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Author Topic: Transmute > Cultist  (Read 2910 times)

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chwhite

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Transmute > Cultist
« on: February 20, 2015, 05:23:09 pm »
+3

Hi all.  It's been forever.  But I played a game two days ago with my GF that was sufficiently memorable that I just had to come back and share.  Forgive me if I'm not completely up to speed on the lingo and code here.

Cards:
$P: Transmute
$2: Herbalist, Pearl Diver, Lighthouse
$3: Village
$4: Scavenger, Silk Road
$5: Cultist, Pillage, Outpost

So, I don't know if the online community has moved beyond thinking this, but Cultist is supposed to be pretty damn good, right?  Especially with the only "trashing" here being the notoriously awful Transmute?  And, of course, Transmute being the only potion card making it even more awful?

Opening silver/potion, instead of just going for the Cultist-BM obvious play would be madness, right?  Well, that's exactly what I did.  Silver/potion, then a Scavenger at the next opportunity, followed by Villages and an Herbalist instead of a Lighthouse.  Meanwhile, the Ruins start rolling in.

Of course, by the second reshuffle, $4 hands (which is about as high as this deck ever gets) are going straight to Silk Roads, the Transmute is either turning Copper into more Transmutes, or Ruins into Duchies, and the idea of ever getting a Province is laughable.  Buying Estates becomes my idea of a good turn.  My opponent, to her credit, is paying attention and making sure I don't run roughshod over the Silk Roads: the pile runs out first with a 4-4 split.  She is of course also buying Cultists, and money, and Provinces, as seems like the obvious thing to do. 

What she does not get, though, is much in the way of Duchies.  Eventually the game ends with a three-pile of Silk Roads, Duchies, and Ruins.  The game ends with me Transmuting a Transmute into a Duchy, and buying an Estate.  And, then, the final tally:

Me: 7 Duchies, 4 Silk Roads, 7 Estates, for 44 points
Opponent: 3 Provinces, 4 Silk Roads, 1 Duchy, 6 Estates, for 39 points

The power of Transmute strikes again!
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liopoil

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Re: Transmute > Cultist
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2015, 05:30:50 pm »
+2

I'm not sold on it. If your opponent doesn't contest the silk roads and goes for a big engine, I think they will probably win.
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chwhite

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Re: Transmute > Cultist
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2015, 05:46:36 pm »
0

I'm not sold on it. If your opponent doesn't contest the silk roads and goes for a big engine, I think they will probably win.

Given how close the Estates were to running out, too... I'm not so sure about that.

That's not to say that either of us necessarily played perfectly– I'm sure neither of us did, in fact– but I'm pretty skeptical that the hardcore engine approach would actually beat a Silk Road-focused slog here.
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liopoil

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Re: Transmute > Cultist
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 06:07:03 pm »
0

I'm not sold on it. If your opponent doesn't contest the silk roads and goes for a big engine, I think they will probably win.

Given how close the Estates were to running out, too... I'm not so sure about that.

That's not to say that either of us necessarily played perfectly– I'm sure neither of us did, in fact– but I'm pretty skeptical that the hardcore engine approach would actually beat a Silk Road-focused slog here.
You will have a lot of trouble ending the game in time, and the engine has double turn potential with outpost. It's tough without trashing, but it can be done. Meanwhile you have the entire silk road stack to get through, and hitting $4 won't be easy. The estates were only low because your GF got three of them.

The engine won't win every time necessarily, but I'd bet it's over half the time.
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chwhite

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Re: Transmute > Cultist
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 06:12:09 pm »
0

I'm not sold on it. If your opponent doesn't contest the silk roads and goes for a big engine, I think they will probably win.

Given how close the Estates were to running out, too... I'm not so sure about that.

That's not to say that either of us necessarily played perfectly– I'm sure neither of us did, in fact– but I'm pretty skeptical that the hardcore engine approach would actually beat a Silk Road-focused slog here.
You will have a lot of trouble ending the game in time, and the engine has double turn potential with outpost. It's tough without trashing, but it can be done. Meanwhile you have the entire silk road stack to get through, and hitting $4 won't be easy. The estates were only low because your GF got three of them.

The engine won't win every time necessarily, but I'd bet it's over half the time.

But you can still three-pile on Duchy, Estate, Ruins without ever really needing more than $2 a turn.  Getting four more estates in time doesn't strike me as an insurmountable climb here.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 06:13:38 pm by chwhite »
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Transmute > Cultist
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 06:15:54 pm »
0

I'm not sold on it. If your opponent doesn't contest the silk roads and goes for a big engine, I think they will probably win.

Given how close the Estates were to running out, too... I'm not so sure about that.

That's not to say that either of us necessarily played perfectly– I'm sure neither of us did, in fact– but I'm pretty skeptical that the hardcore engine approach would actually beat a Silk Road-focused slog here.
You will have a lot of trouble ending the game in time, and the engine has double turn potential with outpost. It's tough without trashing, but it can be done. Meanwhile you have the entire silk road stack to get through, and hitting $4 won't be easy. The estates were only low because your GF got three of them.

The engine won't win every time necessarily, but I'd bet it's over half the time.

But you can still three-pile on Duchy, Estate, Ruins without ever really needing more than $2 a turn.  Getting four more estates in time doesn't strike me as an insurmountable climb here.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to hit $2 with a deck full of transmutes, duchies and ruins.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Transmute > Cultist
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 06:33:40 pm »
+2

I'm not sold on it. If your opponent doesn't contest the silk roads and goes for a big engine, I think they will probably win.

Given how close the Estates were to running out, too... I'm not so sure about that.

That's not to say that either of us necessarily played perfectly– I'm sure neither of us did, in fact– but I'm pretty skeptical that the hardcore engine approach would actually beat a Silk Road-focused slog here.
You will have a lot of trouble ending the game in time, and the engine has double turn potential with outpost. It's tough without trashing, but it can be done. Meanwhile you have the entire silk road stack to get through, and hitting $4 won't be easy. The estates were only low because your GF got three of them.

The engine won't win every time necessarily, but I'd bet it's over half the time.

The engine (or maybe just Cultist BM) will win approximately every time.

HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Transmute > Cultist
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 07:42:44 pm »
0

I'm not sold on it. If your opponent doesn't contest the silk roads and goes for a big engine, I think they will probably win.

Given how close the Estates were to running out, too... I'm not so sure about that.

That's not to say that either of us necessarily played perfectly– I'm sure neither of us did, in fact– but I'm pretty skeptical that the hardcore engine approach would actually beat a Silk Road-focused slog here.

I'm almost certain contesting the silk roads is a bad idea. There is no way you are going to empty that pile ever. There probably had to be come duchy denying to take value from your transmutes, but that doesn't have to happen until much later since you're not really getting them that fast.
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