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[Donald X.]

What if you Procession a Procession that is doubling a Duration?

Going by 2), the first Procession should be discarded.  But now you have a Duration effect coming up on your next turn that isn't being marked by either its doubler or the card itself.

Yes, Procession can result in an upcoming effect that isn't tracked by anything. I knew Procession was an issue with duration cards but decided to do the card anyway. Try not to forget any unresolved duration effects, that's my advice. You can also have multiple Possessions you have to remember with no tracking. And the names are similar - Procession, Possession. That can't be a coincidence.

[GendoIkari]

But Scheme is a "may", not a "must". You can always choose to scheme nothing. I can't imagine any scenario where scheming a first-turn duration is different from scheming nothing at all,

Advisor's Pal: Action - Duration, $5
Now and at the start of your next turn, +1 Card and +$1.
----------
When you choose this card, gain a Gold.

Strict Peddler: Action, $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
This turn, optional abilities are mandatory.

(Can't believe I didn't see this 2 weeks ago)

Are these the previews for the new set?? 

[pacovf]

But Scheme is a "may", not a "must". You can always choose to scheme nothing. I can't imagine any scenario where scheming a first-turn duration is different from scheming nothing at all,

Advisor's Pal: Action - Duration, $5
Now and at the start of your next turn, +1 Card and +$1.
----------
When you choose this card, gain a Gold.

Strict Peddler: Action, $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
This turn, optional abilities are mandatory.

(Can't believe I didn't see this 2 weeks ago)

Are these the previews for the new set?? 

Not at all! Donald wouldn't leak cards. The real cards are...


Strict Advisor: Action - Duration, $5
Now and at the start of your next turns, +1 Card and +1$.
--------
While this card is in play, optional abilities are mandatory.


Peddler's pal: Action, $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
------------
When you choose this card, gain a Gold.

[Asper]

Peddler's pal: Action, $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1
------------
When you choose this card, gain a Gold.

Peddler's Pal, i choose you!
*throws Pokéball*
*gains Gold*
Peddle! Peddle!
*Peddler's Pal draws a card, gets an action and provides a coin*
*It's very effective*

[sudgy]

So, finally actually programming Outpost, I have a couple things:

1. You were saying that when you Throne an Outpost, when the time comes you can choose which Outpost to resolve first.  They both still stay out though until later and they're both discarded at the same time still, right?

2. I'm not quite sure the ruling saying that if you play multiple Outposts that the others stay out that long is the best interpretation.  Outpost says to "Take an extra turn after this one."  So, if you played five Outposts, they would all be fighting to take an extra turn, but only this next one.  After that turn starts, all of those Outposts are done because they aren't trying to take an extra turn, but just an extra turn after the one they were played on.  Since they have nothing more to do, they should get discarded at the next clean-up phase (the Outpost turn's).  If you play an Outpost on an extra turn (Outpost or otherwise), then they stay out until the next player's clean-up phase like you said.

[Deadlock39]

I think that depends on interpretation, because, well, if I play two Outposts, then after the first Outpost turn is still "after this one".  Just because the first one resolved doesn't mean the other one doesn't still want to resolve. Possession also says "after this one" but it can still make more than one turn happen.  Outpost just fails if it tries (and well, Possession isn't a duration, so they aren't really quite the same I guess, but anyway...).

In another way: There are two Outposts resolving at the same time, so you pick which one is first.  You resolve the one you picked to be first, and then you resolve the other one.  The first one causes you to take a turn between those things happening, but the resolution of the second Outpost is still pending.

[Simon (DK)]

Remember that if you play an Outpost on your Outpost turn, then you still have to draw only 3 cards in your clean up phase.

[Donald X.]

1. You were saying that when you Throne an Outpost, when the time comes you can choose which Outpost to resolve first.  They both still stay out though until later and they're both discarded at the same time still, right?

Both stay as prev. discussed.

2. I'm not quite sure the ruling saying that if you play multiple Outposts that the others stay out that long is the best interpretation.  Outpost says to "Take an extra turn after this one."  So, if you played five Outposts, they would all be fighting to take an extra turn, but only this next one.  After that turn starts, all of those Outposts are done because they aren't trying to take an extra turn, but just an extra turn after the one they were played on.  Since they have nothing more to do, they should get discarded at the next clean-up phase (the Outpost turn's).  If you play an Outpost on an extra turn (Outpost or otherwise), then they stay out until the next player's clean-up phase like you said.

No no no. You are reading stuff into "after this one." Possession says "after this one" but all the turns happen.

[GendoIkari]

2. I'm not quite sure the ruling saying that if you play multiple Outposts that the others stay out that long is the best interpretation.  Outpost says to "Take an extra turn after this one."  So, if you played five Outposts, they would all be fighting to take an extra turn, but only this next one.  After that turn starts, all of those Outposts are done because they aren't trying to take an extra turn, but just an extra turn after the one they were played on.  Since they have nothing more to do, they should get discarded at the next clean-up phase (the Outpost turn's).  If you play an Outpost on an extra turn (Outpost or otherwise), then they stay out until the next player's clean-up phase like you said.

No no no. You are reading stuff into "after this one." Possession says "after this one" but all the turns happen.

Worth noting that MTG also says "Take an extra turn after this one", but if you play 2 Time Walks, you still get 2 extra turns.

[Asper]

2. I'm not quite sure the ruling saying that if you play multiple Outposts that the others stay out that long is the best interpretation.  Outpost says to "Take an extra turn after this one."  So, if you played five Outposts, they would all be fighting to take an extra turn, but only this next one.  After that turn starts, all of those Outposts are done because they aren't trying to take an extra turn, but just an extra turn after the one they were played on.  Since they have nothing more to do, they should get discarded at the next clean-up phase (the Outpost turn's).  If you play an Outpost on an extra turn (Outpost or otherwise), then they stay out until the next player's clean-up phase like you said.

No no no. You are reading stuff into "after this one." Possession says "after this one" but all the turns happen.

Technically, "after this one" is transitive. The turn after the turn after this one still is "after this one". Just not immediately.

[sudgy]

Alright, one more question I just thought of:

You play TR-Outpost and then another Outpost in one turn.  One of those Outposts made you get an extra turn, and the other ones (thinking of three Outposts because the TR made the first Outpost try twice) didn't, and one gets discarded at the end of the Outpost turn.  You get to choose which one made the extra turn, and if you choose the TRed one, it doesn't get discarded (because it was played twice and its other self needs to stay out to try again), and if you choose the non-TRed one, it does get discarded (as usual).  So, the question is, when do you decide which one you discard?  Do you decide at the end of the first turn, when you're trying to get another turn, or when you would discard them at the end of your Outpost turn?  I would think it's at the end of the first turn, but I'm not 100% sure.

That's a really confusing question...  Hopefully you can get it...

[Donald X.]

You play TR-Outpost and then another Outpost in one turn.  One of those Outposts made you get an extra turn, and the other ones (thinking of three Outposts because the TR made the first Outpost try twice) didn't, and one gets discarded at the end of the Outpost turn.  You get to choose which one made the extra turn, and if you choose the TRed one, it doesn't get discarded (because it was played twice and its other self needs to stay out to try again), and if you choose the non-TRed one, it does get discarded (as usual).  So, the question is, when do you decide which one you discard?  Do you decide at the end of the first turn, when you're trying to get another turn, or when you would discard them at the end of your Outpost turn?  I would think it's at the end of the first turn, but I'm not 100% sure.

At the end of the turn when you played them all, they are all trying to do something at the same time, so you pick which one to resolve first, then. Then that one will go away ahead of the others.

[sudgy]

You play TR-Outpost and then another Outpost in one turn.  One of those Outposts made you get an extra turn, and the other ones (thinking of three Outposts because the TR made the first Outpost try twice) didn't, and one gets discarded at the end of the Outpost turn.  You get to choose which one made the extra turn, and if you choose the TRed one, it doesn't get discarded (because it was played twice and its other self needs to stay out to try again), and if you choose the non-TRed one, it does get discarded (as usual).  So, the question is, when do you decide which one you discard?  Do you decide at the end of the first turn, when you're trying to get another turn, or when you would discard them at the end of your Outpost turn?  I would think it's at the end of the first turn, but I'm not 100% sure.

At the end of the turn when you played them all, they are all trying to do something at the same time, so you pick which one to resolve first, then. Then that one will go away ahead of the others.

Alright, thanks, that's what I thought.

[werothegreat]

But do the Outposts that remain in play without causing extra turns get discarded during the next player's Clean-up (like Duplicate), or during your next Clean-up?

[enfynet]

I'm pretty sure they get discarded on your opponents turn.

[Simon (DK)]

They get discarded during your opponents clean up phase.

if you play 5 outposts on a turn does it take 5 turns for each outpost to try to resolve and then fail? or after the first outpost turn do they all fail right away and go back into the discard pile.

Man so many super edge cases that are never going to occur in my games but for some reason I just really want to know.

I am as always just trying to interpret the rulebook and card texts as best as I can, and man I'm not checking what the online version does, or complaining if it doesn't do this, leave them alone, they are busy.

If you play 5 Outposts (after some other player's turn), they all stay out and you take another turn (with a 3-card hand). That turn that one Outpost goes away; it's done. The other four sit there, confusing everybody, until the clean-up phase of the next turn (which normally won't be yours) and go away then. They don't "know" they aren't doing anything until after clean-up on the extra turn, so they can't be discarded that turn.

The rulebook says, "Leave the card in front of you until the Clean-up Phase of the last turn in which it does something (discard it before drawing for the following turn)." This is impossible; clean-up is already over before Outpost is done doing things (even when what it's doing is trying to and failing to produce an extra turn). My ruling is to discard it in the next clean-up phase; clean-up is when we discard stuff from play. It won't be your turn but I would discard it then anyway. The original intention was for cards to be discarded the last turn they did something, even when it wasn't your turn (and the precursor to Cutpurse was discarded during someone else's turn). The rules assume the card will go away on your turn but it's normal for the main body of the rules to focus on normal cases rather than exceptions. The basic rule has a parenthetical that assumes it's your turn and well, I had to make a ruling and there it is.

[Rubby]

So wouldn't it make more sense for Outpost not to have the Duration type? It's not actually doing anything on the extra turn (the "only draw 3 cards" applies to clean-up of the original turn). All it's doing is reminding you why the extra turn is happening. But why do you need this? Neither Possession nor Mission leaves anything in play to remind you why extra turns are happening.

[Deadlock39]

I think...

Technically, by the rules, Possession should be a Duration, but it isn't.

Mission is an event, so I have no clue.  What the heck would a duration event look like?  I guess it could have used a token.

Outpost is doing things after you discard your cards (trying to give you an extra turn). The Duration rule says it gets discarded during the first cleanup phase after it is done doing things.

If Possession was a Duration (and perhaps it should have been) then it would follow the same rules, but it isn't so it doesn't have anything for tracking.

[AJD]

Outpost is doing things after you discard your cards (trying to give you an extra turn). The Duration rule says it gets discarded during the first cleanup phase after it is done doing things.

Again, the Duration rule says it gets discarded during the Cleanup phase of the last turn on which it does something, not during the first cleanup phase after it is done doing things.

(Also, arguably, you could say Outpost is doing something on the second turn, namely, causing it to exist. But not as clearly as Possession is doing something on the second turn, namely redirecting gained cards and trashed cards.)

[pst]

Any card can have effects that last after it has left play. An action (or treasure!) card could say "at the start of your next turn you get $3" and then it would do that, even though there is nothing to remind you of it when it happens.

Mostly for convenience most cards that can have effects like that are Durations, so that they normally are still in play when they have effects, but it's still not them being in play that has an effect (unless it's an effect that is an when-in-play effect of course (as for Lighthouse). It's easy to believe that a card like Caravan has an effect because it is still in play, but it's the other way around – it's still in play because it has an effect (and it hasn't been removed from play by Procession or whatnot). When you've realized that the implication is in that direction there is not that much confusing going on, even in strange cases.

[Rubby]

Mostly for convenience most cards that can have effects like that are Durations, so that they normally are still in play when they have effects, but it's still not them being in play that has an effect (unless it's an effect that is an when-in-play effect of course (as for Lighthouse). It's easy to believe that a card like Caravan has an effect because it is still in play, but it's the other way around – it's still in play because it has an effect (and it hasn't been removed from play by Procession or whatnot). When you've realized that the implication is in that direction there is not that much confusing going on, even in strange cases.

So what's convenient about it in the case of Outpost?

Seems to me that without the Duration type, Outpost would play pretty much the same but would not generate all these tough questions or necessitate seemingly bizarre (but dictated by rulebook wording) rulings. If anything it would be more convenient -- many players who have seen other Durations find it counterintuitive that it does nothing once the extra turn starts, and some are confused that it doesn't stay out for a whole orbit like all other orange cards do.

[LastFootnote]

I think it's convenient that Outpost stays out to remind you that you're taking an Outpost turn, and therefore can't take another turn due to another Outpost you play this turn. It's a shame that there's no such tracking mechanism for Mission.

[Rubby]

I think it's convenient that Outpost stays out to remind you that you're taking an Outpost turn, and therefore can't take another turn due to another Outpost you play this turn. It's a shame that there's no such tracking mechanism for Mission.

There's also no tracking mechanism for having just had a Possessed turn, which also prohibits taking another turn due to playing an Outpost. But I guess that's a relatively rare situation.

I wouldn't have thought the lack of tracking mechanism for Mission would really be an inconvenience -- just as I wouldn't think a non-Duration Outpost would be inconvenient -- but as you are one of the lucky few who have played with Mission (and a card design guru), I defer to your expert opinion.

[LastFootnote]

Well I sometimes forget that I can't buy cards and someone reminds me. I don't think I've ever tried to take a third turn via Mission.

[pacovf]

It's a shame that there's no such tracking mechanism for Mission.

You could always take the Mission event card and put it in front of you.