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[GeoLib]

So... This is interesting:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=398496969

[jsh357]

Well, if I made it, they can too.  As much as it may seem pointless, a lot of people only buy games on Steam, so it would probably boost sales (not to mention they could get on sales).

[werothegreat]

Well, if I made it, they can too.  As much as it may seem pointless, a lot of people only buy games on Steam, so it would probably boost sales (not to mention they could get on sales).

You have a game on steam?

[jsh357]

Well, if I made it, they can too.  As much as it may seem pointless, a lot of people only buy games on Steam, so it would probably boost sales (not to mention they could get on sales).

You have a game on steam?

Greenlit, yes.  I have not put it up, but will when I finish it. 

I need a pixel artist if anyone knows one who'd work for cheap.

[jaketheyak]

The promised launch date of Spring 2015 for the new Unity version is the most interesting part of that.

[Beyond Awesome]

The promised launch date of Spring 2015 for the new Unity version is the most interesting part of that.

Where does it say that? I read they expect to have adventures ready for spring/summer

[qmech]

The release date is mentioned on the Announcements tab.

Some ... interesting ... comments there too.

My big worry is that the log is still in a pop-up window, and Salvager will no longer work after the rewrite.

[Beyond Awesome]

Eww! No! No! No! I just realized the screen shots are of the new version they are working on. They have pretty new graphics, but it seems none of the things that salvager fixes are actually fixed in the new version. Please tell me this isn't true. 

I don't want pretty graphics dammit. Pretty graphics do not make a game great.

EDIT:
On the bright side, this exposure will mean a lot more people exposed to Dominion, but shit, it seems like our salvager features might not make it through when they said they wanted to incorporate those features.

EDIT 2:
Why is it companies that have a paid staff can't put in the simplest of features and yet forum members working from spare parts on their own time manage to create things like Salvager and iso? Something is seriously wrong with this world.

[SCSN]

So in exchange for Salvager we get...

1. A multi-colored log:



2. Magical trails of fairy dust following the played cards in their wake:



I can't wait!

[Burning Skull]

Does that blue sparkling always come when you buy a Contraband?

[Beyond Awesome]

Man, I thought MF was going to make an all-new version. This looks like Goko just with more junk. Seriously, they spent almost a year and a bunch of money for what?

[assemble_me]

So in exchange for Salvager we get...
[...]
I can't wait!

You didn't mention, we also still have this awesome double paged kingdom layout!

[Burning Skull]

Man, I thought MF was going to make an all-new version. This looks like Goko just with more junk. Seriously, they spent almost a year and a bunch of money for what?

If they eliminate all lagging and lobby issues and leave compatibility with Salvager, it's gonna be good enough to stop asking for more, for me at least.

[qmech]

2. Magical trails of fairy dust following the played cards in their wake:

That's not fairy dust: that's what the carrier particles for Buys look like.

Man, I thought MF was going to make an all-new version. This looks like Goko just with more junk. Seriously, they spent almost a year and a bunch of money for what?

If they eliminate all lagging and lobby issues and leave compatibility with Salvager, it's gonna be good enough to stop asking for more, for me at least.

I think Salvager is too much to hope for, as it's no longer written in JavaScript.

[Beyond Awesome]

Man, I thought MF was going to make an all-new version. This looks like Goko just with more junk. Seriously, they spent almost a year and a bunch of money for what?

If they eliminate all lagging and lobby issues and leave compatibility with Salvager, it's gonna be good enough to stop asking for more, for me at least.

Salvager is not compatible with unity

[blueblimp]

No screenshot of the new lobby, so we can still hope for improvement there. Even with Salvager's improvements to match-making (which are great relative to the default), the current match-making is still pretty unreliable. It's the main reason I don't play much Dominion these days.

On the other hand, if they retain the current lobby sans Salvager features, it'll be basically unplayable as far as I'm concerned.

[jsh357]

Oh boy.  Well, I guess this could explain why it took so long to hear details.  Probably didn't want to disappoint people.

I find the game near unplayable without the side log... and I really hope the chat box doesn't still pop up, but now I'm worried.

And just saying, the multiple page thing is going to get very annoying when drop tables is in the kingdom.

[LastFootnote]

I am super pissed that e.g. Ruins are still on another page. Goddammit!

[jsh357]

I guess the one thing we can hope for is that the stability problems are fixed?  Maybe it's too much to hope for.  I hope not.

[LastFootnote]

Why is the Steam Greenlight page now entirely in German? Is anybody else seeing this?

[LastFootnote]

I guess the one thing we can hope for is that the stability problems are fixed?  Maybe it's too much to hope for.  I hope not.

The stability fixes are not worth all that we lose with Salvager, at least not for me.

[jsh357]

Why is the Steam Greenlight page now entirely in German? Is anybody else seeing this?

Steam has a tendency to change your language options on you in the browser version.  You can change it back in the top right corner somewhere.  I was Spanish for years until I found it.

[Joseph2302]

I wrote a post to Making Fun about it, so hopefully they'll reply in a week or so. This new version does look worse at the moment.

[Moneymodel]

This really does look like a missed opportunity. I wonder, though, what that flag is at the bottom, with the settings, log and chat.

[Moneymodel]

In "Debug Mode", it replaces the kingdom-viewing option?

And look at those avatars. Just...zoom in and look at them. Those eyes.

[markusin]

The release date is mentioned on the Announcements tab.

Some ... interesting ... comments there too.

My big worry is that the log is still in a pop-up window, and Salvager will no longer work after the rewrite.

You guys are scaring away all the new fans. Well actually, reading through the comments pretty much every negative comment appears to be coming from people who have played the current online version. They've experienced the badness of the old design.

New people must be so confused when they read about Salvager.

[werothegreat]

I mean, I wasn't expecting a graphical update, really.  I was expecting mainly technical fixes - stability, friending, matchmaking, kingdom building, etc.  And I actually don't mind the look, though I have no idea where they're going to put something!.

[jsh357]

The release date is mentioned on the Announcements tab.

Some ... interesting ... comments there too.

My big worry is that the log is still in a pop-up window, and Salvager will no longer work after the rewrite.

You guys are scaring away all the new fans. Well actually, reading through the comments pretty much every negative comment appears to be coming from people who have played the current online version. They've experienced the badness of the old design.

New people must be so confused when they read about Salvager.

If it scares new players away, then good, maybe MF will get the hint and fix some of those problems.

[werothegreat]

Also, it looks like they *have* implemented the card stacking thing from Salvager (the screen with the Prizes).  I really hope it's an option.

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, it looks like they *have* implemented the card stacking thing from Salvager (the screen with the Prizes).  I really hope it's an option.

good catch there. Hopefully, that is an option. And, hopefully, just hopefully, they allow an option to have the log on the side at all times

[WanderingWinder]

This all says very little to me. My biggest concerns by far are stability and matchmaking. This potentially looks, well, very bad, because it looks the same. But it is very little to go on.

[AdamH]

Are you freaking kidding me?

I seem to remember hearing from MF that we'd get a game log that didn't require you to open a window to see it. Maybe I was mistaken.

If I can't see a game log while I'm playing without opening up a window, this product is now worse than the current version (because at least Salvager can do that on the current version).

Unbelievable. I'm livid right now.

Seriously, I'm going to stop playing Dominion Online if I can't see a game log while I play. I want to play Adventures online so bad, I want to stream it, I want to gush over the cards I like and rage on the one or two that I don't while the internet is listening to me. But it's not worth playing if I can't see what's going on. It's not worth streaming if the viewers can't see what's going on.

HEADDESK

[Watno]

Eww! No! No! No! I just realized the screen shots are of the new version they are working on. They have pretty new graphics, but it seems none of the things that salvager fixes are actually fixed in the new version. Please tell me this isn't true. 

I don't want pretty graphics dammit. Pretty graphics do not make a game great.

I was wondering why they'd use screenshots of the old version...

[werothegreat]

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world. 

User was warned for this post.

[Kirian]

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world. 

I personally only care about the previous turn's worth of logs, so that I can (1) turn animations off and (2) be able to tab out when my opponent is slow.

Then again, I actually can't remember the last time I played Dominion on MF/Goko.

[LastFootnote]

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.

I sympathize with this point of view, and I do pay attention (I play with animations on Normal speed; thank goodness for Salvager speeding up gains). But my memory isn't great (for e.g. Smugglers), and sometimes I do miss something. When that happens, it is a chore to use Goko's log. I have to click a button to open it (a keyboard shortcut would be nice), it blocks the screen, and it's too small to show longer turns. But the absolute worst part is that the scroll bar is broken. When I use it, it doesn't "un-stick" from my mouse. I can't get it to stay in one place. It makes the damn thing nigh-useless.

That's why I'm complaining about not having the side log. GET IT!?

[Mic Qsenoch]

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.

We care about it because it's idiotic to have it the other way? It's not like we're too stupid to pay attention or click a button, but the product should work hard to give the players all relevant game information at all times so that the player doesn't have to do extra stuff. It's just basic commonsense design. Why can't we see the number of cards left in each players deck, the number of coin tokens, and all the actions/buys/etc stuff at the same time? Why can't we see all the supply piles in the game at once? Because the people involved in this product are incompetent.

And as Adam mentioned the log makes Dominion way more streamable (and it's barely streamable just by it's very nature!).

It doesn't make any sense for a computer version not to have a visible log, it's just way easier and more user friendly. The monitors aren't running out of space.

Unlike others though I'm not angry, it's too funny to be mad.

[AdamH]

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST [...] PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.

I explained in this thread why it's a big deal to have a log visible at all times: BTW, I don't know how much it will help but if a lot of people go there and voice their opinions, maybe we'll be heard?

http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?5794-New-Version

It boils down to this: people viewing videos or streams can't be expected to follow all of the animations 100% of the time. They don't get to click the button to show the Ruins pile or the Game Log or the 11th Kingdom card for YW whenever they want, so many times they're just out of luck.

Also, the game log as currently implemented covers the Actions/Buys/Coins display, which updates live during the opponent's turn. I can't see that and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time, so I'm out of luck if I missed how much money they had to spend on their turn or how many actions or buys they had. I need to know how many Goons they can play on their turn, and without a visible game log it's much more complicated than typing the F-word in all capital letters.

[LastFootnote]

Also, the game log as currently implemented covers the Actions/Buys/Coins display, which updates live during the opponent's turn. I can't see that and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time, so I'm out of luck if I missed how much money they had to spend on their turn or how many actions or buys they had. I need to know how many Goons they can play on their turn, and without a visible game log it's much more complicated than typing the F-word in all capital letters.

Dude, what speed do you have the animations on when you stream? If it's Fast or Very Fast, then you are a very big part of the reason your viewers can't tell what's going on. If you're expecting spectators, why would you make the game so hard to follow?

[pacovf]

1. You are probably reaching too many conclusions from a couple of screenshots from who-knows-when, especially given that the final version is not yet done.

2. If you have any specific gripes with what you see, you could try getting in touch with the devs, rather than raging here.

PPE 7 or something.

[Watno]

I really didn't see why you people care so much about the log.  JUST FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.  It's not that hard.  And if you miss something, or want to check something, clicking a button is not the end of the world.

Yeah, why do the cards even have any text on them? You could just google what they do. It's not that hard.

[AdamH]

Also, the game log as currently implemented covers the Actions/Buys/Coins display, which updates live during the opponent's turn. I can't see that and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time, so I'm out of luck if I missed how much money they had to spend on their turn or how many actions or buys they had. I need to know how many Goons they can play on their turn, and without a visible game log it's much more complicated than typing the F-word in all capital letters.

Dude, what speed do you have the animations on when you stream? If it's Fast or Very Fast, then you are a very big part of the reason your viewers can't tell what's going on. If you're expecting spectators, why would you make the game so hard to follow?

I use Fast. Almost every other stream I've watched uses Very Fast.

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic. What you said doesn't negate any of my points. Viewers can't be expected to see every animation, no matter how slow, they want to be able to see the state of the game at any point. I've also never had anyone tell me, ever, that they want me to slow down my animations, but have had several people ask me why I don't play on Very Fast.

Dominion Online has a lot of obstacles for being a game you can follow easily on a stream, I'd like to think I've done my best to overcome as many of them as I can.

[jsh357]

Just to weigh in on what Adam said, when I watch streams I'm usually multitasking and not watching the game most of the time, so it's nice to be able to read the on-screen log.  Granted, streaming is not the most important issue with all this, but it's something to add to the pile.

I'm tired of being angry, so now I'm just here for the comments.

[LastFootnote]

I use Fast. Almost every other stream I've watched uses Very Fast.

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic. What you said doesn't negate any of my points. Viewers can't be expected to see every animation, no matter how slow, they want to be able to see the state of the game at any point. I've also never had anyone tell me, ever, that they want me to slow down my animations, but have had several people ask me why I don't play on Very Fast.

Dominion Online has a lot of obstacles for being a game you can follow easily on a stream, I'd like to think I've done my best to overcome as many of them as I can.

Well, I'm not being sarcastic, but I am completely ignorant concerning the streaming community. From my point of view, your statement "I can't see [their Action/Buy/Coin total] and read the game log to see what they're doing at the same time" is ridiculous because, if you played on a slower speed, you could see what was going on without needing the log at all. Is it super great to have the sidelog for easy review? Absolutely! But to complain that you can't see what's going on in the game without a log? That's on you, man.

[WanderingWinder]

People need to calm way, way down on all sides here. There's no point in yelling obscenities at each other. No point in yelling at all, really.

[pacovf]

People need to calm way, way down on all sides here. There's no point in yelling obscenities at each other. No point in yelling at all, really.

NONSENSE!!!

[Deadlock39]

I am going to, for now, hold out hope that this is just a case of "casual players don't want to see the log" and assume there will be a user preference to show it.

One of the most important aspects of the log is for streams and recordings.  Missing things when you are watching the game is inevitable.  I've been watching a lot of WWs old videos recently and, fortunately with recordings, I can just back it up and see what happened, but it would be more convenient if the log was just there.  With a live stream, if you miss something, it is just gone, which is frustrating.

[Joseph2302]

Just to weigh in on what Adam said, when I watch streams I'm usually multitasking and not watching the game most of the time, so it's nice to be able to read the on-screen log.  Granted, streaming is not the most important issue with all this, but it's something to add to the pile.

Completely agree with this, I frequently watch streams and do something else on the internet. So, the log and point counter are really useful. Also, I think the new version ought to have a point counter, since lots of people want it (it was the main reason I installed Salvager for instance).
As someone who only plays on laptop, I guess I'm concerned that the new version is going to be worse, as Salvager features aren't being added to the new version. If you're using another device, then sure it's going to be loads better.

PPE:1

[werothegreat]

My apologies for yelling.  It's just, without the log, you're essentially playing IRL Dominion, just with auto-shuffling.  Did you have trouble keeping track of things when you played Dominion with real cards?

[AdamH]

My apologies for yelling.  It's just, without the log, you're essentially playing IRL Dominion, just with auto-shuffling.  Did you have trouble keeping track of things when you played Dominion with real cards?

I ask my opponent how much money/buys they had or what they gained on their turn or what they did if I didn't catch it. Online I can't expect people to answer me honestly, or at all.

[werothegreat]

... it is a chore to use Goko's log. I have to click a button to open it (a keyboard shortcut would be nice), it blocks the screen, and it's too small to show longer turns. But the absolute worst part is that the scroll bar is broken. When I use it, it doesn't "un-stick" from my mouse. I can't get it to stay in one place. It makes the damn thing nigh-useless.

That's why I'm complaining about not having the side log. GET IT!?

Okay, yes.  The scroll bar is pretty stupid.  I guess what I'm saying is I'm not opposed to the *idea* of a clickable log, as long as it's implemented correctly.

[Watno]

Did you have trouble shuffling cards when you played Dominion with real cards?
There is no reason to transfer inconveniences to an online implementation.

[Kirian]

Did you have trouble shuffling cards when you played Dominion with real cards?
There is no reason to transfer inconveniences to an online implementation.

That's just what online Dominion needs:  click, hold, and shake your mouse back and forth for 20 seconds to simulate shuffling!

[LastFootnote]

Okay, yes.  The scroll bar is pretty stupid.  I guess what I'm saying is I'm not opposed to the *idea* of a clickable log, as long as it's implemented correctly.

The silly bit is that the scroll bars in the lobby work with a mouse's scroll wheel, which is a fine workaround. The scroll wheel doesn't work in the log popup, and the scroll bar itself is busted!

[TheOthin]

When they've been taking and dismissing complaints for so long with the promise of an upcoming new version, they should immediately have stuff to show from the new version to demonstrate actual interface upgrades to make it worthwhile both for the wait and exchange for Salvager, not just some fancy visual effects.

This is a problem of atrocious customer service.

[werothegreat]

Posted on their Facebook page:

"There will be a new Unity-based game for browser play that has several changes (we believe improvements) from the version that is live today. That same new version will be what gets released on tablets, Steam (assuming the Greenlight is successful), and phones as we integrate the various platform APIs and change the interface to accommodate smaller screens. We wouldn't call it a "carbon copy", as each platform has its differences, but it will be as similar as it can be while making adjustments necessary for the different platforms."

[Joseph2302]

From the steam chat:

@awaclus, we will have many Salvager features implemented in the new version. @LastFootnote, @jsh357 - try not to be haters, give us a chance, one we get the new version live then we can focus on improving it. We have a log list of player feedback and, like the Salvager features, many items are being addressed in the initial launch. Right now we are trying to run and improve a game we didn't create while completely rebuilding it from the ground up. Not an easy task.

[Watno]

give us a chance, one we get the new version live then we can focus on improving it.

Why not make it good in the first place?

Also, it's highly suspicious that they don't tell us which salvager features will be implemented.

[LastFootnote]

I'm tired of being angry, so now I'm just here for the comments.

Something's changed about you, jsh. I can't put my finger on it, but suddenly I don't feel I can trust you.

This is a joke about his avatar.

[pacovf]

I'm tired of being angry, so now I'm just here for the comments.

Something's changed about you, jsh. I can't put my finger on it, but suddenly I don't feel I can trust you.

This is a joke about his avatar.

...Great minds think alike?

[Witherweaver]

give us a chance, one we get the new version live then we can focus on improving it.

Why not make it good in the first place?

Also, it's highly suspicious that they don't tell us which salvager features will be implemented.

They probably implemented some old bugs that Salvager has had during its run.

[Ozle]

Haha, looks awful, you'll all still play though!

[Witherweaver]

LastFootnote, part of why it has taken so long is we really TRIED to improve the existing game. We closed > 100 bugs on the live version. We didn't want to start over. But eventually we had to make that tough decision. All you are voting for here is do you want to see a NEW version of Dominion come to Steam. The screenshots are a combination of work-in-progress and the live version (for the benefit of people who haven't seen it). Our main goal is to get the existing functionality live as a starting position. And not have to reboot the servers every week. We are a few months from shipping the game still. Please give us your 'up' vote here and reserve judgement once you see the new game. After all, it will still be a free download to get the entire base set of Dominion, which is a heck of a deal.

Wait.... we have to buy all the cards again?!

Edit: Or maybe I'm just not sure what he means by that last part.

[LastFootnote]

Wait.... we have to buy all the cards again?!

Don't jump to conclusions. I doubt that will be the case.

[Witherweaver]

Wait.... we have to buy all the cards again?!

Don't jump to conclusions. I doubt that will be the case.

What else am I supposed to do with this mat?

[Joseph2302]

LastFootnote, part of why it has taken so long is we really TRIED to improve the existing game. We closed > 100 bugs on the live version. We didn't want to start over. But eventually we had to make that tough decision. All you are voting for here is do you want to see a NEW version of Dominion come to Steam. The screenshots are a combination of work-in-progress and the live version (for the benefit of people who haven't seen it). Our main goal is to get the existing functionality live as a starting position. And not have to reboot the servers every week. We are a few months from shipping the game still. Please give us your 'up' vote here and reserve judgement once you see the new game. After all, it will still be a free download to get the entire base set of Dominion, which is a heck of a deal.

Wait.... we have to buy all the cards again?!

Edit: Or maybe I'm just not sure what he means by that last part.

I'm pretty sure the answer's no, and I read it somewhere. I just need to find that somewhere again...

EDIT: Q on Facebook: " If this gets running, I'm assuming our purchases will carry over?"
A from Dominion Online: "Yes"

[LastFootnote]

I wish they'd started selling fancy Base Cards a while ago. That's easy money, I would think.

[Witherweaver]

I guess I was confused because he was talking specifically to an existing player there, who (maybe) has already paid. 

[LastFootnote]

I guess I was confused because he was talking specifically to an existing player there, who (maybe) has already paid.

I think he was just saying, "Hey, you should support this being on Steam because it's a good deal for people". To which my response was, "Fix the longstanding usability issues and I will change my vote from "No" to "Yes".

[Watno]

Please give us your 'up' vote here and reserve judgement once you see the new game

Am i fundamentally missunderstanding the idea of Steam Greenlight or are they?

[Minotaur]

Hmmm.  One person made a really barebones version that worked well and was free.  Someone else made a blingy-bling-bling version where you can't even start a game with another person without having your email open in another tab.  The latter is the reason that the former had to be shut down.  And now they want our blessings on Greenlight in... good faith that as far as we know they might fix the stupid interface crap when they get around to it maybe.

Hell, if they threw in a flawless Isotropic emulator with full online functionality, I'd upvote that.  Your bling has no power here.

Offline Goko is better than nothing and all that, but whatever.

[Minotaur]

Please give us your 'up' vote here and reserve judgement once you see the new game

Am i fundamentally missunderstanding the idea of Steam Greenlight or are they?

Hashtag Fry meme.

[Minotaur]

Did you have trouble shuffling cards when you played Dominion with real cards?
There is no reason to transfer inconveniences to an online implementation.

That's just what online Dominion needs:  click, hold, and shake your mouse back and forth for 20 seconds to simulate shuffling!

I'm quoting this just so people can go back and upvote it some more.

If they had a "click here to punch Blingy McCorporate Game Designer in the face" button, like a modern spin-off on the "kill Barney the dinosaur" pages of the dial-up era, I would be all over that.

[Ozle]

Please give us your 'up' vote here and reserve judgement once you see the new game

Am i fundamentally missunderstanding the idea of Steam Greenlight or are they?

As a cynical shameless marketing ploy?

[jsh357]

I guess to be fair to them, it's useful to get greenlit prior to finishing a game anyway (the greenlighting never expires) but from our perspective here it's not a 100% 'yes' since we know there are still problems with the game.

[Witherweaver]

Also, why is it not called Steamlighting? :/

[jsh357]

Also, why is it not called Steamlighting? :/

You should e-mail GabeN and ask.  He responds to all questions that aren't about HL3.

[Minotaur]

I will Greenlight it, but they have to agree to my payment collection scheme.

Each completed order is represented on their screen as a dollar bill.  They have to choose whether to collect or refund it by dragging the dollar bill into the "revenue" stack or the "refund" stack.  The stacks are right next to each other, and there is no "collect all as revenue" button.

[Witherweaver]

I will Greenlight it, but they have to agree to my payment collection scheme.

Each completed order is represented on their screen as a dollar bill.  They have to choose whether to collect or refund it by dragging the dollar bill into the "revenue" stack or the "refund" stack.  The stacks are right next to each other, and there is no "collect all as revenue" button.

Also, once you drag to a stack, you have to go to the second window, wherein you can open up a popup window that allows you to confirm the drop.  The drop is not finalized until confirmed, and each confirmation must take place before the next drag can proceed.  Also, drops cannot be undone after, or before, confirming.

[Awaclus]

I will Greenlight it, but they have to agree to my payment collection scheme.

Each completed order is represented on their screen as a dollar bill.  They have to choose whether to collect or refund it by dragging the dollar bill into the "revenue" stack or the "refund" stack.  The stacks are right next to each other, and there is no "collect all as revenue" button.

There is a "refund all" button though.

[Minotaur]

I will Greenlight it, but they have to agree to my payment collection scheme.

Each completed order is represented on their screen as a dollar bill.  They have to choose whether to collect or refund it by dragging the dollar bill into the "revenue" stack or the "refund" stack.  The stacks are right next to each other, and there is no "collect all as revenue" button.

Also, once you drag to a stack, you have to go to the second window, wherein you can open up a popup window that allows you to confirm the drop.  The drop is not finalized until confirmed, and each confirmation must take place before the next drag can proceed.  Also, drops cannot be undone after, or before, confirming.

Also, the program keeps losing their login and it starts playing the Goko Dominion theme each time they renew it.

[Minotaur]

Did I mention that the dollar bills are 3x as big as the collection stack, so it's hard to pinpoint where exactly things are going?

[SCSN]

Can someone enlighten me as to what greenlighting on Steam actually means? I'm completely unfamiliar with Steam and the only vague impression I have of it is that of an elaborate licensing server to counter PC piracy.

If I have no interest in playing Dominion on Steam and my position is "first make sure the web version properly works before you even spend a second thinking about any other platform" (not as a general design philosophy, but in this specific instance), shouldn't I prefer them to get shown the brightest red light imaginable?

[LastFootnote]

Can someone enlighten me as to what greenlighting on Steam actually means?

Basically, if enough people vote for it, the game with be sold/available on Steam. I'm not sure exactly what that means for a free-to-play game that has a web interface other than free publicity.

[jsh357]

Can someone enlighten me as to what greenlighting on Steam actually means? I'm completely unfamiliar with Steam and the only vague impression I have of it is that of an elaborate licensing server to counter PC piracy.

If I have no interest in playing Dominion on Steam and my position is "first make sure the web version properly works before you even spend a second thinking about any other platform" (not as a general design philosophy, but in this specific instance), shouldn't I prefer them to get shown the brightest red light imaginable?

Steam is the primary platform most core gamers play PC games on.  Greenlight is a system that indie developers apply to to try and get their games on Steam, or just to advertise by asking people to greenlight it.  You put the game up, Steam users vote on whether it looks cool or not, then if it's accepted, you become a Steamworks developer who can upload whatever games you make to Steam.

(For the record it took me about 3 years to get accepted but it should be much easier for a company with a userbase ready to go)

This doesn't matter so much to you directly if you have no plans on playing using Steam, but it's extremely important for an indie developer to try and get on Steam as it improves visibility, especially if your game gets sold on the big sales Steam has a few times a year, which are pretty big hype factories in various gaming communities. If they get on, expect the number of users to rise.

[LastFootnote]

Steam is the primary platform most core gamers play PC games on.  Greenlight is a system that indie developers apply to to try and get their games on Steam, or just to advertise by asking people to greenlight it.  You put the game up, Steam users vote on whether it looks cool or not, then if it's accepted, you become a Steamworks developer who can upload whatever games you make to Steam.

But MakingFun appears to already have a game on Steam: BloodRealm.

[jsh357]

Steam is the primary platform most core gamers play PC games on.  Greenlight is a system that indie developers apply to to try and get their games on Steam, or just to advertise by asking people to greenlight it.  You put the game up, Steam users vote on whether it looks cool or not, then if it's accepted, you become a Steamworks developer who can upload whatever games you make to Steam.

But MakingFun appears to already have a game on Steam: BloodRealm.

If they have, then I'm confused cause after I got greenlit it basically said I was a Steam developer now and could post other games in the future.  Perhaps I'm mistaken.

[GendoIkari]

Man, I thought MF was going to make an all-new version. This looks like Goko just with more junk. Seriously, they spent almost a year and a bunch of money for what?

Yeah I'm confused/disappointed too... I thought "new version" meant brand new; completely unrelated to what currently exists in Goko. I didn't think the look and feel would be the same at all.

[LastFootnote]

Man, I thought MF was going to make an all-new version. This looks like Goko just with more junk. Seriously, they spent almost a year and a bunch of money for what?

Yeah I'm confused/disappointed too... I thought "new version" meant brand new; completely unrelated to what currently exists in Goko. I didn't think the look and feel would be the same at all.

I'm not disappointed that it looks mostly the same; I like the Goko interface other than the log and chat. Mostly I'm pissed that they didn't fit Ruins and the Bane onto the main page (in case I haven't complained enough about that already).

[Voltaire]

Mostly I'm pissed that they didn't fit Ruins and the Bane onto the main page (in case I haven't complained enough about that already).

It's absurd, it really is.

[Donald X.]

My apologies for yelling.  It's just, without the log, you're essentially playing IRL Dominion, just with auto-shuffling.  Did you have trouble keeping track of things when you played Dominion with real cards?

Speaking as someone who has played both IRL and online, like, a lot, I find them to be noticeably different. Online goes much faster and has much less social interaction. Both of those things make the log more relevant than it would be IRL.

[Witherweaver]

Playing with physical cards makes it a lot easier to keep track of things.  Like, shuffles, and in turn deck tracking. 

[Witherweaver]

Mostly I'm pissed that they didn't fit Ruins and the Bane onto the main page (in case I haven't complained enough about that already).

It's absurd, it really is.

Comin' out of retirement to drop some truth.

[Voltaire]

It's not retirement so much as lurking.

Wait, is it lurking if I post about lurking? Crap.

[GendoIkari]

My apologies for yelling.  It's just, without the log, you're essentially playing IRL Dominion, just with auto-shuffling.  Did you have trouble keeping track of things when you played Dominion with real cards?

Here's the thing... IRL Dominion is simply a different experience, and always will be, than online Dominion. In IRL Dominion, you are sitting with people, interacting with them, talking with them. Sure there's a chat function but that's not the same. 3 big differences:

1. Generally when I play in IRL, people tend to narrate their turns, or at least the important stuff. They'll say "I'll buy a Duchy" as they're grabbing one. When they play a Nobles, they'll say "Nobles for the actions". This gives a lot more than some flashy animation.

2. No matter how slow the animations are, they aren't going to have the same presence as someone reaching their hand out to the middle of the table and picking up a card. And often they get another player to hand them the card they want to buy when it's not easy to reach.

3. Even IRL, sometimes someone takes a really fast turn while I was looking at my own hand, and I didn't see what happened. So I'll say "what did you just buy?" And they'll tell me. That's a lot easier than opening up a log and looking for the thing that was last bought. Or using chat to ask what was just bought (and maybe getting a response, maybe not).

So while it would be nice in theory if online Dominion could imitate IRL Dominion as much as possible; it simply doesn't work that way. Just like how forum Mafia is quite different than IRL Mafia. Same basic game, same rules, etc; but a different play experience.

[GendoIkari]

Well the good news here is that if the new version is disappointing enough, then maybe more people will switch over to playing Temporum online. 

[blueblimp]

I'm kinda sad that the transition to Unity means that we'll probably never again have a deck tracker a la drheld's extension. I know it isn't universally popular, but for me it was one of the key parts that made isotropic+extension fun. It'd be possible to do it with the current site, although there'd be issues to work out with the UI and match-making, and match-making is iffy enough as-is.

[eHalcyon]

My apologies for yelling.  It's just, without the log, you're essentially playing IRL Dominion, just with auto-shuffling.  Did you have trouble keeping track of things when you played Dominion with real cards?

Here's the thing... IRL Dominion is simply a different experience, and always will be, than online Dominion. In IRL Dominion, you are sitting with people, interacting with them, talking with them. Sure there's a chat function but that's not the same. 3 big differences:

1. Generally when I play in IRL, people tend to narrate their turns, or at least the important stuff. They'll say "I'll buy a Duchy" as they're grabbing one. When they play a Nobles, they'll say "Nobles for the actions". This gives a lot more than some flashy animation.

2. No matter how slow the animations are, they aren't going to have the same presence as someone reaching their hand out to the middle of the table and picking up a card. And often they get another player to hand them the card they want to buy when it's not easy to reach.

3. Even IRL, sometimes someone takes a really fast turn while I was looking at my own hand, and I didn't see what happened. So I'll say "what did you just buy?" And they'll tell me. That's a lot easier than opening up a log and looking for the thing that was last bought. Or using chat to ask what was just bought (and maybe getting a response, maybe not).

So while it would be nice in theory if online Dominion could imitate IRL Dominion as much as possible; it simply doesn't work that way. Just like how forum Mafia is quite different than IRL Mafia. Same basic game, same rules, etc; but a different play experience.

So what you're saying is...

1. They need to develop narration instead of a viewable written log.

2. They need to animate a life-size hand reaching around the interface.

3. The EULA needs a clause making it a bannable offense to ignore chat questions or lie when answering them.

I don't know if any of these should be prioritized over the manual shuffling feature though.

[Titandrake]

So...why are people arguing about whether online Dominion needs a log?

The log's already here, they're certainly not going to remove it to better approximate IRL Dominion or whatever. The more relevant point is that it's so inconvenient to use the log while playing the game, which somewhat ruins the point of having it in the first place.

If your argument is that there isn't enough screen space for the log, I think Salvager disproves that for desktop.

[AHoppy]

Personally, I'd be in favor of going back to the isotropic method, if they are concerned about screen real-estate or whatnot, which is the "log" only shows the turns played since your last turn.  This more accurately would simulate IRL Dominion where you can ask a question about what someone bought etc.  I don't have a problem with the full log, but if they want to avoid scrolling as much as possible or taking up screen space, then that could be an option.

[GendoIkari]

So...why are people arguing about whether online Dominion needs a log?

They aren't; they're arguing about how accessible the log needs to be.

[Minotaur]

Psychologically, I feel like we're wired to easily process Dominion on the IRL server much more fluidly.  Simulating it on the computer is either too cumbersome with the wait times all fake-feeling and in the wrong places, or too flipping fast.  The only downside of the fast version is that it takes a good log to catch everything.  Sure, a log with a bad interface is still usable, but I could play Dominion in real life using just my left hand, too (including shuffling), and I haven't been pushing for that to become a rule or anything...

[Witherweaver]

Psychologically, I feel like we're wired to easily process Dominion on the IRL server much more fluidly.  Simulating it on the computer is either too cumbersome with the wait times all fake-feeling and in the wrong places, or too flipping fast.  The only downside of the fast version is that it takes a good log to catch everything.  Sure, a log with a bad interface is still usable, but I could play Dominion in real life using just my left hand, too (including shuffling), and I haven't been pushing for that to become a rule or anything...

Strictly Worse Than Province
$8 Victory
6VP
---------------
When you gain, discard, or trash this card, you may only use your left hand to move it.

[Minotaur]

Psychologically, I feel like we're wired to easily process Dominion on the IRL server much more fluidly.  Simulating it on the computer is either too cumbersome with the wait times all fake-feeling and in the wrong places, or too flipping fast.  The only downside of the fast version is that it takes a good log to catch everything.  Sure, a log with a bad interface is still usable, but I could play Dominion in real life using just my left hand, too (including shuffling), and I haven't been pushing for that to become a rule or anything...

Strictly Worse Than Province
$8 Victory
6VP
---------------
When you gain, discard, or trash this card, you may only use your left hand to move it.

Strictly Better Than Goko
50 USD, Action

You may sacrifice a goat.  If you do, you may play on Isotropic.

[Beyond Awesome]

Man, I thought MF was going to make an all-new version. This looks like Goko just with more junk. Seriously, they spent almost a year and a bunch of money for what?

Yeah I'm confused/disappointed too... I thought "new version" meant brand new; completely unrelated to what currently exists in Goko. I didn't think the look and feel would be the same at all.

I'm not disappointed that it looks mostly the same; I like the Goko interface other than the log and chat. Mostly I'm pissed that they didn't fit Ruins and the Bane onto the main page (in case I haven't complained enough about that already).

Nope you have not complained enough. I hate how ruins are on a separate page. It makes it harder to track runs and sometimes you need to actually buy ruined market

[Titandrake]

In response to a comment about matchmaking, Making Fun has said,

"Fresnel, one of the launch features of the 2.0 version will be a completely new multiplayer matching system where players "seek" opponents based on criteria rather than a physical table model. "

It's a start...

[WanderingWinder]

In response to a comment about matchmaking, Making Fun has said,

"Fresnel, one of the launch features of the 2.0 version will be a completely new multiplayer matching system where players "seek" opponents based on criteria rather than a physical table model. "

It's a start...

Depending on what the 'criteria' are, it's exactly what I want.

[Ozle]

In response to a comment about matchmaking, Making Fun has said,

"Fresnel, one of the launch features of the 2.0 version will be a completely new multiplayer matching system where players "seek" opponents based on criteria rather than a physical table model. "

It's a start...

Depending on what the 'criteria' are, it's exactly what I want.

It's shoe size....

[Beyond Awesome]

lol. Have you guys seen that the video they have on streamlight to promote the video is the one that Total Biscuit made

[Watno]

That's really funny because he says it's still in Beta, even though it wasn't at the point he made the video.

[Witherweaver]

In response to a comment about matchmaking, Making Fun has said,

"Fresnel, one of the launch features of the 2.0 version will be a completely new multiplayer matching system where players "seek" opponents based on criteria rather than a physical table model. "

It's a start...

Depending on what the 'criteria' are, it's exactly what I want.

It's shoe size....

That is exactly what he wants.

[Deadlock39]

I hate playing against opponents that have smaller feet than I do.

[Witherweaver]

I hate playing against opponents that have smaller feet than I do.

I've only ever met I think two people that have larger feet than I do.

[HiveMindEmulator]

In response to a comment about matchmaking, Making Fun has said,

"Fresnel, one of the launch features of the 2.0 version will be a completely new multiplayer matching system where players "seek" opponents based on criteria rather than a physical table model. "

It's a start...

Depending on what the 'criteria' are, it's exactly what I want.

It's shoe size....

The criteria is that you're sitting at the same table...

[maduka]

i wouldent mind haveing this on steam or as a standalone game that i dident have to use a browser for.. but.. what happens to my user.. .. do i keep my old user.. and all the cards i bought for it.. or do i start fresh..

[qmech]

i wouldent mind haveing this on steam or as a standalone game that i dident have to use a browser for.. but.. what happens to my user.. .. do i keep my old user.. and all the cards i bought for it.. or do i start fresh..

You keep everything.  Thing of it as a carbon copy of the current system, because that's roughly what it is.

[GreyICE]

So they went from a web program to a standalone install?

What's next, for their update they mail me a CD?  Do I get version 3 on floppy disk?

[Gherald]

[Watno]

I just wanted to greenlight this after MF explaining what they're actually doing, but it turns out it has already been accepted.

[steric]

I just wanted to greenlight this after MF explaining what they're actually doing, but it turns out it has already been accepted.

Will Dominion Online in-fact be on Steam in 2017? Geeze it certainly makes smart business sense. Opens up it to the world of gaming.