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Author Topic: Tournament! (results thread)  (Read 8073 times)

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ipofanes

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2014, 04:03:11 am »
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I always wondered whether it is actually that bad to open a 2/3 bonus.  Sure, you can run into Candles, but I think this is less bad than losing it to Flute, because you can always have a little luck later and catch back with Archery or Perfume (or at least keep developing your age 1 board), whereas losing your second card to Flute just sets you back a LOT in development.
Of course, what we'd need to answer that is to see stats of games where Candles jumps to age 3 vs games where Flute hits a bonus at trick one...

This should go into an own thread.

Also, the games should be corrected for the general merit of Flute over Candles vs Puppet/Plumbing. I think two 2 x 2 tables for Flute and Candles should be built, and the Odds Ratioes of "Dogma Effect kicks" vs "win/loss" should be compared.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 04:08:56 am by ipofanes »
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JimKam

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2014, 08:33:49 am »
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Round 2 (jimkam wins 7-2 by achievements) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/15/game-20141215-070630-656764a0.html: I got mowed down by a huge hand from which he repeatedly Soaped me.

In fact you will be in better shape if you do not Kobukson me on turn 12, as I can never dig the soap out
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2014, 11:35:36 am »
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I always wondered whether it is actually that bad to open a 2/3 bonus.  Sure, you can run into Candles, but I think this is less bad than losing it to Flute, because you can always have a little luck later and catch back with Archery or Perfume (or at least keep developing your age 1 board), whereas losing your second card to Flute just sets you back a LOT in development.
Of course, what we'd need to answer that is to see stats of games where Candles jumps to age 3 vs games where Flute hits a bonus at trick one...

This should go into an own thread.

Also, the games should be corrected for the general merit of Flute over Candles vs Puppet/Plumbing. I think two 2 x 2 tables for Flute and Candles should be built, and the Odds Ratioes of "Dogma Effect kicks" vs "win/loss" should be compared.

Plus, you are hamstringing yourself if you meld the base set card since it will take you at least 2 turns to get rid of the echo in your hand and draw more age 1 echoes cards.
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2014, 11:36:24 am »
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Round 2 (jimkam wins 7-2 by achievements) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/15/game-20141215-070630-656764a0.html: I got mowed down by a huge hand from which he repeatedly Soaped me.

In fact you will be in better shape if you do not Kobukson me on turn 12, as I can never dig the soap out

Yes, I made some mistakes with the stealing/attack cards in those games, mainly by not paying close enough attention to icon count. Lesson learned.
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2014, 12:43:41 pm »
+1

antony 2- AJD 2

base 6 achievements for me from a scoring, crappy board vs 4 AJD with a big one.
echoes Chopsticks shenanigans only let me reach 5 achievements while AJD just techs up to his 7th (with a helpful balloon).
e/f I give away one extra B. Roberts achievements in order to war him away with Saladin, then fall behind in score as AJD pianoes(!) away.  I end the game with a lucky sequence: meld an 8, and computer via Franklin, use forecasted tuning fork to check the top base 10 and decide whether draw and execute a base 10 or an echoes 10 with computer.  I see bio-e and check that I can just barely win 2-1 on leaves...
efc Two misreads make 1. me try a non-working demand and 2. AJD give me an achievement via Shivaji.  A slightly unlucky shared physics from me set me back while AJD runs away with tech and wins 9-6.

A lot of interesting games, as usual.
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markusin

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2014, 06:26:33 pm »
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markusin 2-2 moomoo

Base: moomoo wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/17/game-20141217-135940-70b8c6ef.html

Echoes: markusin wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/17/game-20141217-143529-9ae8ad3a.html
Moomoo was playing noodles like crazy, but I managed to catch up on board and score somehow, then won on score with Measurements trying to draw an 11.

Echoes + Figures: markusin wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/17/game-20141217-150524-129ee38b.html
Multiple Machinery madness. That's one point for Candles over Flute.

Echoes + Figures + Cities: moomoo wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201412/17/game-20141217-151921-d3d70cd5.html
Moomoo teched from age 5 to age 7 on turn 9 with thermomometer, then from age 8 to age 11 on turn 10, winning by score.

These games were pretty wild, but the result is another tie.
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2014, 08:05:52 pm »
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The efc game is pretty crazy indeed, and the shortest game so far...
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2014, 05:32:58 am »
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I guess I should congratulate JimKam on the first Almanac win of the tournament and the fastest game so far (efc, 9.5 turns) but moomoo probably feels a bit robbed :)
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2015, 09:50:52 am »
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Mtom and I have played the first three games (with real-life cards)! I am ahead 2-1 and we will play the final game of our match shortly.
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2015, 08:47:21 pm »
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qdread beats MTom 3-1.

Game 1 (base): MTom wins 6-3 by achievements. I fell behind early and tried to get a few standard achievements as spoilers but he got a special or two and stayed ahead in points.
Game 2 (echoes): qdread wins 7-0 by achievements. It was a lucky victory for me, where I milked the best early-age power cards to win.
Game 3 (echoes/figures): qdread wins 8-7 by achievements. What a great game! It was neck and neck. We both had huge score piles. MTom stole a lot of points with elevator and was about to win by using Industrialization for Monument. I managed to scrap out a factory advantage to prevent it. Just as he was poised to take the final standard achievement (level 8), I did a forced share to try to pull a Supremacy achievement out of my behind, but managed to draw Robert E. Lee and meld him to automatically achieve due to having 7 leaves.
Game 4 (the works): qdread wins 9-2 by achievements. Log http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/06/game-20150106-171627-ead33f64.html This game snowballed early since I just spammed endorsing Linguistics and Noodles. Due to unlucky icons MTom had no way to meet the pace of endorsements or counter any of my power cards. I was already at 7 achievements before I started exploiting a huge foreshadow pile full of 4's. Pretty lucky cards, leading to a one-sided win for me.
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markusin

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2015, 11:31:02 pm »
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antony 3 - 1 markusin

base: antony wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-190413-521d5b70.html

echoes: markusin wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-194108-e0d610fe.html
First time I see Television do anything. In fact, first time I see Television at all I think. I need to play more echoes.

echoes + figures: antony wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-201017-f6f74b89.html

echoes + figures + cities: antony wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-202621-cbe7f793.html
Saxomaphone! First Sax win I've seen too.
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markusin

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2015, 09:27:56 pm »
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qdread 4 - 0 markusin

Base: Qdread wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-171515-0adae349.html

Echoes: Qdread wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-172929-8ac97bdd.html

Echoes + Figures: Qdread wins
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-175102-d0e81cfa.html

Echoes + Figures + Cities: Qdread
http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-182156-ac9cb43c.html

I got thoroughly beaten in all these games, but they were still good games overall.

Also had a really weird glitch with my firefox browser where it mixed up a few of the images in the innovation cards. See attached for the weirdness. Note how even the 3 and the 8 on the left hand side of where the age piles are have been swapped. This was only for the first game. After that I switched to Chrome and everything worked fine.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 09:29:39 pm by markusin »
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2015, 09:28:55 pm »
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qdread 4-0 markusin
Games 2 and 3 showcase the power of abusing Noodles, in game 2 to score a truckload of points, and in game 3 to draw figures while scoring, then get Expansion to splay yellow and further abuse a three-echo stack in the midgame. In fact, games 1 and 4 were a lot better, game 1 showcased the best of base set with a lot of back-and-forth due to the crown-stealing mechanic in many different ages, and game 4 was one of those slogs where everyone tries to build a giant tableau of 1's to be able to rack up achievements later.

Base: qdread 6-4 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-171515-0adae349.html
Echoes: qdread 7-0 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-172929-8ac97bdd.html
EF: qdread 8-3 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-175102-d0e81cfa.html
EFC: qdread 9-5 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-182156-ac9cb43c.html
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moomoo

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2015, 09:52:23 pm »
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moomoo 4 - ipofanes 0

 : http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-104328-60deb28c.html (achievements)
E : http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-110306-99b2262c.html (achievements)
EF : http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-114336-4303fa1f.html (score)
EFC : http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/13/game-20150113-130547-89620dcc.html (Shigeru Miyamoto!)

The first game was super close -- we were basically trading scoring and special achievements back and forth until I finally managed to snag age 8 to win the split 6-5.  A well timed Enterprise allowed me to steal levels [ letting me achieve the higher ages ] in what otherwise was starting to look fairly bleak for me.

Early scoring in the second game let me grab and keep an achievement lead in an otherwise unremarkable game.

Despite the best efforts of a shared Ice Skates, my Math then Stethoscope then Bifocals+Photography let me tech all the way up to 10 while ipofanes was still at level 3.  I was able to empty the 10s with GPS to win with a minor score advantage.

I definitely did not deserve to win the last game, but I jumped from 6 to 10 with Measurement, and managed to get Shigeru Miyamoto when ipofanes achieved his next-to-last achievement.  He provided my only clock, giving me the special condition win.
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2015, 11:06:48 pm »
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qdread 4-0 markusin
Games 2 and 3 showcase the power of abusing Noodles, in game 2 to score a truckload of points, and in game 3 to draw figures while scoring, then get Expansion to splay yellow and further abuse a three-echo stack in the midgame. In fact, games 1 and 4 were a lot better, game 1 showcased the best of base set with a lot of back-and-forth due to the crown-stealing mechanic in many different ages, and game 4 was one of those slogs where everyone tries to build a giant tableau of 1's to be able to rack up achievements later.

Base: qdread 6-4 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-171515-0adae349.html
Echoes: qdread 7-0 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-172929-8ac97bdd.html
EF: qdread 8-3 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-175102-d0e81cfa.html
EFC: qdread 9-5 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-182156-ac9cb43c.html
I am looking at the record of game 4, which ends with "qdread inspires green, draws and melds chopsticks... and wins by achievements".
I can't figure out what happened, do you remember?
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markusin

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2015, 11:22:16 pm »
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qdread 4-0 markusin
Games 2 and 3 showcase the power of abusing Noodles, in game 2 to score a truckload of points, and in game 3 to draw figures while scoring, then get Expansion to splay yellow and further abuse a three-echo stack in the midgame. In fact, games 1 and 4 were a lot better, game 1 showcased the best of base set with a lot of back-and-forth due to the crown-stealing mechanic in many different ages, and game 4 was one of those slogs where everyone tries to build a giant tableau of 1's to be able to rack up achievements later.

Base: qdread 6-4 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-171515-0adae349.html
Echoes: qdread 7-0 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-172929-8ac97bdd.html
EF: qdread 8-3 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-175102-d0e81cfa.html
EFC: qdread 9-5 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-182156-ac9cb43c.html
I am looking at the record of game 4, which ends with "qdread inspires green, draws and melds chopsticks... and wins by achievements".
I can't figure out what happened, do you remember?
Yes, I remember because I wasn't sure what happened myself. qdread had a white flag on the red stack, and inspired Bartholomew to remove my Gunpowder in order to have a larger red stack and gain the white flag achievement. The log doesn't show the Gunpowder being removed and the white flag achievement that was earned.
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2015, 11:25:15 pm »
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I see.
Congrats to the winners, sorry to the losers, but I'm still happy we finally have some non-drawn games :)
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ipofanes

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2015, 03:28:38 am »
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moomoo 4 - ipofanes 0

The first game was super close -- we were basically trading scoring and special achievements back and forth until I finally managed to snag age 8 to win the split 6-5.  A well timed Enterprise allowed me to steal levels [ letting me achieve the higher ages ] in what otherwise was starting to look fairly bleak for me.

At the start I had all trumps in hand and quickly on the board (Metalworking, Clothing, Domestication, and City States) but moomoo could cut and reverse my early lead with Mapmaking and eventually with Gunpowder. After that, it got close.

Quote

Early scoring in the second game let me grab and keep an achievement lead in an otherwise unremarkable game.


I attempted to get an echo-rich board but moomoo quickly led in score and age, which proved to be decisive.

Quote
Despite the best efforts of a shared Ice Skates, my Math then Stethoscope then Bifocals+Photography let me tech all the way up to 10 while ipofanes was still at level 3.  I was able to empty the 10s with GPS to win with a minor score advantage.

Definitely my worst game (my last Ice Skates efforts were desparation rather than anything else), for which I have the only excuse that my browser was unresponsive to the point the server warned me not to press <F5> again. We decided to take a break and play the last match somewhat later.
Quote
I definitely did not deserve to win the last game, but I jumped from 6 to 10 with Measurement, and managed to get Shigeru Miyamoto when ipofanes achieved his next-to-last achievement.  He provided my only clock, giving me the special condition win.
Quite few dogmas were endorsed in this match. I wouldn't say the loss was undeserved as the only winning chance I saw was standard achievements, which are always a tossup if it gives your opponent an age 10 figure.
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2015, 07:50:19 am »
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qdread 4-0 markusin
Games 2 and 3 showcase the power of abusing Noodles, in game 2 to score a truckload of points, and in game 3 to draw figures while scoring, then get Expansion to splay yellow and further abuse a three-echo stack in the midgame. In fact, games 1 and 4 were a lot better, game 1 showcased the best of base set with a lot of back-and-forth due to the crown-stealing mechanic in many different ages, and game 4 was one of those slogs where everyone tries to build a giant tableau of 1's to be able to rack up achievements later.

Base: qdread 6-4 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-171515-0adae349.html
Echoes: qdread 7-0 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-172929-8ac97bdd.html
EF: qdread 8-3 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-175102-d0e81cfa.html
EFC: qdread 9-5 http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/14/game-20150114-182156-ac9cb43c.html
I am looking at the record of game 4, which ends with "qdread inspires green, draws and melds chopsticks... and wins by achievements".
I can't figure out what happened, do you remember?
Yes, I remember because I wasn't sure what happened myself. qdread had a white flag on the red stack, and inspired Bartholomew to remove my Gunpowder in order to have a larger red stack and gain the white flag achievement. The log doesn't show the Gunpowder being removed and the white flag achievement that was earned.

I believe it is technically correct not to show Gunpowder being scored, since the white flag becomes the 9th achievement the moment Gunpowder is removed from the red stack but before it is scored. It's still a little confusing, though.
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2015, 03:38:04 pm »
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antony 3 - ipofanes 1
base: Heavy scoring by coal gives me an achievement win.
echoes: Chopsticks + Almanac = lots of score for ipofanes' win.
e/f: Noodles (11 activations in my 11(!) first turns) > Flute for a bunch of achievements for me.
efc: I get an early tech start (including Almanac) while ipofanes gets a fat board, but not enough to catch up.
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ipofanes

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2015, 01:51:01 am »
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antony 3 - ipofanes 1
echoes: Chopsticks + Almanac = lots of score for ipofanes' win.
efc: I get an early tech start (including Almanac) while ipofanes gets a fat board, but not enough to catch up.

I don't think Almanac needed special mentioning in either game. I invoked its dogma thrice for a total score of 4, while antony didn't activate its dogma effect at all.
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JimKam

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2015, 09:08:03 am »
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« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 09:33:12 am by JimKam »
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qdread

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2015, 11:12:14 am »
+1

qdread ties AJD 2-2

Unfortunately I needed a win to tie Antony for first in the standings, but could only manage a tie. I thought these games were a lot of fun though, especially the first two. Both of those were a little like chess matches in which we kept anticipating the opponent's next move, staying one step ahead, and took a large number of turns, which was fun. The base game in particular involved a lot of tactical shares and cards kept getting returned to deny the opponent a tech-up, I ended up taking that one. In the echoes game we both had lots of splays and echo effects, but I tried to rely too heavily on Clock which never really did much for me. In the third game I got taken to the proverbial woodshed, as AJD used the early age powerhouses, executing tactics perfectly. In the final game I used an early-scoring strat with Metalworking - I am appreciating its effectiveness with endorsement more and more - and Currency to build an early lead of achievements including Monument. Then I used a motley assortment of blue tech-up cards (Hangzhou and Ben Franklin) to get to level 7 and pick up the rest of the needed achievements.

base (qdread 6-4)  http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/20/game-20150120-132713-2a2523e4.html
echoes (ajd 7-4) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/20/game-20150120-134737-a2cf52e0.html
EF (ajd 8-2) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/21/game-20150121-070056-3d6862c3.html
EFC (qdread 10-5, got 2 at once with Nobel) http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201501/21/game-20150121-071950-2c305569.html

It was great playing with you all, let's do it again sometime!
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antony

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Re: Tournament! (results thread)
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2015, 02:30:29 pm »
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So I'm now waiting for AJD-JimKam: if JimKam wins or ties, he'll win the championship; otherwise AJD still has an outside chance of winning the championship (by winning all 12 sets of his remaining 3 matches) or tying with me (by winning 11 sets).

I also kept track of wins in each separate category -- right now, if my calculations are correct, qdread has won the E/F championship, and the other 3 are still undecided.  Listing only those who can win, in the format [wins + number of remaining games]

Base: antony (6+0), moomoo (5+1, won H2H), MTom (3+3, would share tiebreak)
Echoes: JimKam (5+1), AJD (4+3) <- that'll be decided by their H2H match too
E/F: qdread (5+0) won H2H against JimKam (4+1) and MTom (2+3)
E/F/C: JimKam (5+1), AJD (2+3) -- antony (5+0) lost H2H against both

I'd be happy to restart a championship right after this one is finished, I think this is a lot of fun indeed.
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