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Author Topic: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight  (Read 37883 times)

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markusin

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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2015, 09:56:55 am »
+2

The release date is mentioned on the Announcements tab.

Some ... interesting ... comments there too.

My big worry is that the log is still in a pop-up window, and Salvager will no longer work after the rewrite.
You guys are scaring away all the new fans. Well actually, reading through the comments pretty much every negative comment appears to be coming from people who have played the current online version. They've experienced the badness of the old design.

New people must be so confused when they read about Salvager.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2015, 10:00:44 am »
0

I mean, I wasn't expecting a graphical update, really.  I was expecting mainly technical fixes - stability, friending, matchmaking, kingdom building, etc.  And I actually don't mind the look, though I have no idea where they're going to put something!.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2015, 10:02:09 am »
+6

The release date is mentioned on the Announcements tab.

Some ... interesting ... comments there too.

My big worry is that the log is still in a pop-up window, and Salvager will no longer work after the rewrite.
You guys are scaring away all the new fans. Well actually, reading through the comments pretty much every negative comment appears to be coming from people who have played the current online version. They've experienced the badness of the old design.

New people must be so confused when they read about Salvager.

If it scares new players away, then good, maybe MF will get the hint and fix some of those problems.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2015, 10:03:00 am »
+1

Also, it looks like they *have* implemented the card stacking thing from Salvager (the screen with the Prizes).  I really hope it's an option.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2015, 10:07:15 am »
0

Also, it looks like they *have* implemented the card stacking thing from Salvager (the screen with the Prizes).  I really hope it's an option.

good catch there. Hopefully, that is an option. And, hopefully, just hopefully, they allow an option to have the log on the side at all times
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2015, 10:13:15 am »
0

This all says very little to me. My biggest concerns by far are stability and matchmaking. This potentially looks, well, very bad, because it looks the same. But it is very little to go on.

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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2015, 10:36:52 am »
+4

Are you freaking kidding me?

I seem to remember hearing from MF that we'd get a game log that didn't require you to open a window to see it. Maybe I was mistaken.

If I can't see a game log while I'm playing without opening up a window, this product is now worse than the current version (because at least Salvager can do that on the current version).

Unbelievable. I'm livid right now.

Seriously, I'm going to stop playing Dominion Online if I can't see a game log while I play. I want to play Adventures online so bad, I want to stream it, I want to gush over the cards I like and rage on the one or two that I don't while the internet is listening to me. But it's not worth playing if I can't see what's going on. It's not worth streaming if the viewers can't see what's going on.

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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2015, 10:38:59 am »
0

Eww! No! No! No! I just realized the screen shots are of the new version they are working on. They have pretty new graphics, but it seems none of the things that salvager fixes are actually fixed in the new version. Please tell me this isn't true.  :'(

I don't want pretty graphics dammit. Pretty graphics do not make a game great.
I was wondering why they'd use screenshots of the old version...
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2015, 10:42:12 am »
0

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world. 

User was warned for this post.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 11:42:29 am by theory »
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2015, 10:49:12 am »
+1

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world. 

I personally only care about the previous turn's worth of logs, so that I can (1) turn animations off and (2) be able to tab out when my opponent is slow.

Then again, I actually can't remember the last time I played Dominion on MF/Goko.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2015, 10:54:57 am »
+4

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.

I sympathize with this point of view, and I do pay attention (I play with animations on Normal speed; thank goodness for Salvager speeding up gains). But my memory isn't great (for e.g. Smugglers), and sometimes I do miss something. When that happens, it is a chore to use Goko's log. I have to click a button to open it (a keyboard shortcut would be nice), it blocks the screen, and it's too small to show longer turns. But the absolute worst part is that the scroll bar is broken. When I use it, it doesn't "un-stick" from my mouse. I can't get it to stay in one place. It makes the damn thing nigh-useless.

That's why I'm complaining about not having the side log. GET IT!?
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2015, 10:59:01 am »
+12

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.

We care about it because it's idiotic to have it the other way? It's not like we're too stupid to pay attention or click a button, but the product should work hard to give the players all relevant game information at all times so that the player doesn't have to do extra stuff. It's just basic commonsense design. Why can't we see the number of cards left in each players deck, the number of coin tokens, and all the actions/buys/etc stuff at the same time? Why can't we see all the supply piles in the game at once? Because the people involved in this product are incompetent.

And as Adam mentioned the log makes Dominion way more streamable (and it's barely streamable just by it's very nature!).

It doesn't make any sense for a computer version not to have a visible log, it's just way easier and more user friendly. The monitors aren't running out of space.

Unlike others though I'm not angry, it's too funny to be mad.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2015, 11:00:43 am »
+1

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST [...] PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.

I explained in this thread why it's a big deal to have a log visible at all times: BTW, I don't know how much it will help but if a lot of people go there and voice their opinions, maybe we'll be heard?

http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?5794-New-Version

It boils down to this: people viewing videos or streams can't be expected to follow all of the animations 100% of the time. They don't get to click the button to show the Ruins pile or the Game Log or the 11th Kingdom card for YW whenever they want, so many times they're just out of luck.

Also, the game log as currently implemented covers the Actions/Buys/Coins display, which updates live during the opponent's turn. I can't see that and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time, so I'm out of luck if I missed how much money they had to spend on their turn or how many actions or buys they had. I need to know how many Goons they can play on their turn, and without a visible game log it's much more complicated than typing the F-word in all capital letters.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2015, 11:04:46 am »
+2

Also, the game log as currently implemented covers the Actions/Buys/Coins display, which updates live during the opponent's turn. I can't see that and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time, so I'm out of luck if I missed how much money they had to spend on their turn or how many actions or buys they had. I need to know how many Goons they can play on their turn, and without a visible game log it's much more complicated than typing the F-word in all capital letters.

Dude, what speed do you have the animations on when you stream? If it's Fast or Very Fast, then you are a very big part of the reason your viewers can't tell what's going on. If you're expecting spectators, why would you make the game so hard to follow?
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2015, 11:06:31 am »
0

1. You are probably reaching too many conclusions from a couple of screenshots from who-knows-when, especially given that the final version is not yet done.

2. If you have any specific gripes with what you see, you could try getting in touch with the devs, rather than raging here.

PPE 7 or something.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2015, 11:08:26 am »
+6

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.
Yeah, why do the cards even have any text on them? You could just google what they do. It's not that hard.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2015, 11:10:26 am »
0

Also, the game log as currently implemented covers the Actions/Buys/Coins display, which updates live during the opponent's turn. I can't see that and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time, so I'm out of luck if I missed how much money they had to spend on their turn or how many actions or buys they had. I need to know how many Goons they can play on their turn, and without a visible game log it's much more complicated than typing the F-word in all capital letters.

Dude, what speed do you have the animations on when you stream? If it's Fast or Very Fast, then you are a very big part of the reason your viewers can't tell what's going on. If you're expecting spectators, why would you make the game so hard to follow?

I use Fast. Almost every other stream I've watched uses Very Fast.

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic. What you said doesn't negate any of my points. Viewers can't be expected to see every animation, no matter how slow, they want to be able to see the state of the game at any point. I've also never had anyone tell me, ever, that they want me to slow down my animations, but have had several people ask me why I don't play on Very Fast.

Dominion Online has a lot of obstacles for being a game you can follow easily on a stream, I'd like to think I've done my best to overcome as many of them as I can.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2015, 11:13:22 am »
+1

Just to weigh in on what Adam said, when I watch streams I'm usually multitasking and not watching the game most of the time, so it's nice to be able to read the on-screen log.  Granted, streaming is not the most important issue with all this, but it's something to add to the pile.

I'm tired of being angry, so now I'm just here for the comments.

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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2015, 11:14:46 am »
+2

I use Fast. Almost every other stream I've watched uses Very Fast.

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic. What you said doesn't negate any of my points. Viewers can't be expected to see every animation, no matter how slow, they want to be able to see the state of the game at any point. I've also never had anyone tell me, ever, that they want me to slow down my animations, but have had several people ask me why I don't play on Very Fast.

Dominion Online has a lot of obstacles for being a game you can follow easily on a stream, I'd like to think I've done my best to overcome as many of them as I can.

Well, I'm not being sarcastic, but I am completely ignorant concerning the streaming community. From my point of view, your statement "I can't see [their Action/Buy/Coin total] and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time" is ridiculous because, if you played on a slower speed, you could see what was going on without needing the log at all. Is it super great to have the sidelog for easy review? Absolutely! But to complain that you can't see what's going on in the game without a log? That's on you, man.
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2015, 11:15:40 am »
+8

People need to calm way, way down on all sides here. There's no point in yelling obscenities at each other. No point in yelling at all, really.

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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2015, 11:16:12 am »
+18

People need to calm way, way down on all sides here. There's no point in yelling obscenities at each other. No point in yelling at all, really.

NONSENSE!!!
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2015, 11:32:05 am »
0

I am going to, for now, hold out hope that this is just a case of "casual players don't want to see the log" and assume there will be a user preference to show it.

One of the most important aspects of the log is for streams and recordings.  Missing things when you are watching the game is inevitable.  I've been watching a lot of WWs old videos recently and, fortunately with recordings, I can just back it up and see what happened, but it would be more convenient if the log was just there.  With a live stream, if you miss something, it is just gone, which is frustrating.

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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2015, 11:34:27 am »
0

Just to weigh in on what Adam said, when I watch streams I'm usually multitasking and not watching the game most of the time, so it's nice to be able to read the on-screen log.  Granted, streaming is not the most important issue with all this, but it's something to add to the pile.
Completely agree with this, I frequently watch streams and do something else on the internet. So, the log and point counter are really useful. Also, I think the new version ought to have a point counter, since lots of people want it (it was the main reason I installed Salvager for instance).
As someone who only plays on laptop, I guess I'm concerned that the new version is going to be worse, as Salvager features aren't being added to the new version. If you're using another device, then sure it's going to be loads better.

PPE:1
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2015, 11:53:44 am »
+1

My apologies for yelling.  It's just, without the log, you're essentially playing IRL Dominion, just with auto-shuffling.  Did you have trouble keeping track of things when you played Dominion with real cards?
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Re: Dominion Online on Steam Greenlight
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2015, 11:58:04 am »
+8

My apologies for yelling.  It's just, without the log, you're essentially playing IRL Dominion, just with auto-shuffling.  Did you have trouble keeping track of things when you played Dominion with real cards?

I ask my opponent how much money/buys they had or what they gained on their turn or what they did if I didn't catch it. Online I can't expect people to answer me honestly, or at all.
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