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Author Topic: A simple question.  (Read 20317 times)

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liopoil

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2015, 04:55:53 pm »
0

I stand by my estimate of 42. It wasn't just a stupid hitchhikers joke, it was serious.

Black Market needs to be banned, because you can just put baker in the BM deck or something. Also Haggler, as Adam brought up. Open haggler/lighthouse, hit $7 on turn 4. My current list, using the posts in this thread:

Vault, Death Cart, Chancellor, Scavenger, Baron, Develop, Poor House, Masterpiece, Baker, Secret Chamber, Storeroom, Farmland, Horse Traders, Stonemason, Cellar, Crossroads, Warehouse, Courtyard, Harvest, Mandarin, Fool's Gold, Black Market, Doctor, Menagerie, Nomad Camp, Inn, Forge, Expand, Watchtower, Salvager, Tunnel, Remodel, Remake, Upgrade, Graverobber, Procession, Butcher, Loan, Haggler, Sage.

We are already at 40, and I'm sure there are more. AdamH's 55 may be good.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 04:59:33 pm by liopoil »
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2015, 05:01:49 pm »
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I think only one of Inn/Upgrade needs to be banned, actually. Unless someone can find a way to do it with one that doesn't involve the other.
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DG

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2015, 05:14:41 pm »
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Squire and counterfeit look like they need listing. I don't think that hunting party/squire/counterfeit will be the only combo for them.
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ephesos

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2015, 05:56:08 pm »
+1

Noble Brigand needs banning if you have an opponent.
T1 Opponent buys NB, you flip 2 Estates and gain Copper.
T1 you buy Silver with 4 and draw 3 Copper, shuffle(5 Copper 3 Estates 1 Silver), draw Silver + Copper.
T2 Opponent does whatever.
T2 you buy Gold, drawing 4 Copper and Estate.
T3 Opponent buys second NB, you flip 2 Estates and gain Copper.
T3 you buy Silver, shuffle(9 Copper 3 Estates 2 Silver 1 Gold), draw 2 Silver, 1 Gold, 2 others
T4 you buy Grand Market.
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eHalcyon

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2015, 06:06:11 pm »
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Black Market needs to be banned, because you can just put baker in the BM deck or something.

Disagree.  Baker on its own already has to be banned, which presumably means that it can't be in the BM deck either.
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liopoil

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2015, 06:07:41 pm »
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Black Market needs to be banned, because you can just put baker in the BM deck or something.

Disagree.  Baker on its own already has to be banned, which presumably means that it can't be in the BM deck either.
How many different cards do you need to ban from the kingdom
The Black Market deck is not part of the kingdom.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2015, 06:17:35 pm »
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Somehow we did not mention Governor yet, which just needs any $4 card to work.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2015, 06:20:30 pm »
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Somehow we did not mention Governor yet, which just needs any $4 card to work.

I could have sworn that was on Stef's list. But I think that falls under the blanket remodel-variant ban.
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Donald X.

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2015, 06:37:47 pm »
+6

Vagrant / Highway, Altar on turn 3.
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eHalcyon

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2015, 06:43:34 pm »
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Black Market needs to be banned, because you can just put baker in the BM deck or something.

Disagree.  Baker on its own already has to be banned, which presumably means that it can't be in the BM deck either.
How many different cards do you need to ban from the kingdom
The Black Market deck is not part of the kingdom.

Bah, my bad. 
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Donald X.

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2015, 07:13:11 pm »
+6

Duchess / Stables, King's Court on turn 3.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2015, 07:48:26 pm »
+2

At this rate I'm pretty sure we're going to have to ban half the kingdom cards.
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Kirian

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2015, 07:50:35 pm »
+2

At this rate I'm pretty sure we're going to have to ban half the kingdom cards.

Also I think dghunter needs to change the thread title.  This is not nearly as simple as it was at first glance.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2015, 07:54:41 pm »
+2

Well, like many questions, the question is simple, the answer is quite complicated.
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TheOthin

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2015, 08:00:11 pm »
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Could there be anything to gain from looking at what we don't have to ban?
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DG

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2015, 09:09:10 pm »
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Throne room (or procession) with wishing well (or vagrant) and moneylender can get the grand market.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2015, 10:08:50 pm »
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Could there be anything to gain from looking at what we don't have to ban?

I can pretty confidently say that we don't have to ban Scout (anyone who can prove me wrong on this gets a million respect)
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liopoil

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2015, 10:43:21 pm »
+2

If we hadn't banned secret chamber we would have had to ban scout, among other things.
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heron

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2015, 11:05:14 pm »
+10

Perhaps the most thematic combo for getting a T3 Grand Market is Butcher, Baker, Candlestick Maker.
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ephesos

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2015, 12:47:07 am »
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In a similar vein to Noble Brigand, Masquerade, if you have a very helpful opponent.
T1+2 Opponent buys Masq Silver, you buy 2 Silver
T3 Opponent passes you Silver, you buy GM with 3 Silver
T4 You pay your opponent $20 in real money

Also Ambassador, with help from Quarry and Loan (and Scout)
T1+2 Opponent buys Ambassador Quarry, you buy Loan+Quarry, drawing 4 Copper and Loan
T3 Opponent gives you Quarry, you play Loan skipping 3 Estates and hitting Copper, trashing it, buying Scout, drawing 2 Copper, 2 Quarries, and Scout
T4 Opponent does whatever, you play Scout, drawing 3 Estates, play 2 Quarries and buy Grand Market.

Clearly, Scout needs to be banned. Drawing 3 Estates is just too good. :P

Technically, it works with just Loan+Quarry though
T1+2 Loan+Quarry
T3 4 Copper+Loan hits 3 Estates and Copper, trashing, buys Quarry, draws 2 Copper, 2 Quarries, and Loan
T4 play 2 Quarries and buy GM

Pure Ambassador doesn't work, since you will never be able to draw the Ambassadored card before T5. However, it probably combos with a lot of cards, since you can just gain a second copy of any <5 cost card on T3. Maybe something with Watchtower to get it on T3 e.g. Ambassador Quarry vs. Watchtower Quarry buys GM on T3.
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ephesos

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2015, 01:04:12 am »
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Also, Trade Route
T1+2 Opponent buys Estate+Duchy, you buy Trade Route+Trade Route
T3 Opponent buys Great Hall/Island/Tunnel/Feodum/Gardens/Silk Road/Duke
You play Necropolis+2 Trade Routes and buy GM
So, either we can ban the 7 VP cards costing less than 5, or we can ban Trade Route. Take your pick.

Actually, even the 6(and 7) cost VP cards are out
T1+2 Opponent buys Silver+Silver, you buy Trade Route+Trade Route
T3 Opponent buys Estate, you buy Duchy
T4 Opponent buys Fairgrounds/Farmland/Harem/Nobles, you play Necropolis+2 Trade Routes and buy GM

Also Vinyard, just have opponent buy Potion instead
And Rebuild
T1+2 Opponent buys Estate+Rebuild, you buy Trade Route+Trade Route
T3 Opponent plays Rebuild, skipping 3 Coppers and Necro and rebuilding Estate into Duchy
T4 Opponent plays Rebuild(drew it after shuffle), hitting Duchy(OE in hand), gaining Province. You play Necropolis+2 Trade Routes and buy GM

That's like 12 cards that combo with it, so it should probably get banned.
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ephesos

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2015, 01:15:09 am »
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Ambassador+Scout+Great Hall with 2 opponents
T1+2 Opponents open Silver+Ambassador. You open Scout+Great Hall
T3 Each opponent Ambassadors you Silver, you play Scout hitting 3 Estates and Great Hall, play 5 Coppers buying Silver, draw 2 Copper, shuffle, 3 Silver
T4 You buy GM with 3 Silver

Ambassador+Crossroads with 2 opponents
T1+2 One opponent opens Silver+Ambassador, another opens Crossroads+Ambassador, you open Crossroads+Silver
T3 Opponents Ambassador you Silver+Crossroads, you buy Silver with 5 Copper
T4 You play Crossroads with 3 Estates+Silver in hand, drawing 2 Copper+Crossroads. Play Crossroads again, drawing 2 Silver+Copper. Buy GM with 3 Silvers.
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Kirian

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2015, 01:32:15 am »
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Remember that this was originally stated as solitaire, Ephesos.  No help from other players!

Perhaps the most thematic combo for getting a T3 Grand Market is Butcher, Baker, Candlestick Maker.

This is truly brilliant... it took me a couple minutes to work it out, but that's awesome.
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enfynet

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2015, 02:22:21 am »
+4

First, we need to ban CelestialChameleon. I'm sure he'd manage T3 GM with only copper.
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pacovf

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Re: A simple question.
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2015, 05:03:35 am »
+1

Could there be anything to gain from looking at what we don't have to ban?

I can pretty confidently say that we don't have to ban Scout (anyone who can prove me wrong on this gets a million respect)

If we hadn't banned Remodel already, opening Scout/- can get you a T4 GM.
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