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[BraveBear]

Here's a small 10 card set that you should be able to play with any other set.  There really isn't a new theme, just some cards that I believe to be balanced, some new ideas I think, and some simple cards but ones that might cause some tough decisions.

Before I begin testing these cards I would like some feedback on them.  Thanks


Duck Call
(Action) $2
+ 1 action
+ 2 cards
Choose one: Discard 2 cards or put a card on the top of your deck

A card that helps any deck, very versatile.  Should make for some interesting decisions in big money games and engines.

Camouflage
(Action) $2
+ 2 actions
You may choose a treasure card from your hand and play it immediately

A village that really helps draw to X and has some interesting plays with trashing and Tactician.  I think it should be fine at $2

Fur Hat
(Action/Attack) $3
+ 1 action
+ 1 card
You may gain a copper.  If you do so, each player gains a curse

A 3 dollar cantrip curser!?!?  Well when you have to gain a copper everytime you give out a curse this becomes a tougher decision.

Deer
(Reaction/Victory) $3
Worth 2 VP
_________________________________________________
When one of your cards is trashed you may discard this.  If you do +2 actions, +2 cards

I wanted a card that beefs up terminal trashers. Combos with cards like develope and trade route.  Not always going to have trashing in the kingdom but should still better used then tunnel.  I think it should be pretty balanced because you have to use one of your early buys on it to help you accelerate.  Might be a little swingy.

Scope
(Action)  $3
Look at the top 2 cards of you deck.  You may put one of them back into the supply. Discard the rest.  + 1 action for each card you discard this way.

A lookout variant with a bonus.  It doesn’t force you to get rid of your good cards and if you need a village you can’t.  Some tough decisions later in the game.

Knife
(Action/Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards discards 2 cards of the same type.
If the type is Curse/Ruin the player draws 3 cards, Treasure or Action draws 1 card

A discard attack that makes players discard cards of the same type.  So its different then miltia and bad in curse/ruin games.  Seems strong weak depending on other players strategy


Hunting Camp
(Action ) $4
+2 actions
You may trash a card from your hand.
_______________________________________________
While this is in play if buy a Victory card gain a copper

While this just seems over powered, you better have an end game stragey because your deck could become very clogged very fast.  Gardens…….

Rifle
(Action) $5
+3 cards
Choose one : +1 Coin Token or +1 VP token

This sets +3 card variant, pretty simple but could be some tough decisions towards the end game.  Might always chose coin token, but dont know.

Moose
(Action) $5
+1 action
Name a card from the supply.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase put both those cards back into the supply.

I have no idea if this concept would work or how many problems it could create with the lose track rule but I think it could be really fun.  Seems like it could be too powerful maybe idk


Shooting Trophy
(Treasure) $5
+$0
When you buy a victory card gain another copy of it putting it on top of your deck.

I like the idea of a good treasure card that helps you get more green, pretty simple card to add and could be crazy for engines


I haven't gone through all the threads to fine out if some of these ideas have already been done.  But anyways let me know what you think, what I can do to improve some of the cards, which ones you would play with, and which ones are duds.

[AJD]

Deer
(Reaction/Victory) $3
Worth 2 VP
_________________________________________________
When one of your cards is trashed you may discard this.  If you do +2 actions, +2 cards

This doesn't work because it's really confusing what should happen if one of your cards is trashed when it's not your turn.

Scope
(Action)  $3
Look at the top 2 cards of you deck.  You may put one of them back into the supply. Discard the rest.  + 1 action for each card you discard this way.

A lookout variant with a bonus.  It doesn’t force you to get rid of your good cards and if you need a village you can’t.  Some tough decisions later in the game.

How does it have tough decisions later in the game? It seems to me later in the game it's basically a Necropolis.

Knife
(Action/Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards discards 2 cards of the same type.
If the type is Curse/Ruin the player draws 3 cards, Treasure or Action draws 1 card

This needs some kind of keep-you-honest clause. What does a player do if they have no two cards of the same type in hand?

Moose
(Action) $5
+1 action
Name a card from the supply.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase put both those cards back into the supply.

I have no idea if this concept would work or how many problems it could create with the lose track rule but I think it could be really fun.  Seems like it could be too powerful maybe idk

1) Yeah, the lose-track rule makes this unworkable—if the cards are anywhere other than your hand during the cleanup phase they don't get returned.
2) Even if it worked as intended, this would be strictly better than Band of Misfits.

[BraveBear]

Deer
(Reaction/Victory) $3
Worth 2 VP
_________________________________________________
When one of your cards is trashed you may discard this.  If you do +2 actions, +2 cards

This doesn't work because it's really confusing what should happen if one of your cards is trashed when it's not your turn.

Scope
(Action)  $3
Look at the top 2 cards of you deck.  You may put one of them back into the supply. Discard the rest.  + 1 action for each card you discard this way.

A lookout variant with a bonus.  It doesn’t force you to get rid of your good cards and if you need a village you can’t.  Some tough decisions later in the game.

How does it have tough decisions later in the game? It seems to me later in the game it's basically a Necropolis.

Knife
(Action/Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards discards 2 cards of the same type.
If the type is Curse/Ruin the player draws 3 cards, Treasure or Action draws 1 card

This needs some kind of keep-you-honest clause. What does a player do if they have no two cards of the same type in hand?

Moose
(Action) $5
+1 action
Name a card from the supply.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase put both those cards back into the supply.

I have no idea if this concept would work or how many problems it could create with the lose track rule but I think it could be really fun.  Seems like it could be too powerful maybe idk

1) Yeah, the lose-track rule makes this unworkable—if the cards are anywhere other than your hand during the cleanup phase they don't get returned.
2) Even if it worked as intended, this would be strictly better than Band of Misfits.

Deer
I'll change Deer to read on the reaction.  "When you trash a card from your hand, +2 actions, +2 cards"

Scope
Yeah I guess I meant at the beginning of the game where you have to decide about being a village or a trasher.  The late game it does just skipp and provide actions.  How do you like the card though?

Knife
I guess I could say "or reveal a hand with no duplicate card types"

Moose
I think to make Moose "not strickly better the BOM"  I need to take away the + 1 action.  Then if you dont have any actions left you have to choose money and if you do have actions left then you can choose more cards.  I think the lose track rule wont really matter.  If you use moose to gain cards into your hand then trash those cards or discard those cards then thats just a way that makes moose awesome.  The only way you have to return them is if the card is in your play area or hand at the end of your turn.  I think most of the time you are going to be returning the copies.  I might have to resrict it to cards of equal value to or less to moose.  You can't just put two golds in your hand each turn haha

[Drab Emordnilap]

Am I missing something with Moose? Can't you get +$6 any time you play it? Or two of whatever the best action is? Buying Moose is like buying two of whatever card is best in the kingdom, for $5. How is that even close to realistic?

[Awaclus]

The only way you have to return them is if the card is in your play area

If it's in your play area, then you don't return it because Moose expects it to be in your hand and then it's not in your hand so Moose loses track of it.

[TheOthin]

You'd need some clause about "if that card is in play, return it" except you couldn't verify that it was the same card and of course if you just discarded it with Oasis or something you'd get to keep it. And even if it were somehow all fixed to just function as intended, it wouldn't address the core problem of it being just Band of Misfits hugely buffed for no reason. It's not a salvageable concept.

Also it does not say you can't gain two more Moose.

[AJD]

Deer
I'll change Deer to read on the reaction.  "When you trash a card from your hand, +2 actions, +2 cards"

Still doesn't work; it's possible to trash a card from your hand on someone else's turn.

Scope
Yeah I guess I meant at the beginning of the game where you have to decide about being a village or a trasher.  The late game it does just skipp and provide actions.  How do you like the card though?

Not that inspiring really? But it could be fine, I guess. Playtest it a lot and see what happens.

Knife
I guess I could say "or reveal a hand with no duplicate card types"

…Meaning if someone has no matching types, they don't have to discard anything at all?

[BraveBear]

Am I missing something with Moose? Can't you get +$6 any time you play it? Or two of whatever the best action is? Buying Moose is like buying two of whatever card is best in the kingdom, for $5. How is that even close to realistic?

Yeah the new moose should look like this.

Moose
(Action) $5
Name a card from the supply that is equal or lesser value then moose.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase if either of those cards are in play or your hand, return them to the supply.

[BraveBear]

Deer
I'll change Deer to read on the reaction.  "When you trash a card from your hand, +2 actions, +2 cards"

Still doesn't work; it's possible to trash a card from your hand on someone else's turn.

Scope
Yeah I guess I meant at the beginning of the game where you have to decide about being a village or a trasher.  The late game it does just skipp and provide actions.  How do you like the card though?

Not that inspiring really? But it could be fine, I guess. Playtest it a lot and see what happens.

Knife
I guess I could say "or reveal a hand with no duplicate card types"

…Meaning if someone has no matching types, they don't have to discard anything at all?

Ill have to think on Deer some more, I really want a Reaction/Victory that buffs terminal trashing.

Yes to your Knife question, I really dont think it will come up that often, most of the time you have at least 2 of one type.

[faust]

Am I missing something with Moose? Can't you get +$6 any time you play it? Or two of whatever the best action is? Buying Moose is like buying two of whatever card is best in the kingdom, for $5. How is that even close to realistic?

Yeah the new moose should look like this.

Moose
(Action) $5
Name a card from the supply that is equal or lesser value then moose.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase if either of those cards are in play or your hand, return them to the supply.

If I just gain two Silver this is still almost strictly better than Harvest or Merchant Ship. And this can do much better than Silver most of the time.

[BraveBear]

Am I missing something with Moose? Can't you get +$6 any time you play it? Or two of whatever the best action is? Buying Moose is like buying two of whatever card is best in the kingdom, for $5. How is that even close to realistic?

Yeah the new moose should look like this.

Moose
(Action) $5
Name a card from the supply that is equal or lesser value then moose.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase if either of those cards are in play or your hand, return them to the supply.

If I just gain two Silver this is still almost strictly better than Harvest or Merchant Ship. And this can do much better than Silver most of the time.

Well that can be fixed with the price point bumped to $6 dollars.  But the card doesn't seem majorly broken anymore?

[faust]

Am I missing something with Moose? Can't you get +$6 any time you play it? Or two of whatever the best action is? Buying Moose is like buying two of whatever card is best in the kingdom, for $5. How is that even close to realistic?

Yeah the new moose should look like this.

Moose
(Action) $5
Name a card from the supply that is equal or lesser value then moose.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase if either of those cards are in play or your hand, return them to the supply.

If I just gain two Silver this is still almost strictly better than Harvest or Merchant Ship. And this can do much better than Silver most of the time.

Well that can be fixed with the price point bumped to $6 dollars.  But the card doesn't seem majorly broken anymore?

I guess the main problem is that it's as good as two kingdom treasure of the same price point. If you restrict it so that it is only able to gain actions, it might be balanced (but I think it should still only be able to gain card worth less than itself. It's kind of stupid if you use Moose to gain 2 Moose, which you then use to.. you get the idea).

[TheOthin]

I don't think Moose is salvageable. I guess maybe you could completely overhaul it and turn it into a Treasure card with a Band of Misfits effect but it wouldn't have much point outside of games with Kingdom Treasures or Potions.

[eHalcyon]

Please try to follow the official cards as much as possible.  Look up similar cards to figure out how to word things.  At the very least, keep the vanilla bonuses in the correct order.  Duck Call looks like a village at first glance because it's supposed to be cards first, then actions.  It's actually a Lab variant.

Apologies if some of these points have already been made.  I'm not reading others' comments yet.

Duck Call
(Action) $2
+ 1 action
+ 2 cards
Choose one: Discard 2 cards or put a card on the top of your deck

Donald X once tested a sifting lab variant, "+2 cards, +1 action; Discard a card".  It was too strong for $4, but was almost always weaker than Lab because of the discard.  Duck Call is very similar to the sifting lab.  In context, top-decking is worse than discarding (because multiple Duck Calls will draw the top-decked card) but you do have the additional option of discarding 2 cards, which is sometimes no worse than discarding 1 depending on what's in your hand.  Duck Call is probably about as strong as the sifting lab, and therefore too strong for $2.  I'd just scrap it outright, but if you are attached to it you pretty much have to test it at no less than $4.

Camouflage
(Action) $2
+ 2 actions
You may choose a treasure card from your hand and play it immediately

I like it.  It's a necropolis on many boards, but sometimes it has neat combos.  You point out draw-to-X, trashing and Tactician.  I don't know what trashing combos you mean (only thing I can think of is saving more cards from Count, which is not usually a concern anyway) but you miss out on the most interesting combo category -- alt treasures.  Getting Quarry or Royal Seal in play during the action phase has some fun interactions; you could play Contraband even earlier to keep opponents guessing; you could HoP could gain a card that can be drawn right after, and playing Diadem or Philosopher's Stone earlier means you could get more value out of them and still get to use your extra actions or draw the rest of your deck.  Not all of those combos are good combos, but they are interesting.

Fur Hat
(Action/Attack) $3
+ 1 action
+ 1 card
You may gain a copper.  If you do so, each player gains a curse

Not sure how it would work out, but my gut says that it would not be fun to play.  Cantrip cursing is strong enough that I think I'd have to go for it even with the Copper gain.  And then everyone's deck becomes terrible.  Even more than Sea Hag, I think this card is just auto-slog, and that's not fun to me.  At the very least, I think this should be a $4 card to prevent opening with two of them.

Deer
(Reaction/Victory) $3
Worth 2 VP
_________________________________________________
When one of your cards is trashed you may discard this.  If you do +2 actions, +2 cards

Doesn't make sense if you trigger it outside of your own turn.

Scope
(Action)  $3
Look at the top 2 cards of you deck.  You may put one of them back into the supply. Discard the rest.  + 1 action for each card you discard this way.

Too similar to Lookout.  Less interesting than Lookout because it's perfectly safe.  This is just easy "trashing" early game and Necropolis otherwise.

Knife
(Action/Attack) $4
+$2
Each other player with 4 or more cards discards 2 cards of the same type.
If the type is Curse/Ruin the player draws 3 cards, Treasure or Action draws 1 card

Needs accountability clause.  What happens if every card is a different type?  It's rare, but possible (e.g. Gold, Province, Smithy, Hovel, Curse), and it would be more common with 4 card hands (with Minion, or with the second play of Knife).  Do they still have to discard 1?  Presumably not.

The discard portion is stronger than Militia, but that's somewhat mitigated by the card draw afterwards. 

Do you realize how hilariously terrible this is with Ruins though?  It would let the other player draw 4 cards, not just 3, because Ruins are Actions too.

Hunting Camp
(Action ) $4
+2 actions
You may trash a card from your hand.
_______________________________________________
While this is in play if buy a Victory card gain a copper

Trashing Necropolis is decent for engines, but the penalty ranges from harsh to manageable to meaningless depending on the payloads and other engine components available.  Worth testing.

Rifle
(Action) $5
+3 cards
Choose one : +1 Coin Token or +1 VP token

Not sure, but it seems undercosted to me.  Even if it only gave +1 Coin Token, I'd guess that's a $6 card.  The choice of a VP token instead is just icing.

Moose
(Action) $5
+1 action
Name a card from the supply.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase put both those cards back into the supply.

I'm pretty sure that lose track prevents you from putting the cards back into the supply in the clean-up phase.  Even if it didn't, this card is still absolutely ridiculous.  Play a Moose to gain two more Mooses.  Play one of the new Mooses to gain 2 KC.  KC-KC-Moose to gain more Mooses, more KC, then loads of other things and mega-turn off of a single card.

Shooting Trophy
(Treasure) $5
+$0
When you buy a victory card gain another copy of it putting it on top of your deck.

I think this would be too powerful, but I'm not sure.

[eHalcyon]

Am I missing something with Moose? Can't you get +$6 any time you play it? Or two of whatever the best action is? Buying Moose is like buying two of whatever card is best in the kingdom, for $5. How is that even close to realistic?

Yeah the new moose should look like this.

Moose
(Action) $5
Name a card from the supply that is equal or lesser value then moose.  Gain two copies of that card putting them into your hand.  During your clean up phase if either of those cards are in play or your hand, return them to the supply.

If I just gain two Silver this is still almost strictly better than Harvest or Merchant Ship. And this can do much better than Silver most of the time.

Well that can be fixed with the price point bumped to $6 dollars.  But the card doesn't seem majorly broken anymore?

I guess the main problem is that it's as good as two kingdom treasure of the same price point. If you restrict it so that it is only able to gain actions, it might be balanced (but I think it should still only be able to gain card worth less than itself. It's kind of stupid if you use Moose to gain 2 Moose, which you then use to.. you get the idea).

The new versions don't really fix it.  Bumping the price to $6 opens up the option to gain key $5 cards.  Restricting to action cards doesn't rule out all the various action cards that would usually be superior to Silver anyway.  And it is still difficult to track which cards would get returned and which would not.  There are even accountability issues with it, even if you specifically say to look for the cards in play:

I play Village, Moose to gain two Conspirators.  I play two Conspirators and Vault, discarding everything.  Now it is clean-up phase, but I don't have to return these two Conspirators because I actually used Vault to discard the ones that I gained.  The two that I played were already in my hand before I played Moose.  Really, it's true.  But the rules say you're not allowed to look through my discard to check.  Just trust me on this.

[AJD]

Duck Call
(Action) $2
+ 1 action
+ 2 cards
Choose one: Discard 2 cards or put a card on the top of your deck

Donald X once tested a sifting lab variant, "+2 cards, +1 action; Discard a card".  It was too strong for $4, but was almost always weaker than Lab because of the discard.  Duck Call is very similar to the sifting lab.  In context, top-decking is worse than discarding (because multiple Duck Calls will draw the top-decked card) but you do have the additional option of discarding 2 cards, which is sometimes no worse than discarding 1 depending on what's in your hand.  Duck Call is probably about as strong as the sifting lab, and therefore too strong for $2.  I'd just scrap it outright, but if you are attached to it you pretty much have to test it at no less than $4.

Hm, really? The two-card sifting alone is almost certainly too weak for $2; does the top-decking option really push that all the way up to 4?

[eHalcyon]

Duck Call
(Action) $2
+ 1 action
+ 2 cards
Choose one: Discard 2 cards or put a card on the top of your deck

Donald X once tested a sifting lab variant, "+2 cards, +1 action; Discard a card".  It was too strong for $4, but was almost always weaker than Lab because of the discard.  Duck Call is very similar to the sifting lab.  In context, top-decking is worse than discarding (because multiple Duck Calls will draw the top-decked card) but you do have the additional option of discarding 2 cards, which is sometimes no worse than discarding 1 depending on what's in your hand.  Duck Call is probably about as strong as the sifting lab, and therefore too strong for $2.  I'd just scrap it outright, but if you are attached to it you pretty much have to test it at no less than $4.

Hm, really? The two-card sifting alone is almost certainly too weak for $2; does the top-decking option really push that all the way up to 4?

You may be misunderstanding.  Donald tested this:

Sifting Laboratory
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Discard a card.

This was too strong for $4, and obviously too weak for $5 (compared to Laboratory) and thus it was scrapped.  I'm saying that Duck Call is very comparable to the sifting lab, and is probably also too strong for $4 and too weak for $5.  I do think that the top-decking is weaker than just discarding, in the context of a drawing card (it slows down multiple plays of the card), so it might work at $4.  The discard option bumps it back up slightly.

Edit:

It's from the Secret History of the Dark Ages cards (and possibly elsewhere, but this was the first source I found):

There was also a similar card here later, "+2 Cards +1 Action, discard a card," for $4, which ended up being too good.

[AJD]

Duck Call
(Action) $2
+ 1 action
+ 2 cards
Choose one: Discard 2 cards or put a card on the top of your deck

Donald X once tested a sifting lab variant, "+2 cards, +1 action; Discard a card".  It was too strong for $4, but was almost always weaker than Lab because of the discard.  Duck Call is very similar to the sifting lab.  In context, top-decking is worse than discarding (because multiple Duck Calls will draw the top-decked card) but you do have the additional option of discarding 2 cards, which is sometimes no worse than discarding 1 depending on what's in your hand.  Duck Call is probably about as strong as the sifting lab, and therefore too strong for $2.  I'd just scrap it outright, but if you are attached to it you pretty much have to test it at no less than $4.

Hm, really? The two-card sifting alone is almost certainly too weak for $2; does the top-decking option really push that all the way up to 4?

You may be misunderstanding.

I don't think I'm misunderstanding. I just think top-decking in this context is a lot weaker than discarding, and you seem to think it's only a bit weaker than discarding.

[eHalcyon]

Duck Call
(Action) $2
+ 1 action
+ 2 cards
Choose one: Discard 2 cards or put a card on the top of your deck

Donald X once tested a sifting lab variant, "+2 cards, +1 action; Discard a card".  It was too strong for $4, but was almost always weaker than Lab because of the discard.  Duck Call is very similar to the sifting lab.  In context, top-decking is worse than discarding (because multiple Duck Calls will draw the top-decked card) but you do have the additional option of discarding 2 cards, which is sometimes no worse than discarding 1 depending on what's in your hand.  Duck Call is probably about as strong as the sifting lab, and therefore too strong for $2.  I'd just scrap it outright, but if you are attached to it you pretty much have to test it at no less than $4.

Hm, really? The two-card sifting alone is almost certainly too weak for $2; does the top-decking option really push that all the way up to 4?

You may be misunderstanding.

I don't think I'm misunderstanding. I just think top-decking in this context is a lot weaker than discarding, and you seem to think it's only a bit weaker than discarding.

Ah, OK.  Yeah, I just don't think the top-decking with the option of discarding 2 would work out to be that much worse.  Sometimes it's helpful when you can save a card you don't need now for the next turn.  But maybe I was a bit too hasty in saying that it had to be tested at $4.

[Asper]

Well, without the topdecking option it's (almost) strictly worse than Warehouse but still compares a bit favourably with Cellar (except when you have more than 2 junk cards in your hand when playing Cellar). The topdecking option is what elevates this above 2$ for sure. I'm not sold on whether it's actually worth more than 3$, though - especially when compared to Warehouse (allthough Warehouse of course is a pretty decent 3$).

Pricing aside, i like the idea of the card, bear person.

[GendoIkari]

I dunno if Deer is good overall, but I don't see any problems with the possibility of getting +2 cards, +2 actions when it's not your turn. It seems clear to me that the +2 actions simply go to waste. A FAQ could clarify this, but I think the official rules would already make it clear... you start your turn with 1 action, so any actions you earned before the start of your turn would go to waste.. just like actions that you earned on your last turn but didn't use.

[GendoIkari]

Yes to your Knife question, I really dont think it will come up that often, most of the time you have at least 2 of one type.

It would be extremely rare to not have at least 2 of a type. If you have 5 cards in hand, it's already impossible unless one of those 5 cards in Hovel; as every card is either Treasure, Victory, Action, or Curse. Anyway, it's probably better to only attack players with 5 or more, not 4 or more. Otherwise, it's really harsh to play Knife after playing either Minion or Urchin (or Pillage).

[GendoIkari]

I don't think Moose is savable... but if it were, the lose track rule could be dealt with like this:

"Name a card (maybe name a card costing less than Moose, etc). Gain 2 copies of the named card, putting them into your hand. During your cleanup phase this turn, return 2 copies of the named card to the supply from in play or from your hand."

So you aren't trying to return the exact same cards... you just have to return 2 copies of it, whether you get them from in play or from your hand. If you use it on one-shots, or discard the cards to Vault, etc, then they aren't returned to the supply. There's still an accountability issue, which could be fixed with a "reveal your hand" clause.

[TheOthin]

Horse Traders offered a way to make a Reaction get paused until your turn; couldn't Deer work the same way?

[eHalcyon]

Horse Traders offered a way to make a Reaction get paused until your turn; couldn't Deer work the same way?

If you use the Horse Traders wording, it wouldn't produce the intended result when you trigger it on your own turn.  If you write it to account for both possibilities, it's probably getting too complicated for what it is.