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Author Topic: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat  (Read 26773 times)

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Witherweaver

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Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« on: November 13, 2014, 02:36:59 pm »
0

So anyone have a game they played as a kid that they just got stuck on and couldn't figure out?  I guess this is more appropriate for those born in the 80's or early 90's, before you could just Google any question you had.

I had two:

1) Legend of Zelda II (NES).  All I remember about this game is a ton of confusion on why they moved from top-down to side-scrolling, having no idea what I was supposed to be doing, and constantly dying.

2) Breath of Fire II (SNES).  I really liked this game, a ton.  I actually never owned it, but I remember continually renting it from the store like every weekend and playing it a lot. But I could never get through one of the final dungeons.  I'd get to some plot scene, and the NPC would auto-kill my party (without even moving to battle screen, if I recall correctly), and I'd die.  I could not figure out anywhere else to go. I remember walking around the dungeon trying to figure out how to progress and not being able to find any alternate route. 

I guess if I played either of those games again today they probably wouldn't be an issue (I'd still probably dislike Zelda II though).. when I was playing them I was fairly young so I couldn't necessarily figure everything out. 
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2014, 02:45:53 pm »
+1

I tend to not finish video games just because I get bored with them, although I've never had one I just couldn't beat.  I've beaten some really hard ones though.  SMB: Lost Levels is one, I did a 9-day 50-pikmin run in Pikmin, I beat the first LoZ, and I feel like there's more...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Witherweaver

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2014, 02:57:15 pm »
+1

I tend to not finish video games just because I get bored with them, although I've never had one I just couldn't beat.  I've beaten some really hard ones though.  SMB: Lost Levels is one, I did a 9-day 50-pikmin run in Pikmin, I beat the first LoZ, and I feel like there's more...

Well, I have a number of games I never finished because I wanted to max everything out and it took too long.  Like, almost every Final Fantasy after VII or VIII I never actually beat the final boss.  I guess for Breath of Fire II there was a time limit because I always had to return the game.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2014, 03:00:30 pm »
+1

Actually, the harder the game, I think the more likely I beat it because I want to conquer it...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2014, 03:02:47 pm »
+1

Burger Time
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2014, 03:08:45 pm »
0

So I think after doing some research, I was at the very last boss in Breath of Fire II.  But before an actual battle, there is a dialogue/plot scene in top-down view (as in dungeon exploration.. there is a separate cut to encounters a la Final Fantasy games) where the guy freezes your party.  I guess you have to break out of it by hitting the direction pad or something.  When I was playing, I could never get out of it and I thought the game just kept on locking up and I would always just reset.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2014, 03:20:15 pm »
0

Battletoads for NES. I didn't make it very far in that one.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 03:39:21 pm »
+1

I was looking to see if Asteroids could be beat and the answer is no (although, I know I never made it much past 1 million) but I found this gem:
http://www.wired.com/2010/04/asteroids-record/
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 03:40:54 pm »
+4

There are plenty, but I am going to list only games that I spent a considerable amount of time on and THEN still couldn't beat.

There is plenty of salt here.  If I offended a game you like, sorry.  ¯\(°_o)/¯

SpaceChem - this is a really fun puzzle game with a unique premise (that's very hard to describe).  It's sort of like programming conveyor belts to combine parts and get a desired result.  Anyway, the game's difficulty ramps up considerably and very quickly.  I made it to the fourth set of stages and could not finish them; I lack the skill to do it.  I love the game, though.  It's one of my favorites.  I'm just bad at it. 

Rayman Origins - I enjoyed a lot of things about this game, but when it comes to needing exact precision for long sequences of time, I give up after a certain point.  The final levels of this game are maddening if you aren't that great at platformers.  Probably no worse than, say, Super Meat Boy's, but I barely played that game so I'm not listing it.

Resonance of Fate - I made it to the final boss of this weird tactical RPG, and basically just hit a hump.  My characters literally were incapable of doing enough damage to beat him before he could beat me.  I am actually quite good at JRPGs and the like, but I do not grind in them at all, seeing it as a waste of time.  I googled the ending of this game.  Not proud of it, but I was not going to run through the unskippable final area again to take more cracks at the guy after upgrading my weapons.

Super Mario Bros 2 (Japan) aka The Lost Levels - This game is bull, total bull. 

Dragon Quest II - Pretty much the same story as Resonance of Fate.  The game isn't that hard for 3/4 of the way if you are familiar with the other DQ games, but it takes a sudden turn for the crazy at the end.  The last boss was impenetrable for my party even using savestates, and I just decided it wasn't worth it.

New Little King's Story - I had never been more disappointed in a game, as the original is one of my absolute favorites (if you think there was nothing good on the Wii, give it a try).  NLKS removed almost all of the charm the original had, and I endured it for a long time until it finally got to me and I had to stop.

Mother/Earthbound Zero - I plan to finish this for real some day, but it has a maddening encounter rate that got on my nerves big time after a while.  Recent patches allow one to alleviate this some.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Trigger Warning, Zelda fanboys.  I hated Twilight Princess, thought Phantom Hourglass was mediocre, didn't even bother with Spirit Tracks.  I got this game hoping maybe the new controls would breathe some life in to this series for me, but it turned out they were awful, the overworld was awful, the dungeons were bland, and Fi ruined every surprise the game had.  I made it halfway through the Cistern dungeon and called it quits; just wasn't feeling this game and felt ripped off.  Fortunately, Link Between Worlds saved the series for me and now they're remaking my favorite game in the series, so I have not entirely given up on Zelda after this.  (I did watch footage of the story at the end, and I think it was a bad idea, for the record.  I will say that I regret finishing Metroid: Other M, and my refusal to let that disappointment happen to me again contributed to my hatred for Skyward Sword)

Ys 1 - The last few bosses in this game are the type that require precision I don't have, nothing to see here.  It's a boring game anyway.

Saga 2 (Final Fantasy Legend 2) -  I played to the very end of this game as a kid, but I didn't actually understand the mechanics and lacked the party composition to finish the game.

The Legend of Zelda 1 and 2 - I have played both of these most of the way through multiple times over the years, but at some point I tend to just get bored with them.  Link to the Past fixed most of the issues I had with the first game, and to be frank I am just really bad at Zelda 2.  Love its music, though.

Viewtiful Joe - Too hard for me, even on kids mode

Plants vs zombies 2 - Once it became clear EA had ruined one of my favorite games ever with its greed, I uninstalled this and warned all my friends to never go near it.

Etrian Odyssey 4 - I respect this series a lot more than I like it.  Brutally hard classic-style JRPGs with enormous, confusing dungeons and ridiculous enemy encounters.  I have played 3 and 4, given up on both, but I made it 3/5 of the way through 4.  After a while, it just got taxing on me.  I saw another huge dungeon ahead and couldn't go on.  For the record, I have beaten Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey and other first-person dungeon crawlers, so it's not like I was inexperienced here.  EO simply broke my patience, plain and simple.

Lufia 2 - I am convinced this is the most overrated game on the SNES.  I am an RPG nut and manage to get bored with this game every single time I give it a go.  To each his own, I guess.  I even enjoyed Lufia 1 for the most part.

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 03:50:34 pm »
+1

Goko serf bot.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 04:00:02 pm »
+1

I remember trying to play Myst when I was something like 9 or 10 years old and being utterly disgusted by how hard it was.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 04:03:33 pm »
0

I remember trying to play Myst when I was something like 9 or 10 years old and being utterly disgusted by how hard it was.

I almost listed Myst, but I bought a guide to beat it back then so I can't count it.  Those puzzles are super obscure.  The environments are awesome, but man, it's hard to forgive those designers.  I have often wondered how many people ACTUALLY beat the game without some kind of help.  I can't imagine the number is very high.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2014, 04:08:55 pm »
+1

Had to look up the 120th star for Super Mario 64.  Just couldn't figure it out.  The missing one?  Princess Secret Slide for time.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 04:09:01 pm »
+3

A recent one for me was Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. I tend to like platformers, and I tend to enjoy tricky games, but this one seemed to me to be more punishing than anything else. Like, some platform collapses, or a pillar in the background collapses on you, or an enemy jumps out of nowhere etc and you die. Great, back to a checkpoint one minute ago. And along the way the platforming isn't easy, I'm making a bunch of tricky jumps and stuff to try and not die as I go, and so by the time I actually make it back to the trap that killed me last time, I might have forgotten about it and get caught out again.

The game looks great and I expect it'd be fun to replay through once you know what's going to happen, but that first playthrough wasn't fun for me, and I gave up about 2/3rds of the way through.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Trigger Warning, Zelda fanboys.  I hated Twilight Princess, thought Phantom Hourglass was mediocre, didn't even bother with Spirit Tracks.  I got this game hoping maybe the new controls would breathe some life in to this series for me, but it turned out they were awful, the overworld was awful, the dungeons were bland, and Fi ruined every surprise the game had.  I made it halfway through the Cistern dungeon and called it quits; just wasn't feeling this game and felt ripped off.  Fortunately, Link Between Worlds saved the series for me and now they're remaking my favorite game in the series, so I have not entirely given up on Zelda after this.  (I did watch footage of the story at the end, and I think it was a bad idea, for the record.  I will say that I regret finishing Metroid: Other M, and my refusal to let that disappointment happen to me again contributed to my hatred for Skyward Sword)

I don't mind people disliking Skyward Sword - there's a lot of things it did fairly poorly - most of which you've stated such as the lack of continuous overworld, the travel time between locations, Fi never shutting up ("Master, there is a high probability that the post you are making is just a summary of the post you are quoting, and thus will not gain you any resp-" SHUT UP FI I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AND WANT TO WORK IT OUT MYSELF!) but the controls are really something that can't be faulted. They're highly accurate and responsive for everything except stabs. Now how you feel they were implemented, I can definitely see the argument against as there was an overuse of things dependent on directional slashes - but the actual motion controls are excellent.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 04:18:47 pm »
0

A recent one for me was Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. I tend to like platformers, and I tend to enjoy tricky games, but this one seemed to me to be more punishing than anything else. Like, some platform collapses, or a pillar in the background collapses on you, or an enemy jumps out of nowhere etc and you die. Great, back to a checkpoint one minute ago. And along the way the platforming isn't easy, I'm making a bunch of tricky jumps and stuff to try and not die as I go, and so by the time I actually make it back to the trap that killed me last time, I might have forgotten about it and get caught out again.

The game looks great and I expect it'd be fun to replay through once you know what's going to happen, but that first playthrough wasn't fun for me, and I gave up about 2/3rds of the way through.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Trigger Warning, Zelda fanboys.  I hated Twilight Princess, thought Phantom Hourglass was mediocre, didn't even bother with Spirit Tracks.  I got this game hoping maybe the new controls would breathe some life in to this series for me, but it turned out they were awful, the overworld was awful, the dungeons were bland, and Fi ruined every surprise the game had.  I made it halfway through the Cistern dungeon and called it quits; just wasn't feeling this game and felt ripped off.  Fortunately, Link Between Worlds saved the series for me and now they're remaking my favorite game in the series, so I have not entirely given up on Zelda after this.  (I did watch footage of the story at the end, and I think it was a bad idea, for the record.  I will say that I regret finishing Metroid: Other M, and my refusal to let that disappointment happen to me again contributed to my hatred for Skyward Sword)

I don't mind people disliking Skyward Sword - there's a lot of things it did fairly poorly - most of which you've stated such as the lack of continuous overworld, the travel time between locations, Fi never shutting up ("Master, there is a high probability that the post you are making is just a summary of the post you are quoting, and thus will not gain you any resp-" SHUT UP FI I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING AND WANT TO WORK IT OUT MYSELF!) but the controls are really something that can't be faulted. They're highly accurate and responsive for everything except stabs. Now how you feel they were implemented, I can definitely see the argument against as there was an overuse of things dependent on directional slashes - but the actual motion controls are excellent.

I have to disagree; for me, the controls were pretty inaccurate the whole way through.  Side slashes coming out as forward slashes, Link just not moving the sword now and then, bad swimming controls, the list goes on and on.  Matthewmatosis's review covers most of my issues with the game better than I can actually articulate them (seriously, his reviews are great and everyone should watch them), and one of his key points I particularly agree on is specifically in regards to the controls: in video games, we let a lot of dumb things slide that would be catastrophic failures in any other field.  You could say the controls work well 99% of the time, but we expect most things with this much time put in to them to work more like 99.9% of the time.  In a 40 hour game, that 1% happens a whole lot, even for players who claim the controls work 'perfectly.'  What if a car's steering wheel worked 99% of the time?  Unacceptable, and the worst part is that regular button controls would have sufficed in lieu of motion controls for most of the places Skyward Sword uses them, and those are tried and true, so the motion controls themselves can be seen as a straight downgrade.  I personally hope that Nintendo never uses them in Zelda again, but it seems unlikely to happen.  I don't mean to pick on Zelda specifically, though: Nintendo has goofed up a lot of games by relying on motion controls lately.  Zelda is just where it took the cake for me.

I don't want this to turn in to a SS-bashing thread, there are too many of those on the internet.  I'll rest my case here.
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pacovf

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2014, 04:20:52 pm »
+1

SpaceChem - this is a really fun puzzle game with a unique premise (that's very hard to describe).  It's sort of like programming conveyor belts to combine parts and get a desired result.  Anyway, the game's difficulty ramps up considerably and very quickly.  I made it to the fourth set of stages and could not finish them; I lack the skill to do it.  I love the game, though.  It's one of my favorites.  I'm just bad at it.

Same here, but I think I reached world 5. Maybe 6? I completed the world with the fusion stuff, and it drained me. Absolutely amazing game, and each level you complete makes you feel a surge of adrenaline.
Still, I drown myself trying to find an elegant solution, and the possibilities... so many possibilities... arg.

I would classify it as 2D programming. Everybody ought to try the free demo, your mind will asplode.

Quote
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Trigger Warning, Zelda fanboys.  I hated Twilight Princess, thought Phantom Hourglass was mediocre, didn't even bother with Spirit Tracks.  I got this game hoping maybe the new controls would breathe some life in to this series for me, but it turned out they were awful, the overworld was awful, the dungeons were bland, and Fi ruined every surprise the game had.  I made it halfway through the Cistern dungeon and called it quits; just wasn't feeling this game and felt ripped off.  Fortunately, Link Between Worlds saved the series for me and now they're remaking my favorite game in the series, so I have not entirely given up on Zelda after this.

Spirit tracks was alright, if not world-shattering. Twilight Princess was actually really good mechanically, although the light world - dark world thing gets weary after a while.

Speaking of which, Metroid Prime II is the only Nintendo game I own that I haven't finished because I didn't want to, I think (although it was definitely on the hard side, but I did manage to beat the final boss on a friend's save). Looks like the Light world - Dark world mechanic is hard to do well.

Quote
I will say that I regret finishing Metroid: Other M

I admire Team Ninja trying to make a 3D platformer out of Metroid. Like, really, it is a perfectly logical choice, it just didn't work out very well, and that's fine. But the story... blaaaaarrggghghghg. Oh god no just no what how why no. Only physical-copy game I regret buying. At least Hunters non-story didn't vandalize the universe.

Quote
Plants vs zombies 2 - Once it became clear EA had ruined one of my favorite games ever with its greed, I uninstalled this and warned all my friends to never go near it.

Word.


About games that I couldn't finish back when I was younger...

Fire Emblem (blazing sword). Talk about a cruel game for non experts, giving you characters that start out strong and quickly become outclassed by everything else, siphoning xp away from your useful party members. I also played pseudo-ironman, because I couldn't be bothered to restart missions, so I drove myself into a corner around 75% in.
I did eventually start from scratch again and beat it much later, with some online help.

An obscure one: Spacestation Sillicon Valley, for the N64. Completely incomprehensible for my young kid self. It's gathering dust somewhere.

A shameful one: Pokemon Crystal. I built up a redundant team because cool pokemons, so I couldn't beat the Elite Four shortly after first encounter, and I couldn't bring myself to drop one of my lovely pokemon (Red Gyarados probably) and train another one from scratch. So huh I just went back to kicking butt in Blue or something.

Does not 100%ing Sunshine count? Some of those non-FLUDD levels were Hell...

Can't think of anything else right now.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 04:24:17 pm by pacovf »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2014, 04:38:17 pm »
0

I have a pretty recent one, Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands. The part where you're supposed to open a door using a switch, jump off, enter the door and do some stuff there makes the game pretty difficult, since the game is autosaved after the "jump off" part, and if you ever load that save, the door is no longer open and you can't reach the switch again. Especially since you can't save manually in that game, and each autosave overwrites the previous one. Yep, still mad.  >:(
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2014, 04:55:11 pm »
0

I remember trying to play Myst when I was something like 9 or 10 years old and being utterly disgusted by how hard it was.

I almost listed Myst, but I bought a guide to beat it back then so I can't count it.  Those puzzles are super obscure.  The environments are awesome, but man, it's hard to forgive those designers.  I have often wondered how many people ACTUALLY beat the game without some kind of help.  I can't imagine the number is very high.

Umm....

Well....

1.

>.>

I loved the Myst series of games, and always wished there were more.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2014, 04:58:29 pm »
0

I remember trying to play Myst when I was something like 9 or 10 years old and being utterly disgusted by how hard it was.

I almost listed Myst, but I bought a guide to beat it back then so I can't count it.  Those puzzles are super obscure.  The environments are awesome, but man, it's hard to forgive those designers.  I have often wondered how many people ACTUALLY beat the game without some kind of help.  I can't imagine the number is very high.

Umm....

Well....

1.

>.>

I loved the Myst series of games, and always wished there were more.

Actually, I should amend that slightly.

I always wished there were more sequels when I was younger. I've never actually played IV or V, released in '04 & '05 respectively. By that time I had moved on from the series to other games.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2014, 05:04:08 pm »
0

Fire Emblem (blazing sword). Talk about a cruel game for non experts, giving you characters that start out strong and quickly become outclassed by everything else, siphoning xp away from your useful party members. I also played pseudo-ironman, because I couldn't be bothered to restart missions, so I drove myself into a corner around 75% in.
I did eventually start from scratch again and beat it much later, with some online help.

The funny thing is that these characters (that start out strong but don't grow quickly) are considered both newbie traps and are generally the best characters in the game by expert players.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2014, 05:12:41 pm »
0

Even funnier thing is that FE7 is one of the easier games in the series
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2014, 05:14:54 pm »
0

Fire Emblem (blazing sword). Talk about a cruel game for non experts, giving you characters that start out strong and quickly become outclassed by everything else, siphoning xp away from your useful party members. I also played pseudo-ironman, because I couldn't be bothered to restart missions, so I drove myself into a corner around 75% in.
I did eventually start from scratch again and beat it much later, with some online help.

The funny thing is that these characters (that start out strong but don't grow quickly) are considered both newbie traps and are generally the best characters in the game by expert players.

Interesting. Please, explain.

For example, how is Marcus (from FE VII, mind you) be considered one of the best characters? Just because it can soften up enemies before your rookies deal the killing blow, or carry them so that they don't get killed? Or am I missing something?
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2014, 05:22:11 pm »
+2

Oh, uh, one of the King's Quest... the only one I played.. King's Quest V.  I was still in elementary school I think.. got it with the very first computer my family got, around the same time as Doom and such.  I remember they had a hot-line that you could call and ask questions that we had to use :/  I don't remember how far I got, but I know I never got to the end.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2014, 05:23:31 pm »
+1

I am not as good at FE as dondon (I know this for a fact) but I can illuminate a little bit:

Marcus's base stats (among other prepromos/newbie traps) are high enough that he can in fact carry you through a lot of the game or take out problem units while your 'good' characters gain experience.  The key is in moderation there.  One strategy you could use is to strip Marcus and use him as a meat shield.  He will last a surprising amount of time this way, far past what the developers probably intended.  This makes him considerably stronger than Jeigan-type characters in previous Fire Emblem games, and that trend would continue in future Fire Emblem games. (Seth is a legitimately strong character in 8, Titania is good in 9, etc)

In higher level play like low-turn runs and challenges, Marcus's early ability to move huge numbers of turns and capture guests among other weak units also makes him invaluable.  You can send him with a weapon to get hard-to-collect characters and items, too. 

It's also quite possible to just use him in your main team throughout the entire game.  Sure, he's weaker than Kain/Sent/Lowen in the end, but the early parts of the game were the actual hard part.  Everyone is good once they're promoted.  This is true in a lot of RPGs!   Take FF1.  The reason Thief is such a bad class in spite of Ninja being mostly better than Red Wizard is that the actual hard part of the game was the start, where you were stuck with the Thief.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 05:24:49 pm by jsh357 »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2014, 05:27:26 pm »
+1

A lot of games that i tried but that i found to boring were left uncompleted. Of the ones i actually tried to beat, i remember "Lemmings - the Tribes". The games i probably spent the most time to beat were Banjo-Kazooie, Abe's Oddysee, Crash Bandicoot 3 and Donkey Kong Country 2. Oh, and James Pond 3 and Rolo -to the Rescue. Man, all of those had nasty hidden stuff.

About what other poeple said here: I found Donkey Kong Country - Tropical Freeze a bit more gentle than it's precedessor and overall very enjoyable (though it's a shame it's shorter than DKCR). Can't get myself up to do all the time trials, though.

Also while i see a lot of flaws in Metroid: Other M, i found it more enjoyable than most of the Prime Series (especially that horrible second part... shudder). Probably because i'm a die-hard Super Metroid fan. Fighting    Phantoon  at the end made me cry tears of joy.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2014, 05:27:54 pm »
0

I am not as good at FE as dondon (I know this for a fact) but I can illuminate a little bit:

Marcus's base stats (among other prepromos/newbie traps) are high enough that he can in fact carry you through a lot of the game or take out problem units while your 'good' characters gain experience.  The key is in moderation there.  One strategy you could use is to strip Marcus and use him as a meat shield.  He will last a surprising amount of time this way, far past what the developers probably intended.  This makes him considerably stronger than Jeigan-type characters in previous Fire Emblem games, and that trend would continue in future Fire Emblem games. (Seth is a legitimately strong character in 8, Titania is good in 9, etc)

In higher level play like low-turn runs and challenges, Marcus's early ability to move huge numbers of turns and capture guests among other weak units also makes him invaluable.  You can send him with a weapon to get hard-to-collect characters and items, too. 

It's also quite possible to just use him in your main team throughout the entire game.  Sure, he's weaker than Kain/Sent/Lowen in the end, but the early parts of the game were the actual hard part.  Everyone is good once they're promoted.  This is true in a lot of RPGs!   Take FF1.  The reason Thief is such a bad class in spite of Ninja being mostly better than Red Wizard is that the actual hard part of the game was the start, where you were stuck with the Thief.

Black Belt -> Master Monk is the better example I think :P
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2014, 05:33:24 pm »
0

I got stuck on the final boss of Paper Mario: TTYD for a long time, but I did beat it eventually.

There's a couple games I stopped playing because I wasn't hooked fast enough (Disgaea, FFT). I'm sure they're good, but I didn't want to look up game mechanics, which meant there were so many things I could do that I ended up choosing very few of them.

I haven't beaten A Link to the Past yet. If I remember right, I have a save right outside Ganon's tower, with very few upgrades besides the plot-required ones. I don't have the game with me, but I've been meaning to play it.

For games I haven't beaten because of difficulty, Dustforce and SpaceChem. For SpaceChem, I got stuck on one of the defense missions, the one where you have to power up a laser with a crystal. I think end of 5th or 6th set of levels? I recommend watching some of the videos from SpaceChem tournaments (there's one at http://lparchive.org/SpaceChem-2012-Tournament/), they are ridiculously clever. For Dustforce, I'm still actively going through it, but I don't know if I'm going to try to SS all levels or not. The game is still fun, but I'm on the very last set of levels and it's such a big difficulty spike (final level has been SS-ed by ~150 people ever, out of the 100k+ people who have played the game...)

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2014, 05:38:03 pm »
0

I am not as good at FE as dondon (I know this for a fact) but I can illuminate a little bit:

Marcus's base stats (among other prepromos/newbie traps) are high enough that he can in fact carry you through a lot of the game or take out problem units while your 'good' characters gain experience.  The key is in moderation there.  One strategy you could use is to strip Marcus and use him as a meat shield.  He will last a surprising amount of time this way, far past what the developers probably intended.  This makes him considerably stronger than Jeigan-type characters in previous Fire Emblem games, and that trend would continue in future Fire Emblem games. (Seth is a legitimately strong character in 8, Titania is good in 9, etc)

In higher level play like low-turn runs and challenges, Marcus's early ability to move huge numbers of turns and capture guests among other weak units also makes him invaluable.  You can send him with a weapon to get hard-to-collect characters and items, too. 

It's also quite possible to just use him in your main team throughout the entire game.  Sure, he's weaker than Kain/Sent/Lowen in the end, but the early parts of the game were the actual hard part.  Everyone is good once they're promoted.  This is true in a lot of RPGs!   Take FF1.  The reason Thief is such a bad class in spite of Ninja being mostly better than Red Wizard is that the actual hard part of the game was the start, where you were stuck with the Thief.

I was just surprised by the claim that they were "the best characters in the game by expert players", because once you've got a working knowledge of the mechanics, you can beat the game with pretty much anyone if you focus, and none of the techniques you mentioned look particularly "expert", but rather the logical conclusion of understanding how xp works. I was using them extensively in my third playthrough (hard, training all my units, no arenas).
I would have phrased it as "they are your most useful early game unit", which is true. There are a lot of time sensitive missions that can't be done without Marcus, and he does carry the whole team by himself until you start reaching the high tens.

Low turn-count challenge does shed some light on what he could mean, though.



No longer Number of the Beast...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 06:40:20 pm by pacovf »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2014, 05:41:35 pm »
0

I don't think they are comparable.  Master is significantly better at high levels where his damage is competitive or beats Knight, while if you look at the hard numbers early on, Black Belt doesn't do nearly as much damage as Red Mage or Fighter early on and has no heavy armor to compensate for this.  My conclusion is that the Blackbelt is weak early on and at the end (Unless you grind forever) but strong in the midgame, Red Mage is solid throughout but weak at the very end, and Thief is terrible until near the end of the game.  Thus, Red Mage is the closest Final Fantasy class with a similarity to Marcus.

If you are interested in my reasoning, from examining the difficult portions of the game (Marsh Cave, Earth Cave, Ice Cave, Chaos) it doesn't take much stretching to see who comes out on top at various points.

Black Belt is near useless in the Marsh Cave since his damage is still so low and the Piscodemons have high physical attack power it can't deal with, while Red Mage can tank some shots and use Fire on Creeps.  In fact, BB is basically the same as Thief there since neither is accomplishing too much. 

In the Earth Cave, the Black Belt starts to catch up some in damage, but Thief now has access to weapons obtained from the Magic Key, making him slightly better; he's a Red Mage with no magic.  Red Mage is still above both of them since he has multitarget spells available where you might really need them against Cocatrices and such. 

In the Ice Cave, the danger is mostly enemies that can one-shot you or win on first strikes with MT damage, so any team sucks there anyway.  Seriously.

Finally, against Chaos the Ninja is probably the best overall since it has Haste and can equip good armor.  If you grind out to high levels, Master might beat it, but there's really no need.  Red Wizard does fall behind there since he's basically just a Haste caster/weak attacker at that point in the game.  (Haste is the only valid way of doing mass damage reliably, so it must be considered the most important strategy at that point since Chaos can recover all of his HP at random)
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2014, 05:50:23 pm »
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I don't think they are comparable.  Master is significantly better at high levels where his damage is competitive or beats Knight, while if you look at the hard numbers early on, Black Belt doesn't do nearly as much damage as Red Mage or Fighter early on and has no heavy armor to compensate for this.  My conclusion is that the Blackbelt is weak early on and at the end (Unless you grind forever) but strong in the midgame, Red Mage is solid throughout but weak at the very end, and Thief is terrible until near the end of the game.  Thus, Red Mage is the closest Final Fantasy class with a similarity to Marcus.

If you are interested in my reasoning, from examining the difficult portions of the game (Marsh Cave, Earth Cave, Ice Cave, Chaos) it doesn't take much stretching to see who comes out on top at various points.

Black Belt is near useless in the Marsh Cave since his damage is still so low and the Piscodemons have high physical attack power it can't deal with, while Red Mage can tank some shots and use Fire on Creeps.  In fact, BB is basically the same as Thief there since neither is accomplishing too much. 

In the Earth Cave, the Black Belt starts to catch up some in damage, but Thief now has access to weapons obtained from the Magic Key, making him slightly better; he's a Red Mage with no magic.  Red Mage is still above both of them since he has multitarget spells available where you might really need them against Cocatrices and such. 

In the Ice Cave, the danger is mostly enemies that can one-shot you or win on first strikes with MT damage, so any team sucks there anyway.  Seriously.

Finally, against Chaos the Ninja is probably the best overall since it has Haste and can equip good armor.  If you grind out to high levels, Master might beat it, but there's really no need.  Red Wizard does fall behind there since he's basically just a Haste caster/weak attacker at that point in the game.  (Haste is the only valid way of doing mass damage reliably, so it must be considered the most important strategy at that point since Chaos can recover all of his HP at random)

I consider  Master the best class at the end.  I'm sure his damage output with Haste beats Ninja with Katana (I always give Masamune to White Wizard so he can do damage too), but of course he can't Haste himself.  But I guess I always max out my levels.  Level 50 Master Monk is just a damage machine.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2014, 05:57:15 pm »
0

I am not as good at FE as dondon (I know this for a fact) but I can illuminate a little bit:

Marcus's base stats (among other prepromos/newbie traps) are high enough that he can in fact carry you through a lot of the game or take out problem units while your 'good' characters gain experience.  The key is in moderation there.  One strategy you could use is to strip Marcus and use him as a meat shield.  He will last a surprising amount of time this way, far past what the developers probably intended.  This makes him considerably stronger than Jeigan-type characters in previous Fire Emblem games, and that trend would continue in future Fire Emblem games. (Seth is a legitimately strong character in 8, Titania is good in 9, etc)

In higher level play like low-turn runs and challenges, Marcus's early ability to move huge numbers of turns and capture guests among other weak units also makes him invaluable.  You can send him with a weapon to get hard-to-collect characters and items, too. 

It's also quite possible to just use him in your main team throughout the entire game.  Sure, he's weaker than Kain/Sent/Lowen in the end, but the early parts of the game were the actual hard part.  Everyone is good once they're promoted.  This is true in a lot of RPGs!   Take FF1.  The reason Thief is such a bad class in spite of Ninja being mostly better than Red Wizard is that the actual hard part of the game was the start, where you were stuck with the Thief.

Black Belt -> Master Monk is the better example I think :P

And for clarity, I meant Black Belt -> Master Monk is a better example of bad -> awesome than Thief -> Ninja is.  Thief early on is much better than Black Belt because you can at least equip stuff.  Black Belt doesn't start becoming decent until the 20's.*   End game Ninja has good equipment and some spells (well, Haste), but Master Monk does lots of physical damage.

I agree with the point about Red Mage -> Red Wizard.

(If I recall, Master Monk is something like ATK = 2*Level and DEF = Level.. Black Belt's might be different.  I guess I could look it up.  The real difference maker is number of hits I think.. Master Monks hit a lot.. like 10-12 without Haste at high level?)

EDIT: Actually come to think of it, the progression may be identical for Black Belt and Master.. it might only be the level that matters. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 06:13:48 pm by Witherweaver »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2014, 05:57:53 pm »
0

I never "fairly" completed any of the Mega Drive Sonic games.  I did finish the Sonic 3 half of Sonic 3 and Knuckles by collecting all the chaos emeralds as early as possible and rushing through as Super Sonic.

Desert Strike is one of my favourite games ever and reasonably doable once you get the hang of it.  Jungle Strike is not so great, but also seems to be much harder.  I got stuck at the point where you're flying a plane and have to bomb a target with a pillar behind it (don't try and think too much about the logic of that).  Whatever I tried would result in a crash.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2014, 06:06:24 pm »
0

So looking around, fun video of Master Monk soloing Chaos:



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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2014, 06:44:10 pm »
+1

SpaceChem - this is a really fun puzzle game with a unique premise (that's very hard to describe).  It's sort of like programming conveyor belts to combine parts and get a desired result.  Anyway, the game's difficulty ramps up considerably and very quickly.  I made it to the fourth set of stages and could not finish them; I lack the skill to do it.  I love the game, though.  It's one of my favorites.  I'm just bad at it.

Same here, but I think I reached world 5. Maybe 6? I completed the world with the fusion stuff, and it drained me. Absolutely amazing game, and each level you complete makes you feel a surge of adrenaline.
Still, I drown myself trying to find an elegant solution, and the possibilities... so many possibilities... arg.

I would classify it as 2D programming. Everybody ought to try the free demo, your mind will asplode.
I stalled out near the beginning of world 8, when it asks you to build a molecule that literally fills the entire output area. This discussion is making me want to go back and try again though.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2014, 06:51:46 pm »
+1

Ok. This'll probably sound really lame, but I haven't been able to beat the final level of Braid.
I finished every other level--mostly with no help, but I just can't seem to get the timing on the final level right. I always end up destroyed by the wall of fire while waiting for a goomba to move through a narrow passage. *Sigh*

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2014, 06:52:33 pm »
0

I was just surprised by the claim that they were "the best characters in the game by expert players", because once you've got a working knowledge of the mechanics, you can beat the game with pretty much anyone if you focus, and none of the techniques you mentioned look particularly "expert", but rather the logical conclusion of understanding how xp works. I was using them extensively in my third playthrough (hard, training all my units, no arenas).
I would have phrased it as "they are your most useful early game unit", which is true. There are a lot of time sensitive missions that can't be done without Marcus, and he does carry the whole team by himself until you start reaching the high tens.

Low turn-count challenge does shed some light on what he could mean, though.

jsh is mostly correct; I can't give a good explanation without a lengthy digression into the philosophy behind ranking units, but I'll leave you with these points:

1. It requires more skill to finish the game in fewer turns, so high level play generally indicates a low turncount. There are fewer ways to complete a game quickly than there are to complete a game slowly.

2. Most enemies in FE7 are actually not that tough. Many units are better than Marcus if they were to be compared at the same level, but these differences don't matter if Marcus has no trouble killing enemies to begin with.

3. Marcus starts good and ends good. Most other units aren't that great to begin with.

If you're beating the game more quickly, then one challenge is to maximize the EXP gain of auxiliary units while preserving a low turncount. Other units tend to not be as good in this setting, but because the enemies aren't that great, either, an expert player doesn't really care. The game can be completed reasonably quickly with no growth rates, as I have done before.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 06:54:05 pm by dondon151 »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2014, 07:01:48 pm »
0

I was going to argue that Marcus starts very good and ends mediocre, while 80% of the characters start ok and end very good, but then you go and say:

The game can be completed reasonably quickly with no growth rates, as I have done before.

Ok. Yeah. I couldn't even begin to conceive something like that could be attempted, even less so achieved. We are definitely talking a different language here, so I'll just shut up.  :o
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2014, 07:07:10 pm »
+4

Surprised to see the number of SpaceChem responses. Did anyone else beat it?

Not trying to brag, I'm just surprised. Everyone else here is so much smarter than I am! (Maybe you have better uses for your time as well :P)
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2014, 07:12:12 pm »
+1

Surprised to see the number of SpaceChem responses. Did anyone else beat it?

Not trying to brag, I'm just surprised. Everyone else here is so much smarter than I am! (Maybe you have better uses for your time as well :P)

Obv. I'm no expert but beating it seems like a pretty impressive achievement on its own.  Unless you cheat or something.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2014, 07:50:12 pm »
0

Bodycount. But that was because it was so bad that I couldn't handle playing it anymore.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2014, 08:38:41 pm »
+1

I'd like to believe there aren't many games I couldn't beat, given enough incentive to do so. But there are definitely games that I have given up on due to difficulty. Rather, how fast I give up on a game is a product of difficulty and fun. If a game is really fun, then the difficulty is part of that fun and I'm more likely to beat it. I've beaten and gotten all the achievements for both Prinny games, for instance. A lot of other games I give up on because they're just not fun.

Two games that jump to mind that I would like to have beaten but haven't are Zelda II and the original Mega Man.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2014, 08:56:24 pm »
0

games I can't beat? as if.

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2014, 08:57:25 pm »
+1

Here's one of mine: Ecco the Dolphin: The Tides of Time. That damn medusa level in the skyway got me every time. I saw most of the game with level select codes but I never made it through legit. Maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2014, 09:23:09 pm »
+4

games I can't beat? as if.

I am eager to see you complete Tetris.


At least try to sound modest. Like me. It makes my awesomeness just shine more clearly. Kids these days.
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markusin

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2014, 09:42:47 pm »
+2

As a kid, I would make it a point to beat every game I had. At that time of innocence, I had not encountered a game too bad to not be worthy of completion. Nevertheless, I could not even get close to beating The Bombing Islands. Too kiddy to attract my eye in a game shop, but I got it as a gift from my mom. It turns out to be a very difficult puzzle game. I gave up when I couldn't continue without solutions.

Nowadays, there are lots of games that I don't finish due to lack of interest. The most notable is also a recent one: Xenogears.

[rant]

Supposedly a hidden gem, I would have much preferred they made Xenogears an anime or something. But no, Instead I have to sit there with my controller dutifully pressing the "X" button at the end of every slow-scrolling dialog box. I have never encountered a game with dialog boxes that cannot be sped up which are as slow as the ones in this game. If I accidently talk to the same NPC that results in a 5 dialog box conversation, I have to sit through it all.

Now, I actually liked the story, and reading the spoilers only made me want to finish it more to see how it all plays out (I'm spoiler-phillic like that). It was the gameplay that got to me. The combat system was passable but unexciting, and the gear/mech battles were especially dry. To motivate me to finish it, I was refusing to play Paper Mario for the N64 until I finished Xenogears. Alas, I only got as far as the Shevat air ducts. That was one boring dungeon too many. In fact, I don't think I enjoyed any of the game's dungeons. I ended up beating Paper Mario instead to perk me up after the experience.

I might try to finish this game one day, but I feel the game progresses at a snail's pace, and the second disk apparently only gets more tedious.

[/rant]
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2014, 10:03:29 pm »
0

Games I could beat would be much easier.

GoldenEye
Tiger Woods 2003
Portal
Portal 2
Super Mario 64
Cruis'n USA
Ocrina of Time


I've come close on a bunch more. But this is pretty much it. (Fallout 3, GTAV, and others may count, if we only include "easy" mode)
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Galzria

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2014, 11:23:35 pm »
+1

As a kid, I would make it a point to beat every game I had. At that time of innocence, I had not encountered a game too bad to not be worthy of completion. Nevertheless, I could not even get close to beating The Bombing Islands. Too kiddy to attract my eye in a game shop, but I got it as a gift from my mom. It turns out to be a very difficult puzzle game. I gave up when I couldn't continue without solutions.

Nowadays, there are lots of games that I don't finish due to lack of interest. The most notable is also a recent one: Xenogears.

[rant]

Supposedly a hidden gem, I would have much preferred they made Xenogears an anime or something. But no, Instead I have to sit there with my controller dutifully pressing the "X" button at the end of every slow-scrolling dialog box. I have never encountered a game with dialog boxes that cannot be sped up which are as slow as the ones in this game. If I accidently talk to the same NPC that results in a 5 dialog box conversation, I have to sit through it all.

Now, I actually liked the story, and reading the spoilers only made me want to finish it more to see how it all plays out (I'm spoiler-phillic like that). It was the gameplay that got to me. The combat system was passable but unexciting, and the gear/mech battles were especially dry. To motivate me to finish it, I was refusing to play Paper Mario for the N64 until I finished Xenogears. Alas, I only got as far as the Shevat air ducts. That was one boring dungeon too many. In fact, I don't think I enjoyed any of the game's dungeons. I ended up beating Paper Mario instead to perk me up after the experience.

I might try to finish this game one day, but I feel the game progresses at a snail's pace, and the second disk apparently only gets more tedious.

[/rant]

Xenogears is my #1 game of all time. The only one I've actually cosplayed from, and beaten start to finish at least 4 times (including once this past year on ps vita as a "fond memory").

:D

You're 100% correct that it's 80% slow scrolling dialog. The story is just so damn good it doesn't matter. :P

I can't really say that there are any games that I didn't beat... but growing up I had family that worked at what is effectively a GameStop, and their policy at the time allowed employees to take home games for free for a week at a time... so I had as much time as I needed to actually push through.

Plus, stubbornness runs in my family.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 11:24:40 pm by Galzria »
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TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2014, 12:01:44 am »
+2

I never beat I Wanna Be the Guy but I don't feel like my life is significantly worse for it.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2014, 12:50:46 am »
0

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Trigger Warning, Zelda fanboys.  I hated Twilight Princess, thought Phantom Hourglass was mediocre, didn't even bother with Spirit Tracks.  I got this game hoping maybe the new controls would breathe some life in to this series for me, but it turned out they were awful, the overworld was awful, the dungeons were bland, and Fi ruined every surprise the game had.  I made it halfway through the Cistern dungeon and called it quits; just wasn't feeling this game and felt ripped off.  Fortunately, Link Between Worlds saved the series for me and now they're remaking my favorite game in the series, so I have not entirely given up on Zelda after this.  (I did watch footage of the story at the end, and I think it was a bad idea, for the record.  I will say that I regret finishing Metroid: Other M, and my refusal to let that disappointment happen to me again contributed to my hatred for Skyward Sword)

On the topic of Zeldas:

Link's Awakening - I don't think I ever finished this? Maybe? I seem to remember a really hard boss that I couldn't get past.

Phantom Hourglass - I started it and got bored. I'm not particularly interested in trying to get back into it. I also own Spirit Tracks but if it's anything like Phantom Hourglass then eh.

Link to the Past - I destroyed on a weekly basis as a kid. Hell of a game.

Ocarina of Time - I only recently finished this as I don't remember getting past the Fire Temple as a kid. Very weird.

Majora's Mask - Came out about the time I stopped gaming for a long time and only recently beat it. The release on 3DS might convince me to buy one, although I could (and probably should) just buy the original cart on N64.

Wind Waker - Currently playing through this very slowly with a friend of mine. Loving it so far.

I haven't played Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword but they both look like I wouldn't be into them. A Link Between Worlds looks pretty cool, I'll get to it someday.

Other games I haven't finished:

Super Metroid - I don't remember ever finishing this. I think even though I remember loving this game it was just a little too hard and maybe a little too creepy for me at the time.

Zombie Ate My Neighbors - A personal favorite but such a hard game.

Chrono Chross - Got stuck on a ridiculously hard boss and just gave up.

Banjo Kazooie - I played it a little bit as a kid and picked it up again not too long ago. I got to Mad Monster Mansion and just got bored with it. I don't understand why people love this game so much. Give me Super Mario 64 any day.

Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - Boring.

Oh, I just looked at the title of this thread to see "...Couldn't Beat" and not "...Didn't Finish". I'll stop wasting your time now. Good day.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 01:01:19 am by AndrewisFTTW »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2014, 12:54:09 am »
+1

Quote
Majora's Mask - Came out about the time I stopped gaming for a long time and only recently beat it. It's release on 3DS might convince me to buy one, although I could (and probably should) just buy the original cart on N64.
Good luck. I'm still on Day 2.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2014, 06:07:02 am »
+3

Banjo Kazooie - I played it a little bit as a kid and picked it up again not too long ago. I got to Mad Monster Mansion and just got bored with it. I don't understand why people love this game so much. Give me Super Mario 64 any day.

I'm getting my torch and pitchfork.
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Polk5440

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2014, 08:46:13 am »
0

OH, right. Major'a Mask. That was the one Zelda game growing up I didn't finish. Got through the first two temples and got really bored with it. I hated having to keep re-doing things if I didn't get the sequence right before the end of the third day. It was cute for a while -- the opening of the game was amazing -- but I realized I had better things to do.

I recently played through MM when I got it on virtual console for Wii (for free; it was a club Nintendo promo at one point!!), and I made it all the way through.

It's weird, MM has the best story of all the LoZs but in my opinion was the most frustrating, least fun game to play.

I am all about Skyward Sword. I am a motion control believer. I never had a problem once and I loved that there were fewer enemies and the ones that were there took patience and a deliberate attack to defeat. (I hate hack and slash). In contrast to what someone said earlier, the Cistern was my favorite dungeon -- just WOW. I loved it. It was a shame that the game couldn't have been in HD. It looked dated when it came out. I would totally buy an HD remake of SS if they did something like WW.

But yeah, motion control when done right was amazing. SS, Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. How can you go back to just buttons?
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2014, 09:45:17 am »
0

Eh, "Couldn't Beat" and "Didn't Finish" are almost the same.. I mean we could all beat every (beatable) game given time and willingness. 

My main thought with this thread was.. I played a lot of games as a kid in the PC, NES, SNES, Sega, Playstation lines.  Some of them I hit a block that I couldn't figure out at the time, so I moved on and never found my way back to completing them. 

I also remember hitting a really tough boss at the end of Lagoon. I don't remember if I ever got past him.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2014, 09:52:52 am »
0

I also remember hitting a really tough boss at the end of Lagoon. I don't remember if I ever got past him.

God, Lagoon was so awful. No hit detection at all. I can't remember whether I was masochistic enough to beat it as a kid, but it would have been as a rental. I definitely never owned it.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2014, 09:56:44 am »
0

Oh, Witherweaver, I'm in a similar boat with getting almost to the end of Breath of Fire II multiple times. I'm not sure I ever made it quite to the scene you describe, but close. If you ever play Breath of Fire II again, I strongly recommend playing it emulated so that you can use this translation patch. It makes the game so much better. The official translation is just a train wreck.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2014, 09:57:18 am »
0

Oh, Witherweaver, I'm in a similar boat with getting almost to the end of Breath of Fire II multiple times. I'm not sure I ever made it quite to the scene you describe, but close. If you ever play Breath of Fire II again, I strongly recommend playing it emulated so that you can use this translation patch. It makes the game so much better. The official translation is just a train wreck.

I'm tempted to go get an emulator now!
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2014, 10:13:13 am »
0

Thinking about Lagoon reminded me of Illusion of Gaia.    Maybe their playstyles similar or I played them around the same time.  I never got stuck on Illusion of Gaia, though, I beat the hell out of it.  That was a fun one.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2014, 10:45:17 am »
0

Eh, "Couldn't Beat" and "Didn't Finish" are almost the same.. I mean we could all beat every (beatable) game given time and willingness. 

Right. Then for me, just Battletoads. The only one I legit. couldn't beat.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2014, 10:48:33 am »
0

Eh, "Couldn't Beat" and "Didn't Finish" are almost the same.. I mean we could all beat every (beatable) game given time and willingness. 

Right. Then for me, just Battletoads. The only one I legit. couldn't beat.

Well pretty much every NES game (except the marios) were pretty impossible. Throwing controllers across the room as I'm sure we all did in that era should not be a reaction anyone has, even kids.

That said,  all those arcade games were meant to be really hard like Battletoads, TMNT 2 (which I played all the time but probably never beat), The Simpsons, etc.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 10:50:28 am by AndrewisFTTW »
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Witherweaver

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2014, 10:51:30 am »
0

Eh, "Couldn't Beat" and "Didn't Finish" are almost the same.. I mean we could all beat every (beatable) game given time and willingness. 

Right. Then for me, just Battletoads. The only one I legit. couldn't beat.

Yeah I don't remember how far I got with this one, though I'm pretty sure I never beat it.  I hated finite-life saveless progression games where you had to start over from the beginning every time.  I mostly focused on playing RPGs.
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AHoppy

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2014, 10:51:44 am »
0

I got spacechem a few weeks ago and I'm on the world 4 boss. Love the game, but sometimes it's just so hard.  I have a hard time visualizing how to optimize my programs, but doesn't matter, still so much fun.  I haven't gotten any of the optional missions yet either... I should go play more spacechem

Re: Zelda
Loved wind waker, loved twilight princess, meh on skyward sword.  Never finished skyward sword.  I wanted to get the hylian shield before facing the final boss and the boss run was too hard so I stopped.  MM was kinda cool, but too frustrating. 

Myst:
Yeah, couldn't finish that w/o help.  But they were so cool.  I backed [urlhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cyaninc/obduction]Obduction[/url] when it was on kickstarter.  Hopefully that's also really good

Witherweaver

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2014, 10:52:08 am »
0

Eh, "Couldn't Beat" and "Didn't Finish" are almost the same.. I mean we could all beat every (beatable) game given time and willingness. 

Right. Then for me, just Battletoads. The only one I legit. couldn't beat.

Well pretty much every NES game (except the marios) were pretty impossible. Throwing controllers across the room as I'm sure we all did in that era should not be a reaction anyone has, even kids.

That said,  all those arcade games were meant to be really hard like Battletoads, TMNT 2 (which I played all the time but probably never beat), The Simpsons, etc.

Ah,  yeah, the TMNT NES game.  That was hard as hell.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2014, 10:53:53 am »
0

Oh... getting FFX ultimate weapons almost counts for this.  Fuck that butterfly chasing one.  I got so pissed.
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Galzria

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2014, 11:26:22 am »
0

Oh... getting FFX ultimate weapons almost counts for this.  Fuck that butterfly chasing one.  I got so pissed.

Butterfly wasn't hard. Screw dodging lightning bolts.

However I did beat Penance, which was fun.
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Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

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Galzria

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2014, 11:27:54 am »
0

I DO remember beating TMNT, however I also remember flinging controllers over it...
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2014, 11:32:57 am »
0

Oh... getting FFX ultimate weapons almost counts for this.  Fuck that butterfly chasing one.  I got so pissed.

Butterfly wasn't hard. Screw dodging lightning bolts.

However I did beat Penance, which was fun.

Of the butterflies, lightning bolts and Chocobo racing I had most trouble with the butterflies.  I think I did everything else, but Zanmato would have been involved in all the cases where Dark Aeons needed shifting.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2014, 11:33:17 am »
0

Oh... getting FFX ultimate weapons almost counts for this.  Fuck that butterfly chasing one.  I got so pissed.

Butterfly wasn't hard. Screw dodging lightning bolts.

However I did beat Penance, which was fun.

Both of them made me want to kill things.  I gave up on both.
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Galzria

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2014, 11:57:00 am »
0

Oh... getting FFX ultimate weapons almost counts for this.  Fuck that butterfly chasing one.  I got so pissed.

Butterfly wasn't hard. Screw dodging lightning bolts.

However I did beat Penance, which was fun.

Of the butterflies, lightning bolts and Chocobo racing I had most trouble with the butterflies.  I think I did everything else, but Zanmato would have been involved in all the cases where Dark Aeons needed shifting.

Racing took me like, 10 tries, but I know I got ridiculously lucky. I could never come close to my record after it was set.

I didn't use Zanmato. I could never figure out the rng that made him tick. Instead I lived inside the Monster cave until I had maxed out everybody's board (except for Riku and Kimahri. Didn't care for the Mixes or "blue magic" mechanics).

I think my record for dodging lightning was 4 though. That was just terrible.

I never beat FFX-2. But that was due to losing interest. I like doing and getting everything. Having to walk the entire world over and over and over each chapter to make sure I'm not missing anything drove me insane. The storyline itself wasn't enough to drive me onward between the hours long gap of exploring (the same places) again and again.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 11:58:07 am by Galzria »
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

AndrewisFTTW

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2014, 12:03:35 pm »
0

So I'm curious why some people love Twilight Princess and some hate it. My girlfriend owns a Wii so I COULD buy it but I'm holding off for now. I watched some of it on youtube and it seems like the beginning of the game just drags on and on and on and I feel like I'd get bored real quick.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2014, 12:05:45 pm »
0

I let FFX stall when I was going through the Monster cave and deleting ALL my sphere's for the +MAX ones in every category.  I was progressing decently, but it takes a while... Maybe when I'm 80 and retired I'll go back to doing that...

FFX-2 I stopped somewhere around one of the final dungeons. 

I'm the same way, I want to go through and max out everything.. Level 99, all items, all equipment, all powers, etc.  That's why the extra games in the later FFs annoyed me.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2014, 12:44:30 pm »
0

I reference to the original question(games you couldn't beat as a kid)

I know that we* couldn't beat Stanley livingston, the jungle book, and the lion king for snes.

For Stanley Livingston we literally couldn't get past the first screen. You see a little cutscenes, walk off a boat onto an your off on your adventure. Then there is an impenetrable wall that blocked you from progressing. Years later we realized you simply had to walk back on to the boat to get the grappling hook...

Lion king we made it much much much farther though similarly after completing almost the entire game we got stuck on a level that seemingly ended with an impassable ocean of lava. I believe we either needed to reach that point faster or do some kind of role jump to get farther.

Jungle book was just really hard...

*by we I mean robz playing and me watching. I'm strange in that I enjoy watching games possibly more than playing. I am a pretty active watcher though, you best believe robz never missed a Zelda bomb crack on my watch. Discolored wall pixels, I'm all over that!
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2014, 01:39:24 pm »
0

I didn't use Zanmato. I could never figure out the rng that made him tick. Instead I lived inside the Monster cave until I had maxed out everybody's board (except for Riku and Kimahri. Didn't care for the Mixes or "blue magic" mechanics).

I think my record for dodging lightning was 4 though. That was just terrible.

I never beat FFX-2. But that was due to losing interest. I like doing and getting everything. Having to walk the entire world over and over and over each chapter to make sure I'm not missing anything drove me insane. The storyline itself wasn't enough to drive me onward between the hours long gap of exploring (the same places) again and again.

Zanmato is pretty easy to get: if you Grand Summon Yojimbo and give him some not ridiculously large sum of money then you'll get one within not too many resets.

The Thunder Plains took a while, but are OK once you get into it.  You "just" need to not lose concentration for the 45 minutes or however long it takes.

I've also stalled on X-2 (as well as 8, and everything before 7).
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2014, 01:47:52 pm »
+1

So I'm curious why some people love Twilight Princess and some hate it. My girlfriend owns a Wii so I COULD buy it but I'm holding off for now. I watched some of it on youtube and it seems like the beginning of the game just drags on and on and on and I feel like I'd get bored real quick.

I think part of it is the two different versions. It was built for Gamecube, and in my opinion, that is how it should be played. The motion controls on the Wii version are not perfect, yet, (can't do the hack-and-slash bits as well as with buttons) and the fact that they simply mirrored the entire game to make Link right handed makes the experience a little different, too.

The light/dark thing bothered some but not others.

The beginning of the game (first, say, 45-60 minutes) is a little slow because you are not introduced to the core plot devices right away.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2014, 01:55:23 pm »
+1

I will say one good thing about the Wii version of Twilight Princess: the remote is great for aiming arrows, etc. There's this part in the game where these kids challenge you to hit a post clear across town. When you miss, one of them sells you an item that allows you to zoom in while you aim; basically a scope for your bow. Only I didn't miss the first time, thanks to the Wii-mote's pinpoint accuracy, so the kid never tried to sell it to me. Later in the game I happenned to wander into the shop and I bought the scope then.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2014, 03:19:17 pm »
0

Going waaaay back, one of the Lands of Lore series proved to be too much for me. I remember getting pretty far, but reaching a point where I was simply overwhelmed by endlessly spawning spiders.

I don't know if I beat all of the Kings Quest series either, although I remember that I loved playing them.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2014, 03:28:04 pm »
0

I also remember a game that I simply couldn't beat, because I couldn't master a sequence of keys that had to be hit at exactly the right moment.

I want to say that the game was Hero's Quest (renamed Quest for Glory). I know that I played HQ, I just don't recall if it's the one I'm thinking of above.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2014, 03:31:04 pm »
+1

I also remember a game that I simply couldn't beat, because I couldn't master a sequence of keys that had to be hit at exactly the right moment.

I want to say that the game was Hero's Quest (renamed Quest for Glory). I know that I played HQ, I just don't recall if it's the one I'm thinking of above.

Ah! Scratch that. HQ (QfG) I played the series and beat most of. The game I COULDN'T beat was Dragon's Lair.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2014, 03:49:09 pm »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2014, 04:14:44 pm »
0

 Anyone remember the Goonies on NES?

Not only did it have nothing to do with the movie (no one eyed Willy or Super Sloth), it was impossible to figure out what you had to do.

I remember crossing a bridge with flying medusa style bats over and over again and using a hammer on a random wall in a random room.

That game was weird. I'm pretty sure they picked an already finished game and rebranded it, but I have no clue what they were going for.

I rented it from time to time but obviously never finished it.

And I never finished Sim City on SNES. Would that game go to a kill screen if you get to year 9999?
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #80 on: November 14, 2014, 04:17:58 pm »
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And I never finished Sim City on SNES. Would that game go to a kill screen if you get to year 9999?

The point of the game is to build a megalopolis.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2014, 04:28:26 pm »
0

Anyone remember the Goonies on NES?

Not only did it have nothing to do with the movie (no one eyed Willy or Super Sloth), it was impossible to figure out what you had to do.

I remember crossing a bridge with flying medusa style bats over and over again and using a hammer on a random wall in a random room.

That game was weird. I'm pretty sure they picked an already finished game and rebranded it, but I have no clue what they were going for.

I rented it from time to time but obviously never finished it.

And I never finished Sim City on SNES. Would that game go to a kill screen if you get to year 9999?

Ooooh.. what about Friday the 13th on NES?  I remember being unable to beat that.

And Sim City I'd always flatten out before Megalopolis, even though the entire land was developed and airports were downgraded so minimal pollution, no taxes, rails instead of roads, etc.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2014, 04:31:28 pm »
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And Sim City I'd always flatten out before Megalopolis, even though the entire land was developed and airports were downgraded so minimal pollution, no taxes, rails instead of roads, etc.

There's actually something in the instruction manual that shows how you can squeeze more stuff in (as zones are developing, you can demolish the outsides and build over them and no problems happen).  They explicitly say it's not cheating.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #83 on: November 15, 2014, 06:33:45 pm »
+1

And Sim City I'd always flatten out before Megalopolis, even though the entire land was developed and airports were downgraded so minimal pollution, no taxes, rails instead of roads, etc.

There's actually something in the instruction manual that shows how you can squeeze more stuff in (as zones are developing, you can demolish the outsides and build over them and no problems happen).  They explicitly say it's not cheating.

Of course it isn't. It severely limits how much the demolished zone can develop, so it has a significant downside as well as an upside.

Also, Sim City can be speedrun. Megalopolis in about 40 minutes, I believe, by utilising a glitch to get infinite money (they don't explicitly say this isn't cheating).

Even funnier thing is that FE7 is one of the easier games in the series

Eh... on it's lowest difficulty, perhaps, but most FEs aren't too hard on Normal/whatever their easiest happens to be. Like, okay, they're somewhat tough to new players, but generally as long as you pay attention to what the enemy is packing and plan ahead a little you're going to be fine. On it's highest difficulty FE7 is fairly middling I'd say. Even of the English releases it's around the middle (harder than FE8 (Sacred Stones) and FE9 (Path of Radiance), much easier than FE13 (Awakening) and FE11 (Shadow Dragon), and... about equal, perhaps a little easier, than FE10 (Radiant Dawn).

Also on the topic of Fire Emblem games, since I saw a few people mention them on page 1, the reason Marcus is so good isn't that he starts strong and helps build your team - it's that he's consistently good throughout the entire game. FE7 enemies, even on it's hard modes, aren't very strong, they're just high in numbers, and Marcus still beats them easily even later in the game. Yes, he can't take on as many at once as perhaps a trained Kent or Sain, and is a little worse against the promoted enemies, but he still rips through enemies just fine. On the lower difficulties in fact, he can still smash through enemies easily on the final few chapters! (And even on the higher difficulties, you can still use him at base level, although he's obviously much less effective).
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #84 on: November 15, 2014, 07:15:28 pm »
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Yes, he can't take on as many at once as perhaps a trained Kent or Sain, and is a little worse against the promoted enemies, but he still rips through enemies just fine.

See, the problem with this reasoning is that you are assuming that if you've got a guy that can deal with 5 guys by himself from the start, and another that can deal with 20 guys by himself after you've handicapped yourself for 2/3 of the game by redirecting xp to him, I am going to pick the first. I am the kind of guy that gives Hector an iron sword and nothing else once he promotes :P
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #85 on: November 15, 2014, 07:53:52 pm »
+1

Yes, he can't take on as many at once as perhaps a trained Kent or Sain, and is a little worse against the promoted enemies, but he still rips through enemies just fine.

See, the problem with this reasoning is that you are assuming that if you've got a guy that can deal with 5 guys by himself from the start, and another that can deal with 20 guys by himself after you've handicapped yourself for 2/3 of the game by redirecting xp to him, I am going to pick the first. I am the kind of guy that gives Hector an iron sword and nothing else once he promotes :P

So the problem with the reasoning is that you assume the player plays rationally?

Edit: Or perhaps a better way of saying it would be, assuming the player plays to minimise difficulty on themself. That's ultimately what good FE players aim to do - take the strategy which is easiest to execute and has the lowest risk of death. There was a dark period in FE history where it was considered that 'top' players were the ones who could get the lowest turn counts, but I think we've gotten over that phase now.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 07:56:16 pm by Tables »
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #86 on: November 15, 2014, 08:05:29 pm »
0

Yes, he can't take on as many at once as perhaps a trained Kent or Sain, and is a little worse against the promoted enemies, but he still rips through enemies just fine.

See, the problem with this reasoning is that you are assuming that if you've got a guy that can deal with 5 guys by himself from the start, and another that can deal with 20 guys by himself after you've handicapped yourself for 2/3 of the game by redirecting xp to him, I am going to pick the first. I am the kind of guy that gives Hector an iron sword and nothing else once he promotes :P

So the problem with the reasoning is that you assume the player plays rationally?

Edit: Or perhaps a better way of saying it would be, assuming the player plays to minimise difficulty on themself. That's ultimately what good FE players aim to do - take the strategy which is easiest to execute and has the lowest risk of death. There was a dark period in FE history where it was considered that 'top' players were the ones who could get the lowest turn counts, but I think we've gotten over that phase now.

I was being tongue-in-cheek. FE is a strategy-RPG (emphasis mine), which means some unstable individuals like -huh- this friend of mine I know that is totes not me, will twist the objective into have-the-most-superpowered-team-by-the-time-you-reach-the-last-level, even if that means making the game considerably harder for themselves. There's a reason characters like Nino exist: the devs know some people enjoy powergaming, even when the cost is huge and the benefits marginal.

...I'm mostly using FE7 names because that's the first one I ever played, I know there are earlier examples of those archetypes.

EDIT: note though, in a game like FE, assuming the players will play rationally is not the best assumption. A lot of players will choose characters because they are cool, and leave others out because they are plain annoying (cf. Pokemon). That doesn't mean that you should let players do sub-optimal choices, but considering the amount of characters, the possibility of permadeath, and that you are bound to miss out on characters during your first playthrough, character choice can seem fairly random when out of context.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 08:14:03 pm by pacovf »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #87 on: November 15, 2014, 08:07:39 pm »
0

And Sim City I'd always flatten out before Megalopolis, even though the entire land was developed and airports were downgraded so minimal pollution, no taxes, rails instead of roads, etc.

There's actually something in the instruction manual that shows how you can squeeze more stuff in (as zones are developing, you can demolish the outsides and build over them and no problems happen).  They explicitly say it's not cheating.

I did this.  And I destroyed most of Airport/Power Plants (only Nuclear) for less polution/space. (You can let a fire destroy most of it so only a couple squares remain.  I used the infinite money trick as well.  But I'd always level at at something like 350,000 or 400,000 people.. never hit Megalopolis.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #88 on: November 15, 2014, 08:24:53 pm »
+1

There was a dark period in FE history where it was considered that 'top' players were the ones who could get the lowest turn counts, but I think we've gotten over that phase now.

Isn't that still the case? I'd consider Chiki to be one of the best players in the FE community, and he has the LTC records on a few of the games. He's definitely smart enough to quantify risk if asked to. General Horace and PKL are very good, too.

EDIT: note though, in a game like FE, assuming the players will play rationally is not the best assumption. A lot of players will choose characters because they are cool, and leave others out because they are plain annoying (cf. Pokemon).

This is true, but if you want to talk about what units are "good" on a more objective basis (complete objectivity in this domain is impossible), then assuming an irrational player is shooting yourself in the foot.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #89 on: November 15, 2014, 08:30:36 pm »
+1

EDIT: note though, in a game like FE, assuming the players will play rationally is not the best assumption. A lot of players will choose characters because they are cool, and leave others out because they are plain annoying (cf. Pokemon). That doesn't mean that you should let players do sub-optimal choices, but considering the amount of characters, the possibility of permadeath, and that you are bound to miss out on characters during your first playthrough, character choice can seem fairly random when out of context.

So, now, this is where we cross over from determining preference to determining better. A lot of people like certain characters - I almost always train Ross (in FE8) and often train Donnel (in FE13) because I enjoy using them. I do however acknowledge that I'm essentially handicapping myself by choosing to use those units, since they're generally poor characters gameplay wise. If we want to determine which of two characters is better, we need to look past that subjective bias and compare them as objectively as possible. It's rare that we can outright say one character is objectively better than another, but we can at least make statistical comparisons and judge that one persons advantages are better than another, and so on.

PPE: @Dondon - There's definitely overlap between players who are good at LTC and players who are good in general, but you're confusing correlation with causation here. Like, I don't think I've ever seen Vykan do any LTC stuff, but he's one of the best in the community. And not to toot my own horn, but ever since I actually tried to do it and realised how much RNG (manipulation or genuinely) there was in getting the best possible turn counts, I've disliked LTC, but I'm still highly respected.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #90 on: November 15, 2014, 08:56:04 pm »
0

This is true, but if you want to talk about what units are "good" on a more objective basis (complete objectivity in this domain is impossible), then assuming an irrational player is shooting yourself in the foot.

So, now, this is where we cross over from determining preference to determining better. A lot of people like certain characters - I almost always train Ross (in FE8) and often train Donnel (in FE13) because I enjoy using them. I do however acknowledge that I'm essentially handicapping myself by choosing to use those units, since they're generally poor characters gameplay wise. If we want to determine which of two characters is better, we need to look past that subjective bias and compare them as objectively as possible. It's rare that we can outright say one character is objectively better than another, but we can at least make statistical comparisons and judge that one persons advantages are better than another, and so on.

Definitely! My point was mainly that the only objective we can 100% agree on is that a good character is one you can beat the game with. But that is a fairly weak condition, since the game is designed so that you can beat it with anyone: there is a lot of roleplaying involved (there's friggin' marriage!) and since you aren't expected to only be able to beat the game if you munchkin the hell out of it (I am going to spend two hours training my guys in the arena, hurhur), all characters must be at least viable (I am talking about the recent games, maybe it wasn't this way back in the old days).

So you have to add extra "artificial" conditions to define "good" characters. A low turn count, a reliably lower difficulty, or superpowering your team are, in my mind, all valid arguments to define "better" characters, but the ensuing rankings will be quite different.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2014, 05:32:54 am »
+1

Yeah, to some degree there's no obvious way of defining what makes a character better. I think that the most intuitive is who makes the game easiest, since that's what people aim to do in the game. If you feel that, say, LTC is the only valid way of comparing characters, that's simply a very closed minded view on comparing characters. That's the main issue I've always had.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #92 on: November 19, 2014, 08:25:07 pm »
+1

Sorry, I couldn't do this earlier because something was blocking memegenerator, but...

Surprised to see the number of SpaceChem responses. Did anyone else beat it?

Not trying to brag



:P
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #93 on: November 19, 2014, 08:41:01 pm »
+4

I can also beat all the Fire Emblem games. Simultaneously. While blindfolded and doing push-ups the whole time.
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Davio

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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #94 on: November 20, 2014, 04:44:50 am »
+1

I could never beat the story mode of Super Smash Bros Wii (Brawl?).

That last boss was ridiculously hard for me. He had some attacks I could never dodge.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #95 on: November 20, 2014, 11:58:09 am »
0

I could never beat the story mode of Super Smash Bros Wii (Brawl?).

That last boss was ridiculously hard for me. He had some attacks I could never dodge.

I've managed to beat him on normal when soloing the boss rush, but I've never managed to beat him in 2p boss rush with my sister on anything higher than super easy. She's reasonably good, mind you, but the odds that we will both dodge his "Die NOW" attack are rather slim.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 01:12:51 pm by pacovf »
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #96 on: November 20, 2014, 09:46:44 pm »
0

Now that I think of it. I never beat all the Challenges in Perfect Dark's multiplayer vs the bots.
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Re: Video Games that You Just Couldn't Beat
« Reply #97 on: November 20, 2014, 10:10:12 pm »
0

I haven't gotten 1st place on Mirror All Cups for MK:Double Dash now that I think about it. I used to play it with my brother, and he usually got 1st while I got 2nd or 3rd.
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