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[theblankman]

Code: [Select]

Beggar, Lookout, Philosopher's Stone, Band of Misfits, Highway, Jester, Market, Rabble, Rogue, Peddler

Been toying with this one since a league match way back in season one... there's really fast pile-ending possibilities with Highway, Market, Peddler and Lookout for thinning.  The board is interesting enough already, as you have to carefully control piles and track your opponent's deck in a mirror to make sure they won't pile out and beat you.  But that's only four relevant kingdom cards.  I'd like to see if I can add another viable strategy to the board, but if NOT contested, the Highway/Market stack can get all 8 Provinces really fast (~14 turns), so it's tough.  This is the original random kingdom from my league match, not any variant I've tried.  I'm thinking strong alt-VP (Vineyard?) or a really fast Money-support card (Wharf? Jack?) might work.  Other ideas? 

[Jack Rudd]

Maybe a Village of some sort could be put in, to see if a Rabble engine has any prospects.

[theblankman]

Hmm... Rabble attack doesn't really hurt the Highway deck, and the engine needs +buy and money from somewhere.  There's Market for +buy, but I'm not sure the engine comes together fast enough if it also has to buy treasures.  Maybe use Bandit Camp as the village?  (Or Bazaar or Fishing)

Another thought was to put in a junking attack that'll slow down the Highway deck.  Mountebank or Cultist might be overdoing it, but maybe a village and Torturer?

Although a village might also enable Rogue as a payload... if you can deliver two or three of them per turn you might slow down and eventually cripple the Highway-Market deck, then steal it and play it for yourself. 

[flies]

Uncontested, Cultist would probably obliterate the engine.  Mountebank is another possibility, but I don't see it as really enabling any kind of alternative strategy without a village to enable some kind of terminal draw, possibly embassy (nice for junking silver), smithy, or oracle. 

Rabble engine, even with IW+village, by itself is far too slow to contend with highway/market, so you want some other draw card.  So you could add Monty, Witch, vanillage/fishing village, in place of rabble, rogue and stone.  I mean, I still think there's only one strategy in that case, monty/witch into market/highway, but it's trickier to time your buys and with curses running end-game tactics are much more of a thing.

[theblankman]

What if we added Cultist with Vineyard as a pseudo-counter? (And it can also be worth lots of points in the straight Highway/Market deck)

Also some village, it seems like you need it to contest the cantrip engine in any way.

[markusin]

A village with Mountebank or Cultist should be enough seriously weaken Highway/Market/Peddler. Lookout is a stop card trasher, so it may not be great against junkers to enable a Highway Megaturn. I think Highway/Market/Peddler will still be vital, but how to build up to it won't be as obvious.

[theblankman]

A village with Cultist and Vineyard lets you pursue an alternate strategy if your opponent goes for Cultist though; just stop playing your Lookouts (or use them on Copper) and slog to big Vineyards.  Mountebank slows the cantrip deck down no matter what, you probably need multiple Lookouts and some luck to pull off the Highway/Market/Peddler deck there.  But I think even a slightly weaker junker like Witch would hurt the cantrip deck a lot less.  Wwo or three early Lookouts and careful deck tracking can probably beat Witch. 

[Throwaway_bicycling]

Well, whenever I see Peddler I think "Trash for Benefit", and whenever I think "TfB", I am now primed by another ongoing thread to think "Apprentice". Swap Apprentice for (say) Rogue, and I think you can get up to warp speed.

Disclaimer: I'm not that great a player.

EDIT: Oops, my suggestion probably turbocharges Highway/Market more than it would juice any alternative strategy. Is there a place for Stone Mason here to generate a faster win by the usual slicing and dicing techniques?

[liopoil]

Are we trying to get the shortest game absolutely possible, or just pretty fast but not degenerate? And how much of the kingdom are we willing to replace?

[Elestan]

The speed tiebreaker Kingdom I've used in my tournaments is:

Code: [Select]

Chapel, Market Square, Bridge, Gardens, Ironworks, Talisman, Council Room, Haggler, Jester, Border Village
So far, it's never taken more than 10 minutes to play, and I've seen it played in about four.  In RL.

[theblankman]

Are we trying to get the shortest game absolutely possible, or just pretty fast but not degenerate? And how much of the kingdom are we willing to replace?

Not the shortest game possible.  Highway/Market/Peddler/Lookout is already pretty fast and not degenerate, in fact I think it's a very interesting mirror to play.  What I'm looking for is to make this a board where you could also play a competitive non-mirror.  So I want to replace some of the "blanks" with cards that either enable a different, also-fast strategy, or slow down the Highway/Market strat enough to compete (hence the talk about junk attacks).

Edit: And since it's you, bonus points for working in Watchtower somehow