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[Amac]

Dunno if this is actually the right place for this.

So, I own just Intrigue and Seaside to play for fun IRL, but one of my friends always tends to go for Treasure Maps (on 2-player games, I actually think it's viable on 4p when you want to just try your luck.), and seems to either make the right choice in this, or he's just being lucky. I feel that when Haven, Tactician or Warehouse (maybe Caravan, but it conflicts at 4) is on the board, going TM should be the right choice usually, but even without these I can't seem to win these games.

Which way to counter the maps best? (With these sets) Should something like Wharf/Big Money, Torturer/Big Money be enough or is it only viable to not go for Treasure Maps when there are curse-givers (Sea Hag, Swindler, Embargo, Ambassador) or a really strong and quick engine is on the board? Or is it just tough luck?

It's not even just a single case of losing, it's always a loss for me. Should I just go for the Maps?

[silverspawn]

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer to this problem. the strength of early treasure maps depends on a) how much support is there to collide them, b) how good is it to get 4 gold. Both depends heavily on the board, so it's hard to make general statements. However, Treasure maps are not very strong, so you should win the majority of games by ignoring them (and I'm pretty sure only having Seaside + Intrigue doesn't change that). I think this might be similar to playing engines vs BM (Big Money). At the start, you'll lose a lot of games, because money is easier to play, but once you get better, you will start winning a lot.

To give hints for at least a few boards, if there is any one of: minion, hag, ambassador, (fishing village + any draw), (wharf + any village), (torturer + any village), then Treasure maps are most likely a bad idea.

[Drab Emordnilap]

forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12062.0;topicseen

I know this is a long read, but it's worth it, and in part it talks about Treasure Map.

[Awaclus]

Going for Treasure Maps early is almost always an awful idea. Geronimoo's simulator suggests that if you just buy basic Treasure cards and Victory cards and nothing else, you should beat someone who just buys two Treasure Maps, basic Treasure cards and Victory cards and nothing else 2/3 of the time. Any card that supports a big money strategy but doesn't support a Treasure Map strategy just makes it even worse for the Treasure Map player. Go for them if you're already drawing more cards each turn than there are cards in your deck and there's a +buy that you can use.

[blueblimp]

Treasure maps are not very strong, so you should win the majority of games by ignoring them (and I'm pretty sure only having Seaside + Intrigue doesn't change that).

Isn't Warehouse Treasure Map pretty fast? I kinda remember simulators indicating something like that, but it was a while ago. It's certainly an ideal TMap combo in most ways: Warehouse helps you hit $4, helps you connect your Treasure Maps, and helps you find your Gold again after the first Province. (Granted, I only remember the one time that I made the error of not getting a third Treasure Map and one turn cycled through all but one card in my deck, which happened to be the other Treasure Map. That was silly, but atypical for the combo I think.)

[popsofctown]

Physical dominion games take a long time.  The small sample size can give you a false impression like that Treasure Map is good.
I'd pay so much money for a good autoshuffler machine

[Drab Emordnilap]

Physical dominion games take a long time.  The small sample size can give you a false impression like that Treasure Map is good.
I'd pay so much money for a good autoshuffler machine

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Classic-Game-Collection-Manual-Card-Shuffler/17786929

Not responsible for the condition your cards come out in :p

[popsofctown]

Yeah, the "good" in "good autoshuffler" machine included not destroying my card game investments

[pacovf]

Well, you can't make a shuffler without breaking decks.

[popsofctown]

It wasn't meant to be a realistic wish.

[Awaclus]

It wasn't meant to be a realistic wish.

So that your next +cards won't trigger an unwanted reshuffle?

[pacovf]

It wasn't meant to be a realistic wish.

So that your next +cards won't trigger an unwanted reshuffle?

All reshuffles are unwanted if you are using an autoshuffler. The only way to win is not to play.

[popsofctown]

It wasn't meant to be a realistic wish.

So that your next +cards won't trigger an unwanted reshuffle?

Next time I play a Wishing Well in IRL dominion I will wish for Automatic Shuffler 3000 just because of this post