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antony

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Tournament! (results thread)
« on: November 28, 2014, 03:05:58 pm »
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Hi all,
The bracket has been posted at http://challonge.com/isotropicinnovation2014
Please get in touch with your opponents of the first two rounds and schedule games with them before the end of next week (December 7th).
Play 4 games (base, echoes, e/f, e/f/c), defaulting to standard achievement target (but you can play extra achievement if you both agree).  Try to keep links to the games and post the results here.

Participants with their time zones (UTC+/-)
antony -8
ipofanes +1
qdread -5
markusin -5
popsofctown -6
Lekkit +1
moomoo -5 (but claims -9 is closer to his sleep patterns :-))
JimKam +8
AJD -5
MTom -5

Antony
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 08:06:57 pm by antony »
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antony

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Re: Tournament!
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2014, 02:56:50 am »
+1

Here we go for the first match, a nice tie:

moomoo 2 - antony 2

Base (moomoo): I go for scoring, moomoo for tech.  I am a bit too slow (scoring Coal was probably a poor idea) and moomoo ends the game with Computers->Robotics->Globalization.

Echoes (antony): We exchange achievements and reach a fairly even 6-6, then I luck out with a Thermometer hitting two yellows, giving me Heritage for the win.

E/F (moomoo): I fool around early ages while moomoo mathes up.  I actually fail to notice he's about to end the game with Math for the win, not that I had any chance of catching up.

E/F/C (antony): We quietly tech to age 5 when moomoo hits Peter the Great.  He gets a couple of achievements from him, then I hire him via Ben Franklin.  I share the Bifocals/Photography combo to jump to age 10 but moomoo fails to notice it, so I get a few rounds there grabbing special achievements while he tries to catch up, more than enough to win the game and tie the match.

It turns out to be not so easy to switch quickly between game types, at least for me :-)
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markusin

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Re: Tournament!
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2014, 11:49:24 pm »
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My games against JimKam
markusin 2 - 2 JimKam

I forgot how mentally exhausting Innovation is. I'm much too tired to comment on these games right now.

Base:
JimKam wins

Echoes
JimKam wins

Echoes+Figures
markusin wins

Echoes+Figures+Cities
markusin wins
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JimKam

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Re: Tournament!
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 12:03:46 am »
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Here is a very brief postmortem from my side
EF:
-Massive punt from melding experimentation instead of Stethoscope and meld it
-Should have just Rivalry Ptolemy instead waiting he got covered, two figures for expansion are not difficult to get at that point

EFC:
-I decided to go for measurement kill, blue at 9 card and green at 8 card. I've got enough card in hand but will get removed by society and banking
-I though my playing line is a bit too obvious though, melding blue without defense and grabbing score are hint for measurment
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 12:05:00 am by JimKam »
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markusin

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Re: Tournament!
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2014, 12:12:49 am »
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Here is a very brief postmortem from my side
EF:
-Massive punt from melding experimentation instead of Stethoscope and meld it
-Should have just Rivalry Ptolemy instead waiting he got covered, two figures for expansion are not difficult to get at that point

EFC:
-I decided to go for measurement kill, blue at 9 card and green at 8 card. I've got enough card in hand but will get removed by society and banking
-I though my playing line is a bit too obvious though, melding blue without defense and grabbing score are hint for measurment
Yeah Societies was one of the heroes for me in that last game. I also got really lucky by snatching Industrialization using Enterprise melded from my forecast. I would not have been able to end the game fast enough if it weren't for Industrialization.

Honestly I wasn't specifically trying to counter Measurement, and wasn't considering the measurement win possibility. I just know that if your opponent is getting a huge score and making massive stacks, it's time to worry.
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AJD

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2014, 02:55:22 pm »
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2014, 09:30:42 am »
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qdread vs. antony
Tie 2-2

All the games, with the possible exception of the last, were fairly close, instructive, and fun!

Round 1, Base (http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201411/30/game-20141130-155330-abac783e.html): Antony won 6-5 by achievements. I built a giant board with Fermenting/Reformation but he scored most of the early achievements since I could not get any significant number of points together. At 5-5, I was expecting to win the next turn with Empire, but somehow he got Empire on his final turn with a depleted board and only two splayed piles, by the surprise of splaying purple up via Mass Media to get three castles from Mysticism.

Round 2, Echoes (http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201411/30/game-20141130-161026-ffb74bda.html): Qdread won 7-5 by achievements. Antony teched up rapidly in the early game with Candles and Magnifying Glass, while I built up cards in hand and on the board with Flute. Luckily I was able to steal his tech and force him to meld over his Gunpowder using Perfume. I scored with Alchemy to pick up some achievements, then shared a lot of dogmas with him and built a giant blue echo stack which I used to tech up to 8 and win.

Round 3, E/F (http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201411/30/game-20141130-164417-d14ce0e8.html): Qdread won by score (Measurement). In the early game I shared dogmas like Perfume and Ice Skates to get figures and a large forecast. Antony used a War decree from Tigernmas to set me back but I already had a lot of cards from different ages so it did not hurt too badly. We both picked up standard achievements without fear of the "penalty." I was afraid Antony would go the distance with Almanac but he melded over it while I tried some shenanigans with Kepler to make large splayed piles. We both teched up to 9 and 10 with Slide Rule and Measurement so things were headed for a big finish. Even though Antony took away all the standard achievements with Laser, I was able to stay ahead in points and create a pile with 11 cards to win by Measurement.

Round 4, E/F/C (http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201411/30/game-20141130-170324-f99ac38b.html): Antony won 9-6 by achievements. Antony picked up a ton of age 1 achievements with Chopsticks, while I tried for the long game by repeatedly tucking 5 or 6 cards at a time with Toothbrush and splaying piles to try to draw good cities. Unfortunately I got too far behind in achievements and never got up to a high enough tech level to draw powerful enough figures and cities to do anything. It took a long time for him to close the game out (he did it finally by melding a city to automatically give him 2 achievements) but I was pretty far behind the whole time.

Great games!
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markusin

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2014, 10:31:41 pm »
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markusin 2-2 Mtom

base: Mtom wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/02/game-20141202-181821-5e1bf726.html

echoes: markusin wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/02/game-20141202-185119-4b1cddb1.html

echoes + figures: Mtom wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/04/game-20141204-185030-032e2d72.html

echoes + figures + cities: markusin wins
Misclicked the return button while scoring achievements. DOn't have the log.

Base:
I had an extremely lucky start here, and it was looking bleak for my opponent. Nevertheless, he played on and managed to win with a bunch of achievements received once we teched up

Echoes:
Close one. Lots of back and forth plays against each other here.

Echoes + Figures:
I decreed war against Mtom with Tigernmas twice. Mtom melded some 2's at the right moment, avoiding total devastation after the decrees. I was trying to somehow make up for my achievement disadvantage by building up my board, but Mtom sealed the game with Universe acheived by Astronomy.

Echoes + Figures + Cities:
Mtom one again had the edge once we reached the higher ages. I was lucky enough to have been given Sejong the Great after playing Shuriken. This allowed me to Decree Advancement to draw a 6, Encyclopedia, which became the Age 7 Explosives when I tried to meld it over Sejong. I used Explosives to steal cards. I managed to sneak a cheap win by using Bicycle to score big while retrieving the whole bunch of low age cards I scored with Canal Building, then activated good Ol' Trolland Hill's effect by achieving Age 5 to achieve 4+ cards.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:32:42 pm by markusin »
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ipofanes

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2014, 05:02:04 pm »
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qdread 2 - 2 ipofanes

Base: qdread wins

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/04/game-20141204-120003-fee6c7fd.html

My castles are checked by his 2nd turn City States. Unfortunately I have nothing but castle cards in hand, out of desperation I keep sharing Metalworking, feeding his score. Uncontested 12-turn win by qdread.

Base+echoes: qdread wins

(I forgot to save the game)

As soon as I lucked into Almanac I decided to play it out. In casual games I think it's too cheesy but this time it's for tourney points and, you know, it's in the rules. Lady Fortune disapproved of my one-dimensional approach and gave me non-bonus echoes until the age 4 echoes were depleted. Meanwhile, my opponent had teched out of reach.

Base+echoes+figures: ipofanes wins

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/04/game-20141204-123523-20d33a4c.html

I managed to achieve History on the red stack! No punches were pulled as we raked in basic achievements. At the end I was only one achievement short while qdread was on Industrialization autopilot. Even though he tucked 24 cards during his last move, he failed to uncover a third Clock for the win, leaving me the chance to foreshadow into Destiny for the win. Very lucky one for me.

Base+echoes+figures+no place: ipofanes wins

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/05/game-20141205-130634-64cc5760.html

We got stuck with our ancient cities in the low ages for, well, ages. As late as turn 9 I melded the first [3] card, but Sun Tzu warred away the Magnifying Glass. Code of Laws had me splaying left all my stacks, so my first (and last) invoking of Paper was given Archimedes' nod for 5 [5] cards! Qdread went for figures and achieved colorfully accordingly, but at the expense of sharing Maths and letting me tech into Age 6. He then managed to tech me down by overmelding my Classification with some shared Deodorant, drawing more leaders in the process. Printing Press got me back ahead into Age 7, and an endorsed Evolution got me further into Age 9 and Rock. Again, it was my inevitable movement to a soon game end against his more dynamic board which let him tech up to Age 10 using Quantum Theory, but in the end I could chosse between picking achievements 8 and 9 and uncovering Paper with Rock.

All in all, two sweeping victories by qdread followed by two heavily contested wins, one of which definitely fortunate, by me.
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2014, 10:32:17 am »
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Yes, Games 3 and 4 were very good games. I think the 2nd game showed the only flaw of the usually broken Almanac-based strategy: it does not draw any new 3 cards (or any cards at all, for that matter) into your hand, so if you keep activating it while the opponent has already teched beyond 3, you get stuck at level 3. Then you cannot make use of your large forecast or take any of the achievements besides Destiny despite a high score. It is very tempting, though.

Our game 2 log: http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/04/game-20141204-121325-b6b11272.html
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JimKam

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« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 01:13:07 am by JimKam »
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ipofanes

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 08:48:22 am »
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Seems that the probability of drawing from > Age 10 thanks to a lucky series of invocation of Almanac is not that high to begin with. If my maths doesn't fail me, it is 5.2 per cent per Echo 4 available to Almanac. Someone else teching up to a higher age doesn't hurt unless that someone manages to deplete an age of Echoes (with Industrializatin or Loom).
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ipofanes

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 08:50:11 am »
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-Quite certain that ipofane can machinery on turn 7

Yes; I was too focused on tucking into Monument with Soap that turn. Throwing a wrench into the inebriate Protestants engine with Machinery might have been better.
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 10:08:33 pm »
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1st half of MTom-antony

base Antony wins by achievements
After metalworking gives me a quick 1, MTom mathes up to pirate code which enables him to grab ages 2 to 4.  After getting a reformed monument, I decide to give him 5 as well in exchange of pirate code via banking.  So he gets age 5, but I get 6, 7 and 8 in exchange, as well as a lucky late Empire.

echoes Antony wins by achievements.
Again a scoring vs math start, but a lucky thermometer jumps me from age 6 to age 9, together with more pirate code tricks to grab achievements on the way.  Some late board achievements (Empire & Universe) close the game.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 10:10:05 pm by antony »
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 09:57:29 am »
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Third-round match: A hard-fought match between moomoo and qdread ends in. . . yet another tie! Very exciting and enjoyable games.

round 1 (moomoo wins 6-0 by achievements) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/09/game-20141209-175530-d9e26e36.html: A six-nil shellacking where moomoo exploited Clothing, Wheel, and Masonry early on while I was stuck teching up with Math, ending up with the useless board of Feudalism and Printing Press. Moomoo made short work of me with Agriculture scoring.

round 2 (moomoo wins by score, achievements were 6-5 in favor of qdread)
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/09/game-20141209-182119-aec1c66a.html
: I was frustrated by this one, as I scored a lot of points early on with Clothing and Perspective which also got me Monument. However, I could not quite get the 7th achievement. Moomoo built a giant forecast with Glassblowing, accessed it with Math, then teched up big time with Slide Rule, but I was able to equal the tech levels with Piano. At the end I was forced to try some desperate gambits with Thermometer and Hot Air Balloon to try to end the game on points, but all that ended up happening was me giving Moomoo Databases, which eviscerated my score pile, leaving the road open to quickly empty the 10's pile.

round 3 (qdread wins 8-6 by achievements) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/09/game-20141209-184905-685cdaf7.html: This was a very back-and-forth affair. I tucked many cards early then set Moomoo back with a War decreed by Tigernmas. I had two inspiration effects in yellow so I kept milking them to tuck cards, luckily giving me Monument. Moomoo achieved the early standard achievements, and I inadvertently put Almanac on Moomoo's board. I was falling behind, but then teched up with Printing Press to level 8. We traded a few achievements and then Moomoo went on a binge with Watermill to get up to level 7 as well. Luckily I was able to cash in 3 achievements in one turn to win because my board was so built up by that point, but it was definitely a come-from-behind win.

round 4 (qdread wins by Radio Telescope, achievements were 6-3 in favor of qdread) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/09/game-20141209-191547-801ec34d.html: This was a truly ridiculous game, which I have come to expect with all three expansions in play. We began by frantically melding and drawing cities. Moomoo teched up quickly with Lever, while I built a big board by endorsing Deodorant and took a few early achievements. Moomoo used cities to tech up even higher while I tucked cards and decreed Expansion. After Moomoo scored Monument with a big Suburbia, I pulled some major shenanigans: I activated Palampore to splay purple right and expose the echo of the card that again came up huge: Piano! I shared Clock with Moomoo to draw an 8 with the echo, which ended up being Radio Telescope, and got Catherine the Great as a sharing bonus. Moomoo started to meld 10's and got a big points lead, but I melded Radio Telescope and Catherine the Great. This gave me so many lightbulbs that I even had to voluntarily return Atomic Theory from my board to drop me from 39 bulbs to 33. If I had not, I would have lost on points by activating Radio Telescope. As it was, I activated it once to draw 16 cards, meld A.I., and sleaze out a victory!
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moomoo

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 10:17:39 am »
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qdread 2 - moomoo 2

: moomoo by achievements
E : moomoo by score
EF : qdread by achievements
EFC : qdread by Radio Telescope

Game 1: a Masonry Monument followed by quick scoring from Clothing and Agriculture gives the early age achievements before teching can go anywhere, in large part due to unlucky Math draws
Game 2: Slide Rule techs up quickly [ delayed a bit by a Construction threat ], and despite some last minute heroics from Piano manages to empty the 10s just in time
Game 3: A surprise Heritage / Empire combination from the forecast ends what was otherwise a neck and neck game trading score achievements
Game 4: That pesky Piano!  Sharing it gave both Radio Telescope and Catherine the Great, two great tastes that taste great together.

Aside from the first, each game was probably one turn from going the other way.  I should wear a biosensor and plot my heart rate over the course of the games.
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markusin

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JimKam

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« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 02:12:47 am by JimKam »
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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2014, 11:33:53 am »
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It just goes to show how difficult it is to beat anyone 3-1 across all the different expansions! I am impressed with those who did.
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2014, 02:55:59 pm »
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I always wondered whether it is actually that bad to open a 2/3 bonus.  Sure, you can run into Candles, but I think this is less bad than losing it to Flute, because you can always have a little luck later and catch back with Archery or Perfume (or at least keep developing your age 1 board), whereas losing your second card to Flute just sets you back a LOT in development.
Of course, what we'd need to answer that is to see stats of games where Candles jumps to age 3 vs games where Flute hits a bonus at trick one...
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2014, 10:19:07 pm »
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Second half of my games against MTom

E/F antony wins by achievements.  Standard noodles opening in absence of cities (i.e. draw a bunch of 1's to start).  MTom chooses not to go for repeated Almanacs and I use Ice Skates both offensively and to grab Destiny, then tech up via a lucky Printing Press.  Deodorant sets me back but gives me Machinery and Reformation, certainly a decent trade.  Repeated Machineries then let me decree ftw.

E/F/C antony wins by achievements.  Look at MTom's last turn... I was nearly hoping he'd get a surprise 4th achievement via the forecast -- Peter the Great nearly killed me.
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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2014, 01:06:25 pm »
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Yes, it was another (fun) tie. Jimkam probably feels more robbed than I do, since I won the only close game we had and the others were basically blowouts. Here is a brief report.

Round 1 (qdread wins 6-1 by achievements) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/15/game-20141215-065906-5b11f716.html: Nothing to report, very standard and one-sided coin flip, er I mean base game.
Round 2 (jimkam wins 7-2 by achievements) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/15/game-20141215-070630-656764a0.html: I got mowed down by a huge hand from which he repeatedly Soaped me.
Round 3 (qdread wins 8-7 by achievements) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/15/game-20141215-072508-3f8d1955.html: The only close game we had! Interesting late play where I used Jeans to draw a base-set 6, getting Industrialization on the table. I also had Almanac with a echo 9 in the forecast. Thinking I could end the game with Almanac, Jimkam decreed War removing my 3 (Almanac). However I had a non-bonus 9 and ended the game by picking up specials with Industrialization. Whew!
Round 4 (jimkam wins by score, achievements were 6-4 in favor of jimkam) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/15/game-20141215-074013-d027a2ee.html: I got slaughtered, again by a huge hand. He melded the whole thing with Leonardo, then Measuremented up to 9. I had no chance after that against such a massive card advantage and tech level.
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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2014, 07:17:13 pm »
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Yup, I had a look at the games, the Soaping looked fun.
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