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[eHalcyon]

Mechanics suggestion to the Loyalty Mat: limit the number of cards that you can take from the Loyalty Mat at the beginning of your turn (to 1 or 2), and add a card effect that lets you take a card from the Loyalty Mat.

Yes, this was at the top of my list of suggested changes (which was, to be fair, buried inside a very long post).  For discussion purposes, here it is again:

I think the way to salvage it is to add some restrictions.  Some ideas:

- You may only take cards from the mat for free once per turn.  You could take more by playing a card that specifically allows you to grab cards from the mat.
- You have to discard a card of the same type to get one from the mat.  This makes it tougher to line up mega-turn combos and also riskier to stash lots of VP on the mat.
- Restrict the mat so that it can only hold a maximum of X cards.
- When you take cards from the mat, they go on top of your deck instead of into your hand.  This still lets you set stuff up, but it's not as easy.

[AJD]

If someone gets hit by Excommunication when they have a Curse in their hand, they end up with one fewer Curse in their hand and one more Curse in their discard pile. That's actually about the same direct impact Mountebank has in that scenario, with the disadvantages of draining the Curse pile and in fact helping them rather than hurting them once the Curse pile is out.

If it hits them when they don't have a Curse in hand, it still makes their deck worse, but by a much smaller amount, probably just turning a Copper or Estate into a Curse. And it also produces less money.

It's kind of similar to Mountebank when they are blocked, but why does that matter?  When you don't have a Curse in hand, Excommunication is still very weak because you can probably trash some other junk card, whereas with Mountebank you get hit with TWO junk cards.  That's a world of difference there.

Yeah that's the thing, it's basically not even a junking attack so much as a make-existing-junk-into-worse-junk attack. Kinda like an anti-Rats.

…You mean kind of like a Swindler?

What if, like Swindler, it just had +$2 instead of +$1? How does it compare to Swindler in that case?

Swindler advantages: can trash non-junk cards
Swindler disadvantages: can distribute cards better than Curse; never increases deck size

Excommunication advantages: always either decreases handsize or increases deck size, always gives Curse
Excommunication disadvantages: only trashes junk cards

(Also, "Excommunication" isn't a great name for an Attack card; the names of Attack cards are almost always people. The only exceptions are Scrying Pool, which had the Attack type added late in development; Pillage, which is a one-shot and gets a name based on that; and Familiar, which refers to a demon rather than a human but is in the same ballpark.)

[AJD]

also the word is Major-domo

[JacquesTheBard]

Mechanics suggestion to the Loyalty Mat: limit the number of cards that you can take from the Loyalty Mat at the beginning of your turn (to 1 or 2), and add a card effect that lets you take a card from the Loyalty Mat.

Hadn't thought of that. I'm not sure if I'll go with it or not, and most of the Loyalty Mat cards will be changed in some way, but that is an intriguing prospect.

I'd heard the phrase Major-domo before, but it sounds incorrect with my knowledge of Latin. Are you sure?

[AJD]

I'd heard the phrase Major-domo before, but it sounds incorrect with my knowledge of Latin. Are you sure?

Yes.

It is incorrect with your knowledge of Latin; major-domo is an English word. (It's derived from Latin, via Italian, but it's not a Latin phrase itself.)

[JacquesTheBard]

Okay. I'll adjust the name. You learn something new every day!

I'm keeping Excommunication, though. Attacks may generally be people, but naming conventions are just that: conventions. Villages don't really have to have "village" in the name, or even be communities (Wandering Minstrel). Thanks for your input, though!

[luser]

(Also, "Excommunication" isn't a great name for an Attack card; the names of Attack cards are almost always people. The only exceptions are Scrying Pool, which had the Attack type added late in development; Pillage, which is a one-shot and gets a name based on that; and Familiar, which refers to a demon rather than a human but is in the same ballpark.)

Like Mr. Embargo?

[eHalcyon]

(Also, "Excommunication" isn't a great name for an Attack card; the names of Attack cards are almost always people. The only exceptions are Scrying Pool, which had the Attack type added late in development; Pillage, which is a one-shot and gets a name based on that; and Familiar, which refers to a demon rather than a human but is in the same ballpark.)

Like Mr. Embargo?

Are you saying that Embargo is an attack?

[LastFootnote]

Either way, Embargo is also a one-shot, and those tend to have verb- or event-based names.

[Fragasnap]

All three of these cards do not use your Loyalty Mat concept or have really any sort of mechanism that ties them together. If you want to make a fan expansion, try to tie every card to one or two mechanical concepts: it will help the cards meld together into a cohesive and memorable set.

I'll have to firmly disagree, making cards fit the theme of your set is nowhere near as important as making good cards. In official expansions, there are usually between a half and two third cards that don't relate to the set theme in any way.

It is important to make good cards. However, when you say "I am making a fan expansion" you have added a caveat that you must make good cards that come together to make a functioning expansion.
An expansion needs a distribution of drawing cards, splitter cards, and gaining cards, a number of Attacks (all over a reasonable cost distribution), and a defining mechanism. It is hard to make a good, memorable expansion, but really ask, why is Fealty an expansion that is worth playing with instead of Enterprise, Reverence, Enlightenment, Hunting, Progress, or Pandemonium (especially considering the effort necessary to make printouts)? I am sure there are plenty of good cards in most people's fan expansions, but what don't they have that this expansion does? It is hard to put together good cards that fit with a mechanical theme that come together to make playable Kingdoms, but creativity flourishes in that limitation. Push yourself to make good cards that fit into your expansion.
I am not saying that good cards aren't worth making, I'm asking what is the point in slapping together a bunch of random good cards and calling it an expansion? Expansions are more than a collection of good cards.

[silverspawn]

All three of these cards do not use your Loyalty Mat concept or have really any sort of mechanism that ties them together. If you want to make a fan expansion, try to tie every card to one or two mechanical concepts: it will help the cards meld together into a cohesive and memorable set.

I'll have to firmly disagree, making cards fit the theme of your set is nowhere near as important as making good cards. In official expansions, there are usually between a half and two third cards that don't relate to the set theme in any way.

It is important to make good cards. However, when you say "I am making a fan expansion" you have added a caveat that you must make good cards that come together to make a functioning expansion.
An expansion needs a distribution of drawing cards, splitter cards, and gaining cards, a number of Attacks (all over a reasonable cost distribution), and a defining mechanism. It is hard to make a good, memorable expansion, but really ask, why is Fealty an expansion that is worth playing with instead of Enterprise, Reverence, Enlightenment, Hunting, Progress, or Pandemonium (especially considering the effort necessary to make printouts)? I am sure there are plenty of good cards in most people's fan expansions, but what don't they have that this expansion does? It is hard to put together good cards that fit with a mechanical theme that come together to make playable Kingdoms, but creativity flourishes in that limitation. Push yourself to make good cards that fit into your expansion.
I am not saying that good cards aren't worth making, I'm asking what is the point in slapping together a bunch of random good cards and calling it an expansion? Expansions are more than a collection of good cards.

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you said, however you partly miss my point. I didn't say having a balance of cards is not important - it is - I said having cards fit the theme is not important, which is the "mechanism" in your post. These are two different things and they don't have to be proportional at all. I could probably come up with a bunch of throne room variants that all fit the theme of my set perfectly, but throwing all of them in one set wouldn't be good. Likewise, hinterlands doesn't really have a theme (at least not a strong one), but it's still a good set. balance >> theme.

[Awaclus]

Likewise, hinterlands doesn't really have a theme (at least not a strong one), but it's still a good set.

It does have a theme: on-buy/on-gain. Border Village does stuff when you gain it. Cache does stuff when you gain it. Duchess does stuff when you gain a Duchy. Embassy does stuff when you gain it. Farmland does stuff when you buy it. Fool's Gold does stuff when your opponent gains a Province. Haggler does stuff when you buy a card while it's in play. Ill-Gotten Gains does stuff when you gain it. Inn does stuff when you gain it. Mandarin does stuff when you gain it. Noble Brigand does stuff when you buy it. Nomad Camp does stuff when you gain it. Trader does stuff when you gain another card. That's 14/25 cards on-theme. Intrigue has two themes, but only 13/25 cards are on-theme. Seaside has 16/26 cards on-theme. The only expansion with a significantly stronger theme is Prosperity.

[eHalcyon]

So you've got like 40% of each set that's just good cards, not on theme.  That's silverspawn's point. Not every card has to be on theme. 

[Asper]

I think there are a bunch of reasons why official Dominion expansions have a theme:

One is that you can grasp new functionalities and/or strategies more quickly. For Hinterlands, if you get "on-gain" once, you immediately get the point of several cards in the box. Same goes for Durations, Treasures that do something, On-Trash, Dual-Type-Victories, etc... It's not as if every box contained 15 different new mechanics, which we would have if cards were just randomly distributed.
Also it gives expansions a memorable flavour, something you connect to. This makes it easier to decide which expansion you like to buy next. If i want to have expensive and strong cards, i buy Prosperity, but if i want complex cards, i buy Dark Ages.  It keeps expansions from being just as a package of random cards.
A last one is that if a mechanic needs additional pieces, splitting it up would make those pieces necessary in several expansions. It's why there's few hope for Potion costs, Looters, +VP cards etc in the new expansion.

It's worth noting that most of these reasons apply to putting several cards with one theme in a single expansion as opposed to distributing them randomly over several expansions. In other words, they apply to somebody who allready created a lot of cards and now just has to see how to split them up. If you don't have enough cards for two sets, i see no reason to make theme dictate what you do. Theme can be an inspiration to try something, but don't try too much to force another card that uses mechanic X in. If at some point you do find yourself with a lot of cards you feel confident with, you can still split them apart according o theme.

Edit: Wrote peaces instead of pieces...

[GendoIkari]

Not every card has to be on theme.

They can't all be the most on-theme card ever.

[qmech]

One is that you can grasp new functionalities and/or strategies more quickly. For Hinterlands, if you get "on-gain" once, you immediately get the point of several cards in the box. Same goes for Durations, Treasures that do something, On-Trash, Dual-Type-Victories, etc... It's not as if every box contained 15 different new mechanics, which we would have if cards were just randomly distributed.

The first expansion would have 15 new mechanics.  The rest of the expansions would be Scout variant, Mine variant, Thief variant, Tournament...