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Author Topic: small but useful tactics tips  (Read 12776 times)

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Titandrake

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2015, 08:24:09 pm »
+5

If you aren't going to shuffle your deck before the end of the game, buying anything that doesn't give VP is useless.

If you're only going to shuffle your deck once before the end of the game, whatever you buy needs to make up the VP you could have bought instead, and this is assuming you draw whatever you buy in the first place!

Fun log from around 2 days ago: http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150305/log.51395be9e4b006f8dc8cf78c.1425545634376.txt

I'm very behind because I don't have enough actions in my deck, but I manage to sneak out a win over my last 2 turns. On my 2nd-last turn, I get 2 Farming Villages from SM overpay. This costs me on a Duchy, but even though the game is very close to 3-piling, I desperately need the actions. I can also guarantee having them for next turn which makes it a no-brainer. On my last turn, I can abuse Stonemason and Hunting Grounds to pile out Estates - I know I have exactly 2 HG in my deck, which is 6 estates to gain, then account for Stonemason effect giving me either Estate if I need to pile or Duchy if I need to get VP. I have no intention of reshuffling my deck this turn - I lose long run so I win this turn or go bust. Luckily it works out despite minor misplay (I miss a chance to draw one extra card off my Watchtower, so I don't maximize my chances of drawing both HG.)

So for more specific tips from that game in particular: Stonemason is an incredible 3-pile enabler. Play cards that trash from hand before Watchtower if you have the +Actions. If your deck is worse, see if there's a way to end the game before it matters too much.
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GeoLib

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2015, 09:02:50 pm »
+3

One more - in limited circumstances, naming Duchy with your first few plays of Rebuild, and buying an Estate or two, is one stupid way to win the Duchy split. If you're having enough trouble hitting $5 to consider this, the Provinces will probably wait for you, so you can focus on getting the most Duchys first, ideally ending with no Estates at all.

This is sort of right, but you should check out this article: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2489.msg362854#msg362854 (note that it talks about rebuild mirrors only)
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crlundy

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2015, 01:05:18 am »
+1

I have Sage and Farming Village in my hand.  Which should I play first?

Is there a right answer?

Yes:

Depends on the contents of your draw pile.

A simpler case purely to highlight that it can matter: You topdeck a Province because of Spy/Bureaucrat. If you have Tournament/Explorer, you may want to play Sage first. Otherwise, you probably want to play Farming Village first.
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jaybeez

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2015, 03:41:27 pm »
+10

If you're playing on Goko (or MF or whatever), be sure to check the second page of cards before making your opening buys.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2015, 04:32:25 pm »
+2

There is a second page?
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Tombolo

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2015, 06:42:22 pm »
0

If you're playing on Goko (or MF or whatever), be sure to check the second page of cards before making your opening buys.

Also, check whether you have a token from Baker!
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eHalcyon

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2015, 06:46:17 pm »
0

There is a second page?

I will answer in case this is a real question.

The UI is only designed to display 10 cards, which means cards sometimes get put on the second page.  This is mainly a problem with Young Witch.
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Awaclus

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2015, 07:20:53 pm »
+2

If you're playing on Goko (or MF or whatever), be sure to check the second page of cards before making your opening buys.

Also, check whether you have a token from Baker!

And if you don't, make the "I'll use a coin token" joke.
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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2015, 07:24:43 pm »
+3

If you're thinking about opening Throne Room, just give yourself a good slap in the face, and then don't.

I was going to say the same about playing another Tournament after your opponent reveals a Province, but I was thinking of too many edge cases.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2015, 07:34:46 pm »
0

There is a second page?

I will answer in case this is a real question.

The UI is only designed to display 10 cards, which means cards sometimes get put on the second page.  This is mainly a problem with Young Witch.
Thanks for taking me seriously, it was indeed a real question.  It dawns on me that the situation would not have come up (for me). I have not given MF/Goko any money, so I have access only to the base set, and I've not played any real people yet, just the bots.
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Gherald

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2015, 11:41:19 pm »
+4

* SwitchedFromStarcraft is now known as DidnotSwitchFromIsotropic
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blueblimp

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2015, 04:02:24 am »
+2

I have Sage and Farming Village in my hand.  Which should I play first?

Is there a right answer?

Yes:

I have Sage and Farming Village in my hand.  Which should I play first?

Depends on the contents of your draw pile.
If you don't know anything about the order of your draw deck, AND if you're certain to play both cards before the next reshuffle (including scenarios where you draw some other card that you want to play first), then it doesn't matter which order you play them in, even considering the contents of your draw deck. Otherwise, it's situation-dependent, yes, but there are still rules of thumb.

If you know something about the order of your draw deck, it's usually that there's something on top, so prefer to play in a way that discards as much junk as possible. If you know that the top card of your deck is not junk, prefer to play the card that is the worse sifter for your deck composition.

If reshuffling is a possibility this turn, or if you might not want to play both cards in this turn, I think that Sage is slightly preferred to play first, unless that play would immediately trigger a bad reshuffle. Sage whiffs much more easily than Farming Village, so by playing it earlier, there is less chance to whiff. Also, Sage is more unpredictable in terms of how much in draws, so controlling your reshuffles should be more easily done once you've played out your Sages. If you know you will need the action from the Farming Village, well then you may want to play that first, so that you can comfortably skip playing the Sage (unlike the other scenario where you're sad about not playing the Farming Village).
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pubby

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2015, 06:55:29 pm »
+5

Play Ruined Village and Necropolis before discarding with Minion. That way you can't draw them again.
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Awaclus

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2015, 06:57:19 pm »
+2

Play Ruined Village and Necropolis before discarding with Minion. That way you can't draw them again.

Play Necropolis before discarding with Minion also because that way you'll get the +2 actions before you discard the card.
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liopoil

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2015, 07:39:19 pm »
+4

Don't discard coppers with plaza just before a shuffle that you are going to trigger mid-turn. This tip applies to many cards, actually.
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jomini

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2015, 01:04:54 am »
+2

Don't discard coppers with plaza just before a shuffle that you are going to trigger mid-turn. This tip applies to many cards, actually.

Ehh, one of the nice things about plaza is being able to serially abuse the same few coins for coin tokens. 1 coin token vs 1 card is not always on the card side. Sure often, it isn't, but if you have good odds of drawing through it anyways - take the coin and run.
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Burning Skull

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2015, 05:22:23 am »
+1

When you have X > 1 Minions in hand, and you want to discard with one of them and thus cause the reshuffle, consider not playing all the other X - 1 Minions for money.
Depending on the size of your discard pile it may be better to just discard some of them, so you can use them for draw later this turn.

pst

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2015, 06:52:07 am »
0

Most of time you should guess Silver in that situation though, because you want to get the Silver out of your next hand.
No. If silver is the most abundant card in your deck, it is there for a reason.

Ambassador?

I think Embassy is more likely.

Governor in a 4p game.
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Polk5440

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2015, 07:45:25 am »
0

When you have X > 1 Minions in hand, and you want to discard with one of them and thus cause the reshuffle, consider not playing all the other X - 1 Minions for money.
Depending on the size of your discard pile it may be better to just discard some of them, so you can use them for draw later this turn.

Also, when you have X > 0 Minions in hand, consider playing them all for money in order to not trigger a nasty reshuffle.
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LastFootnote

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2015, 08:23:13 am »
+8

Sometimes it's fine to trigger a bad reshuffle with Minion if your discard pile only has 4 or 5 junk cards in it; usually that hand will be Minioned away by your opponent.
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hvb

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2015, 07:12:59 am »
+2

Sometimes it's fine to trigger a bad reshuffle with Minion if your discard pile only has 4 or 5 junk cards in it; usually that hand will be Minioned away by your opponent.

I wouldn't rely on this against good and observant players.

On Topic. If you want one copy of a card (e.g. Woodcutter for 2nd buy) in your deck anyway, but its not the optimal way to buy it right now (e.g. because silver is now slightly superior to woodcutter), its often good not to buy it on the first occasion that occurs. Most of the time its more precise to buy that card later and optimize your chances of a good/fast deck now.

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Chris is me

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2015, 11:33:34 am »
+5

Biggest tactic tip I can think of is to not let the amount of money you have be the sole deciding factor in what card you get.

It's a big hang-up to get over, as people want to maximize their value, and you have the psychological sensation that since you get rid of all your money at the end of the turn, it's wasteful to not use it all. But sometimes you really do need to buy Bridge at $8.

For a really dramatic example, I was playing a Hunting Grounds / Bazaar / Pawn Colony game last night, and I had something like 20. I wanted Platinum to hit at least $25 every turn, but I also wanted an extra source of +Buy so I could get more than 2 cards, as I only had one Pawn. But I couldn't get myself to buy Pawn for $11, instead going for a single Colony, and that ended up costing me the game.
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lespeutere

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2015, 02:50:40 pm »
0

If you aren't going to shuffle your deck before the end of the game, buying anything that doesn't give VP is useless.

Except for
a) desired 3-pile-endings.
b) situations where you are behind and have a chance to get closer by playing goons/monuments or giving curses but risk a 3-pile-ending by buying VP (or game end when only provinces/colonies are left).

Might be even more, this is just what came to my mind immediately.
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eHalcyon

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2015, 07:22:09 pm »
+1

Biggest tactic tip I can think of is to not let the amount of money you have be the sole deciding factor in what card you get.

It's a big hang-up to get over, as people want to maximize their value, and you have the psychological sensation that since you get rid of all your money at the end of the turn, it's wasteful to not use it all. But sometimes you really do need to buy Bridge at $8.

For a really dramatic example, I was playing a Hunting Grounds / Bazaar / Pawn Colony game last night, and I had something like 20. I wanted Platinum to hit at least $25 every turn, but I also wanted an extra source of +Buy so I could get more than 2 cards, as I only had one Pawn. But I couldn't get myself to buy Pawn for $11, instead going for a single Colony, and that ended up costing me the game.

Here's the classic example by Stef.
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AdamH

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Re: small but useful tactics tips
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2015, 09:07:38 am »
+3

If you aren't going to shuffle your deck before the end of the game, buying anything that doesn't give VP is useless.

Except for
a) desired 3-pile-endings.
b) situations where you are behind and have a chance to get closer by playing goons/monuments or giving curses but risk a 3-pile-ending by buying VP (or game end when only provinces/colonies are left).

Might be even more, this is just what came to my mind immediately.

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