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GendoIkari

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Temporum
« on: November 23, 2014, 02:42:18 am »
+2

Temporum is absolutely awesome. Donald, you've done it again!
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 06:16:34 am »
0

I'm quite excited to play Temporum, but I can only see it on import so far and I don't want to pay £60 ($100) for the privilege. 
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 08:33:56 am »
+3

Temporum is absolutely awesome. Donald, you've done it again!
Details, man, details!

And where did you play?
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 12:28:27 pm »
0

Sorry, typing from phone; so more details later. Played at BGG.con. Will preorder unless I'm pretty sure I'll get it for Christmas instead.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2014, 08:06:45 pm »
+7

Ok, details / review. TL;DR; read OP; it's great.


I'm not much of a reviewer; so I'll just talk about what the game is for those who don't know, and what I like about it.

So Temporum is Dominion with good theme (the theme being time travel). Ok, not really. It's nothing like Dominion, other than some sort of familiar "feel" to it. The game comes with a lot of cards (dunno how many); and you choose 10 for each game. So every game is different; and lots of potential for expansion. The 10 cards that were chosen for the current game don't act as cards; they just act as something that makes up the game board; they determine what the 10 actions are available for that game.

On top of those 10 cards; there's another type of card; which is a large deck containing 2 each of lots of cards. These are the cards that you are drawing, playing, and scoring. All from 1 common deck; each player has a hand of cards; but not his own deck. So the object is to score 30 points before anyone else. As soon as someone scores 30 points, that person wins (at the end of his turn. Dunno if it's possible to get to 30, but then lose 1 before the end of your turn. If that happened; you wouldn't win, because you check for victory at the end of turn). So of course if the start player wins; it means he had an extra turn. But this is balanced the same way Lords of Waterdeep is; by giving each player more starting money the later he is in turn order.

One great mechanic to the game is that you don't automatically draw cards or refresh your hand at the start or end of your turn. If you want to draw cards, you need to actually go to one of the 10 spaces that has a "draw cards" as the action that you take there. Same goes for playing cards. You can't just play a card on your turn, you have to go to a space that allows you to play a card. I suppose that in itself isn't new; Ticket to Ride and others do that. But where it's different is that your choices aren't "draw a card" or "play a card". You have to choose 1 of the 10 board spaces that allows you to do so, and the "draw" spaces all allow you to do different variations on "draw a card".

Then there's a part that reminds me of Race for the Galaxy a little. Every card (in the deck of cards) has both a thing that happens when you play the card, and it also has an amount of points it can score. If you play the card for the action, you can't also score the card for the points, and vice-versa. So you always have to choose what to give up, the points on the card or the action on the card. Like how in Race you have to choose whether to play a card for it's benefit or spend a card as currency to pay for a different card. I suck at making those kind of choices; but it's still a lot of fun.

So the scoring itself is really unique and awesome. Perhaps there's other things like it, but I haven't see it. It's not just a score board where you move up to 30, or collect VP chips until you have 30. Instead, you have 10 markers that each need to be moved 3 times. So like Backgammon. I guess that's another thing like it. So when you score 4 points, you get 4 point movements, which can be the same one multiple times, or 4 different ones 1 time each, or any combination of that. And it matters because you get special benefits for having the majority in each of the 4 possible score locations (including the starting location where all 10 of your points are sitting). So if you're the first person to score, and you move 1 marker twice and another marker once, then you now have the majority in 2 of the score places.

There's attacks, but they don't say "attack." So I dunno if there will be reactions. There's cards that you play for a 1-time immediate action, and other cards that you play in front of you which have an ongoing benefit. This means lots of combo potential. But slow buildup because you can usually only ever play 1 card per turn.

So while I'm sure I could play the base set several dozen times without getting bored with it; I'm already curious to see how expansions would work. It's easy to release more cards that are the ones you just choose 10 of; to make each game more different. And if I know Donald X, he already has a bunch of those planned. But then, what about the main deck that you're drawing from? You could release more of that type of card as well, but I'm not sure how it would work. Combining an expansion deck with the base deck would probably be bad. First off, you would just have a deck that's twice as large now; and you won't really see more cards per game anyway. Second, you lose a lot of possible combo things then, because you'd be unlikely to get a certain 2 cards out. Like combining all the Agricola decks together. So probably in an expansion you would just use the expansion deck instead of the main deck.

So now I'm just rambling. Feel free to ask specifics if you want to know more!
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 12:13:43 pm »
0

So while I'm sure I could play the base set several dozen times without getting bored with it; I'm already curious to see how expansions would work. It's easy to release more cards that are the ones you just choose 10 of; to make each game more different. And if I know Donald X, he already has a bunch of those planned. But then, what about the main deck that you're drawing from? You could release more of that type of card as well, but I'm not sure how it would work. Combining an expansion deck with the base deck would probably be bad. First off, you would just have a deck that's twice as large now; and you won't really see more cards per game anyway. Second, you lose a lot of possible combo things then, because you'd be unlikely to get a certain 2 cards out. Like combining all the Agricola decks together. So probably in an expansion you would just use the expansion deck instead of the main deck.

I don't know if an expansion will have more playable cards, but if it did, maybe you'd remove the duplicates from the deck and replace them with the new cards? Keep the deck size similar. This is just speculation on my part.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 12:42:03 pm »
0

So while I'm sure I could play the base set several dozen times without getting bored with it; I'm already curious to see how expansions would work. It's easy to release more cards that are the ones you just choose 10 of; to make each game more different. And if I know Donald X, he already has a bunch of those planned. But then, what about the main deck that you're drawing from? You could release more of that type of card as well, but I'm not sure how it would work. Combining an expansion deck with the base deck would probably be bad. First off, you would just have a deck that's twice as large now; and you won't really see more cards per game anyway. Second, you lose a lot of possible combo things then, because you'd be unlikely to get a certain 2 cards out. Like combining all the Agricola decks together. So probably in an expansion you would just use the expansion deck instead of the main deck.

I don't know if an expansion will have more playable cards, but if it did, maybe you'd remove the duplicates from the deck and replace them with the new cards? Keep the deck size similar. This is just speculation on my part.

The deck is all duplicates; there's 2 of every card.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 12:49:55 pm »
0

So while I'm sure I could play the base set several dozen times without getting bored with it; I'm already curious to see how expansions would work. It's easy to release more cards that are the ones you just choose 10 of; to make each game more different. And if I know Donald X, he already has a bunch of those planned. But then, what about the main deck that you're drawing from? You could release more of that type of card as well, but I'm not sure how it would work. Combining an expansion deck with the base deck would probably be bad. First off, you would just have a deck that's twice as large now; and you won't really see more cards per game anyway. Second, you lose a lot of possible combo things then, because you'd be unlikely to get a certain 2 cards out. Like combining all the Agricola decks together. So probably in an expansion you would just use the expansion deck instead of the main deck.

I don't know if an expansion will have more playable cards, but if it did, maybe you'd remove the duplicates from the deck and replace them with the new cards? Keep the deck size similar. This is just speculation on my part.

The deck is all duplicates; there's 2 of every card.

I'm going to assume you're being serious and clarify. Take out one of each card, leaving one of each in the deck. Then add the new cards.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 12:54:58 pm »
0

So while I'm sure I could play the base set several dozen times without getting bored with it; I'm already curious to see how expansions would work. It's easy to release more cards that are the ones you just choose 10 of; to make each game more different. And if I know Donald X, he already has a bunch of those planned. But then, what about the main deck that you're drawing from? You could release more of that type of card as well, but I'm not sure how it would work. Combining an expansion deck with the base deck would probably be bad. First off, you would just have a deck that's twice as large now; and you won't really see more cards per game anyway. Second, you lose a lot of possible combo things then, because you'd be unlikely to get a certain 2 cards out. Like combining all the Agricola decks together. So probably in an expansion you would just use the expansion deck instead of the main deck.

I don't know if an expansion will have more playable cards, but if it did, maybe you'd remove the duplicates from the deck and replace them with the new cards? Keep the deck size similar. This is just speculation on my part.

The deck is all duplicates; there's 2 of every card.

I'm going to assume you're being serious and clarify. Take out one of each card, leaving one of each in the deck. Then add the new cards.

Yes, I was serious and had misunderstood. Thought you meant to take out all pairs of cards.

If an expansion deck were the same size as the starter deck, then I'd definitely think you'd likely just replace the entire deck. If the expansion deck is just a handful of new pairs of cards, then you could just add them in. But removing 1 of each, you completely lose the rule/mechanic of "there's 2 of each card." I think it would seem weird for an expansion to make a change like that. There's a reason that the deck has 2 of each.
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 01:44:13 pm »
0

If an expansion deck were the same size as the starter deck, then I'd definitely think you'd likely just replace the entire deck. If the expansion deck is just a handful of new pairs of cards, then you could just add them in. But removing 1 of each, you completely lose the rule/mechanic of "there's 2 of each card." I think it would seem weird for an expansion to make a change like that. There's a reason that the deck has 2 of each.

You have played the game and I haven't, so please explain. What is the reason the deck has 2 of each card, other than to have enough cards to make a decent-sized deck? Is there some mechanic that makes the duplicates pertinent? A location on the board, perhaps?
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2014, 01:51:14 pm »
0

If an expansion deck were the same size as the starter deck, then I'd definitely think you'd likely just replace the entire deck. If the expansion deck is just a handful of new pairs of cards, then you could just add them in. But removing 1 of each, you completely lose the rule/mechanic of "there's 2 of each card." I think it would seem weird for an expansion to make a change like that. There's a reason that the deck has 2 of each.

You have played the game and I haven't, so please explain. What is the reason the deck has 2 of each card, other than to have enough cards to make a decent-sized deck? Is there some mechanic that makes the duplicates pertinent? A location on the board, perhaps?

I believe it is to make it so more than one player potentially has access to any particular card. Plus the card effects are cumulative.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 02:16:23 pm »
+1

If an expansion deck were the same size as the starter deck, then I'd definitely think you'd likely just replace the entire deck. If the expansion deck is just a handful of new pairs of cards, then you could just add them in. But removing 1 of each, you completely lose the rule/mechanic of "there's 2 of each card." I think it would seem weird for an expansion to make a change like that. There's a reason that the deck has 2 of each.

You have played the game and I haven't, so please explain. What is the reason the deck has 2 of each card, other than to have enough cards to make a decent-sized deck? Is there some mechanic that makes the duplicates pertinent? A location on the board, perhaps?

I believe it is to make it so more than one player potentially has access to any particular card. Plus the card effects are cumulative.

I was going to say the cumulative thing; I hadn't thought of the first thing.

So as I'd mentioned there's some cards that when you play, they stay in play and give you permanent (or in some cases one-shot) effects. These seem to self-combo pretty well. Not that having 2 of them gives you more than double what you get from one of them, but it gives you more of the strategy that you are going for. Like in one of my games, I had both copies of "when you score a card, draw a card" in play. So I drew 2 each time I scored; and thus didn't need to worry about taking the action to draw cards.

It would be easy for there to make a cards that specifically require duplicates... a card called X that says "when you play or score another X, ...." There might even by a card that's like that now. But I don't think it's likely that there is or will be, because it would be rare that one player would find both of the cards in a game. Macao and Agrlicola both do this, and I don't like it.

But rickert makes a good point too, having a second copy helps with the balance; it's harder for one player to win because he just happened to draw the best card. Though for the game to be balanced in general, there can't be any 1 or 2 cards that are way better than the other cards.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 02:19:18 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 09:35:10 pm »
+4

You have played the game and I haven't, so please explain. What is the reason the deck has 2 of each card, other than to have enough cards to make a decent-sized deck? Is there some mechanic that makes the duplicates pertinent? A location on the board, perhaps?
There's the opposite kind of location actually - one that lets you play cards as copies of other cards.

Initially there were no duplicates. Moritz from HiG played a game and commented on how I got plenty of variety from the 10 cards that change; why did I need the deck to be all unique cards? He thought going down to 3 or 4 copies of each card would make the game easier to learn. I thought he had a point but lowered it to merely 2 copies of each card. When I tried this out I found that I really gave nothing up to get there. And then, it can be fun to get two copies of the same card, and obv. it means 30 fewer pieces of art, which is a lot.

I will post the secret history once it's clear that people can actually buy it outside of the con.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 11:31:47 am »
0

Just pre-ordered from CoolStuffInc. Excited!
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2014, 05:54:54 pm »
+1

After about a dozen plays, I have high hopes that this game may actually be as good as Dominion. Of course that's impossible to say yet, but I will very comfortably say, go buy it.
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2014, 06:14:38 pm »
0

Do you own a copy?
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2014, 07:20:23 pm »
0

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2014, 08:03:34 pm »
0

My store got them today. Sadly my gaming budget probably won't let me own it for awhile.  :(
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2014, 08:05:39 pm »
0

Voltaire, are you in the US?
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2014, 08:07:27 pm »
0

Voltaire, are you in the US?

Yes, Chicago. I assume that means it'll be everywhere (in the US) by Monday, if it isn't already.
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2014, 08:09:15 pm »
0

I'll check my FLGS tomorrow at the gaming meetup.
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2014, 12:20:51 am »
0

For those who don't care about supporting their FLGS, www.coolstuffinc.com still has it for $35. I'm extra happy because I had no idea when it was actually being released when I preordered it, but turns out I ordered it just as it was released. Should be here tomorrow. Along with One Night, Inkognito, and Castles of Mad King Ludwig.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 12:22:47 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2014, 12:52:25 pm »
0

Got this today, hope to get to play it soon.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Temporum
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2014, 12:53:56 pm »
+1

Got this today, hope to get to play it soon.

Mine just arrived, will play a few on Monday night game night.
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Re: Temporum
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2014, 01:54:22 pm »
0

I will move to the US in a month. I am already thinking this may be the first non-necessity I buy. Please tell me it will be on Isotropic.
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