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[senseless]

Thinking about new expansion's events led me to this and, although it doesn't exactly fit the description, I really liked it. So here's an idea:

Decree -

There's only one copy of each card, with a blue back, to be mixed with the randomizers. These are not kingdom cards so, when you randomly draw one just keep drawing until you have 10 kingdom cards.
Each one changes slightly (or not so slightly) game rules for this game, can't be avoided and won't be referenced by any card.
These aren't tested in any way, treat them as examples/placeholders.

Royal Pardon - At the end of the game, each Curse is worth 1VP more. (turning them into confusions)
Landholders - At the end of the game, each Victory card is worth 1VP more.
Golden Age - Gold costs 1$ less, but not less than 0$.
Discovery - At the end of their Cleanup phase, that player draws 1 card.
Taxes - The next kingdom card selected costs 1$ more.
Latifundium - Provinces are worth 1VP less.
City States - Each player starts their turns with +1 buy.

2nd batch.-
Barren Land - This game needs 1 empty pile less to end.
All-out War - Attack and Reaction cards cost 1$ less, not less than 0.
Barter - At any time, a player may discard 3 (2?) cards with the same name to draw 1 card.
New World - This game is played with 2 additional Kingdom piles.
Egg Hunt - Cards from the next Kingdom pile selected are worth 1VP.
Cultural Diversity (this one's a bit sketchy) - This game is played with 10 additional Kingdom piles. Remove half the card from each pile. This game needs double the empty piles to end.
Honey and Wine - Once the game is setup, add a copy of the cheapest Kingdom card to each player's deck. That player chooses in case of a tie.

etc

These should be easily testable, as you only need to adapt some randomizing program to play with them. I'll try to test these this weekend and report. What do you think?

[eHalcyon]

I am pretty sure that something very similar to (or maybe even the same as) this has been suggested before.  Multiple times, I think.  As I recall, there hasn't been any extensive testing but the concept is generally well receive.

[senseless]

I am pretty sure that something very similar to (or maybe even the same as) this has been suggested before.  Multiple times, I think.  As I recall, there hasn't been any extensive testing but the concept is generally well receive.

Oops, nothing came out after a light search

[eHalcyon]

I am pretty sure that something very similar to (or maybe even the same as) this has been suggested before.  Multiple times, I think.  As I recall, there hasn't been any extensive testing but the concept is generally well receive.

Oops, nothing came out after a light search

Tough to find any, especially not knowing what they were called before.  I'm not even trying. No worries, similar ideas happen all the time. If you do testing and report back with results, you'll be ahead if the curve!

[popsofctown]

Question for everyone:

Which is better design? For guilds to come out with Baker as-is, or for Guilds to come out with Baker without the text below the line and to come out with a coin token decree?

I lean towards the latter

[LastFootnote]

Question for everyone:

Which is better design? For guilds to come out with Baker as-is, or for Guilds to come out with Baker without the text below the line and to come out with a coin token decree?

I lean towards the latter

I tentatively like the former. It makes Baker more interesting even though it has zero impact on how it plays.

[TheOthin]

I also prefer the former. It helps designate the mechanic for an appropriate board, even though it isn't overly relevant, and works within Dominion's typical methods of being defined by Kingdom cards.

The Baker notion actually offers an alternative way to get the Decrees into play, by tying them to the Setup of certain cards. For example, there could be an unusually cheap cursing attack that has a Setup instruction of putting the Curse --> Confusion Decree into play.

[LastFootnote]

I've been thinking about this more. I like Baker as-is because it's a setup rule; you don't have to remember that Baker is in the game while playing. For stuff like Golden Age, Discovery, Taxes, and City States, I think it would be better to have a separate Decree card. Especially because you can e.g. put the Taxes card sideways under the affected pile as a reminder, and likewise with Golden Age. The other three (Royal Pardon, Landholders, and Latifundium) could be on Kingdom cards, but probably would work better as Decrees.

OK, with that out of the way, I'll critique the suggested Decrees.

Royal Pardon - At the end of the game, each Curse is worth 1VP more. (turning them into confusions)

This doesn't seem terribly interesting to me. What about, "Curses are Action cards with the ability, 'Return this to the Supply'?"

Landholders - At the end of the game, each Victory card is worth 1VP more.

Hmm, makes Victory cards better. That might be fun, especially with Victory enablers like Crossroads. I think it helps smaller VP cards more than bigger ones, so it seems a bit redundant with Latifundium. Probably you just want whichever one ends up being more fun. It's possible that neither changes the game enough to be interesting.

Golden Age - Gold costs 1$ less, but not less than 0$.

Not a big fan. You could maybe have a Decree that made Treasures more expensive, but I'm leery there too.

Discovery - At the end of their Cleanup phase, that player draws 1 card.

OK, I like this one. Not much else to say. Definitely worth a shot.

Taxes - The next kingdom card selected costs 1$ more.

Probably this just means nobody buys that card. Try "The next Kingdom cards selected costs $1 less." Then you've got a game-changer.

Latifundium - Provinces are worth 1VP less.

See Landholders.

City States - Each player starts their turns with +1 buy.

Not super-exciting, but I think worth trying. Maybe you could combine it with something else to jazz it up a bit. "At the start of each turn, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Buy."

[popsofctown]

Question for everyone:

Which is better design? For guilds to come out with Baker as-is, or for Guilds to come out with Baker without the text below the line and to come out with a coin token decree?

I lean towards the latter

I tentatively like the former. It makes Baker more interesting even though it has zero impact on how it plays.

But which one makes Dominion more interesting?  The number of possible boards is higher with the decree version.  Baker is less interesting without it, but Dominion seems more interesting overall, that way, to me.

It seems like there is some interesting possible impacts from a setup coin token being the only coin token source in a kingdom that will never ever be explored with Baker as-is, because Baker always tags along.

That's just my opinion, I respect others'

[eHalcyon]

Question for everyone:

Which is better design? For guilds to come out with Baker as-is, or for Guilds to come out with Baker without the text below the line and to come out with a coin token decree?

I lean towards the latter

I tentatively like the former. It makes Baker more interesting even though it has zero impact on how it plays.

But which one makes Dominion more interesting?  The number of possible boards is higher with the decree version.  Baker is less interesting without it, but Dominion seems more interesting overall, that way, to me.

It seems like there is some interesting possible impacts from a setup coin token being the only coin token source in a kingdom that will never ever be explored with Baker as-is, because Baker always tags along.

That's just my opinion, I respect others'

You can almost get this scenario with Baker in the Black Market.

[scott_pilgrim]

Landholders - At the end of the game, each Victory card is worth 1VP more.

Hmm, makes Victory cards better. That might be fun, especially with Victory enablers like Crossroads. I think it helps smaller VP cards more than bigger ones, so it seems a bit redundant with Latifundium. Probably you just want whichever one ends up being more fun. It's possible that neither changes the game enough to be interesting.

Wait, it makes victory cards better?  Relative to VP tokens and cursing, you mean?  I don't think that will have a noticeable effect on things like Crossroads, Scout, etc.  Mostly what Landholders does is it makes smaller victory cards (particularly hybrid victory cards) better.  Great Hall is now worth 2 VP instead of 1.  Of course, 2 VP isn't as much as it normally is (2 Great Halls=1 Duchy).

I think it would be a fun idea to try.  Also, I don't know why but I think it's funny that it makes Overgrown Estate worth 1 VP.


I think I like the coin token as a decree better than on Baker, if that were an option.  It's more elegant that way I think, and leads to more variety in a way that's not problematic, if we're allowed to assume the player owns Guilds and [Decree expansion] anyway.

[LastFootnote]

Landholders - At the end of the game, each Victory card is worth 1VP more.

Hmm, makes Victory cards better. That might be fun, especially with Victory enablers like Crossroads. I think it helps smaller VP cards more than bigger ones, so it seems a bit redundant with Latifundium. Probably you just want whichever one ends up being more fun. It's possible that neither changes the game enough to be interesting.

Wait, it makes victory cards better?  Relative to VP tokens and cursing, you mean?

No, I mean relative to Action and Treasure cards. Maybe that's not how it works out, but that was my intuition. Obviously you can't just buy Victory cards, but I bet a lot of games with Landholders end with the Estates and Duchies gone.

[LastFootnote]

I thought of a Decree.

Patrons — Whenever you shuffle (not counting before your first turn), first gain a Silver.

[scott_pilgrim]

Landholders - At the end of the game, each Victory card is worth 1VP more.

Hmm, makes Victory cards better. That might be fun, especially with Victory enablers like Crossroads. I think it helps smaller VP cards more than bigger ones, so it seems a bit redundant with Latifundium. Probably you just want whichever one ends up being more fun. It's possible that neither changes the game enough to be interesting.

Wait, it makes victory cards better?  Relative to VP tokens and cursing, you mean?

No, I mean relative to Action and Treasure cards. Maybe that's not how it works out, but that was my intuition. Obviously you can't just buy Victory cards, but I bet a lot of games with Landholders end with the Estates and Duchies gone.

I don't think it makes sense to say victory cards are better relative to actions and treasures.  If Estates were worth 10 VP, you wouldn't say victory cards have now become better than actions and treasures.  Maybe you would, now that I think about it, because you don't care about building up any more.  I guess I see what you're saying, but somehow that doesn't seem like the right way to think about it to me, though I'm not sure why.

[senseless]

Changing victory cards' worth doesn't make them any better than treasures and actions*, but changes the hierarchy among them. Suddenly, 2 duchies are better than 1 province.

The thing with baker's decree is that, without the extra coin token, baker would be boring.

I like the +1 action or buy and free silver with each shuffle decrees! A couple more ideas added to first post.

*Subject to further tests.

[popsofctown]

I like Last Footnote's decree ok.  A copper version would also be cool if it didn't slow down the game too much.

I would nerf it to gaining the Silver after you shuffle, not for balance reasons, but because I anticipate myself shuffling my deck after turn 2 and going, "oh, crap, I'm supposed to put a Silver in, all the randomization I've done thus far is invalidated."  And then I'm adding shuffling to Dominion and you know that's bad.  And I could see that happening on later turns once or twice too.  You could put it on top or bottom of the deck too, that also fixes that problem.