Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 19  All

Author Topic: Prismata  (Read 133580 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

qmech

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1918
  • Shuffle iT Username: qmech
  • What year is it?
  • Respect: +2320
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #350 on: March 15, 2015, 01:14:13 pm »
+2

http://play.prismata.net/?r=0bXHM-FjbDG

Here's one for those who like to see lots of units on the board.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #351 on: March 15, 2015, 01:59:36 pm »
0

http://play.prismata.net/?r=0bXHM-FjbDG

Here's one for those who like to see lots of units on the board.

Dat Comet Tho.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #352 on: March 18, 2015, 03:06:30 am »
+1

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #353 on: March 19, 2015, 10:43:51 pm »
+2

new unit!



It produces energy, so it's like 2 drones if you rebuy the drone you consume (although I think you'll deplete the pile pretty quickly), which isn't great, so it's supposedly meant for when you don't want to buy drones anymore.

If using it allows you to buy defense rather than leave drones to block in the end game, it's most likely worth it.

(there'll be 3 other units released next weekend)

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #354 on: March 20, 2015, 07:07:08 pm »
0

new unit!

(Image)

It produces energy, so it's like 2 drones if you rebuy the drone you consume (although I think you'll deplete the pile pretty quickly), which isn't great, so it's supposedly meant for when you don't want to buy drones anymore.

If using it allows you to buy defense rather than leave drones to block in the end game, it's most likely worth it.

(there'll be 3 other units released next weekend)
Strictly looking at gold, Ebb turbine takes 2 turns to yield a profit if you don't replace the drones, and continues to do so until the 5th consecutive click, at which point you earn 9 gold more than you'd have if you bought another non-economy unit (say, steelsplitter). The gold you earn across the turns is -6+5+4+3+2+1+0+(-1)+(-2)+...  (You have 1 less drone each time you click the turbine, so the revenue each turn decreases.

So yeah it generates gold profit from turns 2 to 5 after buying it, then you start losing profit at turn 7 and end up with a gold defecit by turn 10.

This turbine looks good to get when you're approaching the critical game-deciding turn, but the main cost is the initial investment of 6EB and the loss of blockers in the form of drones.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 07:08:28 pm by markusin »
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #355 on: March 20, 2015, 07:21:57 pm »
+1

It also lets you reach the expensive Blues earlier (mainly Odin). Or transform a drone into a wall when you are cash-strapped.

Note that you can always use it as a double drone (it has the same gold cost), as long as you can keep replacing those drones, so if you have the spare blue, an early Ebb turbine is not going to slow down your economy.

EDIT: oh I am mostly restating what silver said, nevermind.

EDIT2: oh hey another new unit!



So a fission turret that lasts two more turns for one more coin, and that lets you pay on its last turn to destroy one enemy tech. Not sure how good its dying ability is, 4 coin is pretty expensive.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 07:38:38 pm by pacovf »
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #356 on: March 20, 2015, 08:11:12 pm »
+1

4 coins for the tech snipe ability is expensive, but so is replacing the lost tech building. The disruptive power of stalling a three blue unit or a 4 red unit can be huge. And like, preventing a player from buying a Cynestra or something right before an Iso Cronus burst is powerful too.
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #357 on: March 20, 2015, 08:17:39 pm »
0

4 coins for the tech snipe ability is expensive, but so is replacing the lost tech building.

Sure, but you are paying first, your opponent is paying second. By the time you get to use the ability, spending 4 coins on this might mean getting breached this turn.

Quote
The disruptive power of stalling a three blue unit or a 4 red unit can be huge. And like, preventing a player from buying a Cynestra or something right before an Iso Cronus burst is powerful too.

Yeah, but again, you have to see it coming 4-6 turns in advance, because otherwise it's more like paying 9G for it. It depends on how much it is going to hurt your opponent. Not sure it is going to be the right thing to do in most games.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #358 on: March 20, 2015, 08:24:35 pm »
0

4 coins for the tech snipe ability is expensive, but so is replacing the lost tech building.

Sure, but you are paying first, your opponent is paying second. By the time you get to use the ability, spending 4 coins on this might mean getting breached this turn.

Quote
The disruptive power of stalling a three blue unit or a 4 red unit can be huge. And like, preventing a player from buying a Cynestra or something right before an Iso Cronus burst is powerful too.

Yeah, but again, you have to see it coming 4-6 turns in advance, because otherwise it's more like paying 9G for it. It depends on how much it is going to hurt your opponent. Not sure it is going to be the right thing to do in most games.
The kinetic drive is doing good work for you by providing attack on Green tech more efficiently than Gauss Cannon. Then again, Fission turret isn't really OP. Still 4 gold could also just be one less tarsier, and that can be worth it if you prevent your opponent from fielding a unit that causes a breach against you next turn.
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #359 on: March 21, 2015, 04:11:44 am »
+2

I think the main thing about Kinetic Driver is that it can reduce the amount of defense your opponent can build for next turn by sniping Blastforges. From that perspective it's like sacrificing it to construct Gauss Charges (G. Symbiote), only the amount of attack depends on how much your opponent relies on walls, and which walls are in the supply. If your opponent defends with Polywalls, this can be pretty brutal, and if he doesn't buy a "reserve" Blastforge until your Driver is about to time out, it can totally be worth it to sac it one turn early. In games with super breach vulnerable units, getting a bunch of drivers might be interesting/force your opponent to overdefend.

Other than that, blocking core units seems like it can be good, especially the ones which are important to get in specific turns, like Antima, Centurion, Defense Grid, or Arka Sodara.

But even if you don't have any plans for it, simply building a Gauss Canon for 5$, attacking 6 times and then sacrificing it to snipe an Animus for 4$ seems like decent value.

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #360 on: March 21, 2015, 03:48:01 pm »
+2

So... Wincer. Yeah, 15 attack on a single unit, sounds interesting. And you only need one of each tech for it.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #361 on: March 21, 2015, 04:10:58 pm »
0

So... Wincer. Yeah, 15 attack on a single unit, sounds interesting. And you only need one of each tech for it.


...ouch. It looks like it is going to be hard to place in your build order, though. Requiring all three techs is tough. The other two units get away with it because Antima forces your opponent to go on the defensive right after, and Centurion gives you 6 defense and 2 attack right away. This does neither. It is very scary though.

Oh and last new unit:



2G is cheap, but you can't always use all 5 chill. At least you can't mass them. I think it will be fine, green means that a player going red-rush can't exploit them as easily as frostbite.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #362 on: March 21, 2015, 04:12:15 pm »
0

So... Wincer. Yeah, 15 attack on a single unit, sounds interesting. And you only need one of each tech for it.
I think the word I'm looking for is "yikes". Feels like a super Scorchilla in that you can choose not to click it if your opponent stacks Plexo Cells or something.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #363 on: March 21, 2015, 04:24:07 pm »
0

About Nivo charge, what's scary about it is that you can store up green and then buy a bunch of these for a big chill turn. Of course, Granular defense deals with a Nivo mass as effectively as it does against Frostbite. It's up to the player to anticipate Nivo Charges and build defense accordingly. It still seems pretty harsh against Energy matrix and non-prompt big blockers like Xeno Guardian.

Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #364 on: March 21, 2015, 08:46:15 pm »
0

Nivo charge could be pretty effective against things like Doomed Wall and Doomed Mech, for denying their defence on their last turn. Other freeze does this already of course but not as efficiently in general (e.g. Cryo Ray you need a bunch of to freeze one, Frostbite you need two of, Tatsu is effective at this but much more expensive to have one of)
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

BraveBear

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 107
  • Respect: +97
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #365 on: March 27, 2015, 12:38:34 pm »
0

Wincer is going to be nerfed right?  I have never beat it and not gone for it.  Has anyone had a game where they ignored it and beat it?
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #366 on: March 27, 2015, 01:52:49 pm »
+1

Wincer is going to be nerfed right?  I have never beat it and not gone for it.  Has anyone had a game where they ignored it and beat it?

no, but I had a game where my opponent ignored it and I lost. There are definite counters in the game, like Tia or venge canon. The problem is just that they don't appear in most games.

Temron and me tried to find a way to beat it with base set only (to be precise, P2 would play the DD/DD/BA/W rush and P1 would try to beat it). We didn't manage to do it, but we came kinda close and I still think it might be possible. I'm probably going to try some more before next wednesday.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12847
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Prismata
« Reply #367 on: March 28, 2015, 11:45:40 pm »
0

Man, the Wincer is stupid. Every time it's been on the board, I've been the second player and the first time it was pretty fun but after that it has gotten super boring, because it's just DD, DDC, BA, Wincer, WDT, maximize your damage for the next turn, opponent resigns every single time. Maybe if my opponents knew how to beat it it wouldn't be as boring, but it's starting to look like nobody in IX does.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 11:49:17 pm by Awaclus »
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #368 on: March 29, 2015, 05:46:16 am »
0

here are some pretty elaborate statements from a developer about it

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #369 on: March 29, 2015, 10:19:53 am »
0

here are some pretty elaborate statements from a developer about it
The conclusion seems to be that the P2 rush is beatable, but it's very difficult to do so. P1 has to play almost perfectly to beat it.

It wouldn't be the first time a unit was nerfed because the counter to the rush was really tricky. Shadowfang rushes were barely beatable in the base set when it was 6RRR, but it was very noob unfriendly to have to counter it in that form so they nerfed it.

I think they should make a campaign puzzle where the bot performs a P2 Wincer rush and you have to beat it.
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #370 on: March 29, 2015, 10:40:29 am »
0

here are some pretty elaborate statements from a developer about it
The conclusion seems to be that the P2 rush is beatable, but it's very difficult to do so. P1 has to play almost perfectly to beat it.

I don't think that's the conclusion. Elyot said "they never thought it was very good" - so it shouldn't even be hard to beat it. which is kind of contradicting with how the playerbase is reacting, but that's what he said.

The biggest thing I'm taking away from this post is that you should react with your own wincer; I had so far only tried to beat it without buying wincer entirely.

It wouldn't be the first time a unit was nerfed because the counter to the rush was really tricky. Shadowfang rushes were barely beatable in the base set when it was 6RRR, but it was very noob unfriendly to have to counter it in that form so they nerfed it.

wow, I can't believe shadowfang used to cost 6RRR. that's insane.

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #371 on: March 29, 2015, 11:28:05 am »
0

here are some pretty elaborate statements from a developer about it
The conclusion seems to be that the P2 rush is beatable, but it's very difficult to do so. P1 has to play almost perfectly to beat it.

I don't think that's the conclusion. Elyot said "they never thought it was very good" - so it shouldn't even be hard to beat it. which is kind of contradicting with how the playerbase is reacting, but that's what he said.

The biggest thing I'm taking away from this post is that you should react with your own wincer; I had so far only tried to beat it without buying wincer entirely.

I was basing this on these comments from the Reddit page.

"Base Set + Wincer is insta-win for Player 2: Definitely no.
Base Set + Wincer + Frostbite is insta-win for Player 2: Definitely no.
P2's Wincer rush (DD/DDC/AB/D1) is often playable/strong: Agreed.
P2's Wincer Opening threat forces P1 to DDE on turn 2: In some sets, yes.
P2's Wincer Opening is very very punishing (p1 insta-loses if a mistake is made): In many sets, yes."

There's also a whole video where they explain why they nerfed Shadowfang:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=puZ7kcMDZYA
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 11:31:31 am by markusin »
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #372 on: March 30, 2015, 04:07:58 pm »
0

So, I think this build from Arkanishu is solid: http://play.prismata.net/?r=lcVnv-qxlg7

That should reliably beat Wincer with no support - though, I also agree with the concede that custom units often help the rush rather than countering it.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3189
    • View Profile
Re: Prismata
« Reply #373 on: April 01, 2015, 05:16:38 am »
0



looks like the dev's released 10 units as an april's joke. However, one of them is actually legit and will stay after today -the question is just which

I'm pretty sure it's not that one

click here to view them all

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12847
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Prismata
« Reply #374 on: April 01, 2015, 06:05:23 am »
0



looks like the dev's released 10 units as an april's joke. However, one of them is actually legit and will stay after today -the question is just which

I'm pretty sure it's not that one

click here to view them all

I hope it's The Gift, it's super fun.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 19  All
 

Page created in 0.056 seconds with 21 queries.