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[werothegreat]

So there's been a lot of tries to have cards that have negative VP as a sort of counterweight to a super-awesome ability, and I think I finally hit on something:

Cursed Idol
Treasure - $4

$3
When you play this, if you have any Treasures in play other than Cursed Idols or Coppers, trash one of them.  Discard your hand.  Gain a Curse, putting it on top of your deck.


So it's a Gold that costs $4 that trashes your other good Treasures, you can't use Bank on them, and you can't Watchtower or Trader away the Curses it gives you.

[Awaclus]

So it's basically a terminal Treasure (!) that junks you every time you play it. You might get one or two if the Curses have run out for other reasons, but I don't see this card being very good ever.

[silverspawn]

I'm afraid it's too complex/disjointed to really look appealing. but also, the way it's worded, you always get the curse, which makes it very weak. you'll pretty much only want them if curses are out.

[pacovf]

Why isn't it able to trash coppers? You're gaining a curse, you know. I would lift that restriction, and simplify the wording:

Cursed Idol
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
$3
When you play this, trash a Treasure you have in play other than this. Discard your hand.  Gain a Curse, putting it on top of your deck.

Maybe allow Cursed Idol to trash itself?

[Kirian]

I think the wording below the line is fixable:

----
At the start of Clean-up this turn, if you have any Treasures in play other than Copper or Cursed Idol, trash one of those Treasures and gain a Curse.

[eHalcyon]

I think the wording below the line is fixable:

----
At the start of Clean-up this turn, if you have any Treasures in play other than Copper or Cursed Idol, trash one of those Treasures and gain a Curse.

What are you trying to fix, and what are you leaving above the line?  This version means that you don't have to gain a Curse if you only play Coppers and Cursed Idols.  That would be perfectly viable if you don't leave the hand discard above the line.  As it is, I'm not sure what this change does other than making it slightly easier to track how much money you produce.  But trashing in-play treasures isn't particularly hard to track anyway.  Counterfeit exists.

[Kirian]

I think the wording below the line is fixable:

----
At the start of Clean-up this turn, if you have any Treasures in play other than Copper or Cursed Idol, trash one of those Treasures and gain a Curse.

What are you trying to fix, and what are you leaving above the line?  This version means that you don't have to gain a Curse if you only play Coppers and Cursed Idols.  That would be perfectly viable if you don't leave the hand discard above the line.  As it is, I'm not sure what this change does other than making it slightly easier to track how much money you produce.  But trashing in-play treasures isn't particularly hard to track anyway.  Counterfeit exists.

Sorry, that was intended to replace all of the text, removing the discard as well; the only thing above that would be the $3.  So I guess it's not just rewording.

This change makes the penalty a lot less painful; it goes from "gain a Curse and discard everything else when you play this" to "gain a Curse when you play treasures other than this and Copper."  Whether or not it's more appealing is difficult to say.  Certainly gain a Curse and discard your hand is an extreme penalty though.

[Awaclus]

This change makes the penalty a lot less painful; it goes from "gain a Curse and discard everything else when you play this" to "gain a Curse when you play treasures other than this and Copper."  Whether or not it's more appealing is difficult to say.  Certainly gain a Curse and discard your hand is an extreme penalty though.

Discarding your hand only prevents you from playing another Cursed Idol though, and using Reactions (and also some Farmland stuff etc). Gaining the Curse and trashing a Gold or whatever is pretty extreme on its own.

[eHalcyon]

I think the wording below the line is fixable:

----
At the start of Clean-up this turn, if you have any Treasures in play other than Copper or Cursed Idol, trash one of those Treasures and gain a Curse.

What are you trying to fix, and what are you leaving above the line?  This version means that you don't have to gain a Curse if you only play Coppers and Cursed Idols.  That would be perfectly viable if you don't leave the hand discard above the line.  As it is, I'm not sure what this change does other than making it slightly easier to track how much money you produce.  But trashing in-play treasures isn't particularly hard to track anyway.  Counterfeit exists.

Sorry, that was intended to replace all of the text, removing the discard as well; the only thing above that would be the $3.  So I guess it's not just rewording.

This change makes the penalty a lot less painful; it goes from "gain a Curse and discard everything else when you play this" to "gain a Curse when you play treasures other than this and Copper."  Whether or not it's more appealing is difficult to say.  Certainly gain a Curse and discard your hand is an extreme penalty though.

I think the problem with this version is that the penalty is virtually meaningless unless it's a Colony game.  As a Gold-with-penalty, it can't cost $6+.  At $5, it would be kind of boring and still mostly skippable.  At $4, it's effectively strictly superior to Silver outside of edge cases like Feodum.  You can buy Cursed Idol most times you would buy Silver.  With Cursed Idol, there is no need to buy Gold either.  Alt treasures are mostly inferior as well.  With no Silver, Gold or alt treasure, the penalty never triggers.  So this is just really cheap Gold.  Platinum would be the only reason to skip this, and it might be that just sticking with Cursed Idol would be more effective, should you want treasures in your deck.

[werothegreat]

Okay, how about:

Cursed Idol
$4 - Treasure

$3

When you play this, trash another Treasure in play, and gain a Curse, putting it on top of your deck.

--------

You may not play this unless you have at least one other Treasure in play.

[Marcory]

"You may not play this" causes a paradox with Adventurer and possibly Counterfeit (which might only be able to play the treasure once--after all, Counterfeit can even play Spoils twice).

It also suffers from the usual problem of 'curse yourself to play an OP card' variants--it's OP when the curses run out.

You could have something like "when you play this, each other player gains X VP chip(s)" to avoid the problem of Curses running out, if you wish.

[LastFootnote]

I think the best idea to come out of this is the idea of trashing a Treasure in play, although I'd rather see it as an on-gain penalty. "When you gain this, trash a Treasure you have in play other than Copper. Otherwise, trash this." The only problem is that you could circumvent the penalty with stuff like Watchtower and Royal Seal. Maybe that's fine, though.

[werothegreat]

*"You may not put this into play from your hand unless you have another Treasure in play."

[pedroluchini]

How about we invert the penalty instead?

Blessed Idol
Treasure - $4

$3
When you play this, each other player draws a card.

[qmech]

"You may not play this" causes a paradox with Adventurer

(Adventurer doesn't play Treasures, it just draws them.)

[market squire]

Okay, how about:

Cursed Idol
$4 - Treasure

$3

When you play this, trash another Treasure in play, and gain a Curse, putting it on top of your deck.

--------

You may not play this unless you have at least one other Treasure in play.

You could just give cash for trash instead having a restriction.

Cursed Idol
$4 - Treasure

When you play this, gain a Curse.
Trash another Treasure you have in play.
If it is not a Copper, this is worth $3.


Looks a bit like Counterfeit, so what about a derivate of LFNs version:

Cursed Idol
$4 - Treasure

Worth $3
When you play this, gain a Curse, putting it on top of your deck.
________________________
When you gain this, trash a card you have in play. If it doesn't cost more than $2, trash this.

[Asper]

I don't see why it shouldn't be able to trash itself.

"When you play this, trash one of your Treasures in play and gain a curse."

[Archetype]

Maybe:

Cursed Idol
Treasure
Cost: $5

$3

When you play this, gain a Curse (putting it on top of your deck?). If you didn't gain a Curse, trash this.

[Asper]

Maybe:

Cursed Idol
Treasure
Cost: $5

$3

When you play this, gain a Curse (putting it on top of your deck?). If you didn't gain a Curse, trash this.

This compares very unfavourably to Cachee, though.

[Asper]

Billy Idol, 4$
3$
When you play this, each other player gets +1VP