Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 20  All

Author Topic: STAR WARS  (Read 145555 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2014, 04:44:29 pm »
+6

A somewhat interesting point:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/opinion/beale-star-wars/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I don't exactly share his views, but he does have a point that Star Wars misrepresents Sci-Fi.  Though, the author loses a lot of authority for saying The Matrix is "the most original sci-fi movie of the past 25 years".  Well Matrix was original, but did this guy never heard of Primer?  Moon?
This editorial seems analogous to criticizing Lord of the Rings for misrepresenting historical fiction. It's not like people are somehow tricked into thinking that Star Wars is serious speculation about the future.

Hmm.. that wasn't what I got from it.  I read it more as people saw Star Wars and thought Sci Fi was big operas and explosions, when really it's about exploring deep issues of our humanity.

The problem isn't Star Wars misrepresenting sci-fi.  The problem is people misclassifying Star Wars as sci-fi.  It's fantasy.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2014, 04:47:32 pm »
0

A somewhat interesting point:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/opinion/beale-star-wars/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I don't exactly share his views, but he does have a point that Star Wars misrepresents Sci-Fi.  Though, the author loses a lot of authority for saying The Matrix is "the most original sci-fi movie of the past 25 years".  Well Matrix was original, but did this guy never heard of Primer?  Moon?
This editorial seems analogous to criticizing Lord of the Rings for misrepresenting historical fiction. It's not like people are somehow tricked into thinking that Star Wars is serious speculation about the future.

Hmm.. that wasn't what I got from it.  I read it more as people saw Star Wars and thought Sci Fi was big operas and explosions, when really it's about exploring deep issues of our humanity.

The problem isn't Star Wars misrepresenting sci-fi.  The problem is people misclassifying Star Wars as sci-fi.  It's fantasy.

That's a good point.
Logged

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2014, 05:39:11 pm »
0

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3431
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2706
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2014, 05:46:30 pm »
0

The creator of the illustration was clearly following rule 0 of memogenesis: make sure to include a triviel mistake for people to point out.

trivial*

Now that I have explained qmech's joke, it is funny.
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2014, 06:01:16 pm »
0

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2014, 06:05:45 pm »
+1

Not sure if that is a good argument. Lots of science fiction feature some sort of psyonics. Or sufficiently advanced alien technology (=magic).

Not like I disagree with your final conclusion, though.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2014, 06:07:21 pm »
0

You could use that to argue that Dune is fantasy, though I consider it pretty Sci Fi.  I guess it intersects both.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2014, 06:11:06 pm »
0

The Star Wars plot also features far more fantasy tropes than sci-fi tropes.

Call it Science Fantasy if you wish?
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1468
  • Respect: +531
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2014, 06:19:54 pm »
+2

Can't it be both?
Logged

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2014, 06:20:08 pm »
+1

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Can't argue with Arthur C Clarke! Well, you can, but he would send one of Asimovs robots over to kill you...
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2014, 06:20:22 pm »
+1

Can't it be both?

Who are you??! George Lucas!?
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2014, 06:31:02 pm »
0

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Can't argue with Arthur C Clarke! Well, you can, but he would send one of Asimovs robots over to kill you...

Sure, but the Force isn't technology.
Logged

Jorbles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1468
  • Respect: +531
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2014, 06:59:15 pm »
0

Can't it be both?

Who are you??! George Lucas!?

:_( I have been found out.

No, but seriously there's no reason because a piece of work draws mostly from the ideas of one genre that it can't draw on the tropes of another, they don't have to be considered mutually exclusive.
Logged

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2014, 07:18:52 pm »
+1

George Lucas himself said he sees Star Wars as fantasy. The whole A long Time Ago... is supposed to be a nod to fairytales saying Once Upon a Time... Lucas created Star Wars around the idea of the Hero's Journey which is a common motif in myth's.

Anyway, long story short, Star Wars is fantasy with sci fi elements.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2014, 07:35:50 pm »
+6

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.


"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Can't argue with Arthur C Clarke! Well, you can, but he would send one of Asimovs robots over to kill you...

Actually, I imagine an argument with Clarke would be rather boring.

Ozle: "I'd like to argue about the intersection of technology and magic!"
Clarke: <decomposes slowly>
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2014, 11:15:13 pm »
0

Although it's maybe a bit pointless to argue exactly what genre label Star Wars should have, here's some misc evidence from the internet:

IMDB: Action Adventure Fantasy
Google "star wars genre" (dunno where it gets its data from): Fantasy, Adventure Film, Science Fiction, Action Film
Wikipedia: "epic space opera", where "space opera" is defined as "a subgenre of science fiction"
Wookieepedia, "the Star Wars Wiki": "a science fiction franchise"

I'd argue based off this that it's more common to call Star Wars "science fiction" than to say that it isn't.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2014, 01:28:42 am »
+1

I don't think that hurts my point at all.  I agree that it is more common to call Star Wars "sci-fi", but I'm saying that doing so is inaccurate.  The earlier linked article suggests that Star Wars hurts the sci-fi genre by making people think that sci-fi is all about laser gun fights and explosions and big bad villains, whereas the best sci-fi is "essentially about ideas, not action", touching on larger themes of the human condition, and so on and so forth.  I'm saying that there isn't even a comparison because Star Wars isn't really sci-fi, even though most people think of it as such.  The problem isn't that Star Wars misrepresents the depths of sci-fi, as the article posits, but that people like to classify Star Wars as sci-fi when it shouldn't be.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2014, 02:22:31 am »
+1

This whole discussion is pretty sci-fi.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Lekkit

  • 2011 Swedish Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1253
  • Shuffle iT Username: Lekkit
  • Respect: +674
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2014, 03:40:50 am »
0

I think Star Wars is Sci-Fi. I don't think it's only Sci-Fi. And I don't think it's the definition of Sci-Fi. But definately Sci-Fi.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2014, 04:31:03 am »
0

I think it's a matter of definitions. Would "Lord of the rings IN SPACE" be science fiction or fantasy?
Logged

Lekkit

  • 2011 Swedish Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1253
  • Shuffle iT Username: Lekkit
  • Respect: +674
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2014, 05:07:46 am »
+1

Why can't it be both?
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2014, 06:40:41 am »
0

Why can't it be both?

I'm neither saying that nor the opposite. Are they mutually exclusive? Dunno.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2014, 09:04:21 am »
+3

I think it's a matter of definitions. Would "Lord of the rings IN SPACE" be science fiction or fantasy?

LORD OF THE SPACE RINGS!
Logged

WalrusMcFishSr

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 642
  • An enormous walrus the size of Antarctica
  • Respect: +1793
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2014, 10:45:51 am »
+3

Star Wars Episode VIII: R2-D2 has a Crisis of Identity in a Society where Sentient Robots are Treated as Subservients
Logged
My Dominion videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/WalrusMcFishSr   <---Bet you can't click on that!

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3499
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3838
    • View Profile
Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2014, 11:36:34 am »
0

I think it's a matter of definitions. Would "Lord of the rings IN SPACE" be science fiction or fantasy?

It would be awesome.

Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 20  All
 

Page created in 0.091 seconds with 21 queries.