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Author Topic: STAR WARS  (Read 55412 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2014, 11:39:11 am »
0

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.

I dunno, is The Force all that different from certain races in Star Trek being able to read minds, or mind control, or heck, the practically omnipotence of Q? Since the characters in Star Wars are not "human", it's reasonable to say that "The Force" is simply an ability that some members of their various species possess. So if Star Trek is sci-fi despite having characters such as Q, then surely Star Wars could qualify.
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blueblimp

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2014, 12:13:32 pm »
+2

I don't think that hurts my point at all.  I agree that it is more common to call Star Wars "sci-fi", but I'm saying that doing so is inaccurate.  The earlier linked article suggests that Star Wars hurts the sci-fi genre by making people think that sci-fi is all about laser gun fights and explosions and big bad villains, whereas the best sci-fi is "essentially about ideas, not action", touching on larger themes of the human condition, and so on and so forth.  I'm saying that there isn't even a comparison because Star Wars isn't really sci-fi, even though most people think of it as such.  The problem isn't that Star Wars misrepresents the depths of sci-fi, as the article posits, but that people like to classify Star Wars as sci-fi when it shouldn't be.
To me though, this seems like redefining "science fiction" to be more narrow than the term has been used for decades. I mean, looking up the history of the term "space opera", that was invented in 1941 and was considered a subgenre of science fiction from the very beginning. Science fiction is a very broad category.
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Kuildeous

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2014, 12:16:41 pm »
+1

Star Wars Episode VIII: R2-D2 has a Crisis of Identity in a Society where Sentient Robots are Treated as Subservients

This was kind of what I had hoped the Clone Wars would be when it was mentioned in Episode IV. Then the prequels had to go and ruin that fantasy.
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eHalcyon

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2014, 12:31:28 pm »
+1

OK, but where do you draw the line then? Is being in space the only requirement to being called sci-fi? The term doesn't seem useful then. It seems like you could stretch it to fit anything and everything at that point.

You can say that the Force is a possible non-human ability, but how is that different from saying that magic in Harry Potter is a potentially scientific ability of non-muggles? What about the fanfic HPMOR, which has far more of a scientific spin than Star Wars ever did? How is the Force different from the supernatural spirits in Pact?

Star Wars has elements of both sci-fi and fantasy, and I can see the argument that it is a hybrid "science fantasy". But on the whole, it is far more the latter, IMO. Star Wars plays out like a sword and sorcery tale, just in a space setting.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2014, 05:18:56 am »
0

Any attempt to quantify some parameters to decide whether something is Sci-Fi is bound to fail.

Also it seems the "Fi" part in "Sci-Fi" which means fiction, i.e. something which is not real, is too easily dismissed.
There are a lot of things in Star Wars which are not and can't be (due to the laws of physics as we understand them) real.

But if we take the route of requiring everything in Sci-Fi to be at least possible, there are only two films I can think of: Gravity and Apollo 13.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2014, 08:58:12 am »
+4

There is a difference between hard sci-fi and science fantasy (often also called sci-fi).  Something written by Asimov or Heinlein or one of those other authors from the 50s or 60s is more likely to be interested in exploring an idea, realistic or not, than telling a story.  A nice recent example is the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson - probably not *everything* in it is feasible, and there's definitely some alteration for artistic license or drama, but most of the focus of the book is "what would it actually be like to colonize Mars?" rather than trying to build a satisfying narrative.

Whereas in Star Wars, every science-y idea or gadget/gizmo is entirely to serve the plot, rather than the other way around, so I would call it science fantasy.  Obviously there isn't really a strict defining line here, but just because a border is hazy, doesn't mean the two sides don't exist or aren't worth talking about.  It might be hazy when a zygote becomes a baby (somewhere in the second trimester?) but they're certainly different.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2014, 12:11:25 pm »
+1

But if we take the route of requiring everything in Sci-Fi to be at least possible, there are only two films I can think of: Gravity and Apollo 13.

After playing Kerbal Space Program, there was a lot wrong with Gravity...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

werothegreat

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #82 on: April 16, 2015, 10:21:52 am »
0

So... we might be seeing a new trailer today.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2015, 10:26:51 am »
0

So... we might be seeing a new trailer today.
Hmm. I was sure they were going to release it with Age of Ultron.
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werothegreat

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #84 on: April 16, 2015, 10:44:07 am »
0

So... we might be seeing a new trailer today.
Hmm. I was sure they were going to release it with Age of Ultron.

Companies are slowly starting to realize that everything gets leaked if you try to release stuff at a con or something before it gets sent to the internet.  Better to just have the company officially leak it themselves.
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Kuildeous

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #85 on: April 16, 2015, 10:46:49 am »
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I don't find myself jumping at trailers quite so often anymore. I still haven't even seen the latest Age of Ultron one yet. Not sure if I'm getting jaded or if I'm intentionally keeping myself in the dark so I can be a little surprised by the actual movie. I do remember watching the hell out of the Phantom Menace trailer, though. Maybe that scarred me when I realized the movie did not live up to the hype.

Related to Star Wars, I was at Disney Hollywood Studio last week and experienced the Star Tours "ride." It's a 3-D virtual space ship ride. It was pretty good, but my wife didn't take her motion-sickness medication, so we had a bit of a pause in the exit hallway. I do recommend it for anyone going to Disney. Be sure to Fast-Pass it.
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werothegreat

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2015, 10:52:02 am »
0

I don't really jump at trailers either; I also haven't seen the latest Avengers trailer.

But this is Star Wars.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #87 on: April 16, 2015, 11:08:30 am »
+6

I don't mind seeing movie trailers. I don't mind seeing teaser trailers.

What I really hate is teaser trailers for trailers.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #88 on: April 16, 2015, 12:36:13 pm »
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I just don't feel like watching trailers.  They don't really get me hyped up at all, and so they're just a waste of time.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

werothegreat

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #89 on: April 16, 2015, 02:07:21 pm »
+3

HERE IT IS

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #90 on: April 16, 2015, 02:12:06 pm »
+4

I like breathe-heavy black man. I hope he's the main protagonist, with many scenes of him fighting to catch his breath.

I would have thought Chewbacca would have some gray hair!

Edit: In all seriousness, I'm looking forward to this. 
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2015, 02:19:54 pm »
+1

This was good. Quite good.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2015, 04:22:06 pm »
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I recently rewatched all 6 starwars movies, and thought most of them were terrible. When you're excited for the new one, is it out of nostalgia, or am I just weird for not liking the original movies?
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werothegreat

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2015, 04:25:24 pm »
+8

I recently rewatched all 6 starwars movies, and thought most of them were terrible. When you're excited for the new one, is it out of nostalgia, or am I just weird for not liking the original movies?

You're weird.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2015, 04:26:30 pm »
+4

I recently rewatched all 6 starwars movies, and thought most of them were terrible. When you're excited for the new one, is it out of nostalgia, or am I just weird for not liking the original movies?

The Empire Strikes Back was fantastic and fantastic-er, and that alone makes up for any shortcomings of the other movies.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2015, 05:20:01 pm »
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George Lucas himself said he sees Star Wars as fantasy. The whole A long Time Ago... is supposed to be a nod to fairytales saying Once Upon a Time... Lucas created Star Wars around the idea of the Hero's Journey which is a common motif in myth's.

Anyway, long story short, Star Wars is fantasy with sci fi elements.
Thinking about it now I have to agree with this. Star Wars doesn't really focus on the implications of the technology being used. How lightsabers and warp drives work is irrelevant. The Force and the conflict of good and evil is the focus of the series. You could have the same story set in medieval style.

Compare with Sci-fi's like Blade Runner, and possibly Brave New World and The Island (the movie).

I guess that means Gundam is both Sci-fi and fantasy. On the one hand the significance of space colonies and Minovsky particles is elaborated upon somewhat, but the main stories focus on the triumph of individuals with super suits. Universal Century Gundam also features New Types, humans who have developed powerful psychic powers from living in space too long. No scientific basis is given for this.

Edit: Oh, I was late to that discussion. This new Star Wars movie, I just see it as going to come out when it come out. I'm interested in seeing how it plays out, but I'm not anxiously waiting for its release or anything.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 05:26:57 pm by markusin »
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werothegreat

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #96 on: April 16, 2015, 05:31:34 pm »
0

Somebody's forgetting midi-chlorians...
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2015, 05:41:51 pm »
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Somebody's forgetting midi-chlorians...
How in-depth is the lore on midi-chlorians, anyway? If it's just like Harry Potter magic blood kind of stuff, it doesn't affect the conclusions on Star Wars' genre much.

This question is coming from someone genuinely not familiar with Star Wars lore.
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2015, 05:49:29 pm »
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Is it just me, or does Harrison Ford look like his old self dressed up as young Han Solo, rather than old Han Solo? Maybe that's inevitable at first.

Also, pretty sure it's Sci Fi/Fantasy.

Also, yay Star Wars!
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2015, 05:52:07 pm »
+6

Is it just me, or is Harrison Ford awesome?

Yes, yes he is.
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