Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 20  All

Author Topic: STAR WARS  (Read 145651 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3840
  • Respect: +2219
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #300 on: December 25, 2015, 03:21:17 pm »
+2

I don't think it's the acting, really.  It's the writing (e.g., dialogue) and directing.  The actors in the prequels are not bad, but the production makes them appear so.

I cringe watching Natalie Portman deliver her lines, because I know she's a really good actress, but the prequels don't show that. Ewan McGregor is also a good actor, but he's able to overcome much of this writing. I suspect it's because he was able to look back at how old Obi-Wan is performed and could base it on that. Portman was given crap in a vacuum, and her skills weren't enough to save it.
Logged
A man has no signature

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1691
  • Respect: +1162
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #301 on: December 25, 2015, 03:52:40 pm »
+1

Well, coincidences are just fate. It's what the whole thing is. That's like saying "man, that Harry Potter guy, everything keeps happening to him, that's a lot of coincidences". That's just what the genre is.

I don't buy that the force is a free ticket for plot contrivances. Attack of the clones was a good movie that got by with a plot that made sense despite having the force.

And Harry potter doesn't have a lot of these kinds of coincidences - at least not the books. There are a few, but nothing to the degree of this movie.

Well, Attack of the Clones is actually a perfect example for how overrated plot is. Attack of the Clones has a good plot, and not much else (well, Christopher Lee). TFA has a shakier plot, but is a much better movie overall.

Okay - why is TFA a better movie, then?

I also think AOTC has more interesting characters and themes.

TFA has much, much better acting. It has stronger characters, partly as a result of that : yeah Rey isn't inherently that interesting, but she's charismatic. Anakin is theoretically a very interesting, but doesn't work in practice, especialy in AotC.

I'm a bit biased when it comes to acting, because I was unfortunate enough to see the new starwars movie in german, and I'm so used to seeing movies in their original language that almost every line in the dubbed version is usually cringe worthy, and this was no exception. I don't think the acting in AotC is particularly good, so you might be right.

I think Anakin works well. He's not likable the way the girl in the new movie is, but he's interesting, and his place in the story is interesting. I see him as a not very bright, arrogant, but also gifted guy, while everyone else is much smarter than him, and is also aware of his flaws (even his love interest), but they're all torn because of the prophecy and because he's skilled and they would like to trust him. And it really does feel like a serious problem that intelligent people try but fail to solve. I thought that was by itself a better conflict than anything in TFA.

Also, the attack on the death star in the new one is basically, here is this GIGANTIC WEAPON THAT CAN SWALLOW SUNS AND OBLITERATE ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEMS, and we will spontaneously launch an attack to destroy it in exactly the same way as we did the death star in episode IV... which we basically know will work, so the stakes are non-existent. At least episode IV made it feel like a big deal.

You should watch the movie, then.

No.

Why not?  :(

Because it takes time and I'm pretty certain it's not going to be worth that time.

Honestly, if you really like coincidences, I think the movie is worth watching, because it is pretty, has likable albeit uninteresting characters, and good fight scenes.
At first that scene does feel like that, but it was not THE ultimate goal in the story. The first Death Star was the final mission, in this one it was an obstacle on their search for Luke. So the stakes aren't there, but that wasn't really the intention. They were only attempting to disable the weapon, not destroy the planet. The real stakes were for Rey and, as a result, development of the Kylo character.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3840
  • Respect: +2219
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #302 on: December 25, 2015, 03:59:33 pm »
+2

At first that scene does feel like that, but it was not THE ultimate goal in the story. The first Death Star was the final mission, in this one it was an obstacle on their search for Luke. So the stakes aren't there, but that wasn't really the intention. They were only attempting to disable the weapon, not destroy the planet. The real stakes were for Rey and, as a result, development of the Kylo character.

That's a good observation. The Death Star plot was indeed not the end goal. For that reason, I feel like they should not have included it. It's such a massive earth-shattering (literally) plot device that it felt kind of wasted in this movie. I think they could have done without it and have the stakes be a little smaller. Something capable of wiping out billions of people should be casually referenced. I liked the rest of the movie, but I definitely would have scaled back the Death Star plot to something more relatable.
Logged
A man has no signature

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12848
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #303 on: December 25, 2015, 03:59:57 pm »
0

Honestly, if you really like coincidences, I think the movie is worth watching, because it is pretty, has likable albeit uninteresting characters, and good fight scenes.

Well, I wouldn't say that coincidences are inherently good, they're just a means to and end. If you can write an incredible plot using coincidences, then that's great because now the plot is incredible. The original trilogy and the prequels were pretty lame, I haven't seen a reason to expect that this is much better in that regard, and if you're using coincidences to write a lame plot, the plot is still just a lame plot. Not that there necessarily needs to be an awesome plot for every movie, but Star Wars relies on its plot more than the plot can handle being relied on.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3190
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #304 on: December 25, 2015, 07:38:00 pm »
0

At first that scene does feel like that, but it was not THE ultimate goal in the story. The first Death Star was the final mission, in this one it was an obstacle on their search for Luke. So the stakes aren't there, but that wasn't really the intention. They were only attempting to disable the weapon, not destroy the planet. The real stakes were for Rey and, as a result, development of the Kylo character.

That's a good observation. The Death Star plot was indeed not the end goal. For that reason, I feel like they should not have included it. It's such a massive earth-shattering (literally) plot device that it felt kind of wasted in this movie. I think they could have done without it and have the stakes be a little smaller. Something capable of wiping out billions of people should be casually referenced. I liked the rest of the movie, but I definitely would have scaled back the Death Star plot to something more relatable.

I didn't mean to say that it was the main plot. But that's another problem. It's a planet-sized weapon that swallows a sun to destroy entire planet system in a few hours. That's kind of something which should be a big deal.

AHoppy

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 978
  • Respect: +529
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #305 on: December 25, 2015, 08:04:14 pm »
0

At first that scene does feel like that, but it was not THE ultimate goal in the story. The first Death Star was the final mission, in this one it was an obstacle on their search for Luke. So the stakes aren't there, but that wasn't really the intention. They were only attempting to disable the weapon, not destroy the planet. The real stakes were for Rey and, as a result, development of the Kylo character.

That's a good observation. The Death Star plot was indeed not the end goal. For that reason, I feel like they should not have included it. It's such a massive earth-shattering (literally) plot device that it felt kind of wasted in this movie. I think they could have done without it and have the stakes be a little smaller. Something capable of wiping out billions of people should be casually referenced. I liked the rest of the movie, but I definitely would have scaled back the Death Star plot to something more relatable.

I didn't mean to say that it was the main plot. But that's another problem. It's a planet-sized weapon that swallows a sun to destroy entire planet system in a few hours. That's kind of something which should be a big deal.

You mean 15 minutes...  I love Star Wars, but the time scale is always so skewed... "It's gonna fire in 2 minute!" 10 minutes later, Ren and Rey/Finn are fighting for about 5 minutes and it still hasn't fired...

Teproc

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
  • Shuffle iT Username: Teproc
  • aka Le Teproc
  • Respect: +356
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #306 on: December 25, 2015, 08:08:40 pm »
+1

Well, I'm not going to defend the whole Starkiller thing business. The bad guys in the Star Wars universe keep making big useless powerful stuff with a giant red autodestruct button, and it's pretty dumb. It works a little because it's a callback, but it's pretty bad, yeah.
Logged
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #307 on: December 26, 2015, 02:54:11 am »
+4

TFA being deliberately similar to ANH highlights some flaws.

The big one to me is that there were kinda two plots going on that didn't have much to do with each other and don't mesh well. (Disclaimer: I've only seen TFA once and it's been a while since I watched ANH.)

In ANH, the entire story is defined by the death star. The plans R2-D2 is carrying at the beginning are the death star plans, which are used to destroy the death star in the final battle. In between, the death star destroying Alderaan establishes how deadly it is, and the escape from the death star shows how big it is.

In TFA, again the Empire-alikes are chasing info carried by a droid, but this time it's a map to Luke Skywalker. Comparing to ANH, you'd think that the movie's story would be defined by the search for Luke Skywalker. As you'd expect if that's true, the search succeeds in the final scene. Problem is, in between, what they're doing often doesn't have much to do with searching for Luke at all. Destroying the Starkiller base, instead of being a triumph itself, is just removing a distraction from the actual goal, especially since it turns out that R2-D2 already had the final piece of information anyway.

This creates a weird situation where the climactic battle doesn't actually do much to advance the plot.


My overall feeling about TFA is that it's a good Star Wars movie, though not really a good movie outside the context of the series. That's better than the prequels managed, so it's worth a watch if you like Star Wars at all.
Logged

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1322
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #308 on: December 26, 2015, 07:48:46 am »
+1

Why does everyone only mention a new hope? The only thing similar to a new hope was the waiting around to die. The entire battle and everything was much more reminiscent of return of the jedi.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1322
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #309 on: December 26, 2015, 07:55:08 am »
+6

In my opinion, what TFA does is create that clean break from all other star wars movies. It pays tribute to the old (4, 5 and 6) while setting up characters to create new. I think this was done really well. No one will be waiting around hoping 8 will be full of old characters and stuff, but instead be able to focus on the new story lines.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
  • Respect: +1097
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #310 on: December 28, 2015, 02:20:20 pm »
0

There's a way to do co-incidences where they don't hit you in the moment, but only later when you're thinking about it heavily or talking about it on the internet. I don't mind those kinds of co-incidences. The stuff in 7 are the kind where I facepalm in the theater because wow, I am no longer in the fun space movie, I am in my seat thinking "oh god."

I saw it a second time with my family this weekend, and I have decided my opinion is...mixed! The new characters are all A+, the Starkiller plot is a weird C, the movie as a launching point for a new story is a B+, the move as a tribute/remix/nostalgia journey is a D (because too much repeat, not enough spirit).

Overall, I enjoyed it but it's a bit empty (similar to 2009's Star Trek). However, I feel great about 8 because of 7, unlike Trek 3 (which I saw the trailer of in my second viewing of 7 and my god, the horror).
Logged

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1691
  • Respect: +1162
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #311 on: January 11, 2016, 02:15:27 am »
0

Congratulations to TFA on crossing $800 Million domestic! A strong opening in China this weekend basically guarantees a $2+ Billion worldwide total. Titanic is squarely in sight, but Avatar (worldwide) is a long way off (partially because of the weakened US Dollar in 2009-2010) but not unreachable. If this movie manages to hold well through February, it could see some very large numbers.

Also, do we think that we need to continue spoiler tags on discussion at this point? What is the general timeframe before it's safe to discuss the film openly?
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3840
  • Respect: +2219
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #312 on: January 11, 2016, 07:44:57 am »
0

I think now spoiler tags are unnecessary. With all the various memes posted out there (including adorable Calvin and Hobbes spin-offs), people would have to be living in caves to avoid those spoilers.
Logged
A man has no signature

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3190
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #313 on: January 11, 2016, 08:09:18 am »
0

I wish a good movie would be hyper successful for once :/

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1691
  • Respect: +1162
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #314 on: January 11, 2016, 09:51:09 am »
+2

Are you looking for a "good movie" based on objective or subjective criteria? I enjoyed this movie much more than the Cameron record holders.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

Teproc

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
  • Shuffle iT Username: Teproc
  • aka Le Teproc
  • Respect: +356
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #315 on: January 11, 2016, 10:12:52 am »
0

Are you looking for a "good movie" based on objective or subjective criteria? I enjoyed this movie much more than the Cameron record holders.

Objectivity is a myth.
Logged
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1153
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1795
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #316 on: January 11, 2016, 10:14:22 am »
+8

Are you looking for a "good movie" based on objective or subjective criteria? I enjoyed this movie much more than the Cameron record holders.

Objectivity is a myth.

That's just your opinion.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #317 on: January 11, 2016, 10:14:30 am »
+2

Are you looking for a "good movie" based on objective or subjective criteria? I enjoyed this movie much more than the Cameron record holders.

Objectivity is a myth.

Eh, that depends. 
Logged

Teproc

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
  • Shuffle iT Username: Teproc
  • aka Le Teproc
  • Respect: +356
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #318 on: January 11, 2016, 10:16:51 am »
+4

I knew I could count on you guys.
Logged
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3190
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #319 on: January 11, 2016, 10:17:34 am »
+1

Are you looking for a "good movie" based on objective or subjective criteria? I enjoyed this movie much more than the Cameron record holders.

Objectivity is a myth.

Eh, that depends.

I'd say subjectivity is a myth, and every statement is objective by definition. But it really depends on how you define subjectivity and objectivity. No-one bothers to define it before using it, so it's just a fluffy cloud of nothingness.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11809
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12848
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #320 on: January 11, 2016, 10:19:31 am »
0

Objectivity is a myth.

It's not. Some movies are objectively better than others. It's impossible to accurately determine exactly how good something is objectively, though.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #321 on: January 11, 2016, 10:22:25 am »
0

Objectivity is a myth.

It's not. Some movies are objectively better than others. It's impossible to accurately determine exactly how good something is objectively, though.

Objectively, subject to some set of standards.  (Though you can argue that those are the 'objectively' correct standards.)

Still, "everything is subjective" is just an empty statement. 
Logged

Teproc

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
  • Shuffle iT Username: Teproc
  • aka Le Teproc
  • Respect: +356
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #322 on: January 11, 2016, 10:24:39 am »
0

Are you looking for a "good movie" based on objective or subjective criteria? I enjoyed this movie much more than the Cameron record holders.

Objectivity is a myth.

Eh, that depends.

I'd say subjectivity is a myth, and every statement is objective by definition. But it really depends on how you define subjectivity and objectivity. No-one bothers to define it before using it, so it's just a fluffy cloud of nothingness.

Yeah that works too.
Logged
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1691
  • Respect: +1162
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #323 on: January 11, 2016, 10:27:43 am »
+1

Man, I was just trying to differentiate between "movie I like" and "movie that's well-made".

I should have known better.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #324 on: January 11, 2016, 10:30:04 am »
+2

Man, I was just trying to differentiate between "movie I like" and "movie that's well-made".

I should have known better.

As long as Avatar is off both lists, it's fine.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 20  All
 

Page created in 0.124 seconds with 21 queries.