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[silverspawn]

With two very exotic plays, that are almost never correct, but both were game changers here.

Code: [Select]

Native Village, Vagrant, Ambassador, Masterpiece, Urchin, Marauder, Sea Hag, Wandering Minstrel, Highway, Rabble
log: http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/static/logprettifier.html?20141117/log.5182cd42e4b05e4ebc88aeed.1416262511031.txt

Unconventional Play #1: on turn 4, I buy Ruined Market from the top of the ruins pile (never did that this early before), thankful that he didn't do it before me. As planed, that almost doubles the strength of my deck (I even managed to not accidentally trash it with merc), and I get far ahead. The next ruin is not a market, so no-one touches it for the rest of the game.

Knowing that I'm in full control of this game now, I overbuild a little bit, because why not. Play it safe. I then mess up on turn 16, where I exile the market instead of a dead card with my only native village, because I somehow think it will be discarded by Wandering Minstrel. An unfortunate misstep, but I'm still in an unloseable situation. the next turn I get it back. Three provinces are left in the supply, i have two buys, he is 6 points ahead, so I choose to buy one of them and a rabble, knowing that, if he buys a province, I can province/duchy and win, and if he doesn't, I can double province and win; either way, my ruined market is unstoppable. After all, there is no way he can get more than one province out of the supply without buys... r-right?

Unconventional Play #2:
Itay Bavly   plays Ambassador
Itay Bavly   reveals Province
silverspawn    gains Province
Itay Bavly   plays 2 Silver, 1 Copper, 1 Gold
Itay Bavly   buys Province
Itay Bavly   gains Province

And it was a tie. a very aggravating result indeed. It felt like the win was snatched right out of my grasp.

[sudgy]

The last one is super common, and the first one is sort of common.

I've rarely ever seen the last one (but am aware of it), and the first one is more common once you've built up your deck more.  He was saying buying it on T4 is uncommon.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I erased my post almost immediately since I decided I didn't want to be a Debbie downer. But sudgy has quoted me so I will respond I guess. The Ambassador a Province thing happens pretty often, at least it seems that way to me. It's certainly something I think about a lot when Ambassador is around.

[Awaclus]

I think the Ambassador on a Province thing isn't very uncommon, but usually you're just making your win faster and guaranteeing it, not stealing the win like in this game. I don't remember a single game where I think that Ambassadoring a Province clearly made the difference between winning or losing a game, only one game where it could have made the difference and that's why I bought an extra Ambassador late but the game ended before I could play it.

[silverspawn]

well I've never seen it, in, uh, about 5k games. I also only bought ruined market like twice or something I think, and never that early

[Polk5440]

I have done the Ambassador a Province thing. Only once or twice when it really mattered for the outcome of the game, though. The other times were just to speed up the game.

[-Stef-]

I erased my post almost immediately since I decided I didn't want to be a Debbie downer.

How on earth am I supposed to upvote you deleting your post?
Everybody is allowed to enjoy their first time at X, whatever it is.

That said - I would expect Silverspawn to have seen this a lot more/sooner. He's pretty good, and I think this play is good reasonably often.
Especially when we include the whole set of going beyond "I don't want this - you have it" ambassador thing.
In decreasing frequency (?)

* 3 piling
* running out provinces
* activating cities
* preventing 3 piling

[Kirian]

Perhaps the only winning move was not to play?

[SCSN]

Especially when we include the whole set of going beyond "I don't want this - you have it" ambassador thing.
In decreasing frequency (?)

* 3 piling
* running out provinces
* activating cities
* preventing 3 piling

Don't forgot this one:

Stef (being comfortably ahead but not quite satisfied with the performance of his Tributes): can't you buy some more Great Halls?
SCSN: no thanks, but you can always Amb them over...
Stef: hey, that's actually a good idea

Then he goes ahead and does it, and it worked...

[silverspawn]

* 3 piling
* running out provinces
* activating cities
* preventing 3 piling

oh I have seen it for piles and cities before. Just not with provinces. Well, I think I did it once or twice for fun when I was far ahead, but never as a legit move.

I've also never seen amb to prevent piling.

[soulnet]

Am I the only one who thinks Urchin/Ambassador is a bad opening? Double Amb has to be better, and even WM+Amb looks better to me. Merc will run out of fuel fast without +Buy, and even though you can theoretically overpay for Masterpiece for Silver-fueling it, do you really want to waste one of your Buys in Masterpiece?

The thing is, if you collide Urchin and Amb on the first shuffle (like silverspawn did here), ok, it is good enough (still not decisive against a double Amb opening that does not collide), but that is a gamble. I just don't see it.

[soulnet]

oh I have seen it for piles and cities before. Just not with provinces. Well, I think I did it once or twice for fun when I was far ahead, but never as a legit move.

I have done it with Colonies even several times. Amb a Province and get Province+Estate is a pretty common PPR-avoiding manouver in weak engines or good engines with a bad but not bad enough draw.

[silverspawn]

Am I the only one who thinks Urchin/Ambassador is a bad opening? Double Amb has to be better, and even WM+Amb looks better to me. Merc will run out of fuel fast without +Buy, and even though you can theoretically overpay for Masterpiece for Silver-fueling it, do you really want to waste one of your Buys in Masterpiece?

The thing is, if you collide Urchin and Amb on the first shuffle (like silverspawn did here), ok, it is good enough (still not decisive against a double Amb opening that does not collide), but that is a gamble. I just don't see it.

mercenary rewards you so much for trashing that I can only see it crushing a double amb play. you will build your deck while your opponent plays with 3 card hands.

[soulnet]

mercenary rewards you so much for trashing that I can only see it crushing a double amb play. you will build your deck while your opponent plays with 3 card hands.

Being a huge advocate of Masq > Amb, I agree with your principle. However, getting and playing Mercenary can take a long time, especially facing an opponent that is not letting you thin... I am not sure. It seems high variance, too, so it is hard to know for sure.