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Author Topic: M59: Blink Mafia (Game over - Weeping Angels win flawlessly!)  (Read 41377 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2015, 10:14:45 am »

I never said breaking a setup is against the spirit of the game. What you're probably referring to is how I said utilizing a mod mistake that was not part of the setup, like in holiday mafia, is against the spirit of the game. Obviously you can make the argument that a flawed setup is also a mod mistake, but I still see an essential difference there.

So, no, I'm perfectly fine with breaking this setup, if you know how. In fact, I think it would be awesome.

silverspawn

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2015, 10:15:38 am »

Hello. This is my first mafia game post.
Welcome. Vote: Rubby.

Gaah! I claim doctor! Or maybe jester. How do you play this game?

The first thing you should do is read the setup. There are no doctors, or jesters, or any conventional PR's in this game. There are just townies and weeping angels, and all townies have the same power, which is looking at someone during the night, as explained in the OP

oh, and welcome to mafia!

Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2015, 10:16:36 am »

I never said breaking a setup is against the spirit of the game. What you're probably referring to is how I said utilizing a mod mistake that was not part of the setup, like in holiday mafia, is against the spirit of the game. Obviously you can make the argument that a flawed setup is also a mod mistake, but I still see an essential difference there.

So, no, I'm perfectly fine with breaking this setup, if you know how. In fact, I think it would be awesome.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.  I guess I kind of consider it to be the same thing, or close enough, so I found your added sentiment ("unfortunately") to be odd.
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silverspawn

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2015, 10:16:46 am »

Nope, townie and glad to be so for my first game.

why is that?

Awaclus

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2015, 10:20:19 am »

The first thing you should do is read the setup.

That's what scum does!

There are no doctors, or jesters, or any conventional PR's in this game. There are just townies and weeping angels, and all townies have the same power, which is looking at someone during the night, as explained in the OP

Therefore, silverspawn is scum!
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Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2015, 10:21:46 am »

I need to find the perfect "Didn't read lol" gif for every Mafia game setup.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2015, 10:23:43 am »

if maybe he had played too much Dominion Online
unlikely

okay, so I've been thinking about this setup a little when I signed up, and unfortunately, I don't think there is a way to break it. The first idea I had was to assign players publicly to look at people in order to create IC's, but that has several problems

1) even if someone is successfully roleblocked, he might still be scum, and his partner performed the kill.
2) if we assign groups of 2 (3), it doesn't guarantee that the target is roleblocked if there is 1 (2) scum in the group
3) if everyone's night actions are public, it gives scum the opportunity to double kill freely.

Therefore, as long as both scum are still alive, I think we shouldn't make any night actions public, but instead let everyone decide on its own. In later days, we can figure something out with massclaims. I don't think we need to worry about the double kill if we do that, it seems crazy risky. To me, the double kill thing looks like a mechanic meant to specifically counter such a plan.

If one scum dies early though, then it might be worth to reconsider.

thoughts?

What about pairing off?  Isn't scum guaranteed to miss their nightkill unless they get selected together?
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Rubby

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2015, 10:27:30 am »

Hello. This is my first mafia game post.
Welcome. Vote: Rubby.

Gaah! I claim doctor! Or maybe jester. How do you play this game?

The first thing you should do is read the setup. There are no doctors, or jesters, or any conventional PR's in this game. There are just townies and weeping angels, and all townies have the same power, which is looking at someone during the night, as explained in the OP

oh, and welcome to mafia!

Thanks. I do understand the setup; I was attempting to be hilarious.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2015, 10:28:22 am »

Well, I'm sure Faust thought about that.. but, if we ever lynch scum, they can never kill?    So we lynch today, down to 8.  Four groups of two.  If there is two kills, we know one of the group contains both scum, and we'll have six left.  So that's like 1/3 chance of finding scum.  Say groups A,B,C. Lynch again, say from group A,either town or scum.

If town: Scum is in B or C.  SWITCH pairs between those two groups to guarantee no night kill, right?  last member of A just chill.

If scum, everyone just look at other member of A, kill the next day.

What if there is no kill?  Then maybe we just scumhunt as normal?  Not sure what to do when there is an odd number of people. 
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silverspawn

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2015, 10:29:17 am »

What about pairing off?  Isn't scum guaranteed to miss their nightkill unless they get selected together?

uhm... not sure I get what you mean. Do you mean creating groups of 2 and have them target each other? that doesn't do much, because you need to be locked at by 2 people to be roleblocked.

Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2015, 10:29:50 am »

Well, I'm sure Faust thought about that.. but, if we ever lynch scum, they can never kill?    So we lynch today, down to 8.  Four groups of two.  If there is two kills, we know one of the group contains both scum, and we'll have six left.  So that's like 1/3 chance of finding scum.  Say groups A,B,C. Lynch again, say from group A,either town or scum.

If town: Scum is in B or C.  SWITCH pairs between those two groups to guarantee no night kill, right?  last member of A just chill.

If scum, everyone just look at other member of A, kill the next day.

What if there is no kill?  Then maybe we just scumhunt as normal?  Not sure what to do when there is an odd number of people.

That sounds weird.  What I meant, was, if we ever lynch one scum, then we can prevent night kills by doing a cyclic look (p1->p2 -> ... pn ->p1) or pairing off if there is an even number.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2015, 10:30:16 am »

What about pairing off?  Isn't scum guaranteed to miss their nightkill unless they get selected together?

uhm... not sure I get what you mean. Do you mean creating groups of 2 and have them target each other? that doesn't do much, because you need to be locked at by 2 people to be roleblocked.

Okay, well, nevermind then.
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Rubby

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2015, 10:36:50 am »

I agree with SS about the coordinated night action idea - there doesn't seem to be a viable strategy that's likely to benefit us more than it benefits scum.

Regarding this,

One thing I'm wondering though is if after each night we massclaim who targetted who.

I'm not sure how much a "massclaim after each night" system helps us. I tend to think that just like with roleclaims in more standard setups, claims are something to be considered/discussed as circumstances warrant. Although the difference here is that it's information we wouldn't otherwise get if the person gets nightkilled. Maybe people who are (or think they are) about to be killed should announce their past targets.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2015, 10:39:00 am »

I agree with SS about the coordinated night action idea - there doesn't seem to be a viable strategy that's likely to benefit us more than it benefits scum.

Regarding this,

One thing I'm wondering though is if after each night we massclaim who targetted who.

I'm not sure how much a "massclaim after each night" system helps us. I tend to think that just like with roleclaims in more standard setups, claims are something to be considered/discussed as circumstances warrant. Although the difference here is that it's information we wouldn't otherwise get if the person gets nightkilled. Maybe people who are (or think they are) about to be killed should announce their past targets.


Wait I don't get this.  We all have the same role, so this isn't like a massclaim at all.  It makes sense to me to announce who we targeted the previous night.  But we have to realize scum will lie.
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Rubby

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2015, 11:12:14 am »

I agree with SS about the coordinated night action idea - there doesn't seem to be a viable strategy that's likely to benefit us more than it benefits scum.

Regarding this,

One thing I'm wondering though is if after each night we massclaim who targetted who.

I'm not sure how much a "massclaim after each night" system helps us. I tend to think that just like with roleclaims in more standard setups, claims are something to be considered/discussed as circumstances warrant. Although the difference here is that it's information we wouldn't otherwise get if the person gets nightkilled. Maybe people who are (or think they are) about to be killed should announce their past targets.


Wait I don't get this.  We all have the same role, so this isn't like a massclaim at all.  It makes sense to me to announce who we targeted the previous night.  But we have to realize scum will lie.

Yes, we all have the same role, but my point was that previous-target claiming is in some ways like PR claiming. I did note the key difference, but it's still giving information to scum as much as to us - arguably it's giving more information to scum, because they know who's lying and who's not. I don't dispute that there's a place for previous-target claiming - and we can probably be more liberal with it than we would with PR claiming in a standard setup - but we should maybe consider making it a strategic/tactical thing rather than an automatic mass thing.
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silverspawn

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2015, 11:18:56 am »

So, let's break this down logically. Let's say I'm scum, and everyone claims whom he has targeted. Does this help me in any way?

... I don't see how. Unless someone can explain me how it does, I'd actually say let us claim every day. Of course the order is problematic, because scum wants to claim as late as possible. Maybe we should come up with a way to determine an order efficiently.

Rubby

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2015, 11:22:46 am »

Nope, townie and glad to be so for my first game.

why is that?

Just more straightforward and relaxed this way. I'm sure once I have some experience I'll be interested in playing the other side.
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Awaclus

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2015, 11:40:21 am »

Yes, we all have the same role, but my point was that previous-target claiming is in some ways like PR claiming. I did note the key difference, but it's still giving information to scum as much as to us - arguably it's giving more information to scum, because they know who's lying and who's not. I don't dispute that there's a place for previous-target claiming - and we can probably be more liberal with it than we would with PR claiming in a standard setup - but we should maybe consider making it a strategic/tactical thing rather than an automatic mass thing.

There's the difference that PR claiming gives scum information that scum actually needs.
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Rubby

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2015, 12:00:10 pm »

So, let's break this down logically. Let's say I'm scum, and everyone claims whom he has targeted. Does this help me in any way?

... I don't see how. Unless someone can explain me how it does, I'd actually say let us claim every day.

Well, the good may well outweigh the bad, but yes, I can construct a scenario where massclaiming helps scum!you:
A double kill occurs. Everyone targetted Rubby. With the massclaim, silverspawn and his partner now know that Rubby is an IC. Without the massclaim, Rubby would still be an IC to every townie, but scum wouldn't know it.

Anyway, I'm open to the possibility that claiming each day turns out to be for the best. It just seems more natural to make that determination each day based on the circumstances, rather than making a decision now for all future days.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2015, 12:07:57 pm »

Hm.. not true.  Each townie only knows he looked at Rubby, not that two people looked at him.  So the massclaim is needed to make an IC.
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silverspawn

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2015, 12:12:55 pm »

Hm.. not true.  Each townie only knows he looked at Rubby, not that two people looked at him.  So the massclaim is needed to make an IC.

++

Rubby

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2015, 12:15:48 pm »

From the setup:

At any time during the game, the Weeping Angel faction may choose to double kill. If they do, they may send in two night kill targets for that night. If none if the living Weeping Angels is looked at even by a single town player that night, both kills will be successful. If any of the Weeping Angels is looked at, both kills will fail.
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Rubby

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2015, 12:17:01 pm »

Only one "look at" is needed to prevent the double kill, right?
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silverspawn

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2015, 12:22:51 pm »

oh, you're right of course.

so, yeah ,that's a scenario where claiming benefits scum. But obviously it's marginal. I still think we should claim every day.

But we can discuss that tomorrow. Let's start scumhunting for now. vote: Awaclus

Awaclus

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Re: M59: Blink Mafia (D1)
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2015, 12:31:33 pm »

oh, you're right of course.

so, yeah ,that's a scenario where claiming benefits scum. But obviously it's marginal. I still think we should claim every day.

But we can discuss that tomorrow. Let's start scumhunting for now. vote: Awaclus

I haven't been scummy this game. Unlike a certain someone who was scum in Futuramafia.
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