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Author Topic: Prismata  (Read 133576 times)

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pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #325 on: February 19, 2015, 08:31:18 am »
+2

New units:



(supply 1)



(supply 4)



(supply 10)

I love the art of these, especially the rectifier.

Arka Sodara seems like it's going to lead to very difficult decisions. The other two seem tricky too.
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liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #326 on: February 19, 2015, 08:37:10 am »
+8

Quote
Fragile: Does not heal
At the start of your turn, heal 2

Riiiiiight.
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markusin

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #327 on: February 19, 2015, 08:43:55 am »
0

"Fragile (does not heal)
At the start of your turn, heal <3 2"
Lol. Ninja'd though.


I like how Redeemer uses the Cluster Bolt drawback without being as instantly massable as Bolt.

Mahar is supply 10, and I'm thinking they'll become really good in multiples, where they swap between which one blocks. Otherwise, you can skip a wall or something every few turns at the cost of attack. Interesting.

Arka Sodara, wow needing 7 attack to buy it is a huge offensive slowdown. It has 7 toughness, so hey it should be worth it sometimes.
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silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #328 on: February 19, 2015, 09:04:09 am »
0

I'm slightly confused about the healing mechanic. Do you only heal up to the original hp? Or can you go above 5?

pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #329 on: February 19, 2015, 10:05:48 am »
0

I doubt it can go above 5. If it could, this wouldn't be "get two Rectifiers and get 4 absorb", it would be "get N rectifiers and get 2N absorb", which is absolutely ridiculous.

Compare to sentinel; sentinel is an effective 1 attack per turn and 1 absorb per turn, but you can only do that 4 times; rectifier would be 2 attack per turn (ok, for all rectifiers but one) and 2 absorb per turn, forever, as long as you cycle the rectifier that defends.

A unit that can increase its health total above its starting health could be interesting, but this is not that unit.
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Awaclus

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #330 on: February 20, 2015, 01:42:45 pm »
0

I really like both Rectifier and Redeemer. Arka Sodara didn't get bought in the one game I played with it, so I don't know about it yet, but it seems pretty cool too.
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pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #331 on: February 20, 2015, 06:51:24 pm »
+1

silverspawn is in the top 10.

EDIT: looks like it was a temporary ranking bug. So, "only" top 50. Still,

« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 07:30:37 pm by pacovf »
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Re: Prismata
« Reply #332 on: February 20, 2015, 08:10:09 pm »
0

silverspawn is in the top 10.

EDIT: looks like it was a temporary ranking bug. So, "only" top 50.

As in, the same Silverspawn who insisted on Lookout being one of the best cards when he first joined here? That's... quite impressive to say the least. I have to wonder if he's better at Dominion as well than I anticipated then.

Edit: Okay so Silverspawn is 31st on the Isotropish leaderboard. When did this guy get so good at Dominion?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 08:12:07 pm by Tables »
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #333 on: February 20, 2015, 08:21:13 pm »
0

silverspawn is in the top 10.

EDIT: looks like it was a temporary ranking bug. So, "only" top 50.

As in, the same Silverspawn who insisted on Lookout being one of the best cards when he first joined here? That's... quite impressive to say the least. I have to wonder if he's better at Dominion as well than I anticipated then.

Edit: Okay so Silverspawn is 31st on the Isotropish leaderboard. When did this guy get so good at Dominion?
He was in A division in the league. Then he quit because preferred prismata to dominion.
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Re: Prismata
« Reply #334 on: February 21, 2015, 02:18:40 am »
+1

silverspawn is in the top 10.

EDIT: looks like it was a temporary ranking bug. So, "only" top 50.

As in, the same Silverspawn who insisted on Lookout being one of the best cards when he first joined here? That's... quite impressive to say the least. I have to wonder if he's better at Dominion as well than I anticipated then.

Edit: Okay so Silverspawn is 31st on the Isotropish leaderboard. When did this guy get so good at Dominion?

Presumably after a ton of practice, and actually reading advice rather than ignoring advice/evidence.  He's changed quite a bit since that Lookout thing.
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silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #335 on: February 21, 2015, 05:42:21 am »
0

silverspawn is in the top 10.

EDIT: looks like it was a temporary ranking bug. So, "only" top 50.

As in, the same Silverspawn who insisted on Lookout being one of the best cards when he first joined here? That's... quite impressive to say the least. I have to wonder if he's better at Dominion as well than I anticipated then.

Edit: Okay so Silverspawn is 31st on the Isotropish leaderboard. When did this guy get so good at Dominion?

Presumably after a ton of practice, and actually reading advice rather than ignoring advice/evidence.  He's changed quite a bit since that Lookout thing.

thanks! although, to say the truth, I almost never took in any advice from other players, neither in dominion nor in prismata. it's just not my style of learning. but I do think about the games constantly. and yeah, lots of practice.

Awaclus

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #336 on: February 21, 2015, 05:55:01 am »
0

Edit: Okay so Silverspawn is 31st on the Isotropish leaderboard. When did this guy get so good at Dominion?

He's been good at Dominion for quite a while already.
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Re: Prismata
« Reply #337 on: February 21, 2015, 06:49:21 am »
0

Apparently so.
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But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Awaclus

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #338 on: February 25, 2015, 04:44:34 pm »
0

http://play.prismata.net/?r=KqjJP-P6+vv

How did I lose this game? Do you not have to destroy frontline units to win?
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amalloy

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #339 on: February 25, 2015, 04:55:19 pm »
+3

http://play.prismata.net/?r=KqjJP-P6+vv

How did I lose this game? Do you not have to destroy frontline units to win?

Iceblades are really bad against mass green, because their main draw is the massive freeze: $7BR for one damage is not efficient at all. If your opponent's damage has 5HP, they can afford to allow breaches. Especially with Gauss Fabricator, they can keep building damage even if you breach their Drones.

The other draw of mass Iceblades is that they have a ton of health, so it takes a lot of investment from your opponent to kill any of your damage. Mixing in a Militia and a couple Tarsiers weakens the Iceblade all-in, because now you have to defend these squishy units as well, instead of relying on the sturdy Iceblades to fend for themselves.

Of course, there are other ways to play Iceblade than to just rush for a million of them, but in this game it looked like your plan was to rush for a million of them, so I think the Tarsier/Militia were wrong, and your opponent's commitment to green should tell you that Iceblades won't work anyway. On turn 5, when he buys conduits 2 and 3, I would give up on the Iceblade plan and just try to push through with Tarsiers, which is generally enough pressure to demolish a Gauss Fabricator rush. Certainly every Iceblade after the first should have been something else (Tarsier+Drone? Shredder+whatever?), because your opponent is clearly never building any more defense, so you are getting terrible value for your money.
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Awaclus

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #340 on: February 25, 2015, 05:24:19 pm »
0

http://play.prismata.net/?r=KqjJP-P6+vv

How did I lose this game? Do you not have to destroy frontline units to win?

Iceblades are really bad against mass green, because their main draw is the massive freeze: $7BR for one damage is not efficient at all. If your opponent's damage has 5HP, they can afford to allow breaches. Especially with Gauss Fabricator, they can keep building damage even if you breach their Drones.

The other draw of mass Iceblades is that they have a ton of health, so it takes a lot of investment from your opponent to kill any of your damage. Mixing in a Militia and a couple Tarsiers weakens the Iceblade all-in, because now you have to defend these squishy units as well, instead of relying on the sturdy Iceblades to fend for themselves.

Of course, there are other ways to play Iceblade than to just rush for a million of them, but in this game it looked like your plan was to rush for a million of them, so I think the Tarsier/Militia were wrong, and your opponent's commitment to green should tell you that Iceblades won't work anyway. On turn 5, when he buys conduits 2 and 3, I would give up on the Iceblade plan and just try to push through with Tarsiers, which is generally enough pressure to demolish a Gauss Fabricator rush. Certainly every Iceblade after the first should have been something else (Tarsier+Drone? Shredder+whatever?), because your opponent is clearly never building any more defense, so you are getting terrible value for your money.

I appreciate the feedback, but he only had 5 Gauss Cannons at the end and that's not enough to kill an Iceblade. I don't understand how it wasn't literally impossible for me to lose at that point, and how I ended up losing anyway.
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silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #341 on: February 25, 2015, 05:26:39 pm »
0

well, the replay doesn't show who won. Based on the last scene, you should have won for sure. If you lost, it's a bug.

You could post it on reddit

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #342 on: February 25, 2015, 05:32:42 pm »
0

http://play.prismata.net/?r=KqjJP-P6+vv

How did I lose this game? Do you not have to destroy frontline units to win?

Iceblades are really bad against mass green, because their main draw is the massive freeze: $7BR for one damage is not efficient at all. If your opponent's damage has 5HP, they can afford to allow breaches. Especially with Gauss Fabricator, they can keep building damage even if you breach their Drones.

The other draw of mass Iceblades is that they have a ton of health, so it takes a lot of investment from your opponent to kill any of your damage. Mixing in a Militia and a couple Tarsiers weakens the Iceblade all-in, because now you have to defend these squishy units as well, instead of relying on the sturdy Iceblades to fend for themselves.

Of course, there are other ways to play Iceblade than to just rush for a million of them, but in this game it looked like your plan was to rush for a million of them, so I think the Tarsier/Militia were wrong, and your opponent's commitment to green should tell you that Iceblades won't work anyway. On turn 5, when he buys conduits 2 and 3, I would give up on the Iceblade plan and just try to push through with Tarsiers, which is generally enough pressure to demolish a Gauss Fabricator rush. Certainly every Iceblade after the first should have been something else (Tarsier+Drone? Shredder+whatever?), because your opponent is clearly never building any more defense, so you are getting terrible value for your money.

I appreciate the feedback, but he only had 5 Gauss Cannons at the end and that's not enough to kill an Iceblade. I don't understand how it wasn't literally impossible for me to lose at that point, and how I ended up losing anyway.

Oh yeah, indeed at the end there you have a win locked in. I didn't watch to the end because you said you lost, and I stopped when things seemed to be going downhill. If it's a loss in your gamelog I imagine it's because you got disconnected and your opponent claimed victory.
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pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #343 on: February 26, 2015, 08:20:33 am »
0

I have trouble gauging when Redeemer is a good choice. Here's the thing, the 4 extra attack for your opponent from the gauss charges mean that you will have to buy extra defense one turn earlier. That defense is not only expensive, which means building up little or no pressure on the turn you build the defense, but it's also a huge warning sign for your opponent, who can react accordingly (eg., profit from the temporary reprieve to build up a lot of pressure, and deny your redeemer build, putting you severely behind).

If you build engineers to counter the gauss charges, the total cost of your Redeemer is 16GGB. It doesn't compare very favourably to the other 3 attack units in the game (Asteri cannon, Drake, Omega Splitter, Cynestra)

So, redeemer seems sort of a tough sell without good support (mainly Chieftains and Antima Comet, I think, or as a counter to periodic attackers). Anyone else with a differing opinion?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 08:31:49 am by pacovf »
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silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #344 on: February 26, 2015, 10:21:24 am »
0

I think Redeemer is really weak for pretty much the same reasons. If your absorb is 2+ higher than your opponents damage I think it's good, but only then. Like, if you buy xeno and your opponent reacts with xeno & and no other damage. Chieftains or doomed mechs could also work. I probably wouldn't try to combine it with Antima.

If both players play ideal, you probably never buy it.

amalloy

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #345 on: February 26, 2015, 01:03:18 pm »
0

I have trouble gauging when Redeemer is a good choice. Here's the thing, the 4 extra attack for your opponent from the gauss charges mean that you will have to buy extra defense one turn earlier. That defense is not only expensive, which means building up little or no pressure on the turn you build the defense, but it's also a huge warning sign for your opponent, who can react accordingly (eg., profit from the temporary reprieve to build up a lot of pressure, and deny your redeemer build, putting you severely behind).

If you build engineers to counter the gauss charges, the total cost of your Redeemer is 16GGB. It doesn't compare very favourably to the other 3 attack units in the game (Asteri cannon, Drake, Omega Splitter, Cynestra)

So, redeemer seems sort of a tough sell without good support (mainly Chieftains and Antima Comet, I think, or as a counter to periodic attackers). Anyone else with a differing opinion?

Redeemer is the flip side of Bloodrager: you buy it when the Gauss Charges mostly don't matter anyway, e.g. when your opponent has 0 attack and you have a Wall up or similar. If the 4 Gauss Charge are actually dealing 4 damage to you it's pretty poor value.
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pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #346 on: February 26, 2015, 01:11:44 pm »
0

Of course. It's just much rarer than the bloodrager case. You can't really rush redeemers, because there's no time to get the tech and the absorb before the opponent gets attack.
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silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #347 on: February 26, 2015, 02:31:23 pm »
0

yeah. and its non-fragileness bugs me.

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #348 on: February 26, 2015, 03:45:20 pm »
+1

Of course. It's just much rarer than the bloodrager case. You can't really rush redeemers, because there's no time to get the tech and the absorb before the opponent gets attack.

I haven't been playing much the last few weeks, but my one game with Redeemer I was able to get value out of Redeemer: I bought it when Crash's only attackers were two Deadeyes, and I had an Infusion Grid to absorb. So if he actually clicked his Deadeyes (as he wanted to) I'd get to absorb three of the Gauss Charges. Instead, he attacked with them. In a sense, of course, this was me buying Redeemer when my opponent had four damage, and therefore "bad value", but it was four damage he didn't want to use: it sorta turned my WE into DD, while also getting me 3 attack.
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Re: Prismata
« Reply #349 on: February 27, 2015, 12:11:27 pm »
0

yeah. and its non-fragileness bugs me.
Maybe the green is just used to power production, but the excess/waste gets turned into Gauss Charges...for your opponent. Hm okay I think the dev team just wanted to break the theme barriers to increase their design space in the future.

Like many green units, I'm guessing Redeemer becomes better with heavy green starts (high health). But those kinds of starts are typically tough to pull of without Trinity Drone unless it's an all in. Redeemer + 4 defense still looks relatively inefficient. And just using it for 4 toughness is even more inefficient (see Infusion Grid).

I want to like it though.
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