundy]

I figured it was worth getting a wiki page, so I made it. I didn't add it to the card category navbox in case there's a call to change the name/scrap the page. It's rather dull at the moment, I'm looking for feedback.

The "Examples" section lists all cards that fit the description at the top, regardless of whether players are actually like to spam them. (I don't expect to regularly see anyone Altar an Altar or Stonemason a Stonemason.) I'm guessing the list could be more subjective and take into account their spammability.

[Ozle]

Can we call it 'Dave'?

[Ozle]

"Spammable terminals" = "Sperminals"?

You are my new favourite person

[Chris is me]

"Spammable Terminals" isn't quite right. You can't exactly spam Remodel... It just does something with the other terminal in your hand if you want. Though that is certainly a better name for Vailt, which just doesn't care about drawing anything dead at all.

"Cards that dont mind terminal collision nearly as much as regular terminals" doesn't have the same ring to it. I mean this basically applies to any terminal that does stuff with cards in your hand that could be Action cards.

[chipperMDW]

"Spammable Terminals" isn't quite right.

How about "Soft Terminals"? Like, they can collide, but it's not too bad.

And the other ones would be "Hard Terminals."

[Lekkit]

Collidable terminals?

[Chris is me]

"Spammable Terminals" isn't quite right.

How about "Soft Terminals"? Like, they can collide, but it's not too bad.

I like Soft Terminals. For example, Horse Traders is a soft terminal because it already makes 2 cards in your hand dead cards. Storeroom is a soft terminal because it gets value from any card in hand, including dead terminals. Etc etc.

Soft also implies a spectrum of usefulness more than "spammable" does, which implies you can buy as many as you want with no consequence.

[werothegreat]

I figured it was worth getting a wiki page, so I made it. I didn't add it to the card category navbox in case there's a call to change the name/scrap the page. It's rather dull at the moment, I'm looking for feedback.

The "Examples" section lists all cards that fit the description at the top, regardless of whether players are actually like to spam them. (I don't expect to regularly see anyone Altar an Altar or Stonemason a Stonemason.) I'm guessing the list could be more subjective and take into account their spammability.

I would hold off until the community settles on one name.  Right now it looks like Supercollider is in the lead.  Better to use the name that the community actually uses for the category.

EDIT: Also, I like card lists on the wiki to be in expansion order, then cost order, THEN alphabetical order.  I think it works better that way.

[AJD]

Alternatively, we could just acknowledge that these are two separate categories (trash-for-benefit and discard-for-benefit) that happen to have a property in common that Donald finds useful from a design standpoint.

[Chris is me]

Alternatively, we could just acknowledge that these are two separate categories (trash-for-benefit and discard-for-benefit) that happen to have a property in common that Donald finds useful from a design standpoint.

I'd also argue cards like Courtyard and Mandarin are "soft terminals" or "supercolliders" or whatever, because they allow you to topdeck a terminal you can't use that turn. But I guess that's juts three separate categories.

I think there is value in thinking of terminals from this paradigm. There's a difference in the number of other terminals you can buy when playing Envoy versus Courtyard - Envoy is a very hard terminal, Courtyard is a somewhat soft terminal. The softer the terminals you have, the more terminals your otherwise mostly Big Money deck can handle.

[werothegreat]

So it looks like it's between "supercollider" and "soft terminal", and I find myself leaning towards "soft terminal."

[TheOthin]

Count me in on the "soft terminal" camp. Descriptive and catchy.

[crlundy]

EDIT: Also, I like card lists on the wiki to be in expansion order, then cost order, THEN alphabetical order.  I think it works better that way.

I did some poking around so I think it's more consistent with the other pages now?

Alternatively, we could just acknowledge that these are two separate categories (trash-for-benefit and discard-for-benefit) that happen to have a property in common that Donald finds useful from a design standpoint.

There are some subtle differences. X-for-benefit cards are not necessarily terminal and, like Chris is me said, terminal topdeckers don't fit those categories and neither do Masquerade or Island. Still, I'm not sure that this will be a useful classification of cards for us, but it is for Donald so I think it's worth noting. I could see it being a sub-category on the terminals page, although Donald slipped in that he thinks of terminals, spammable terminals (for want of a better word), cantrips, and villages as four main and distinct categories.

[TheOthin]

The terminal/non-terminal/village distinction is definitely valuable for deckbuilding, and I've found myself keeping in mind the soft terminal distinction as well even without a group name for it.

[Ozle]

Can we also have a vote on how we managed to get through 4 years without a name for this!
How did we cope!

Luckily the almighty Donald X has shown us what we have been missing to make our lives complete!

[pacovf]

Can we also have a vote on how we managed to get through 4 years without a name for this!
How did we cope!

Luckily the almighty Donald X has shown us what we have been missing to make our lives complete!

All this time I've had this emptiness inside me... But no more. Thank you Donald for being there for us.

[chipperMDW]

Some relevant older quotes on this topic:

Silver isn't awful, and the game has this "only play one action per turn" rule. Those both seem like good things, but together they lead to, sometimes you can do well without many actions. Not playing many actions is just one of the basic solutions to only being able to play one per turn. There are other solutions though, and the main set has them: I can play lots of +1 action cards like Lab, I can play Village and more terminals, I can play Remodels and Remodel Remodel, I can go for Gardens and just live with lots of terminals.

Playing one action per turn is extremely simple and opens the door for making cards like Village and Spy (and less obviously, Remodel and Vault and Bank and Gardens).

[Witherweaver]

Supercollision makes sense because, in some cases, something good actually happens when they collide.  Like, Cultist.

[aladdinstardust]

I like soft terminals. So that's what my "something else" vote goes to.

[werothegreat]

Since it seems to now be mainly between two candidates, I've changed the poll.  Please vote again!

[Witherweaver]

Come on, guys, we all know that when you Remodel a Remodel you get a Higgs Boson.