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Author Topic: Lack of quality posts  (Read 32882 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #75 on: April 02, 2015, 11:45:35 am »
+2

I sort of think it will go the other way.. like you see a post with a bunch of the top Dominion players in the world, and you think, man, I'm not going to post in there, I'm going to look stupid.  Maybe that's the purpose of this idea, but it also discourages participation.  Maybe it wasn't your intent to joke, maybe you just had a question, or a thought, but now you're going to censor yourself.
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AdamH

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #76 on: April 02, 2015, 11:48:05 am »
+1

EDIT: Also, I think it's perhaps misleading to say that derailment is responsible for the end of thoughtful discussion on a subject. If people have things they want to say, it's easy for them to say them and get the thread back on track. I think what you're seeing is threads that fill up with derailed comments because nobody has anything they want to write about the original topic. Getting rid of derailments won't necessarily keep actual discussion going longer.

For-suresies this is sometimes the case, but not always. It's important to realize that we can't realistically hope for everyone to be perfectly happy with a change we make here, but rather to improve the current situation.

I sort of think it will go the other way.. like you see a post with a bunch of the top Dominion players in the world, and you think, man, I'm not going to post in there, I'm going to look stupid.  Maybe that's the purpose of this idea, but it also discourages participation.  Maybe it wasn't your intent to joke, maybe you just had a question, or a thought, but now you're going to censor yourself.

There are dangers to going too far in either direction. I just think there's not much of an outlet for serious conversation, which means we're too far in one particular direction. Should we go all the way back to NO FUN ALLOWED EVAR? Of course not, that sounds awful.
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werothegreat

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #77 on: April 02, 2015, 11:48:18 am »
+1

Also, AdamH, if you're looking for serious/quality discussion, why not add your thoughts to the Card of the Week thread?  :)  Talisman beckons.
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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #78 on: April 02, 2015, 11:50:26 am »
+2

I think the nature of this community is that of sarcasm and dry humor. You can't [seriously] change that.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #79 on: April 02, 2015, 11:52:37 am »
0


There are dangers to going too far in either direction. I just think there's not much of an outlet for serious conversation, which means we're too far in one particular direction. Should we go all the way back to NO FUN ALLOWED EVAR? Of course not, that sounds awful.

Well, I just don't agree.  I think there is an outlet for serious conversation, and I see a lot of it.  Are there a large number of posters that feel their threads get derailed and don't get the discussions they were looking for?  (That's not rhetorical, I'm actually asking.)
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2015, 11:55:09 am »
+7

Well, I just don't agree.  I think there is an outlet for serious conversation, and I see a lot of it.  Are there a large number of posters that feel their threads get derailed and don't get the discussions they were looking for?  (That's not rhetorical, I'm actually asking.)

I tried to start a thread about how cool the color orange is and all anyone did was talk about this stupid new Dominion card.
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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2015, 11:56:50 am »
+1

Are there a large number of posters that feel their threads get derailed and don't get the discussions they were looking for?  (That's not rhetorical, I'm actually asking.)

Sure, I mean it's happened. It's no fun when you make the mistake of naming a fan card "Monopoly" and the thread gets filled with Hasbro jokes instead of useful feedback. But you've just got to take it in stride and realize that if your card were compelling, folks would be talking about it between the jokes.
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AdamH

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2015, 11:59:13 am »
0

Also, AdamH, if you're looking for serious/quality discussion, why not add your thoughts to the Card of the Week thread?  :)  Talisman beckons.

This may happen, though I really like to think through what I say very thoroughly before posting it here when it comes to Dominion advice. Especially when it doesn't quite jive with what really good people are saying.

Well, I just don't agree.  I think there is an outlet for serious conversation, and I see a lot of it.  Are there a large number of posters that feel their threads get derailed and don't get the discussions they were looking for?  (That's not rhetorical, I'm actually asking.)

This is a really good question, I'm tempted to make a poll to find out but I don't know if that's a good idea. Knowing the answer to this question would certainly help guide us to what our "happy medium" is.

I didn't notice this effect until recently when it happened to my own thread (go figure) but then I started seeing it elsewhere. I also know from my IRL group that the ones who feel how I do are the quieter ones who don't voice their opinions as much. This is a small sample size, of course; I could very well be wrong, but evidence would help.

It's a hard question to answer, and then once you have the answer you don't know if it's right or not.  :-\
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ehunt

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2015, 12:13:57 pm »
+2

A few things:

1. I have noticed a rise in a sort of pseudo-badassness, wherein people who are very good at Dominion leave a comment that's undoubtedly insightful, but short, cryptic, and flippant. I really dislike this, I find it both rude and unhelpful to the game. One nice thing about the new card reveals is that there's less of this (presumably since no one knows the cards that well). (OK OK, I just upvoted a comment in the Talisman thread saying "Talisman sucks" but I mean come on, it's Talisman.)

2. I don't think Scout jokes are funny, but I doubt that's keeping people away from the forums. Same with Mine/Mint, moat, etc. In fact is it even true that we have a retention problem? Lots of new faces around here.

3. Generally when you're posting an edge-case, you don't feel like it's an edge-case, even when most people would disagree with you; I would not like to see that banned from even a proposed "serious" forum (an idea which I am not that into). There's also extreme edge-cases listed as more or less jokes; that can be a little annoying, but sometimes funny and in any event very skippable.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2015, 12:23:13 pm »
+6

1. I have noticed a rise in a sort of pseudo-badassness, wherein people who are very good at Dominion leave a comment that's undoubtedly insightful, but short, cryptic, and flippant. I really dislike this, I find it both rude and unhelpful to the game. One nice thing about the new card reveals is that there's less of this (presumably since no one knows the cards that well). (OK OK, I just upvoted a comment in the Talisman thread saying "Talisman sucks" but I mean come on, it's Talisman.)

I know some people don't like these, but a short statement is often the best way to convey an idea. These statements might be flippant, but they are usually far away from cryptic. The most confusing posts in the world to me are ones with lots of explanation and/or equivocation. It's worth considering that some posters/readers value brevity. Some people value lots of extra text. I don't think it's such a terrible thing for people to write in a way that they would prefer posts be written. Whether that's long/short/jokey/dismissive or whatever.
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sudgy

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2015, 12:30:27 pm »
+3

I think jokes are great. I think running gags (Scout jokes, Mint/Mine, Moat?) are the real problem.

I really don't think it's a problem. Is it so hard to just pass over them?

Also, if we ban Mint/Mine jokes, what will become of Sudgy?!

Hey, I now only make them if I think they're clever!

(Whether they are or not though is up for debate.)


Anyway, the reason [Serious] didn't work last time we tried it was that it was put on a thread that was not serious whatsoever, Random Stuff.  It could maybe work.

I think a better idea would be if the OP of a thread said "Let's keep this on topic, please" in the OP and/or when the discussion gets out of hand.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

werothegreat

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2015, 12:32:32 pm »
0

I think jokes are great. I think running gags (Scout jokes, Mint/Mine, Moat?) are the real problem.

I really don't think it's a problem. Is it so hard to just pass over them?

Also, if we ban Mint/Mine jokes, what will become of Sudgy?!

Hey, I now only make them if I think they're clever!

(Whether they are or not though is up for debate.)


Anyway, the reason [Serious] didn't work last time we tried it was that it was put on a thread that was not serious whatsoever, Random Stuff.  It could maybe work.

I think a better idea would be if the OP of a thread said "Let's keep this on topic, please" in the OP and/or when the discussion gets out of hand.

I'll just post a picture of a cat-'o-nine-tails and nudge my eyebrow at it significantly.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2015, 12:33:53 pm »
0

1. I have noticed a rise in a sort of pseudo-badassness, wherein people who are very good at Dominion leave a comment that's undoubtedly insightful, but short, cryptic, and flippant. I really dislike this, I find it both rude and unhelpful to the game. One nice thing about the new card reveals is that there's less of this (presumably since no one knows the cards that well). (OK OK, I just upvoted a comment in the Talisman thread saying "Talisman sucks" but I mean come on, it's Talisman.)

I know some people don't like these, but a short statement is often the best way to convey an idea. These statements might be flippant, but they are usually far away from cryptic. The most confusing posts in the world to me are ones with lots of explanation and/or equivocation. It's worth considering that some posters/readers value brevity. Some people value lots of extra text. I don't think it's such a terrible thing for people to write in a way that they would prefer posts be written. Whether that's long/short/jokey/dismissive or whatever.

I agree with this, and actually you could argue that some meaning is conveyed in the brevity.  For example, the post that gave rise to the describe-a-card-in-ten-words thing. (Was it WanderingWinder's?)  It can be a way of saying, "Look, this is the important fundamental thing."
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Witherweaver

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #88 on: April 02, 2015, 12:34:35 pm »
+1

I think jokes are great. I think running gags (Scout jokes, Mint/Mine, Moat?) are the real problem.

I really don't think it's a problem. Is it so hard to just pass over them?

Also, if we ban Mint/Mine jokes, what will become of Sudgy?!

Hey, I now only make them if I think they're clever!

(Whether they are or not though is up for debate.)


Anyway, the reason [Serious] didn't work last time we tried it was that it was put on a thread that was not serious whatsoever, Random Stuff.  It could maybe work.

I think a better idea would be if the OP of a thread said "Let's keep this on topic, please" in the OP and/or when the discussion gets out of hand.

I'll just post a picture of a cat-'o-nine-tails and nudge my eyebrow at it significantly.

Fry meme: Not sure if wants me to get on topic... or wants to do BDSM stuff with me.
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Donald X.

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #89 on: April 02, 2015, 12:36:29 pm »
+7

I tried to start a thread about how cool the color orange is and all anyone did was talk about this stupid new Dominion card.
Just use the [orange] tag. Then people can't talk about other colors.
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sudgy

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2015, 12:39:25 pm »
+2

I tried to start a thread about how cool the color orange is and all anyone did was talk about this stupid new Dominion card.
Just use the [orange] tag. Then people can't talk about other colors.


...and a joke!

Anyway, I just realized that another big problem is that some people go here for the community, and not for the dominion discussion.  I think I go on here more for the community and jokes, just with a spice of dominion on the side.  What it is right now is great for that, but it does make it harder for the people who come here for dominion strategy.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Witherweaver

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2015, 12:42:00 pm »
+3

Some people come here for the forum games.  Have you checked them out?
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enfynet

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #92 on: April 02, 2015, 12:46:56 pm »
0

Active discussions may lack in continuity or quality of on-topic posts, but the forums as a whole certainly do not. Half of these jokes come from often repeated comments about actual Dominion-related topics. (i.e. Scout)
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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #93 on: April 02, 2015, 12:53:46 pm »
+2

I made a Scout joke in that card combos thread, but at least it was a good and original one. What's tiresome are the endless repetitions of the same old joke, like the "explaining the joke makes it funnier" joke, and the Moat thing.

But I don't see a dire lack of outlet for serious Dominion discussion, and - although maybe a subforum or tagging convention could be OK - I don't see a need for any systemic change. I think if you say, at the start of your thread, something like: "Please post only real things. Feel free to use humor in your writing, but no content-free joke posts, please", people will respect it.
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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #94 on: April 02, 2015, 01:20:13 pm »
+7

3. Generally when you're posting an edge-case, you don't feel like it's an edge-case, even when most people would disagree with you; I would not like to see that banned from even a proposed "serious" forum (an idea which I am not that into). There's also extreme edge-cases listed as more or less jokes; that can be a little annoying, but sometimes funny and in any event very skippable.

Edge-casings are the worst offenses of everything mentioned so far and I absolutely loathe them. Whatever sustained motivation I may otherwise have had to write more substantial contributions is killed by knowing that a legion of asshats would be lining up to release their convoluted concoctions.

I'm not talking about people offering valid criticism or having genuine misconceptions about how the game works, but comments where the commenter knows full well that I sacrificed rigor for the sake of brevity yet can't help himself but exploit this opportunity to score debating points or otherwise put himself in the spotlight. The difference is very easy to spot.

I've combated it to some extent by utilizing a highly hyperbolic style that makes exceptions so obvious that you'd feel foolish rather than clever for pointing them out, but it comes at the cost of depth and nuance.

At the end of the day I'm happy just posting stuff this forum makes me feel like posting (witticisms, insightful snark, comical slights at Goko (whose very existence is a case of self-parody)) and reserve the rest for my streams, but I do sometimes regret that the atmosphere isn't conducive to more in-depth discussion.

As for a solution: what about giving a thread starter the ability to delete (but not edit) any and all posts from his threads. That way people can decide for themselves how much nonsense they're willing to put up with, and you can just chose to not participate in threads whose starter tolerates stupid derailings.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #95 on: April 02, 2015, 01:23:02 pm »
+3

As for a solution: what about giving a thread starter the ability to delete (but not edit) any and all posts from his threads. That way people can decide for themselves how much nonsense they're willing to put up with, and you can just chose to not participate in threads whose starter tolerates stupid derailings.

I could see this leading to arguments.
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ehunt

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #96 on: April 02, 2015, 01:25:03 pm »
0

3. Generally when you're posting an edge-case, you don't feel like it's an edge-case, even when most people would disagree with you; I would not like to see that banned from even a proposed "serious" forum (an idea which I am not that into). There's also extreme edge-cases listed as more or less jokes; that can be a little annoying, but sometimes funny and in any event very skippable.

I'm not talking about people offering valid criticism or having genuine misconceptions about how the game works, but comments where the commenter knows full well that I sacrificed rigor for the sake of brevity yet can't help himself but exploit this opportunity to score debating points or otherwise put himself in the spotlight. The difference is very easy to spot.

Yeah, I am going to backpedal, the second of these two things is in fact really frustrating on this forum.
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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #97 on: April 02, 2015, 01:26:35 pm »
+1

1. I have noticed a rise in a sort of pseudo-badassness, wherein people who are very good at Dominion leave a comment that's undoubtedly insightful, but short, cryptic, and flippant. I really dislike this, I find it both rude and unhelpful to the game. One nice thing about the new card reveals is that there's less of this (presumably since no one knows the cards that well). (OK OK, I just upvoted a comment in the Talisman thread saying "Talisman sucks" but I mean come on, it's Talisman.)

I know some people don't like these, but a short statement is often the best way to convey an idea. These statements might be flippant, but they are usually far away from cryptic. The most confusing posts in the world to me are ones with lots of explanation and/or equivocation. It's worth considering that some posters/readers value brevity. Some people value lots of extra text. I don't think it's such a terrible thing for people to write in a way that they would prefer posts be written. Whether that's long/short/jokey/dismissive or whatever.

I agree with this, and actually you could argue that some meaning is conveyed in the brevity.  For example, the post that gave rise to the describe-a-card-in-ten-words thing. (Was it WanderingWinder's?)  It can be a way of saying, "Look, this is the important fundamental thing."

It was Stef's

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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #98 on: April 02, 2015, 01:29:57 pm »
+1

1. I have noticed a rise in a sort of pseudo-badassness, wherein people who are very good at Dominion leave a comment that's undoubtedly insightful, but short, cryptic, and flippant. I really dislike this, I find it both rude and unhelpful to the game. One nice thing about the new card reveals is that there's less of this (presumably since no one knows the cards that well). (OK OK, I just upvoted a comment in the Talisman thread saying "Talisman sucks" but I mean come on, it's Talisman.)

I know some people don't like these, but a short statement is often the best way to convey an idea. These statements might be flippant, but they are usually far away from cryptic. The most confusing posts in the world to me are ones with lots of explanation and/or equivocation. It's worth considering that some posters/readers value brevity. Some people value lots of extra text. I don't think it's such a terrible thing for people to write in a way that they would prefer posts be written. Whether that's long/short/jokey/dismissive or whatever.

Got it. Definitely don't think brevity is bad. Brief flippancy in particular gets under my skin (it reminds me of the dialogue of the movie Inception.)
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Re: Lack of quality posts
« Reply #99 on: April 02, 2015, 01:32:13 pm »
+2

Learning for the first time that people don't think scout jokes are funny anymore :/ I guess that makes sense, considering some of you have been hearing them for a half decade. There is so much to learn when you are new to a community.
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