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Author Topic: Furnace, a hungry card  (Read 2265 times)

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pacovf

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Furnace, a hungry card
« on: March 07, 2015, 11:03:24 am »
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A completely crazy (and wordy) idea that I don't really expect to work but that you might find inspiring/interesting.

Quote
Furnace
Types: Action
Cost: $5

Discard an Action card (or reveal a hand with no Action cards). If you did, +2 cards. If you drew 2 cards this way, play this again.

While this card is in play, you may not shuffle your Discard pile to form a new Deck.


EDIT: I've changed this a couple of times already because I have no idea about its powerlevel.

EDIT N: Even though it sort of looks like a mix between Town/Road and Village-of-Smithies/Logde right now, the original idea was to make "While this card is resolving, you may not shuffle your Discard pile to form a new Deck" work. True Story!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 11:35:17 am by pacovf »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 01:57:58 pm »
+1

I think the "easiest" way to do the no-shuffle thing is to just have a card that either puts your entire deck or your entire discard pile into your hand. I have no idea how to balance such a card.
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Asper

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 03:49:11 pm »
+1

Hmm... You could also set aside your discard pile on play (i think moving an entire pile should be okay, Chancellor does it). The hard part is getting it back. You could probably do an effect on leaving play (under a line), but i don't know whether that's really an improvement.
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pacovf

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 05:38:57 pm »
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Hmm... You could also set aside your discard pile on play (i think moving an entire pile should be okay, Chancellor does it). The hard part is getting it back. You could probably do an effect on leaving play (under a line), but i don't know whether that's really an improvement.

I think this leads to more rules confusion than the current version. Where do discarded cards go when you set aside the Discard pile? They can't go to your set aside Discard pile, so you would have to create a new Discard pile, right? Man, that's confusing.


I think the "easiest" way to do the no-shuffle thing is to just have a card that either puts your entire deck or your entire discard pile into your hand. I have no idea how to balance such a card.

Mmmm... there was an intermediate idea I had that could sort of work with that phrasing:

Quote
Mule
Types: Action
Cost: $4
The player to your left chooses one for you to do: +4 cards, or put your Deck in your hand.

It doesn't seem terribly interesting though. The penalty is easy to avoid.
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popsofctown

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 06:02:14 pm »
+2

5$ Furnace
Action
Play an Action Card from your hand as though it were a Furnace.  If you do, +2 cards, if you can't, reveal your hand.  It's a Furnace until it leaves play.
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pacovf

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 06:09:43 pm »
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Nice. The subtle difference between this version and the one in the OP is that the one in the OP doesn't force you to play ALL your action cards as furnaces (and also that it doesn't matter whether you draw it right after or right before a shuffle). If we want to change that, we get:

Quote
Furnace
Type: Action
Cost: 5$

+2 cards.
If you drew 2 cards this way, play an Action card from your hand as if it were a Furnace (or reveal a hand with no Action cards). It's a Furnace until it leaves play.

EDIT: actually, your version is very different, because it only transforms the Action cards you have in hand when you play the Furnace. This other version is more similar to the one in the OP, although it does draw 2 extra cards at first.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 06:17:40 pm by pacovf »
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popsofctown

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015, 06:25:47 pm »
+1

That's right.  I had "when you do" in my text originally, and then removed it because I couldn't remember why I needed it.   If I use "when you do", the Furnaces trigger their draw while other Furnaces are being played, out of order, to behave more like OP.  Although it's sloppy.
And yeah I was trying to avoid those 2 cards at the start, I think you want to avoid those for balance reasons, it seems like a strong card to me.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 06:27:00 pm by popsofctown »
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Asper

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 07:02:39 pm »
+1

Hmm... You could also set aside your discard pile on play (i think moving an entire pile should be okay, Chancellor does it). The hard part is getting it back. You could probably do an effect on leaving play (under a line), but i don't know whether that's really an improvement.

I think this leads to more rules confusion than the current version. Where do discarded cards go when you set aside the Discard pile? They can't go to your set aside Discard pile, so you would have to create a new Discard pile, right? Man, that's confusing.

Well, i didn't mean that the set-aside discard pile was still "the discard pile". Chancellor moving your deck in your discard pile doesn't mean you draw from your discard pile now (you kind of do after shuffeling, but you get what i mean - it's not like you take the top 3 cards from your discard when you play Smithy). Anyhow, the fact that you might set aside cards after playing Furnace simply eluded me.

Then again, you could simply set aside the discard pile first:

Quote
Furnace
Type: Action
Cost: 5$

Set aside your discard pile.
+2 cards.
If you drew 2 cards this way, play an Action card from your hand as if it were a Furnace (or reveal a hand with no Action cards). It's a Furnace until it leaves play. Put the cards you set aside with this in your discard pile at this turn's clean-up phase.


<My usual rambling about how to improve cards by using discarding>
Here's a shorter version:

Quote
Furnace
Type: Action
Cost: 5$
Set aside your discard pile.
+2 cards.
If you drew 2 cards this way, discard an action card (or reveal a hand with no action cards). If you did, play this again. Put the cards you set aside with this in your discard pile at this turn's clean-up phase.

And one that's even shorter, but doesn't stop eating your cards when the pile is empty:

Quote
Furnace
Type: Action
Cost: 5$
Discard an action card (or reveal a hand with no action cards) and set aside your discard pile. If you did both:
+2 cards and play this again. Put the cards you set aside this way in your discard pile at this turn's clean-up phase.

Edit: Wow, i posted three versions of your card... It's kind of like i'm trying to steal this thread for me, and a bit like i did with LF's Smithy-Village... Sorry. I'll tone this behaviour down in the future.  :-[
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 07:17:17 pm by Asper »
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pacovf

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Re: Furnace, a hungry card
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 07:49:52 pm »
+1

Don't apologize for posting other versions of the card! Quite the opposite!

I am not entirely sure if constantly setting aside cards is really that much better than preventing shuffles, but if you want to go that way, it's probably easier to just cut the Action discard and just set them aside from the beginning.

I think this card is more fun if it stops once it's drawn as much as it can, so that you can still possibly play action cards afterwards, so from your proposals, I think the second one is the best (just replace "discard" with "set aside", because in the end that's what you are doing).

The extra +2 cards is a bit problematic, but I don't think it can be avoided while still keeping the dynamic of the original card (keep chugging action cards non-stop until it draws your deck).
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