Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]  All

Author Topic: Gokodom IV this summer?  (Read 6912 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kirian

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6837
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +8786
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2015, 11:24:29 am »
+4

I suppose I should likely weigh in on this, eh?

I realized several months back that the existence of the League put me in a bit of a bind.  I didn't want to step on toes by asking for a league hiatus--or by causing an exodus by creating GD4.  So I knew that I was going to have to plan a minimum of two months in advance.  (Consider that this thread is starting to plan 4 months in advance, and dealing with polling League participants.)

Because of my personal schedule, I don't currently have the ability to plan two months' worth of ten hours a week, and plan it three months in advance.  It's as simple as that.  But I can't really even guarantee I'd have time for the former even without the latter, so while the league was stopping me for a while, now it's just time in general.

While GokoDom has been sort of my personal demesne for a while, it's time to pass the torch.  There are several qualified candidates available and obviously plenty of interest, and I can hand you the spreadsheets and type up an explanation of how things go if you wish to maintain the same format.  So... I guess this thread is as good a place as any to tell me if you want to carry the torch, or if y'all want to form a group of some sort to do that.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +3962
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2015, 06:22:30 am »
+9

I'm willing to organize it, assuming I'll get some help.

"It" would be a big tournament in stead of a league season.
I'm very much open to the idea of making it a f.ds championship rather then a gokodom.
(Which basically means knock out from the start instead of Swiss followed by knock out.)

The reasoning behind that:
* if we want "excitement" over "fair" why not go all the way
* much more likely a lot of relatively weak players sign up, because there is no fear of something annoying that just drags on. You're guaranteed to either keep winning or it's just over.
* much easier to deal with players leaving halfway
* requires less effort / shorter break in the league

The argument against full knock out would be that it will be a short experience for some, but I think the league can provide a solution for people that run into that problem. Especially now that the E division seems to be working out.

In the meanwhile, please continue to give your opinion in this thread.
At some point there will be a vote / some voting, but then your opinion counts for only one.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

Monsieur X

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 101
  • Respect: +86
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2015, 07:46:00 am »
+3

I know nothing about organizing tournaments, i'm bad in English and in "using computers".
If my skills profile interests you Stef, i'm ok to help!

I want a fds tournament alive!
Logged

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Respect: +2447
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2015, 09:08:01 am »
+1

The f.ds first tournament that I ever participated in (and also the reason I joined the forums) had a loser's bracket. It was fun to get another chance after being paired against Marin first round. Sure, I lost the first round of the loser's bracket too, but still.
Logged

SCSN

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2201
  • Respect: +6936
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2015, 10:10:26 am »
+2

* if we want "excitement" over "fair" why not go all the way

Single game knock-out, one round per day!
Logged

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1529
  • Respect: +3633
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2015, 10:11:29 am »
+2

* if we want "excitement" over "fair" why not go all the way

Single game knock-out, one round per day!

Swindler required!
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4335
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2015, 10:39:01 am »
+9

* if we want "excitement" over "fair" why not go all the way

Single game knock-out, one round per day!

Swindler required!

We could go for "let's make Adam hate it" and require Knights, Tournament, Black Market, and Urchin.

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1939
  • Respect: +1927
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2015, 05:42:53 am »
+1

Double elimination seems like a good compromise between round robin and single elimination, especially if this becomes big. It is a bigger logistical nightmare to do this though, and grand finals could be tricky for Dominion. If someone resets the bracket both of the top 2 have to play 2 matches in a row, and that could be rough.

You could avoid that by switching to single elimination at some point. I'm thinking one of:

Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a double elimination bracket.
Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.
Double elimination groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.

seems most reasonable to me.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Burning Skull

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1026
  • Shuffle iT Username: Burning Skull
  • See you in the Outpost
  • Respect: +1570
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2015, 07:47:29 am »
0

* if we want "excitement" over "fair" why not go all the way

Single game knock-out, one round per day!

I kind of like that idea: with that approach it is not guaranteed for the top tier player to win that, which makes it more fun for the rest.

Kirian

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6837
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +8786
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2015, 08:36:09 am »
+1

Double elimination seems like a good compromise between round robin and single elimination, especially if this becomes big. It is a bigger logistical nightmare to do this though, and grand finals could be tricky for Dominion. If someone resets the bracket both of the top 2 have to play 2 matches in a row, and that could be rough.

You could avoid that by switching to single elimination at some point. I'm thinking one of:

Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a double elimination bracket.
Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.
Double elimination groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.

seems most reasonable to me.

Challonge, while crappy for Swiss tournaments, will take care of a large double elimination with few problems.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1939
  • Respect: +1927
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2015, 05:55:05 am »
0

Double elimination seems like a good compromise between round robin and single elimination, especially if this becomes big. It is a bigger logistical nightmare to do this though, and grand finals could be tricky for Dominion. If someone resets the bracket both of the top 2 have to play 2 matches in a row, and that could be rough.

You could avoid that by switching to single elimination at some point. I'm thinking one of:

Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a double elimination bracket.
Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.
Double elimination groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.

seems most reasonable to me.

Challonge, while crappy for Swiss tournaments, will take care of a large double elimination with few problems.

I think the possibility of having to do 2 sets for Grand Finals means you want to switch to single elim at some point anyways. You could say the winner's bracket gets to start with a free game, but I feel like that just patches the issue.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Kirian

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6837
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +8786
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2015, 08:40:33 am »
0

Double elimination seems like a good compromise between round robin and single elimination, especially if this becomes big. It is a bigger logistical nightmare to do this though, and grand finals could be tricky for Dominion. If someone resets the bracket both of the top 2 have to play 2 matches in a row, and that could be rough.

You could avoid that by switching to single elimination at some point. I'm thinking one of:

Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a double elimination bracket.
Small round robin groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.
Double elimination groups where top X of each seed into a single elimination bracket.

seems most reasonable to me.

Challonge, while crappy for Swiss tournaments, will take care of a large double elimination with few problems.

I think the possibility of having to do 2 sets for Grand Finals means you want to switch to single elim at some point anyways. You could say the winner's bracket gets to start with a free game, but I feel like that just patches the issue.

Then have eight smaller double elimination brackets, have the double win requirement at the end of each, then take the eight winners and move to single elimination.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +3962
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2015, 09:30:39 am »
+2

Double elimination tournament, although possible, is not what liopoil was referring to or how the f.ds championships used to work.
That was single elimination with an option for everyone who lost to continue playing in the losers bracket. You couldn't win the real title anymore but still have fun and perhaps become 'best of the rest'.

For me, the main reason I'd want this to happen is that it should be accessible to a lot of players that for a variety of reasons don't want to join the league.
I think a simple clean tournament structure that everybody understands should help with that. I'm willing to sacrifice quite a bit on the chance that the best player actually wins.

-> At this point I think single elimination, 1 round / week looks best. Any alternative has to be quite a bit better before I'd be willing to sacrifice simplicity.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2579
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2683
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2015, 09:35:57 am »
0

I think I'd prefer some kind of format where you are guaranteed to play multiple matches.
Swiss with 1 round/week sounds pretty cool I think.
Logged

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Respect: +2447
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2015, 09:36:29 am »
0

What I was referring to was indeed not double elimination, but I do support a full double elimination bracket with the winner of the normal bracket playing the winner of the loser's bracket, where the winner of the loser's bracket must win twice. Hopefully that is simple enough.
Logged

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +3962
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2015, 05:37:39 pm »
+4

I think I'd prefer some kind of format where you are guaranteed to play multiple matches.
Swiss with 1 round/week sounds pretty cool I think.
If guaranteed multiple matches is what you want, we already have a perfect solution: sign up for another season of the league.
This tournament is intended for people that are looking for something different.

I'm not saying I'm disregarding Swiss altogether, but it's going to take a different kind of argument then this one to convince me.
An argument that does not get answered by the thing we already have.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

Titandrake

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1939
  • Respect: +1927
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2015, 05:53:18 pm »
+4

I would prefer double elim to single elim. This guarantees 2 matches per player but still makes it easy to deal with dropouts, and weaker players still fall out pretty quickly so they don't have to commit to playing many matches where they lose the majority of them.

Personally, I enjoy storylines where someone falls into loser's bracket early and storms all the way back, and requiring 2 upsets before a knockout gives a decent buffer.

Edit: I believe structure is fairly straightforward if you use Challonge, since it labels where the loser of each match will go.
Logged
I have a blog! It's called Sorta Insightful. Check it out?

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2579
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2683
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2015, 08:33:26 am »
0

I think I'd prefer some kind of format where you are guaranteed to play multiple matches.
Swiss with 1 round/week sounds pretty cool I think.
If guaranteed multiple matches is what you want, we already have a perfect solution: sign up for another season of the league.
This tournament is intended for people that are looking for something different.

I'm not saying I'm disregarding Swiss altogether, but it's going to take a different kind of argument then this one to convince me.
An argument that does not get answered by the thing we already have.

But the league kinda requires you to commit for a longer period of time than just one season.
Logged

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +3962
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2015, 08:49:39 am »
0

But the league kinda requires you to commit for a longer period of time than just one season.
I don't know where you got that impression, but it's not true. You are very welcome to sign up for just one season.
If you want to play in the succeeding season you have to explicitly state that you're staying. The default is that you're not staying.

I know it's not a guarantee, but so far I've been able to reinsert everyone who took a break at the level they were entitled to when they left. Everyone who signed up for the first time got inserted at a level that resembled their skill (except probably DG, but his position on the leaderboard was way off and I didn't know).
In fact, it's mostly due to the people leaving & (re)joining that there is some flexibility and I've been able to facilitate this.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

BraveBear

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 107
  • Respect: +97
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2015, 11:00:18 am »
0

The point that Watno is trying to make I think is you can't "win it all" from just playing 1 season of the League.  You would have to play multiply seasons to promote to A.  Then be in the top 2 of A.

The main difference from the League and Gokodom (I've played in both) is the "feel."  The league in my eyes doesn't really feel like a tournament at all.  Its great at what it does, which is more or less a rating system.

I like the idea of a swiss start or a double elimination tournament.  Of course I would enter a single elimination trny at the drop of a hat.  I just think the league is so much different then a tournament already and shouldn't factor into discussion on how the next gokodom should be structured.
Logged

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2579
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2683
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2015, 11:16:08 am »
0

BraveBear is right about what I was meaning, though that point is invalidated a bit by the possibility of getting inserted higher up.
Logged

lespeutere

  • 2012 German Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 488
  • Respect: +388
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2015, 03:17:08 pm »
0

Same here as MonsieurX, except for the fact that I do not consider my English that bad.  ;) Anyway, I'd be willing to help.
Logged

Zappie

  • Thief
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 95
  • Respect: +44
    • View Profile
Re: Gokodom IV this summer?
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2015, 06:11:09 pm »
0

Now that the world cup has ended I thought that I might step out of online dominion, but if another fDs championships happens... -then I might just be able to convince my IRL group to join as well and contribute to the big tournament
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All
 

Page created in 0.089 seconds with 21 queries.