Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[-Stef-]

Code: [Select]

Stonemason, Apothecary, Bishop, Cutpurse, Throne Room, Cache, Council Room, Jester, Merchant Guild, Soothsayer
I played this set a few days ago against hirotashi. He goes for a money based strategy with Soothsayer giving him free golds, helped by the 5/2 start. I decide to go engine with Apothecaries and Throne rooms, scoring my points with bishop. At first I think I have the much better strategy, but after some misplays (also due to some bad early draws?) I fall behind a lot.

This is a scenario I've seen a lot on other peoples streams recently: they decide to build some kind of engine that scores with something else then provinces (probably Goons, Bishop or Monument, or maybe some alternative green card) and in the meanwhile their opponent goes for provinces. Their opponent has no other possibility to end the game except for buying out the provinces. And then they panic because of the huge points deficit, buy some provinces themselves, and then usually just lose. The point difference may decrease, but the certainty of the loss only increases when you panic like this. For the BM player buying the 7th and 8th province is really hard when the other 6 get in the way in their deck. Don't help them out!

In the meanwhile, the power of your own deck can exponentially keep growing if you just keep building.
I will admit it doesn't always work out as good as this, but it's so beautiful when it does. Yes, the 0-7 province deficit is scary, but I know that when I panic it's all over.

[Mic Qsenoch]

Also if you are the player who needs to pile Provinces, don't buy Duchies unless there's some immediate game ending points consideration.

[KingZog3]

This is great. Almost deserves a mini article or something. I know I've done this a lot, panicking and then a few turns later regretting the VP buys.

[JW]

At first I think I have the much better strategy, but after some misplays (also due to some bad early draws?) I fall behind a lot.

Can you describe where you think you misplayed early? Getting Merchant Guild on turn 5 over Throne Room? On turn 6 you know that the top card is an Estate, would it have been worth triggering the shuffle with Apothecary to trash it to Bishop?

[-Stef-]

At first I think I have the much better strategy, but after some misplays (also due to some bad early draws?) I fall behind a lot.

Can you describe where you think you misplayed early? Getting Merchant Guild on turn 5 over Throne Room? On turn 6 you know that the top card is an Estate, would it have been worth triggering the shuffle with Apothecary to trash it to Bishop?

No, I can't play that Apothecary. It would make 3 apothecaries and my potion miss the shuffle (and the bishop and the silver)
The problem is the bishop itself - I get it way too early. I don't even play it the first 2 times I draw it!
It could (should) have been a Throne Room. I realized too late I could also trash with the stonemasons I'd be getting anyway.
It's only slightly worse for trashing then the bishop, and that way I don't help my opponent out so much.

I think I should get a couple of bishops around turn 12, not sooner.

[Elestan]

It looks like the log viewer is miscalculating the VP chips from Bishop.  Is this a known issue?

[WanderingWinder]

This is one of the very biggest problems I see less-experienced engine players make. It's particularly extreme in cases where you have that other source of VP, but it's present even when you don't.

[Davio]

We all know the trick is trying to end the game when you're ahead. If you don't have a plan to accomplish this, you're in trouble. Mindlessly buying Provinces, then Duchies, then Estates will kill your deck pretty quickly. The turn 11 Duchy buy by Hirotashi is pretty awkward.

In this case, Hirotashi could have certainly benefited from a Bishop himself, trashing those nasty Provinces while sacrificing only 1 VP, or a Council Room to draw those delicious Golds. You can support more than 2 terminals in a 30 card deck.

Your point is valid, Stef, don't help your opponent end the game when he's ahead, but it would have been more fun to see what had happened if your opponent played a bit better.


Coincidentally I just played a game which illustrates your point (Quazar is my alt since I switched Google+ accounts): http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150109/log.5413652ce4b0e5ad6178823b.1420830966736.txt
I really had to constrain myself to not buy any Province and hope my multi-Bridge turn would happen sometime soon. I misplayed it a bit (or a lot), but I didn't panic and was lucky enough to turn the game around with one mega-turn.

[bardo]

Here's a fun vineyards engine that also illustrates your point. I probably would have lost if I had purchased even one province before the last turn. I had to be especially patient, as the only source of +buy was City.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150120/log.5319f973e4b08c4b63260c65.1421777349053.txt

However, you could probably also argue that my opponent played sub-optimally (opening Trading post/crossroads; helping me deplete the Cities even though he wasn't planning on using them), so Davio's point stands as well.

[dondon151]

Crossroads may not be great as an open, but I would definitely open TP on that board if I had the chance.