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Author Topic: STAR WARS  (Read 36914 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #375 on: December 15, 2017, 05:52:31 am »
+3

Well when was the last time a truly great Star Wars film was released?

Never?
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #376 on: December 15, 2017, 09:10:07 am »
+1

I enjoyed it.  It's definitely a very different movie.  It is kind of funny that the reaction to VII was "this is too much of the same, do something different" and now the reaction to VIII is "this is too different, go back to doing the same thing".
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #377 on: December 15, 2017, 11:16:43 am »
+2

that was my favorite star wars movie
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #378 on: December 15, 2017, 02:32:12 pm »
0

I enjoyed it.  It's definitely a very different movie.  It is kind of funny that the reaction to VII was "this is too much of the same, do something different" and now the reaction to VIII is "this is too different, go back to doing the same thing".

The reaction to VII wasn't "too much of the same", it was "this is almost literally the same plot as A New Hope". At least that's my gripe with it.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #379 on: December 15, 2017, 02:34:36 pm »
+2

I didn't mind TFA being similar to ANH, as a good story stays a good story. Look how many people love Avatar even though the story has been done a dozen times before?

So the people that liked the model got TFA, and the people that wanted something a bit different got TLJ.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #380 on: December 15, 2017, 03:48:56 pm »
0

So the people that liked the model got TFA, and the people that wanted something a bit different got TLJ.

So who's episode 9 gonna please?
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #381 on: December 15, 2017, 04:45:02 pm »
0

I didn't mind TFA being similar to ANH, as a good story stays a good story. Look how many people love Avatar even though the story has been done a dozen times before?

So the people that liked the model got TFA, and the people that wanted something a bit different got TLJ.

It's one thing to be working off a model or using the original as inspiration. It's another thing to almost recreate scenes and plots from the original.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #382 on: December 16, 2017, 01:44:57 am »
+1

Jurassic World serves as a good example of re-creating a story. In fact, there is dialog acknowledging these flaws.

The same can be said about TFA when Han calls it "another deathstar" and they correct him. His reply is "so it's bigger, but there's always a way to blow it up." To me this is the acknowledgment of an expectation within the story based on the similarities of the two films. I enjoy TFA just as much as I enjoy ANH.

Episode IX will be a remake of the Pod races.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #383 on: December 16, 2017, 08:32:56 am »
+3

Well when was the last time a truly great Star Wars film was released?

Never?

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #384 on: December 16, 2017, 10:32:57 am »
0

Jurassic World serves as a good example of re-creating a story. In fact, there is dialog acknowledging these flaws.

Jurassic World was garbage, and Fallen Kingdom looks even worse
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #385 on: December 16, 2017, 09:12:31 pm »
0

I just saw Episode 8. Fuck all the negative critics, fuck all of the positive critics. Just go see the movie and see for yourself.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #386 on: December 17, 2017, 02:44:16 am »
+4

Everything you just said in that sentence is wrong.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #387 on: December 17, 2017, 04:54:03 am »
0

Everything you just said in that sentence is wrong.

okay nice movie quote, so don't watch the movie is your recommendation?
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #388 on: December 17, 2017, 05:30:27 pm »
0

I'm reading this thread to get excited to watch the movie myself. This is better than spoilers or trailers!
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #389 on: December 17, 2017, 06:37:04 pm »
+1

I just saw Episode 8. Fuck all the negative critics, fuck all of the positive critics. Just go see the movie and see for yourself.

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #390 on: December 18, 2017, 09:50:44 am »
+3

I mostly liked Ep8. Easily the best of the third trilogy, which is not a huge endorsement since Ep9 hasn't been released yet.

But like all sacred cows, the movie needs to face some criticism.

First off, the Finn/Rose relationship started off strong, but I ended up hating it. They invoked artificial drama with him ramming the ram in a way that just doesn't fit the physics of the universe. This thing is capable of tearing a hole in a massive door. How long can a speeder survive inside of that beam? And Rose chose to risk the Resistance to save her "love"? Granted, emotion can make people do stupid things, so I can't say this is unrealistic. But it seems like she should be court-martialed for this.

Although now that I think more on it, it seems like the main characters on the ship should all be court-martialed. Unless I misinterpret the sequence of events (possible with my hearing), the Resistance would have been better off without Poe sending Finn and Rose to recruit an unknown asset. And Poe sacrificed bombers against orders to take out one ship. It just feels like the entire movie is a lesson on how good intentions are not enough to win a war. I'm not convinced this is a bad moral though. But it looks like there is no repercussions for the heroes only because they're heroes in the eyes of the audience. We see consequences, but nobody seems to be pointing blame at these three.

Now onto the porg. This was an obvious cash grab for cute. And I didn't mind them when they were in their natural habitat. There were some fun scenes with them.  It does seem unwise to fill your cockpit with wild animals who could sit on various buttons or just get in the way. In fact, Chewie does end up knocking one off the console so he could fly the ship. From the trailer, I thought the porg was going to be of a sentient race who could co-pilot the Falcon. I'm slightly disappointed that it's just a dumb animal. But still, at least they weren't motherfucking Ewoks. They have that going for them.

I kind of like the Snokes arc. Some people weren't fond of it, but I feel it was different enough to stand out on its own. I was expecting a rehash of Ep6 (after all, Force Awakens was a rehash of Ep4), but they changed things up enough to satisfy me. The Finn/Rose arc was interesting in showing the unseen villains of the war, though it felt a little heavy-handed. Still, it was deeper than anything else presented in the Star Wars movies since Lando's concern for his people.

I felt rather proud that I knew enough Jedi lore to figure out right away that Luke was just a projection. I don't recall any Jedi being able to survive all those hits. I do know they can do crazy mind tricks, and it was confirmed in the duel with Kylo when Luke never actually parried anything. Kind of sloppy having the dice linger behind, but it was for drama purposes. Still, I really liked the dual sunsets as Luke moved on. It was a perfect counterpoint to Ep4 when we first see him with dual sunsets (or were they sunrises?). That was beautiful.

It had its issues, but I enjoyed it regardless. I might end up seeing it a second time, but I won't go out of my way to do so.
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Robz888

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #391 on: December 24, 2017, 03:34:18 pm »
+6

My thoughts on Star Wars, which I just saw. Not gonna spoiler tag it. Don't read this thread yet if you haven't seen it!

*************

I had low expectations going in, because everybody I know seemed to either hate it or at least have mixed feelings. Maybe the low expectations worked to the film's benefit. I liked it quite a bit! I'm tempted to say that it is the least flawed Star Wars film ever.

The highlight of the film was the relationship and interplay between Rey and Kylo and Luke. Rey and Kylo have genuine chemistry, and I very much enjoyed Luke's complicated relationship with both of them. His showdown with Kylo was good; Rey and Kylo taking down Snoke's guards was probably the best scene. Kylo stepping in to main antagonist territory was a welcome change of pace.

Leia was well used. Loved her use of the Force. Space combat remained enthralling: particularly the opening sequence / bombing of the dreadnought. Lots of terrific visuals: the ship tearing through the other ship, the representation of the Dark Side as a seaside pit, the red salt sequence.

The movie gets +1000 points for not employing a Death Star ex machina.

Less good was the Finn/Rose (is that her name? I don't even care) storyline. The casino detour was worse than pointless. I like the idea of the "inspiring the kids to #resist" but it just wasn't executed very well. Quite cheesy and generic.

The failure to explain Snoke whatsoever was glaring. They should have just made him the partly resurrected corpse of Darth Plagueis, betrayed once again by a more powerful apprentice. Rian Johnson said in an interview that he felt he didn't have time to do that, but okay, use your time more smartly (i.e., cut the casino subplot and do something else with Finn).

So yeah, I liked it a lot. I thought Leia and Luke both had a lot of great, respectful moments that made sense, but the movie didn't lean on them more than it needed to. Major props to Daisy Ridley, and also to Adam Driver for finally delivering the menacing, complicated, well-acted antagonist the Star Wars saga deserves.

Oh, the porgies. The porgies were fine, why do people even complain about the porgies? They can't all be the most essential cuddly little characters ever. (The Jedi nun aliens were genuinely hilarious.)
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #392 on: December 25, 2017, 06:56:22 am »
+4

Fuck all the negative critics, fuck all of the positive critics.
Not everybody has that much time at their hands.

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #393 on: December 25, 2017, 08:15:21 am »
+3

I, on the other hand, thought the movie was quite bad. It has the typical hollywood BS of, there a few good people and a lot of bad people and the good guys miraculously win at the last moment, but that's also true for movies 4-7, none of which I thought were quite as poorly written. Here, the writer literally pulled two really specific characters out of their head from nowhere when it was convenient to the plot. Kylo Ren makes no sense, everything about the Sith lord makes no sense, the implication that ghosts can summon lightning bolts is completely asinine, and Luke is a moron ala "you'll NEVER convince me oh never mind you convinced me in 30 seconds in the most obvious way possible".

Also Ė this is more episode VII's fault, but still Ė notice how having the good guys be so far outnumbered doesn't even make any sense after episode VI. It's bizarre how everyone just takes that for granted because it's a mainstream fantasy movie and that's what they do. The good side had won after episode VI, if it's just the default that a new bad power will form and outnumber them in a few decades, then that doesn't look good for the future, even after the inevitable happy end of episode IX.

I think most people are incredibly generous to these movies compared to others because of the brand.

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #394 on: December 25, 2017, 10:01:47 am »
+6

The good guys didnít ďmiraculously win at the last momentĒ. They lost, and just barely managed to escape with a handful of survivors.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 10:02:52 am by AJD »
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #395 on: December 25, 2017, 01:06:53 pm »
0

Fair enough. They miraculously escaped at the last moment, and in the next movie, they'll miraculously win in the last moment. You know it's true  :P

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #396 on: December 25, 2017, 04:36:16 pm »
+3

Better than miraculously winning in the first moment. There wouldn't be much movie then.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #397 on: December 25, 2017, 06:57:51 pm »
+3

So I wasnít intending to see this twice in the theatre, but friends of mine were going and wanted to go as a group. I wasnít opposed to it. Hell, I think I even saw Phantom Menace twice. But seeing it again with the knowledge of the film helped me pay attention to more scenes.

So, Poe is definitely the worst thing to happen to the Resistance. I honestly have no desire seeing him in Ep 9, but I know heíll be a hero and possibly redeem himself in that movie. I donít know if my attitude toward him can truly be reversed, but weíll see. It is interesting how the movie portrays him as every other maverick hotshot who, unlike all other maverick hotshots, had been hoisted by his own petard. It makes Poe a very unlikable character, but it does add something to the story.

I initially was not fond of the idea of Luke even thinking of killing his student. I was in agreement with fanboys who claimed that it was against his character. But you know, how many thought experiments have started with the question of whether weíd be willing to kill Hitler before he rose to power if we had access to a time machine? Luke was confronted with a Sith in the making, and he had a chance to end a lot of suffering. The fact that he overcame that instinct was a testament to his compassion. Itís just that Kylo woke up at the wrong time and assumed the worst (not entirely inaccurately either).

Also, since the Jedi were warriors, they have to react quickly to avoid getting killed. When you detect a threat, then getting into a fight response is appropriate. He didnít expect to see Snokeís influence. He must have suspected something unless he has a habit of reading the minds of each of his students (creepy). Iíve come to terms with this, and Iím actually satisfied with how these scenes played out, but the movie honestly could have played out the scenes better.

The Holdo sacrifice is still awesome. Even seeing it a second time, it was breathtaking. It was a great use of visual and audio. A co-worker of mine had an issue with how long it took her to come to this idea, costing the Resistance valuable people. It felt like a long time in the first viewing, but it didnít seem that long on my second. In my second viewing, I saw a lot of technical flaws with that scene. One scene showed like six or eight remaining ships, but then later we saw at least 15. The whole scene was inconsistently shot, and I wish the director did a better job with it. It deserved a better build-up for such an awesome climax.

The Kylo/Rey story is the most interesting thing. I had felt that Kylo was grossly undervalued in Ep 7. He was mocked by the fans for being too emo, but he honestly showed more angst and doubt during his tutelage in the Dark Side than Anakin ever did. The story held up well in Ep 8. I rather enjoyed the oblique way they handled the Snoke angle. It was all built up to resemble the throne room from Ep 6, and they turned that scene on its head. The only thing I didnít like is that Snoke had zero development. We have no idea how he came to be. Hell, we donít even know how he corrupted Kylo. Thatís a major oversight, but the rest of the franchise has its share of underdeveloped characters, so thatís just par for the course.

On my second viewing, I realized that there was another hint that Luke was not really there with Kylo. I figured it out right away when he miraculously survived several heavy blaster shots, but then I remembered on the second viewing that his lightsaber was taken by Rey. Of course, Kylo wouldnít have known that, but the audience did. I had hoped for other details like the wind not blowing his hair/clothes or him not casting a shadow. Alas, that was a level of detail the director did not consider or chose not to focus on. It was still a powerful scene as you got to see the fanatical hatred Kylo had toward Luke.

My second viewing brought even more hatred to the end of the Finn/Rose arc. I still dislike her saving his life at the cost of the structural integrity of the door, but hey, the whole theme of this movie is people doing stupid personal shit at the expense of other peopleís lives. But on top of that, Finn and Rose were stranded without a vehicle probably only 100 yards away from an AT-AT. Now, while all focus was on Luke, perhaps Finn was able to drag Rose back to the base, but before Luke came out, there were battle-ready gunners perfectly capable of blasting the rebels right in front of them (no quarter, no prisoners is what Kylo commanded). Such a huge plot hole.

I canít disagree that the casino scene is unnecessary, but it did present a new facet of the war: those who profit off of it. There was a Force-level amount of luck that Maz has a trusted codebreaker within range of the Resistance shuttles (and why canít they all take the shuttles to go hide and mingle in with that planet?), but it turns out there are two people with that level of skill in that city. Amazing! While I did enjoy the twist that DJ sold out the Resistance (not that much of a twist considering he was already an amoral thief), everything building up to that was so horribly contrived. Ultimately, the point of this arc was to cement the attraction that Rose has for Finn and present a way for the First Order to locate the cloaked transports. The latter couldíve been accomplished through any other scene.

Finally, I think the biggest crime is the underutilized talents of Mark Lewis Jones as Captain Canady. I honestly had no idea that I needed this man in my life. His IMDB entry is actually pretty impressive, and Iím not surprised that heís a theatre veteran. He commanded my attention immediately when he bellowed orders from the bridge of the dreadnought. His death was truly a tragedy in this movie. I know that rewrites are cost-prohibitive and difficult, but if I were directing this and watched Captain Canady at work, I would demand a rewrite where Canady pursues the retreating fleet and hurls insults at them like some sort of space-faring Ahab. Giving us this character and then snuffing him out is probably the biggest set of cinematic blue balls Iíve ever experienced. I weep for this loss.

The movie is still flawed, but itís still enjoyable. There are scenes that couldíve been shot better (Leiaís use of the force, BB8 somehow subduing and tying up three guards, Jedi ghosts summoning lightning [my unofficial Fight Club theory is that Luke set the fire and imagined Yoda doing it, but Iím not married to it]), but Iím mostly okay with the movie.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 07:05:31 pm by Kuildeous »
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #398 on: December 25, 2017, 07:43:36 pm »
+2

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #399 on: December 26, 2017, 11:17:58 pm »
0

"Fuck you, Poe."
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