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Author Topic: Prismata  (Read 133555 times)

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mpsprs

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #125 on: December 17, 2014, 04:29:08 pm »
+1

I finally beat a real person!  (Mostly I've just been playing bots).  We used Deadeye's to eliminate each others drone, but I got through his defense a turn earlier afterwards, and that meant a win for me (using deadeye's attack and a few tarsiers that I picked up).

liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #126 on: December 17, 2014, 04:46:50 pm »
+1

I really like defense grid :D
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amalloy

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #127 on: December 17, 2014, 04:47:11 pm »
+1

Lost a game to the "stealth" update. Didn't notice that Deadeye costed more, and didn't notice that now it can attack.

You probably want to check the news for the other changes if you had started getting acquainted with the units.

It's only a stealth update if you don't read the subreddit, though, which I do recommend reading: there's interesting stuff there, from the devs and from everyone, and it's not so high-traffic that following it is a lot of work.
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liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #128 on: December 17, 2014, 05:02:58 pm »
+1

Pretty proud of this one: http://play.prismata.net/?r=ivZnR-aAkrr
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amalloy

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #129 on: December 17, 2014, 05:16:29 pm »
0

Pretty proud of this one: http://play.prismata.net/?r=ivZnR-aAkrr

Bahahahaha those Cluster Bolts. Well played.

One note, though: you usually don't need/want to build the Engineers on the same turn as your built your Antima: you can just float the gold and buy them next turn. And once you've made that realization, you can cut two of your Engineers for Walls, one on each turn. Wall is $5 to get 3 hit points; if you have to defend with the Engineers it costs you $6 for the same amount of health, without actually adding any damage. The $2 you save there lets you squeak out one extra Engineer compared to your actual play.
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liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #130 on: December 17, 2014, 08:26:31 pm »
0

Pretty proud of this one: http://play.prismata.net/?r=ivZnR-aAkrr

Bahahahaha those Cluster Bolts. Well played.

One note, though: you usually don't need/want to build the Engineers on the same turn as your built your Antima: you can just float the gold and buy them next turn. And once you've made that realization, you can cut two of your Engineers for Walls, one on each turn. Wall is $5 to get 3 hit points; if you have to defend with the Engineers it costs you $6 for the same amount of health, without actually adding any damage. The $2 you save there lets you squeak out one extra Engineer compared to your actual play.
Yeah I realized I misplayed the engineers when he attacked, I thought I would have enough defense but I didn't.
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AHoppy

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #131 on: December 17, 2014, 09:56:02 pm »
+3

Alright, I'm hooked on this now...  Played for a few hours then backed it.  I'm still pretty crappy at it, but I'm getting better.  I'm AHoppy over there, feel free to add me. 

My biggest concern is I take a long time to think and I'm not sure how that's going to play out against real opponents...

liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #132 on: December 17, 2014, 10:02:26 pm »
0

Alright, I'm hooked on this now...  Played for a few hours then backed it.  I'm still pretty crappy at it, but I'm getting better.  I'm AHoppy over there, feel free to add me. 

My biggest concern is I take a long time to think and I'm not sure how that's going to play out against real opponents...
Well, there's no real chat, so they won't harass you at least... if you're worried about the time control, you can set it to only match on the slowest time control, unless that's still too fast.

I got automatched with e today, had some fun games.

I really enjoyed the puzzles, especially the countdown one. However, I can't figure out how to beat the second boss... I feel like shadow fang has to be the way to go, but I can't find a build order that puts up enough defense while still building quickly.
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markusin

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #133 on: December 17, 2014, 10:50:36 pm »
0

Yeah, I haven't managed to beat the second boss either.

Oh yeah, I go by Markusin on Prismata. Feel free to add me.
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silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #134 on: December 18, 2014, 12:10:16 am »
0

I didn't beat it either.

pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #135 on: December 18, 2014, 02:35:03 pm »
+3

I managed to get to Tier IX! I'm not going to stay there very long! Who cares! Bragging rights! I cannot stop using exclamation marks, sorry!
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jonts26

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #136 on: December 18, 2014, 02:43:52 pm »
+2

I thought once you hit a tier you cant be demoted?
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liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #137 on: December 18, 2014, 02:45:47 pm »
0

I managed to get to Tier IX! I'm not going to stay there very long! Who cares! Bragging rights! I cannot stop using exclamation marks, sorry!
I thought you can't go down tiers?

PPE: ninja'd...
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pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #138 on: December 18, 2014, 03:12:52 pm »
0

Oh, that's weird. Eventually everybody will be in tier X then! So cool... Meet you there! :P
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amalloy

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #139 on: December 18, 2014, 03:15:07 pm »
0

Oh, that's weird. Eventually everybody will be in tier X then! So cool... Meet you there! :P

Well, it's supposed to be pretty hard to progress in tiers unless you are actually improving; you can't just grind out wins like you can on the Hearthstone ladder, for example. It seems a lot easier to lose points than to win them, once you are near the top of a tier, because you are mostly being matched against people ranked lower than you, so you need quite a high win percentage to sustain your tier progress.
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pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #140 on: December 18, 2014, 03:21:09 pm »
0

Oh, that's weird. Eventually everybody will be in tier X then! So cool... Meet you there! :P

Well, it's supposed to be pretty hard to progress in tiers unless you are actually improving; you can't just grind out wins like you can on the Hearthstone ladder, for example. It seems a lot easier to lose points than to win them, once you are near the top of a tier, because you are mostly being matched against people ranked lower than you, so you need quite a high win percentage to sustain your tier progress.

Key word being eventually :P
When you can only cross a barrier in one direction, even if movement is random and weighted away from the barrier, statistically everyone ends up on the other side of the barrier after a certain amount of time (granted, it might tend to infinity). Especially in this case, since you can't get arbitrarily far away from the barrier.
As long as the rate of promotions is sustained by the arrival of new players, this shouldn't be a problem. But well, it depends on both rates...
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liopoil

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #141 on: December 18, 2014, 03:23:48 pm »
+1

I hope they add more tiers above tier X as tier X gets full. But I'm still in tier IV so that's not a problem for me right now...
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 03:29:07 pm by liopoil »
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AHoppy

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #142 on: December 18, 2014, 10:46:54 pm »
0

I'm pretty proud of this game, it got pretty scary near the end
http://play.prismata.net/?r=Eo5Z3-pp1EF
I love Zemora Voidbringer

silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #143 on: December 19, 2014, 02:44:04 am »
0

if sharing games is a thing...

http://play.prismata.net/?r=RcsQ5-1nttD

though I think I should have bought Tia to hit with the comet

jonts26

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silverspawn

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #145 on: December 19, 2014, 08:59:18 am »
+1

Key word being eventually :P
When you can only cross a barrier in one direction, even if movement is random and weighted away from the barrier, statistically everyone ends up on the other side of the barrier after a certain amount of time (granted, it might tend to infinity). Especially in this case, since you can't get arbitrarily far away from the barrier.
As long as the rate of promotions is sustained by the arrival of new players, this shouldn't be a problem. But well, it depends on both rates...

that's actually not true. if you have 50% or more for a win you will reach it eventually, but if you have less than 50%, there is a real percentage chance that you will reach it, and likewise a chance that you won't.

unless there is a gap on how low you can drop (like 0% progress in this case), then you do have 100% with infinite amount of time.

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #146 on: December 19, 2014, 11:14:21 am »
0

Funded!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lunarchstudios/prismata-a-new-hybrid-game-of-pure-strategy
Sweet! I backed it with as much as I can afford at the moment. Those stretch goals look pretty awesome though! I'll bet they'll reach at least 1-2 of them. The Dev's have talked a lot about how many kickstarters tend to explode at the end with additional backing.

edit: grammar
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 11:19:43 am by Ichimaru Gin »
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #147 on: December 19, 2014, 11:16:58 am »
+1

Key word being eventually :P
When you can only cross a barrier in one direction, even if movement is random and weighted away from the barrier, statistically everyone ends up on the other side of the barrier after a certain amount of time (granted, it might tend to infinity). Especially in this case, since you can't get arbitrarily far away from the barrier.
As long as the rate of promotions is sustained by the arrival of new players, this shouldn't be a problem. But well, it depends on both rates...

that's actually not true. if you have 50% or more for a win you will reach it eventually, but if you have less than 50%, there is a real percentage chance that you will reach it, and likewise a chance that you won't.

unless there is a gap on how low you can drop (like 0% progress in this case), then you do have 100% with infinite amount of time.
If your odds of winning don't change based on your position (i.e. always 40%) then you are guaranteed to promote in the infinite time limit. This is like the Gambler's ruin only promotion is going "bankrupt". Here's a link about it: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~james/Markov/s13.pdf (on pg. 3)

This does not require a cap on how low your position can drop (or on how much money the gambler can win). There will still be a sequence of events which you are guaranteed to encounter in the infinite time limit that will lead to promotion (or bankruptcy). edit: I can't read, what I said above is incorrect.

After they talk about the gambler's ruin there's an example where you aren't guaranteed to end up in the absorbing state (which for us is promotion), it requires the probabilities to change based on your position. I didn't look at it closely but I'm pretty sure it will require (at some positions) your odds of winning to decrease the further you go down in position which doesn't seem like a very good model.

My guess is that to escape the absorbing state you need to have accelerating probabilities away from that state. I can't imagine having "stable" regions away from the absorbing state will cut it as infinite time will get you there for sure. I don't really know anything about this stuff though.

edit: I have said some wrong things here so read ahead for me being corrected.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 12:24:47 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
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pacovf

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #148 on: December 19, 2014, 11:59:53 am »
0

Key word being eventually :P
When you can only cross a barrier in one direction, even if movement is random and weighted away from the barrier, statistically everyone ends up on the other side of the barrier after a certain amount of time (granted, it might tend to infinity). Especially in this case, since you can't get arbitrarily far away from the barrier.
As long as the rate of promotions is sustained by the arrival of new players, this shouldn't be a problem. But well, it depends on both rates...

that's actually not true. if you have 50% or more for a win you will reach it eventually, but if you have less than 50%, there is a real percentage chance that you will reach it, and likewise a chance that you won't.

unless there is a gap on how low you can drop (like 0% progress in this case), then you do have 100% with infinite amount of time.

I was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to correct me... yeah, you are right, I spoke too soon. To prove that it works in this specific case, you would need to modelize the exact win probability and related rating increase. Note that because rating doesn't change by discrete amounts (I mean, technically yes, the precision of their floats), we can't really talk about rating being bounded from below.
But still, given the way ratings seem to work, and that your win chance shouldn't ever be much lower than 0.5, I think this holds.

If your odds of winning don't change based on your position (i.e. always 40%) then you are guaranteed to promote in the infinite time limit. This is like the Gambler's ruin only promotion is going "bankrupt". Here's a link about it: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~james/Markov/s13.pdf (on pg. 3)

This does not require a cap on how low your position can drop (or on how much money the gambler can win). There will still be a sequence of events which you are guaranteed to encounter in the infinite time limit that will lead to promotion (or bankruptcy).

After they talk about the gambler's ruin there's an example where you aren't guaranteed to end up in the absorbing state (which for us is promotion), it requires the probabilities to change based on your position. I didn't look at it closely but I'm pretty sure it will require (at some positions) your odds of winning to decrease the further you go down in position which doesn't seem like a very good model.

My guess is that to escape the absorbing state you need to have accelerating probabilities away from that state. I can't imagine having "stable" regions away from the absorbing state will cut it as infinite time will get you there for sure. I don't really know anything about this stuff though.

Your link does state that the odds of getting into the absorbing state are less than 1 if your odds of moving away from the absorbing state are strictly higher than 0.5. You don't need "stable" regions away from the absorbing state.

You can think of it this way: you start in some random position x>0. Because the chances of getting away from the absorbing state (+1) are higher than those of approaching it (-1), eventually all paths (ignoring the absorbing state 0 for the time being) will go to +infinity. So now you just have to "count" how many of them pass through zero, and how many don't. So you've got a non-zero chance to pick a path that will never cross zero.
On the other hand, if probabilities were the other way, then all paths would go to -infinity, which means all paths cross zero at some point.
If you've got a 50/50 chance to win (+1), it's a bit harder to conceptualize the maths...

Maybe blueblimp wants to start a new thread where he works through the maths of ELOs and tiers? :P
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 12:25:56 pm by pacovf »
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Prismata
« Reply #149 on: December 19, 2014, 12:06:44 pm »
0

Your link does state that the odds of getting into the absorbing state are less than 1 if your odds of moving away from the absorbing state are strictly higher than 0.5. You don't need "stable" regions away from the absorbing state.
Where does it say that?
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