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Author Topic: Homage to the Best Card  (Read 1421762 times)

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michaeljb

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3225 on: March 23, 2014, 01:29:28 pm »
+4

After all, you magically get your Victory cards back if you "trash" them, so why not Coin Tokens? Because cards are tiny, and Alchemy is an older set - that's what it looks like to Greg.

Because that's just how the card works. Arguing that it's not fair to use Coin tokens or whatever is just playing with the scrub mentality. Maybe Greg is a scrub, but that still makes him BAD instead of good.

What about Masquerade and Ambassador? They're from older sets than Alchemy and can cause much more harm to the Possessee than spending Coin tokens.
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Minotaur

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3226 on: March 23, 2014, 01:44:17 pm »
0

After all, you magically get your Victory cards back if you "trash" them, so why not Coin Tokens? Because cards are tiny, and Alchemy is an older set - that's what it looks like to Greg.

Because that's just how the card works. Arguing that it's not fair to use Coin tokens or whatever is just playing with the scrub mentality. Maybe Greg is a scrub, but that still makes him BAD instead of good.

What about Masquerade and Ambassador? They're from older sets than Alchemy and can cause much more harm to the Possessee than spending Coin tokens.

Possession is a weird card with some power cases.  I still think that Greg isn't just "bad at Dominion" just because he would have made different design choices than Donald in retrospect.  Of course he's less likely to win if he doesn't play to full effectiveness within the confines of the actual rules, but that could have easily gone without saying.

Maybe Greg would prefer to play house rules, where card-passing and such aren't allowed on the same board, and the coin token interaction modded as described.  But maybe he's playing on Goko with close friends and taking it on good faith that people will play the agreed-upon "house rules" anyway.  Bam, edge case.

(Most likely you just wouldn't buy Masquerade or Ambassador on a Possession board, and coin tokens would similarly be a liability.  The coin token case would "feel" more balanced and less hard-countered on a Possession board with the small rule tweak, though - and even with the change, they would still be a significant liability.)
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GeoLib

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3227 on: March 23, 2014, 02:03:17 pm »
0

(Most likely you just wouldn't buy Masquerade or Ambassador on a Possession board, and coin tokens would similarly be a liability.  The coin token case would "feel" more balanced and less hard-countered on a Possession board with the small rule tweak, though - and even with the change, they would still be a significant liability.)

If you skip Masquerade or Ambassador just because it's a possession board, you will almost certainly lose regardless of whether your opponent buys possession.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3228 on: March 23, 2014, 02:06:47 pm »
+2

(Most likely you just wouldn't buy Masquerade or Ambassador on a Possession board, and coin tokens would similarly be a liability.  The coin token case would "feel" more balanced and less hard-countered on a Possession board with the small rule tweak, though - and even with the change, they would still be a significant liability.)

If you skip Masquerade or Ambassador just because it's a possession board, you will almost certainly lose regardless of whether your opponent buys possession.
It's worth noting that with either Masquerade or ambassador, it's certainly possible to gain an extra one and then FORCE it to your opponent. You can forego them sometimes, maybe, but it's not really about the possession.

Minotaur

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3229 on: March 23, 2014, 02:22:50 pm »
0

(Most likely you just wouldn't buy Masquerade or Ambassador on a Possession board, and coin tokens would similarly be a liability.  The coin token case would "feel" more balanced and less hard-countered on a Possession board with the small rule tweak, though - and even with the change, they would still be a significant liability.)

If you skip Masquerade or Ambassador just because it's a possession board, you will almost certainly lose regardless of whether your opponent buys possession.
It's worth noting that with either Masquerade or ambassador, it's certainly possible to gain an extra one and then FORCE it to your opponent. You can forego them sometimes, maybe, but it's not really about the possession.

Oh, that is very true.  So basically it's a super-swingy card on that kind of board, the stuff divorces are made of.
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3230 on: March 23, 2014, 02:27:00 pm »
+7

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3231 on: March 23, 2014, 02:44:35 pm »
+9

GGG: vetoes possession because you don't have fun with it.
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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3232 on: March 23, 2014, 02:58:22 pm »
0

GGG : has $6, potion, and one buy with possession on the board : buys Golem anyway.

The one true GGG : discards possession litteraly. (here we have another "discard litteraly" case).
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eHalcyon

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3233 on: March 23, 2014, 03:46:27 pm »
0

The meme is Bad Luck Brian.  He has bad luck.  This isn't bad luck...

Edge Case: His Golem played two Hagglers, the Copper- and the Silverpiles are empty and there are no 3$ and 4$s in the kingdom and he REALLY needs that Stonemason.

Haggler still uses the base cost of $2, since overpay is defined as a when-buy mechanic. I think.

If you buy a Stonemason with two Hagglers in play, then the two Hagglers cause you to gain two non-victory cards costing less than Stonemason - the only such remaining pile is Ruins.  The joke is that you are forced to gain two Ruins by the Haggler mechanism.  You are NOT forced to "overpay by zero" for the Stonemason, because that's not how Overpay works.  It was a pretty impressive edge case.

But if there were $3 or $4 cards in the kingdom, he could buy one of those cards and Haggler the Stonemasons instead of Ruins.

My response was with respect to the original Bad-Luck Brian meme.  It read, "Doesn't overpay for Stonemason // gains two Ruins".

SirPeebles noted that overpay doesn't work that way and thus it doesn't make sense as bad luck.  SirClemens proposed an edge case with Haggler, but it still doesn't really make sense with the original BLB meme.  OK, he has Hagglers now... so what does not overpaying have to do with anything then?  It's not applicable to the original and is thus not an edge case.  It's an interesting scenario, I guess, but it no longer has anything to do with why the original BLB meme did not make sense.

As a side note, why would he REALLY need a Stonemason and not have picked it up by the time it's late enough that he has Golem and at least two Hagglers AND all the Copper and Silver are gone, but still early enough that gaining two extra Ruins hurts?  I can't think of how that could make sense at all.  I'm sure an edge case exists out there, so go for it people.
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ragingduckd

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3234 on: March 23, 2014, 03:59:19 pm »
+8

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eHalcyon

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3235 on: March 23, 2014, 04:47:40 pm »
+10

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SirClemens

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3236 on: March 23, 2014, 05:31:23 pm »
+29

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3237 on: March 23, 2014, 05:51:44 pm »
0

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Awaclus

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3238 on: March 23, 2014, 06:26:31 pm »
0


Why doesn't the laughter start when the punchline is visually revealed?
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Kirian

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3239 on: March 23, 2014, 08:28:33 pm »
+3


Why doesn't the laughter start when the punchline is visually revealed?

Because American sitcoms can't be bothered to do things like synchronize a laugh track with the actual joke.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3240 on: March 23, 2014, 08:56:37 pm »
+2

Because American sitcoms can't be bothered to do things like synchronize a laugh track with the actual joke.

Well, the 12 seconds in the video is actually part of a much longer gag, but I couldn't find a youtube video for the whole thing.  The laugh probably comes after Marshall states what is plainly on the chart for the purpose of pacing.  The whole segment has him presenting a variety of different charts and lists but it wouldn't work so well for pacing if it was just him showing each chart with no accompanying dialog.  Since there is dialog, the laughter naturally comes at the end.  Part of the humour is also in the delivery.  The real punchline of the gag is that Marshall is so enthusiastic about his charts that the group stages an intervention to stop him from his overzealous charting.

(Alternative explanation: the laugh comes after Marshall explains it because jokes are funnier after they are explained it.)
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Julle

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3241 on: March 24, 2014, 09:51:51 am »
+12

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shark_bait

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3242 on: March 24, 2014, 10:02:52 am »
+8

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GendoIkari

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3243 on: March 24, 2014, 10:21:25 am »
+2

Actually i think SirClemens gave a pretty fitting example of Good Guy Greg. While it's allowed by the rules to use another players coin tokens, it's certainly a situation that feels unfair in a way. Greg doesn't want to be mean, so he refrains from using them.



No. You might as well say "while it's allowed by the rules to buy more Provinces than your opponent, it's certainly a situation that feels unfair in a way. Greg doesn't want to be mean, so he refrains from buying Provinces."

Now, one could make an argument that "Good Guy Greg" would purposefully lose the game to his opponent, because he wants his opponent to feel good about himself. But let's not pretend that certain normal, legal plays in Dominion are more "scumbag" or "good guy" than others.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3244 on: March 24, 2014, 10:26:39 am »
+8

After all, you magically get your Victory cards back if you "trash" them, so why not Coin Tokens? Because cards are tiny, and Alchemy is an older set - that's what it looks like to Greg.

Because that's just how the card works. Arguing that it's not fair to use Coin tokens or whatever is just playing with the scrub mentality. Maybe Greg is a scrub, but that still makes him BAD instead of good.

What about Masquerade and Ambassador? They're from older sets than Alchemy and can cause much more harm to the Possessee than spending Coin tokens.

Possession is a weird card with some power cases.  I still think that Greg isn't just "bad at Dominion" just because he would have made different design choices than Donald in retrospect.  Of course he's less likely to win if he doesn't play to full effectiveness within the confines of the actual rules, but that could have easily gone without saying.

Maybe Greg would prefer to play house rules, where card-passing and such aren't allowed on the same board, and the coin token interaction modded as described.  But maybe he's playing on Goko with close friends and taking it on good faith that people will play the agreed-upon "house rules" anyway.  Bam, edge case.

(Most likely you just wouldn't buy Masquerade or Ambassador on a Possession board, and coin tokens would similarly be a liability.  The coin token case would "feel" more balanced and less hard-countered on a Possession board with the small rule tweak, though - and even with the change, they would still be a significant liability.)

Then this is how the meme should be:
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Minotaur

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3245 on: March 24, 2014, 10:40:17 am »
+2

After all, you magically get your Victory cards back if you "trash" them, so why not Coin Tokens? Because cards are tiny, and Alchemy is an older set - that's what it looks like to Greg.

Because that's just how the card works. Arguing that it's not fair to use Coin tokens or whatever is just playing with the scrub mentality. Maybe Greg is a scrub, but that still makes him BAD instead of good.

What about Masquerade and Ambassador? They're from older sets than Alchemy and can cause much more harm to the Possessee than spending Coin tokens.

Possession is a weird card with some power cases.  I still think that Greg isn't just "bad at Dominion" just because he would have made different design choices than Donald in retrospect.  Of course he's less likely to win if he doesn't play to full effectiveness within the confines of the actual rules, but that could have easily gone without saying.

Maybe Greg would prefer to play house rules, where card-passing and such aren't allowed on the same board, and the coin token interaction modded as described.  But maybe he's playing on Goko with close friends and taking it on good faith that people will play the agreed-upon "house rules" anyway.  Bam, edge case.

(Most likely you just wouldn't buy Masquerade or Ambassador on a Possession board, and coin tokens would similarly be a liability.  The coin token case would "feel" more balanced and less hard-countered on a Possession board with the small rule tweak, though - and even with the change, they would still be a significant liability.)

Then this is how the meme should be:


...but if you want to play vanilla Dominion rules, he doesn't get mad if it happens to him or rub it in if it happens to you.
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Minotaur

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3246 on: March 26, 2014, 09:37:39 am »
+7



(EDIT: I get the odd feeling that this joke might have been on page 47 or 63 or something, but I have no idea.)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 09:46:30 am by Minotaur »
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Kirian

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3247 on: March 26, 2014, 09:52:35 am »
+3

(EDIT: I get the odd feeling that this joke might have been on page 47 or 63 or something, but I have no idea.)

Maybe.  Sounds more like a "First World Problems" meme.
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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3248 on: March 26, 2014, 08:22:54 pm »
+1

Actually i think SirClemens gave a pretty fitting example of Good Guy Greg. While it's allowed by the rules to use another players coin tokens, it's certainly a situation that feels unfair in a way. Greg doesn't want to be mean, so he refrains from using them.


No. You might as well say "while it's allowed by the rules to buy more Provinces than your opponent, it's certainly a situation that feels unfair in a way. Greg doesn't want to be mean, so he refrains from buying Provinces."

Now, one could make an argument that "Good Guy Greg" would purposefully lose the game to his opponent, because he wants his opponent to feel good about himself. But let's not pretend that certain normal, legal plays in Dominion are more "scumbag" or "good guy" than others.

You see, i was allready accepting that i was wrong, but i didn't bother to write. The problem is that for me as a real life player (who usually plays against relatives and close friends that don't know the rules as good as me) Dominion is just a way to have fun, where doing combos like KC/Goons/Masq, letting somebody play Outpost during Possession and such things aren't necessarily something that improves the experience. Somebody will always feel tricked with those combos because they didn't see it coming, so i tend to avoid things that are too nasty.

I admit the example is far stretched even under those given conditions.
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SirClemens

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Re: Homage to the Best Card
« Reply #3249 on: March 27, 2014, 04:31:07 pm »
+11

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