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Author Topic: STAR WARS  (Read 95717 times)

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Kirian

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #400 on: December 26, 2017, 11:44:54 pm »
+2

Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie I've seen.  Fight me.
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Witherweaver

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #401 on: December 26, 2017, 11:56:27 pm »
+2

Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie I've seen.  Fight me.

I just wish they would stop dictating all the battle actions. Like you should have gone over your battle strategy long before the very unnecessary pause when the ships are just staring at each other. And us knowing their strategic details doesn't really add anything and only detracts, since it's all really contrived anyway.

The opening scene was particularly poor. After that, things were much better, though.

And this kind of thing has always been done throughout the Star Wars movies, so it's not a like a flaw of this movie alone. Maybe at this point it's stylistic homage. I wish they'd break from it, though.
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McGarnacle

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #402 on: December 27, 2017, 10:32:10 pm »
+4

I just saw Star Wars Episode 5 in theaters! It was great! I especially liked the part where they fight four-legged walkers in speeders, where the old jedi trains the new jedi, and we find out about the main character's parents!
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enfynet

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #403 on: December 27, 2017, 10:59:50 pm »
0

Man I saw that in theaters weeks ago! ;)

Quote
NOV 26
Star Wars Sunday - Empire Strikes Back

Leading up to the opening week of Star Wars: The Last Jedi come check out the previous films every Sunday evening. For those attending, you are welcome to invite guests. Please remember to have them RSVP so we have an idea how many to expect! Thanks!

10/22 The Phantom Menace
10/29 Attack of the Clones
11/05 Revenge of the Sith
11/12 Rogue One
11/19 A New Hope
11/26 The Empire Strikes Back
12/03 Return of the Jedi
12/10 The Force Awakens
12/17 The Last Jedi
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J Reggie

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #404 on: December 27, 2017, 11:59:05 pm »
+1

Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie I've seen.  Fight me.

Agreed. Except I'm a pacifist so not so much with the fight me part.

Seriously, though. The more I think about it, the more I realize this is the best Start Wars movie yet.

pacovf

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #405 on: December 30, 2017, 10:54:56 am »
+1

So I finally watched Star Wars a few days ago. I think overall my impression is positive, but it will depend on Episode 9. But I am afraid that the constant change of director is going to hurt the series. I won't bother putting spoilers that here, considering what's already been written in this thread.


The main good thing was Kylo Ren. First time I saw TFA, I was a bit disappointed about him, but on a second viewing he grew on me, and TLJ just cements that. He is definitely a new kind of threat, compared to all the other Star Wars. He is definitely no Emperor, so the journey feels less epic, but the story threading new grounds makes up for it. His relationship with Rey was the high point of the movie.

Other good things were visuals (hands down the most beautiful Star Wars yet), occasional bouts of humour (though I hope it won't become the Avengers in space), the central plot point about the remnants of the Resistance desperately trying to outrun the New Order fleet (though some details don't quite add up), the final showdown between Kylo Ren and Luke, the discussions both of them have about the legacy of the past (read: previous trilogies).


There were a lot of flaws, though:
-The opening sequence was downright stupid, with the New Order fleet behaving in the most incompetent way and making them look particularly nonthreatening, which made me kind of angry considering that they somehow managed to take absolute control of the galaxy despite the huge blow they received at the end of the previous movie.
-The casino plot was poorly done, unnecessary, or both. The parallels to ANH's den of scum and villainy were cute, but it didn't justify losing so much time there. And how the hell do they randomly run into another codebreaker in jail? And somehow that sideplot is enough to make Rose fall for Finn in a few hours? What the hell?
-Some people were mad that Luke considered killing Ben Solo. I thought that was fine, since it was just a brief moment of hesitation, and he was shown before to have some trouble with the Dark Side tempting him (cf. Dark Cave in ESB, for example). On the other hand, I don't really see him exile himself (yet give people a way to find him?), become bitter at the whole thing, and decide the Jedi way has to end. That just doesn't seem like something OT Luke would do (and definitely not Expanded Universe Luke would do, but ok that's not cannon anymore). Even less so when you consider that ghost Yoda was still appearing to him! Enough that he doesn't look very surprised to see him right before he tries to burn the tree. So, what gives? I would have expected him to right the wrongs he committed, not run away.
-I am bothered by how quickly Rey is becoming proficient at manipulating the Force or using a lightsaber (see the fight against Snoke's guards, or the lightsaber pull against Kylo). Even compared to Anakin, who we would expect to be one of the strongest Force users ever, and who started his training much younger. Eh.
-Are Ren's knights ever going to make an appearance?
-Snoke. I understand that he is not important to this trilogy's overall story, but he is very important to the general mythology of Star Wars. The second trilogy says that there are always two Sith, a master and an apprentice. In RotJ, both the Emperor and Vader die, so there should be no more Sith. Where the hell does Snoke come from? This is actually a large plothole for me. I would be fine with him being Darth Plagueis even, if properly explained, but don't just use him as a plot point, his existence is a huge problem for the mythology. Also, the whole "I see him strike his true enemy" thing was super on-the-nose, but ok whatever.
-Killing off Luke was lazy. I thought it was a cool difference with the OT that the powerful mentor character would survive, and still make a change in the last movie. And then he dies from exhaustion or whatever. Man. Yes, having a character with the power and knowledge of Luke is difficult to write around. But killing him off is the lazy way out of it.
-If Voldo had told people her plan, a lot of trouble would have been avoided. Poe is still kind of an ass, but he seems to be learning.

The movie seems very intent on doing new things, which is fine. Some of it works well (again, mostly Kylo/Rey), so I forgive them. But I would have preferred if they had done so while staying more true to the pre-established Universe.
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Witherweaver

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #406 on: December 30, 2017, 05:06:42 pm »
0

"Fuck you, Poe."

Because Diane from Twin Peaks.. that was the joke. I was happy she had someone antagonizing her so I could play this scenario in my head.
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silverspawn

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #407 on: December 30, 2017, 05:30:11 pm »
0

I can't hear "Poe" without thinking of the Series of Unfortunate Events
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Kuildeous

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #408 on: December 30, 2017, 09:38:42 pm »
+4

Also, the whole "I see him strike his true enemy" thing was super on-the-nose, but ok whatever.

If I recall properly, Snoke was basically reading Kylo's mind. He was taunting Rey that he knows everything his apprentice is doing. So I view that scene as Kylo manipulating Luke's lightsaber as he held his own so that Snoke saw his intent but was focused on what was ahead of him. It reminds me of the murder plot of the Minority Report movie. To mask the true intent, he mirrors the actions in order to commit the actual act.

Not that they said anything about that, so maybe I'm blowing smoke out of my ass. But if Snoke is pulling that directly from Kylo's mind, then it makes sense that he would frame it as "my true enemy" and not "Rey," since he had no intention of killing Rey. And he sure as hell couldn't telegraph killing Snoke.
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jonts26

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #409 on: December 30, 2017, 10:27:06 pm »
+1

Just saw it. Thought it was one of the best star wars movies. Top 3 maybe. Though the bar isn't all that high for the series. Most of the faults I see are endemic to the whole series so I don't see why this is so much lower rated.

I'm really hoping for a novel about snoke though. That seems like a ton of wasted potential.
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J Reggie

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #410 on: December 30, 2017, 11:17:06 pm »
0

Just saw it. Thought it was one of the best star wars movies. Top 3 maybe. Though the bar isn't all that high for the series. Most of the faults I see are endemic to the whole series so I don't see why this is so much lower rated.

I'm really hoping for a novel about snoke though. That seems like a ton of wasted potential.

I feel like I read somewhere that Rian Johnson's trilogy would involve Snoke, but I could be remembering wrong.

Witherweaver

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #411 on: December 31, 2017, 09:08:52 am »
+7

Just saw it. Thought it was one of the best star wars movies. Top 3 maybe. Though the bar isn't all that high for the series. Most of the faults I see are endemic to the whole series so I don't see why this is so much lower rated.

I'm really hoping for a novel about snoke though. That seems like a ton of wasted potential.

Definitely in the top 10.
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Robz888

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #412 on: December 31, 2017, 03:22:19 pm »
0

I'm taking on the whole internet with my Twitter ranking of Star Wars movies.

https://twitter.com/robbysoave/status/947518976233525249
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enfynet

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #413 on: December 31, 2017, 04:26:26 pm »
0

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
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silverspawn

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #414 on: December 31, 2017, 05:55:49 pm »
0

Not bad!

Here is the true ranking:

1. Attack of the Clones
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. The Force Awakens
5. The Last Jedi
6. Return of the Jedi
7. A New Hope
8. Phantom Menace
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Kirian

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #415 on: December 31, 2017, 06:06:58 pm »
+2

A friend posted a very.... interesting... ranking:

8, 5, 4, 1, R1, 7, 6, 3, 2.

I suggested that by his criteria, the real ranking should be:

2, 5, 7, 8, 4, 1, 6, 3, R1

What was his criterion?
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silverspawn

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #416 on: December 31, 2017, 06:14:54 pm »
0

A friend posted a very.... interesting... ranking:

8, 5, 4, 1, R1, 7, 6, 3, 2.

I suggested that by his criteria, the real ranking should be:

2, 5, 7, 8, 4, 1, 6, 3, R1

What was his criterion?

Hm...

2 has the best plot. 5 has the second best plot. 3 doesn't have the worst plot, though.

Perhaps something like "not being outright unrealistic or stupid?" 3 would score low there. So would 6, with the woodland creatures fighting against sci fi soldiers and winning. 7 wans't so bad in that regard. I think the best formulation of that criterion would be "I can take that which happens seriously." Though that would put 5 over 2...
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enfynet

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #417 on: December 31, 2017, 06:26:35 pm »
0

I'm terrible at ranking things, but I think they went something like this:

1. V
2. IV
3. VII
4. VIII
5. VI
6. RO
7. [Solo or IX will be better than I,II,III, guaranteed]
8. III
9. I
10. II
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pacovf

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #418 on: December 31, 2017, 09:06:42 pm »
0

Also, the whole "I see him strike his true enemy" thing was super on-the-nose, but ok whatever.

If I recall properly, Snoke was basically reading Kylo's mind. He was taunting Rey that he knows everything his apprentice is doing. So I view that scene as Kylo manipulating Luke's lightsaber as he held his own so that Snoke saw his intent but was focused on what was ahead of him. It reminds me of the murder plot of the Minority Report movie. To mask the true intent, he mirrors the actions in order to commit the actual act.

Not that they said anything about that, so maybe I'm blowing smoke out of my ass. But if Snoke is pulling that directly from Kylo's mind, then it makes sense that he would frame it as "my true enemy" and not "Rey," since he had no intention of killing Rey. And he sure as hell couldn't telegraph killing Snoke.

I get that Kylo was trying to muddy his thoughts so that Snoke wouldn't see what was going on. I don't have an issue with that.

It's the phrasing Snoke uses, "I see him strike his true enemy" (if memory serves right) that bothers me. What the hell did he see, that the best way to describe it is that? The "true" in particular is weird, why would Rey be his "true" enemy? As opposed to whom? If anything, that refers to Snoke much more than to Rey, who was the obvious enemy there, so how come Snoke doesn't get even a bit suspicious if he sees that?

I don't know, it broke my suspension of disbelief.
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sudgy

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #419 on: December 31, 2017, 09:09:49 pm »
0

Also, the whole "I see him strike his true enemy" thing was super on-the-nose, but ok whatever.

If I recall properly, Snoke was basically reading Kylo's mind. He was taunting Rey that he knows everything his apprentice is doing. So I view that scene as Kylo manipulating Luke's lightsaber as he held his own so that Snoke saw his intent but was focused on what was ahead of him. It reminds me of the murder plot of the Minority Report movie. To mask the true intent, he mirrors the actions in order to commit the actual act.

Not that they said anything about that, so maybe I'm blowing smoke out of my ass. But if Snoke is pulling that directly from Kylo's mind, then it makes sense that he would frame it as "my true enemy" and not "Rey," since he had no intention of killing Rey. And he sure as hell couldn't telegraph killing Snoke.

I get that Kylo was trying to muddy his thoughts so that Snoke wouldn't see what was going on. I don't have an issue with that.

It's the phrasing Snoke uses, "I see him strike his true enemy" (if memory serves right) that bothers me. What the hell did he see, that the best way to describe it is that? The "true" in particular is weird, why would Rey be his "true" enemy? As opposed to whom? If anything, that refers to Snoke much more than to Rey, who was the obvious enemy there, so how come Snoke doesn't get even a bit suspicious if he sees that?

I don't know, it broke my suspension of disbelief.

I thought that Kylo was purposely thinking something like "I will strike my true enemy", and Snoke just paraphrased it.
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pacovf

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #420 on: December 31, 2017, 09:12:25 pm »
0

Right! But if the concept of "true" is in his thoughts, that should have made Snoke at least a bit suspicious, IMHO.
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Kuildeous

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #421 on: January 01, 2018, 04:00:09 am »
+4

A friend posted a very.... interesting... ranking:

8, 5, 4, 1, R1, 7, 6, 3, 2.

I suggested that by his criteria, the real ranking should be:

2, 5, 7, 8, 4, 1, 6, 3, R1

What was his criterion?

Well, both of you put the movies in alphabetical order.

As for Snoke not being suspicious about the word play that Kylo may have done while having his thoughts read, remember that Snoke has flaws too. He interprets it as he wants to. He really wants Kylo to strike down Rey, so when Kylo's mind telegraphs killing his true enemy, Snoke wants very much for that to be Rey, so he doesn't think anything about it.

Lots of flaws in this movie, but I don't see any major flaws in the throne room. Aside from Snoke's horribly underdeveloped story, that is.
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LaLight

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #422 on: January 01, 2018, 04:51:48 am »
0

"Fuck you, Poe."

Because Diane from Twin Peaks.. that was the joke. I was happy she had someone antagonizing her so I could play this scenario in my head.

oh yes!
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Polk5440

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #423 on: January 03, 2018, 05:33:52 pm »
0

I enjoyed The Last Jedi well enough as an action flick. I feel like Star Wars movies have the capacity to say something meaningful about power, corruption, government, and politics, but fall short.

Lingering questions for me:

1. Snoke says he is responsible for the connection between Kylo Ren and Rey, but that connection continues after his death. The movie also makes a big deal of pointing out the Luke/Leia sibling telepathic force connection or whatever it is first introduced in Empire. Are we supposed to infer that there is a chance Kylo Ren and Rey are blood relatives? That is, are we to infer that Kylo Ren is lying or mistaken about the origin of Rey's parents?

2. Is anyone else bothered that the film set up an attraction between Finn/Rey in VII, Finn/Rose in VIII, and only briefly had a scene of all three of them together at the end? Awkward...

3. Like silverspawn, I am also really bothered by the state of the Resistance. What happened after the Return of the Jedi? What happened after A Force Awakens? Normally I don't care about background that much, especially for action flicks, but it is weird (depressing?) to see such complete victories, but then by the end of the Last Jedi the totality of the military resistance fits inside of the Millennium Falcon.

4. Is it confirmed that Snoke/Kylo Ren are Sith? I didn't think so. While their journey mirrors the Sith (one master, one apprentice, apprentice kills master), I didn't think they were actually Sith.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 05:35:09 pm by Polk5440 »
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Kirian

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #424 on: January 03, 2018, 06:19:52 pm »
+2

3. Like silverspawn, I am also really bothered by the state of the Resistance. What happened after the Return of the Jedi?

There are four novels and a couple dozen short stories that apparently fill in a lot of this.

Quote
What happened after A Force Awakens?

From what I'm getting from Wookieepedia, almost nothing.  There appears to be very little time between the end of TFA and the start of TLJ, possibly as little as a few days, no more than a few weeks.

Quote
Normally I don't care about background that much, especially for action flicks, but it is weird (depressing?) to see such complete victories, but then by the end of the Last Jedi the totality of the military resistance fits inside of the Millennium Falcon.

The victory at the end of Force Awakens is a smaller one than we would hope.  Even though the Starkiller base is destroyed, they were able to destroy many of the New Republic's core worlds, leaving them fragmented, leaderless (destroying essentially the entire government) and without much of a military presence.

Quote
4. Is it confirmed that Snoke/Kylo Ren are Sith? I didn't think so. While their journey mirrors the Sith (one master, one apprentice, apprentice kills master), I didn't think they were actually Sith.

Well there was that whole idolizing Darth Vader on the part of Kylo Ren, so they're effectively Sith.
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