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[TheExpressicist]

I can't be the first to have thought of this but doesn't playing the final game or two as unrated introduce the potential for the host to cheat and use a custom deck? Or just keep randomizing until they find a kingdom they are comfortable with?

I have a few ideas for how to fix this but before I go too far down the rabbit hole, I wanted to see if this was something even really worth fixing.

(for the record, this is absolutely NOT meant to be an implicit accusation of cheating. In fact, in the only league match Ive played so far, I was the host.)

[-Stef-]

I can't be the first to have thought of this but doesn't playing the final game or two as unrated introduce the potential for the host to cheat and use a custom deck? Or just keep randomizing until they find a kingdom they are comfortable with?

I have a few ideas for how to fix this but before I go too far down the rabbit hole, I wanted to see if this was something even really worth fixing.

(for the record, this is absolutely NOT meant to be an implicit accusation of cheating. In fact, in the only league match Ive played so far, I was the host.)

I have enough faith in players not to consider this an issue. At least the top players all seem to have a good sense of etiquette.

If goko would implement a 'choose first player' feature that would off course be great regardless of this issue.
But generating the sets with a separate script just to prevent this possibility - I don't think it's worth the trouble.

[Joseph2302]

Completely agree with Stef, the ideal solution is to be able to choose first player.
Also, the level of civility of people on here leads me to believe that most, if not all, people would not resort to a form of cheating to win. Yes we all want to win, but I don't think many of us would bias boards in order to win.

[Awaclus]

I don't think this is an issue. There are no rewards for doing well in the League, so there's no reason why anyone would cheat.

[TheExpressicist]

Makes sense to me.

[WanderingWinder]

I agree, and I'm less worried about someone cheating by stacking a board on an unrated game in the league than I would be about someone abusing the ability to always go first in rated Pro games on the ladder.

[amalloy]

I don't think this is an issue. There are no rewards for doing well in the League, so there's no reason why anyone would cheat.

I mean, I don't think anyone is doing this in the league, but you think that there's no reason to cheat? For some people winning is really important, and they'd seek unfair advantages even in unrated non-league games (see, for instance, the Pirate Ship / King's Court setup board that someone or other plays over and over in Casual games). And in the league there are rewards for doing well: your name in lights on the leaderboard, the respect and admiration of other players...those can be more compelling than some smal monetary reward. So while, again, I don't think this is a serious issue that needs addressing, I don't agree at all that there's no reason anyone would cheat.

[jaketheyak]

I think the best implementation would be to have a rematch button come up after a match. It could have options like reverse order/random order, same kingdom/new kingdom.

[TheExpressicist]

I don't think this is an issue. There are no rewards for doing well in the League, so there's no reason why anyone would cheat.

I mean, I don't think anyone is doing this in the league, but you think that there's no reason to cheat? For some people winning is really important, and they'd seek unfair advantages even in unrated non-league games (see, for instance, the Pirate Ship / King's Court setup board that someone or other plays over and over in Casual games). And in the league there are rewards for doing well: your name in lights on the leaderboard, the respect and admiration of other players...those can be more compelling than some smal monetary reward. So while, again, I don't think this is a serious issue that needs addressing, I don't agree at all that there's no reason anyone would cheat.

AKA: The Pertinax Board.

I think there will always be a reason for people to cheat. But whether or not people actually do is another question altogether. And if they do, whether or not it's worth going through a bunch of hoops to stop it is also a different question entirely.

[JW]

I mean, I don't think anyone is doing this in the league, but you think that there's no reason to cheat? For some people winning is really important, and they'd seek unfair advantages even in unrated non-league games (see, for instance, the Pirate Ship / King's Court setup board that someone or other plays over and over in Casual games).

Leck is the one who has played hundreds of casual games against human opponents on that Pirate Ship pin/trap board (and presumably hundreds more against bot opponents so that he's on top of the casual "leaderboard").

AKA: The Pertinax Board.

Leck, Pertinax, and presumably others have helped to ruin the market for Casual games by cheating in this way.

This is one reason that a Salvager feature that showed the string used in the Kingdom generator to create a game (for unrated/casual games) but hid the Kingdom itself would be useful. For example, suppose you want to exclude Scout (or include Black Market), but not see the Kingdom in advance. Then other people could see that you hadn't preset an exact board designed so that you'll almost always win.

However, the advanced kingdom generator leads to relatively complicated strings to modify card frequencies, which could make seeing the string less informative. If the advanced kingdom generator were also a built in feature (3x: "Black Market", 0.33x: "Scout"), that would be ideal.

[amalloy]

I don't think this is an issue. There are no rewards for doing well in the League, so there's no reason why anyone would cheat.

I mean, I don't think anyone is doing this in the league, but you think that there's no reason to cheat? For some people winning is really important, and they'd seek unfair advantages even in unrated non-league games (see, for instance, the Pirate Ship / King's Court setup board that someone or other plays over and over in Casual games). And in the league there are rewards for doing well: your name in lights on the leaderboard, the respect and admiration of other players...those can be more compelling than some smal monetary reward. So while, again, I don't think this is a serious issue that needs addressing, I don't agree at all that there's no reason anyone would cheat.

AKA: The Pertinax Board.

I think there will always be a reason for people to cheat. But whether or not people actually do is another question altogether. And if they do, whether or not it's worth going through a bunch of hoops to stop it is also a different question entirely.

I don't quite understand Pertinax's chosen board. Leck's has a strong drawing engine available, and an unprepared player might go for that and then get clobbered by the massive Pirate Ship hits, so I can see why it's a good trick board. But Pertinax's just looks like...he's doing the obvious thing in those games. He opens Swindler, gets the sweet potion-cost cards, thins with Upgrade, and drops the hammer by Kinging his Jester/Swindler payload. What is it about this board that his opponents don't see coming?

[jaketheyak]

I don't think this is an issue. There are no rewards for doing well in the League, so there's no reason why anyone would cheat.

I mean, I don't think anyone is doing this in the league, but you think that there's no reason to cheat? For some people winning is really important, and they'd seek unfair advantages even in unrated non-league games (see, for instance, the Pirate Ship / King's Court setup board that someone or other plays over and over in Casual games). And in the league there are rewards for doing well: your name in lights on the leaderboard, the respect and admiration of other players...those can be more compelling than some smal monetary reward. So while, again, I don't think this is a serious issue that needs addressing, I don't agree at all that there's no reason anyone would cheat.

AKA: The Pertinax Board.

I think there will always be a reason for people to cheat. But whether or not people actually do is another question altogether. And if they do, whether or not it's worth going through a bunch of hoops to stop it is also a different question entirely.

I don't quite understand Pertinax's chosen board. Leck's has a strong drawing engine available, and an unprepared player might go for that and then get clobbered by the massive Pirate Ship hits, so I can see why it's a good trick board. But Pertinax's just looks like...he's doing the obvious thing in those games. He opens Swindler, gets the sweet potion-cost cards, thins with Upgrade, and drops the hammer by Kinging his Jester/Swindler payload. What is it about this board that his opponents don't see coming?

I don't think there needs to be any particular trap. The trick is just that he's practiced the board over and over.

[Beyond Awesome]

The thing is that you often have to reset the board multiple times just to get first turn order right. Would anyone really have that many preset kingdoms made just to win?

[theright555J]

I don't think this is an issue. There are no rewards for doing well in the League, so there's no reason why anyone would cheat.

I mean, I don't think anyone is doing this in the league, but you think that there's no reason to cheat? For some people winning is really important, and they'd seek unfair advantages even in unrated non-league games (see, for instance, the Pirate Ship / King's Court setup board that someone or other plays over and over in Casual games). And in the league there are rewards for doing well: your name in lights on the leaderboard, the respect and admiration of other players...those can be more compelling than some smal monetary reward. So while, again, I don't think this is a serious issue that needs addressing, I don't agree at all that there's no reason anyone would cheat.

AKA: The Pertinax Board.

I think there will always be a reason for people to cheat. But whether or not people actually do is another question altogether. And if they do, whether or not it's worth going through a bunch of hoops to stop it is also a different question entirely.

I don't quite understand Pertinax's chosen board. Leck's has a strong drawing engine available, and an unprepared player might go for that and then get clobbered by the massive Pirate Ship hits, so I can see why it's a good trick board. But Pertinax's just looks like...he's doing the obvious thing in those games. He opens Swindler, gets the sweet potion-cost cards, thins with Upgrade, and drops the hammer by Kinging his Jester/Swindler payload. What is it about this board that his opponents don't see coming?

So I saw Pertinax hosting a game today and figured I'd give it a go...I don't give a crap about my casual rating anyway.  He kicked me out of the game and then started one with a guy with a lousy record and low rating.  So very possibly he specifically preys on lower rated players who don't see the potential of a massive engine in the first place.