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[Twistedarcher]

Yay for new expansion!

[Jorbles]

Yay for new expansion!

Where!?

[theory]

http://battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/goblins-vs-gnomes/

[pingpongsam]

http://battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/goblins-vs-gnomes/

That's the where but where's the when?

[Jorbles]

I found it (possibly a different it).
http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/goblins-vs-gnomes/?utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.0

It looks like we will need to start sacrificing more goats to RNGesus. So much uncertainty being introduced to the game. The new name of the game seems like it will be minimizing uncertainty.

[Jorbles]

http://battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/goblins-vs-gnomes/

That's the where but where's the when?

Also I read that it's supposed to go live in a month. (Source: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/11/07/blizzcon-2014-hearthstone-goblins-vs-gnomes-announced)

[Kirian]

http://battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/goblins-vs-gnomes/

Sneed's Shredder:  8-cost 5/7 Legendary with Deathrattle:  Summon a random Legendary.

Wow.

[pingpongsam]

No word of being able to craft these new cards or if a new dust would be required.

[EgorK]

No word of being able to craft these new cards or if a new dust would be required.

There was actually twitter interaction where someone asked whether there would be special dust for new cards and one of game designers answered that they want to keep things simple and too much curencies is not simple

[pingpongsam]

No word of being able to craft these new cards or if a new dust would be required.

There was actually twitter interaction where someone asked whether there would be special dust for new cards and one of game designers answered that they want to keep things simple and too much curencies is not simple

Okay, so are they going to be craftable at all?

Also, wow, the previews show a whole bunch of RNG, not sure how I feel about that right now.

[blueblimp]

http://battle.net/hearthstone/en/expansions-adventures/goblins-vs-gnomes/

Sneed's Shredder:  8-cost 5/7 Legendary with Deathrattle:  Summon a random Legendary.

Wow.

This guy will be a terror in arena, but in constructed, he doesn't have enough immediate impact to justify inclusion. As slow legendaries go, Ysera should still be better.

I'm looking forward to Shrinkmeister. I expect it'll have huge utility in Priest decks. It's a raptor if you're desperate, but if you can save it, it has strong combos with so many cards (SW:P, CSP, SM, ...). I've been hoping for a "-X attack this turn" card for a while.

[KingZog3]

Spider Tank takes away to coolness of Priest being the only class to have a 3 mana 3/4. Kind of sad.

I'm not a huge fan of the randomness, but it seems like most of the cards aren't too random, and those that are can't be included in a serious deck since they will more often be bad than good.

[Titandrake]

Not a big fan of the randomness either, although I do admit some of them could be pretty funny (i.e. Madder Bomber: Cost 5, 5/4, deal 6 damage to other random characters)

Edit: Blizzard might go the MtG route, where you have to buy a different pack that only has cards of this expansion.

[EgorK]

Blizzard might go the MtG route, where you have to buy a different pack that only has cards of this expansion.

Not might but would. They confirmed that way back ago

[Titandrake]

Blizzard might go the MtG route, where you have to buy a different pack that only has cards of this expansion.

Not might but would. They confirmed that way back ago

Hm...so for arena rewards, I guess you get a random pack now? If you still only get the basic pack, it's going to be annoying to choose between arena/buying packs outright.

[EgorK]

Ben Brode confirms that the arena will only reward the new packs once the expansion is live.

[ashersky]

Are there enough expansion commons to make buying the new packs worth it, or will it be mixed?

[KingZog3]

Are there enough expansion commons to make buying the new packs worth it, or will it be mixed?

With 120 cards I'd think there will be enough for a good number of card packs to be opened.

[markusin]

M-m-m-meta breaker!

[markusin]

So far, my favourite card in the revealed card list is Mekgineer Thermaplugg. It's not that he's particularly powerful, but I find the concept of spawning Leper Gnomes in the end game really cool.

Also, there appears to be a good amount of deathrattle cards to boost Naxxramas. I'm still wondering if they're ever going to do anything with the Dragon Type. At least have a dragon slayer or something.

[KingZog3]

So far, my favourite card in the revealed card list is Mekgineer Thermaplugg. It's not that he's particularly powerful, but I find the concept of spawning Leper Gnomes in the end game really cool.

Also, there appears to be a good amount of deathrattle cards to boost Naxxramas. I'm still wondering if they're ever going to do anything with the Dragon Type. At least have a dragon slayer or something.

Thermaplugg seems terribly weak, and practically unusable. Dr. Boom seems good, as with Bomb Lobber (that's what it's called right?). The draw a card for 3 mana one is interesting, but I don't think it'll be great. Also the Warrior card looks pretty sweet. Oh and the Priest card. Wow it's going to be good.

[ashersky]

So far, my favourite card in the revealed card list is Mekgineer Thermaplugg. It's not that he's particularly powerful, but I find the concept of spawning Leper Gnomes in the end game really cool.

Also, there appears to be a good amount of deathrattle cards to boost Naxxramas. I'm still wondering if they're ever going to do anything with the Dragon Type. At least have a dragon slayer or something.

Thermaplugg seems terribly weak, and practically unusable. Dr. Boom seems good, as with Bomb Lobber (that's what it's called right?). The draw a card for 3 mana one is interesting, but I don't think it'll be great. Also the Warrior card looks pretty sweet. Oh and the Priest card. Wow it's going to be good.

Is the full list out?

[ashersky]

I like Clockwork Giant as the anti-Handlock giant.

[Titandrake]

I like Clockwork Giant as the anti-Handlock giant.

It's interesting at least, not sure how much play it'll see though. My first instinct is that it'll be a dead card too often to make up for its usefulness. Harrison Jones/Black Knight have a similar problem to be fair, but they both do something immediately, while this is just an 8/8, and if any deck can deal with 8/8s it's Handlock.

My guess is that it'll mostly see play in control decks for the control vs control matchup. It may see play in more aggressive decks if there's a lot of control decks on the ladder, but I find it hard to believe it'll help your overall win rate on average.

[KingZog3]

So far, my favourite card in the revealed card list is Mekgineer Thermaplugg. It's not that he's particularly powerful, but I find the concept of spawning Leper Gnomes in the end game really cool.

Also, there appears to be a good amount of deathrattle cards to boost Naxxramas. I'm still wondering if they're ever going to do anything with the Dragon Type. At least have a dragon slayer or something.

Thermaplugg seems terribly weak, and practically unusable. Dr. Boom seems good, as with Bomb Lobber (that's what it's called right?). The draw a card for 3 mana one is interesting, but I don't think it'll be great. Also the Warrior card looks pretty sweet. Oh and the Priest card. Wow it's going to be good.

Is the full list out?

No, still only the 30-something cards I think. Two more maybe, plus those "spare parts" cards.

[markusin]

Which g&g cards are class specific?

[Kirian]

So far, my favourite card in the revealed card list is Mekgineer Thermaplugg. It's not that he's particularly powerful, but I find the concept of spawning Leper Gnomes in the end game really cool.

I think this is cool entirely because of the way they brought a dungeon mechanic from WOW straight into HS.

[KingZog3]

Which g&g cards are class specific?

Blue border are mage, White border is Priest, Red is Warrior.

Mage has Flamecannon, which isn't super amazing, the conditional mad bomber type card, and the unstable portal which is just terrible.

Priest has the mech giving health minions, -2 attack minion and the new buff

Warrior has the Spinning Blades card.

[Kirian]

Which g&g cards are class specific?

Of the ones that have been shown, three are Priest and three are Mage cards... but they've shown 2 Rare and 1 Common for Mage, and 2 Common and 1 Rare for Priest.  There's also an Epic Warrior card.  This implies strongly that there will be, at least, 2 Common, 2 Rare, and 1 Epic class-specific cards for each class.

[ashersky]

Spinning Blades could be great against the late-gamers who drop big minions -- lots of damage and guaranteed to kill one, pop divine shields, etc.

[blueblimp]

I like Clockwork Giant as the anti-Handlock giant.

It's interesting at least, not sure how much play it'll see though.

At minimum, I'd be very surprised if Backspace Rogue decks didn't adopt clockwork giant. By "Backspace Rogue", I mean the aggro rogue deck that runs Coldlight Oracles and King Mukla to counter Miracle Rogue and greedy control decks. See http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/constructed-strategy/459166-backspace-rogue. Since you're planning to spam your opponent's hand with cards anyway, you should have a good shot at a cheap giant.

Mage has Flamecannon, which isn't super amazing

Flamecannon ought to be a stellar arena card. It's basically a second Frostbolt, with the additional bonus that Flamecannon+ping is another 4 mana way to remove a Yeti (on top of Fireball). Also, it can hit Faerie Dragon, Spectral Knight, and stealthed minions (Shade of Naxxramas and Jungle Panther come to mind). Crazy. I think the unreliability will usually be not a problem, because as a Mage you can ping off 1 health minions, and for most minions with 2+ health, you're happy to use 2 mana to remove them.

[KingZog3]

In arena flamecannon is good true. I don't except to see it constructed.

[Titandrake]

In arena flamecannon is good true. I don't except to see it constructed.

I'd be surprised too, but it's worth noting that it kills stealthed Auctioneers if it's the only thing out.

[markusin]

In arena flamecannon is good true. I don't except to see it constructed.

I'd be surprised too, but it's worth noting that it kills stealthed Auctioneers if it's the only thing out.

It might be something I'd try out in constructed, but unlike Frostbolt it lacks the ability of attacking face. Flamecannon is less versatile in that way.

[HiveMindEmulator]

My rapid-fire initial impressions:
 - Dr Boom seems good.
 - Mimiron+Conceal the new Miralce finisher?
 - Bouncing Blade seems neat for Control Warrior -- good interactions with Armorsmith and Aco or can be straight up removal when you have nothing on the board.
 - Piloted Sky Golem is like a way worse Cairne, but should be good in arena. Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.
 - Bomb Lobber should be decent. If they have a single minion, it's like Argent Commander. The effect also seems decent on Flamecannon for arena or some sort of control Mage
 - I like all the Priest ones.
 - Clockwerk Gnome and Tinkertown Tech should be good in some sort of tempo deck that can do well with the spare parts.
 - Spider Tank should become a top card in Arena, best neutral common 3-drop.

Arena offering only G&G packs and not the old cards means I will probably never get to complete my collection. I don't think I wan to buy old packs and have no plan on crafting something like Far Sight. And I will be forced to craft the legendaries that I want, since I can no longer hope to luck upon them...

[KingZog3]

Arena offering only G&G packs and not the old cards means I will probably never get to complete my collection. I don't think I wan to buy old packs and have no plan on crafting something like Far Sight. And I will be forced to craft the legendaries that I want, since I can no longer hope to luck upon them...

Until you finish the G&G collection. Then maybe you can buy packs.

[blueblimp]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

[markusin]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

Don't forget Novice Engineer.

Now, the minion that swaps a friendly minion for one of equal cost is interesting. It can turn cards with battlecries but subpar stats like Novice Engineer and Stormpike Commando into a minion that is likely to have better stats.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

[KingZog3]

I think the small shredder will be good as 2 drops are more consistent. 4 drops are not all close in strength, especially since many have battle crys that make up for low stats, so the epic shredder isn't so hot.

[blueblimp]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

[pingpongsam]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

Webspinner is super swingy

[KingZog3]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

Webspinner is super swingy

I cant remember the last time a beast from webspinner changed anyone's game. Even when they get King Krush.

[nkirbit]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

Webspinner is super swingy

Rag, too.  Rag is at or near the top of the charts in both power and swingyness, and its still a super interesting, fun, and challenging card to play.. nothing apart from the guy who drops legends seems close to rag in randomness.

[pingpongsam]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

Webspinner is super swingy

I cant remember the last time a beast from webspinner changed anyone's game. Even when they get King Krush.

I don't run highmane so when it drops highmane my game gets changed pretty spectacularly. then again, I don't run webspinner anymore.

[KingZog3]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

Webspinner is super swingy

I cant remember the last time a beast from webspinner changed anyone's game. Even when they get King Krush.

I don't run highmane so when it drops highmane my game gets changed pretty spectacularly. then again, I don't run webspinner anymore.

I don't see any Hunter decks that don't run highmane. Since the Buzzard nerf, extreme aggro Hunter isnt a thing, and highmanes are pretty much in every deck.

[pingpongsam]

I don't see any Hunter decks that don't run highmane. Since the Buzzard nerf, extreme aggro Hunter isnt a thing, and highmanes are pretty much in every deck.

Well, you haven't seen mine, then.

[KingZog3]

I don't see any Hunter decks that don't run highmane. Since the Buzzard nerf, extreme aggro Hunter isnt a thing, and highmanes are pretty much in every deck.

Well, you haven't seen mine, then.

Obviously not. Maybe it's worse though.

[Kirian]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

Webspinner is super swingy

I cant remember the last time a beast from webspinner changed anyone's game. Even when they get King Krush.

I posted a game a couple weeks ago where my only hope of a win was for my Webspinner to turn into Krush, and it did.

[blueblimp]

Piloted Shredder offers that same Harvest Golem look at 4, which is nice.

I kinda dislike the way they did the RNG on this card. I don't mind RNG in general, but I like it better when whether the outcome is good or not depends on the situation and how you use it. For example, if Piloted Shredder only dropped 2-drops of similar power like Raptors, Crocs, and Pint-Sized Summoners, that'd be neat--kinda like how Animal Companion works. The wording makes it sound like it could also drop a Captain's Parrot or Millhouse Manastorm, either of which would be pretty awful for one of the players.

I don't think all the Animal Companions are all that close in value. In most common situations, Huffer > Misha >>> Leokk. And I don't think Millhouse/Engi/Parrot ruin the card. There's a LOT of 3/2s and 2/3s and 2/2s and not a ton of things that are too far off of that, so the chances that you'll get the huge RNG boost are like the chances of a Mad Bomber killing a 2/3 or something.

Yes, Leokk is usually not as good as the other two, but at least it's the same ballpark of power, and sometimes it's actually the best result. Nowhere near 1/1 vs 4/4. I'm not saying that Animal Companion has the fairest possible effect, but it's not needlessly swingy, in my opinion. Though at least with the shredder, by specifying the mana cost, they've moved away from Bane of Doom level swinginess, so that's nice.

Webspinner is super swingy

Although I didn't mention Webspinner, it's a great example of a card that is much less swingy than it is random, which is my favourite kind of randomness. The clever thing about Webspinner is giving you the full card, including mana cost and battlecry. Usually this means that the card goodness is at most 1 mana off from what you spend on it, because the cards you get are at least vaguely balanced (except for Captain's Parrot because you don't have pirates in your deck), so at least the tempo swing is limited even though the value swing may be significant.

The thing I find more swingy about the shredder is that by skipping the battlecry, it skips part of what makes the card (vaguely) balanced.

I'm sure shredder will be mostly fine even if it's worth playing. I'm just disappointed that they didn't re-use the clever solution they had for Webspinner. Imagine something like "Deathrattle: Put a random 2-cost minion in your hand. It costs (2) less." OK, Captain's Parrot is still a problem there, but it handles Novice Engineer, Millhouse Manastorm, Succubus, and whatever else.

[HiveMindEmulator]

There is a 2% chance of getting Millhouse and a 4% chance of getting Engi/Parrot. Two thirds of the time you'll get something that trades with a Raptor. It really doesn't seem swingier than existing cards. As I type this my Mad Bomber hit me in the face 3 times instead of either of my opponent's 1-health minions (the only 2 minions on the board).

[popsofctown]

I agree with blueblimp, that would have been better.

As it is I'm just hoping a 4 cost minion is something that non-zoo decks can get more from than zoo, balance seems like a bigger issue than swinginess to me with hearthstone currently.

[KingZog3]

There is a 2% chance of getting Millhouse and a 4% chance of getting Engi/Parrot. Two thirds of the time you'll get something that trades with a Raptor. It really doesn't seem swingier than existing cards. As I type this my Mad Bomber hit me in the face 3 times instead of either of my opponent's 1-health minions (the only 2 minions on the board).

Are you taking into account all the new 2 drops? Most are probably better than a 1/1.

[markusin]

There is a 2% chance of getting Millhouse and a 4% chance of getting Engi/Parrot. Two thirds of the time you'll get something that trades with a Raptor. It really doesn't seem swingier than existing cards. As I type this my Mad Bomber hit me in the face 3 times instead of either of my opponent's 1-health minions (the only 2 minions on the board).

Are you taking into account all the new 2 drops? Most are probably better than a 1/1.

Speaking of 2 drops, what is up with that 1/2 Micromachine that gains +1 attack at the start of every turn. It's like a way worse version of Shade of Naxxramas unless you can utilize it's mech type. Without buffs, it takes 2 turns just to become a Raptor. Heck, I'd rather have Pint-Sized Summoner if I can get a 2 health minion to survive that long.

[EgorK]

There is a 2% chance of getting Millhouse and a 4% chance of getting Engi/Parrot. Two thirds of the time you'll get something that trades with a Raptor. It really doesn't seem swingier than existing cards. As I type this my Mad Bomber hit me in the face 3 times instead of either of my opponent's 1-health minions (the only 2 minions on the board).

Are you taking into account all the new 2 drops? Most are probably better than a 1/1.

Speaking of 2 drops, what is up with that 1/2 Micromachine that gains +1 attack at the start of every turn. It's like a way worse version of Shade of Naxxramas unless you can utilize it's mech type. Without buffs, it takes 2 turns just to become a Raptor. Heck, I'd rather have Pint-Sized Summoner if I can get a 2 health minion to survive that long.

Note wording - every turn, not every your turn. It's like Gruul, growing just every turn

[markusin]

There is a 2% chance of getting Millhouse and a 4% chance of getting Engi/Parrot. Two thirds of the time you'll get something that trades with a Raptor. It really doesn't seem swingier than existing cards. As I type this my Mad Bomber hit me in the face 3 times instead of either of my opponent's 1-health minions (the only 2 minions on the board).

Are you taking into account all the new 2 drops? Most are probably better than a 1/1.

Speaking of 2 drops, what is up with that 1/2 Micromachine that gains +1 attack at the start of every turn. It's like a way worse version of Shade of Naxxramas unless you can utilize it's mech type. Without buffs, it takes 2 turns just to become a Raptor. Heck, I'd rather have Pint-Sized Summoner if I can get a 2 health minion to survive that long.

Note wording - every turn, not every your turn. It's like Gruul, growing just every turn

Oh! Well, that's a lot better then.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I agree with blueblimp, that would have been better.

As it is I'm just hoping a 4 cost minion is something that non-zoo decks can get more from than zoo, balance seems like a bigger issue than swinginess to me with hearthstone currently.

I don't think zoo is too strong atm. The game seems to be in a pretty decent state now. Of course the expansion will break something, so meh.

There is a 2% chance of getting Millhouse and a 4% chance of getting Engi/Parrot. Two thirds of the time you'll get something that trades with a Raptor. It really doesn't seem swingier than existing cards. As I type this my Mad Bomber hit me in the face 3 times instead of either of my opponent's 1-health minions (the only 2 minions on the board).

Are you taking into account all the new 2 drops? Most are probably better than a 1/1.

The number is rough enough that you can say I'm including the revealed cards or not. I think there's 47 released 2-drops and 5 new ones revealed. I'm obviously not counting unrevealed cards.

[markusin]

There is a 2% chance of getting Millhouse and a 4% chance of getting Engi/Parrot. Two thirds of the time you'll get something that trades with a Raptor. It really doesn't seem swingier than existing cards. As I type this my Mad Bomber hit me in the face 3 times instead of either of my opponent's 1-health minions (the only 2 minions on the board).

I watched a video of Trump's impressions of the cards. He pointed out that it can also summon Doomsayer. I don't know what to think of that

[KingZog3]

New rogue card (2 mana 3/2 Battlecry: Give your weapon +1 attack). Looks pretty good. I think it'll be played in some sort of more aggresive deck.

The other new Goblin is pretty killer too. 3mana for 2/4 is good, and on top of that it gets 4 more attack when your opponent has 6 or more cards in hand. So far Handlock seems to be getting its butt kicked with these new cards.

[ashersky]

New rogue card (2 mana 3/2 Battlecry: Give your weapon +1 attack). Looks pretty good. I think it'll be played in some sort of more aggresive deck.

The other new Goblin is pretty killer too. 3mana for 2/4 is good, and on top of that it gets 4 more attack when your opponent has 6 or more cards in hand. So far Handlock seems to be getting its butt kicked with these new cards.

That second one, Innervate on T1 will be fun.

[KingZog3]

New rogue card (2 mana 3/2 Battlecry: Give your weapon +1 attack). Looks pretty good. I think it'll be played in some sort of more aggresive deck.

The other new Goblin is pretty killer too. 3mana for 2/4 is good, and on top of that it gets 4 more attack when your opponent has 6 or more cards in hand. So far Handlock seems to be getting its butt kicked with these new cards.

That second one, Innervate on T1 will be fun.

Is it that good turn 1? It lets your opponent know they need to spend cards. I suppose it's good like that, but I think it's better as  a mini boss card against handlock who is tapping and some control decks like priest that sit and wait to be reactive.

[popsofctown]

Making someone do suboptimal plays to get their handsize down is still an advantage?

[KingZog3]

Making someone do suboptimal plays to get their handsize down is still an advantage?

I thought about that after I posted. It depends what becomes strong after the release though. If Zoo and aggro make a bigger comeback it won't be as good. Still good though, but there will probably be better.

[ashersky]

Making someone do suboptimal plays to get their handsize down is still an advantage?

That was the idea.

With coin, P2 is at 6 cards on T1.  If they are playing Handlock, they want to pass, but now I've got a 6/4 sitting on the board, so you need to do something about it.

[blueblimp]

New rogue card (2 mana 3/2 Battlecry: Give your weapon +1 attack). Looks pretty good. I think it'll be played in some sort of more aggresive deck.

This guy seems pretty crazy in arena. It's a raptor, which is already pretty good, plus half a deadly poison for free. Yet another reason to want the coin as Rogue: you can turn 1 coin hero power, then turn 2 drop this guy to have a 3/2 on the board and a 2/2 weapon (which can kill a raptor if your opponent played one).

[HiveMindEmulator]

Making someone do suboptimal plays to get their handsize down is still an advantage?

That was the idea.

With coin, P2 is at 6 cards on T1.  If they are playing Handlock, they want to pass, but now I've got a 6/4 sitting on the board, so you need to do something about it.

And if they're Zoo, you can kill both small minions with the one 2/4. Seems like a very low risk play.

[ycz6]

Coldlight Rogue is looking more and more viable.

[ycz6]

New card, Illuminator: http://m3.wayin.us/gobvvwc8v7pwb5k4wpb27h0lbqgxj-full.png

Neutral 2/4 for 3 Mana, "If you control a Secret at the end of your turn, restore 4 health to your hero."

Looks like they still want secrets Mage to be a thing. Also, this is the first neutral 2/4 for 3, though with Spider Tank around that's less notable.

[ycz6]

Also, the blue card in the current reveal vote appears to be some sort of Pirate Rogue class card, which is intriguing.

[EgorK]

Based on some leaked card art from Blizzard site each class will get legendary. Paladin's is Bolvar, Warlock's is Mal'Ganis, Druid's is Malorne

[popsofctown]

Pirate tribal is a lost cause and if the pirate has any loss in power level at all to account for it being a pirate it'll be unplayable.  Vote for the other thing!

[blueblimp]

Pirate tribal is a lost cause and if the pirate has any loss in power level at all to account for it being a pirate it'll be unplayable.  Vote for the other thing!

None of the existing pirates pay a power cost for being a pirate, at least not like murlocs and beasts do. Sure, most of them are not played in constructed (the exception being Southsea Deckhand in some miracle decks), but that doesn't mean they are inherently underpowered cards. For example, compare Southsea Deckhand to Murloc Raider and Bloodsail Raider to River Crocolisk. I think they are rarely played because weapon synergy only really makes sense for two classes (Warrior and Rogue), and most of the existing pirates don't fit very well into existing deck archetypes for those classes.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Pirate tribal is a lost cause and if the pirate has any loss in power level at all to account for it being a pirate it'll be unplayable.  Vote for the other thing!

Why is it a lost cause? It's just not strong now. If you add some Pirate that gives +1 duration to your weapon whenever you summon a Pirate or something, it becomes pretty good.

[blueblimp]

Pirate tribal is a lost cause and if the pirate has any loss in power level at all to account for it being a pirate it'll be unplayable.  Vote for the other thing!

Why is it a lost cause? It's just not strong now. If you add some Pirate that gives +1 duration to your weapon whenever you summon a Pirate or something, it becomes pretty good.

I wouldn't call pirate tribal a lost cause so much as non-existent. Except for Southsea Captain (the one that buffs your other pirates), there's no synergy among the pirates except indirectly in that most of them like you to have a weapon (except Bloodsail Corsair). Captain's Parrot actually anti-synergizes with having many pirates in your deck, because you want to run just a few kinds to increase certainty about what the parrot will dig up.

[popsofctown]

You're right, HME, but the little picture on the site doesn't look like a pirate Warleader of any sort to me, so that's why I said that.

Part of the issue is that Southsea Captain is so weak.  Sometimes he ends up being a 3/3, sometimes he ends up being a pre-nerf Shattered Sun Cleric

[ycz6]

Overly specific predictions, anyone?

• There will be a card with Battlecry: Destroy a random friendly minion. Let's say... a 6/7 for 5 mana?
• There will be a neutral 2/2 for 1.
• There will be a neutral legendary or class-specific epic which lowers the cost of your hero power and/or lets you use it multiple times.

[popsofctown]

They haven't done a hand peek or secret peek card yet.  Revealing an opponent's hand everytime you hit them makes a lot of sense for a cheap gnome or goblin.  2/1 for one, neutral.

[KingZog3]

They haven't done a hand peek or secret peek card yet.  Revealing an opponent's hand everytime you hit them makes a lot of sense for a cheap gnome or goblin.  2/1 for one, neutral.

Mind vision is a kind of hand peek.

[Titandrake]

Overly specific predictions, anyone?

• There will be a card with Battlecry: Destroy a random friendly minion. Let's say... a 6/7 for 5 mana?
• There will be a neutral 2/2 for 1.
• There will be a neutral legendary or class-specific epic which lowers the cost of your hero power and/or lets you use it multiple times.

There will be a card that will give Spell Damage until the end of turn. Probably Mage specific as a aversion to giving Miracle Rogue any possible new tricks.

[HiveMindEmulator]

• There will be a card with Battlecry: Destroy a random friendly minion. Let's say... a 6/7 for 5 mana?

This condition seems too easy to avoid that it would be hard to balance the card. 6/7 for 5 would be way too strong. Maybe like 5/3 for 3. Or "Battlecry: Destroy a random friendly minion and give all other friendly minions +1/+1" with normal stats.

[popsofctown]

I think maybe ycz forgot the funky way Hearthstone cards work.  http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179580 works fine with simple wording in that other CCG.

Yeah, destroy a random friendly minion can't destroy itself so 6/7 for 5 is too nuts.  "Destroy a random friendly minion or this minion deals 7 damage to itself" works as a 6/7 for 5.

[popsofctown]

@Zog, I guess I mean AoE hand peek

[EgorK]

New card is warrior minion 5/5 for 6 that gives 5 armor

[pingpongsam]

New card is warrior minion 5/5 for 6 that gives 5 armor

IMO shield slam is OP now and more armor just makes it worse. If shield slam consumed the armor that made it work then I think it would be more balanced.

[Titandrake]

New card is warrior minion 5/5 for 6 that gives 5 armor

Not that big a fan, Priestess of Elune with 1 more health + 1 more gained health on battecry, ignoring armor interactions. 5 health is a lot trickier to deal with than 4 health tbf.

[KingZog3]

New card is warrior minion 5/5 for 6 that gives 5 armor

IMO shield slam is OP now and more armor just makes it worse. If shield slam consumed the armor that made it work then I think it would be more balanced.

Honestly, the stats are bad for the cost, so really you run this instead of shield block. Shield slam won't e too good. It'll be stronger, but not much more than it is now with shield block.

[blueblimp]

New card is warrior minion 5/5 for 6 that gives 5 armor

IMO shield slam is OP now and more armor just makes it worse. If shield slam consumed the armor that made it work then I think it would be more balanced.

I'm pretty sure that shield slam is intentionally OP. It's a class strength, kinda like how Hex is OP.

[markusin]

New card is warrior minion 5/5 for 6 that gives 5 armor

IMO shield slam is OP now and more armor just makes it worse. If shield slam consumed the armor that made it work then I think it would be more balanced.

I'm pretty sure that shield slam is intentionally OP. It's a class strength, kinda like how Hex is OP.

Shield slam is basically hard removal that you can delay by doing damage.

[ycz6]

https://www.facebook.com/Hearthstone/photos/a.810275045681932.1073741864.498467596862680/813821118660658/?type=1&theater

Jeeves: 4 Mana minion, 1/4, Mech, Rare
At the end of each player's turn, that player draws until they have 3 cards.



Note that if you play this while you are in fatigue, you lose.

[Titandrake]

Also, if you play this and your opponent is in fatigue, they lose if they can't remove it that turn.

Ooo, you know what would be hilarious? Coldlight Rogue with this + Conceal to counter control decks.

Edit: Wait, only if they have fewer than 3 cards. That makes that less exciting...

[blueblimp]

Weird card. A little bit like some mix of Coldlight Oracle and Divine Favour, depending on how many cards your opponent has. Not getting to use the cards until next turn hurts a bit, except it also means that your opponent is denied the benefit if he removes Jeeves. It combos a bit with Divine Favour in that if your opponent leaves Jeeves alive, you can Divine Favour for as many as 3 cards on your next turn.

The mana cost is steep but you get as many as 3 cards for it. I could see ultra-aggro decks running this, maybe as a 1-of. Maybe ramp druids would run it as insurance for when they fail to draw Ancient of Lore? It's hard to judge how good this card is until we see it in action.

[KingZog3]

As for the name, it seems like it should be on a Legendary card. Is Jeeves generic in WoW? I mean for Hearthstone it's obviously linked to being able to play 2 in a deck, but the name seems non-generic.

[EgorK]

As for the name, it seems like it should be on a Legendary card. Is Jeeves generic in WoW? I mean for Hearthstone it's obviously linked to being able to play 2 in a deck, but the name seems non-generic.

Jeeves is model of robot, so generic

[EgorK]

Note that if you play this while you are in fatigue, you lose.

Apparently not - https://twitter.com/m_mccall/status/533427258531135488

[pingpongsam]

Note that if you play this while you are in fatigue, you lose.

Apparently not - https://twitter.com/m_mccall/status/533427258531135488

That just means he won't kill you in fatigue if you have 3 or more cards in hand.

[EgorK]

No. You see, if you have zero cards he will "draw" 3, so you suffer your 3 next fatigues. Otherwise he would draw indefenately and loop game, as check for life <= 0 is only performed after all events resolved

[popsofctown]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

[pingpongsam]

No. You see, if you have zero cards he will "draw" 3, so you suffer your 3 next fatigues. Otherwise he would draw indefenately and loop game, as check for life <= 0 is only performed after all events resolved

Check number one is if hand size < 3, which if false means no cards are drawn and thus you are not killed even if you are in fatigue. I suppose the thing I saw as obvious is that at most Jeeves can only deliver 3 fatigues which may or may not kill you. If that wasn't obvious then I don't expect that person to be terribly good at the game to begin with.

[EgorK]

No. You see, if you have zero cards he will "draw" 3, so you suffer your 3 next fatigues. Otherwise he would draw indefenately and loop game, as check for life <= 0 is only performed after all events resolved

Check number one is if hand size < 3, which if false means no cards are drawn and thus you are not killed even if you are in fatigue. I suppose the thing I saw as obvious is that at most Jeeves can only deliver 3 fatigues which may or may not kill you. If that wasn't obvious then I don't expect that person to be terribly good at the game to begin with.

If you have 0 cards and enough health to survive 3 fatigue cards you would not immideately die from Jeeves, that's what this is about

[blueblimp]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

Yeah, it's not like the case is going to come up often, so why not just implement it correctly so that when it does come up, people know what's going to happen.

[markusin]

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

[HiveMindEmulator]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

Yeah, it's not like the case is going to come up often, so why not just implement it correctly so that when it does come up, people know what's going to happen.

The way it is is much easier to implement without fear of weird bugs, since it involves no loops. It just draws max((3-#cards in hand),0) cards. The card text should say this though; the wording on the card is the confusing part. I guess the problem is there is no convenient wording for it.

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

Note that it does take 8 mana to play the combo, so it's not an immediate answer to 4-attack minions played on curve, other than Ysera.

[KingZog3]

Of course you run 2 shrinkmeisters. But Priest is going to be so reactive if you load your deck up with cards that all rquire specific situations. It's already a pretty reactive class.

[blueblimp]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

Yeah, it's not like the case is going to come up often, so why not just implement it correctly so that when it does come up, people know what's going to happen.

The way it is is much easier to implement without fear of weird bugs, since it involves no loops. It just draws max((3-#cards in hand),0) cards. The card text should say this though; the wording on the card is the confusing part. I guess the problem is there is no convenient wording for it.

Eh, while nothing is easy in software engineering, I assume they have automated tests for the game engine in isolation to prevent regressions when they make rule changes, so preventing an infinite loop bug there is a matter of adding a test for that specific situation, and then you're covered forever. It'd be harder to write if there were RNG involved, but in this case it's fully deterministic so it should be straightforward.

I think it's more likely that they coded it without thinking of the fatigue case, and don't want to bother to go back to fix it since they don't put high priority on making their rules consistent. That may be the right choice (since coding new cards is likely a better use of time than fixing edge cases of old ones) even though it's a bit annoying.

[popsofctown]

Using awkward wording is less awkward than using smooth wording that is not accurately reflected by your game's actual mechanics.  When they realized the edge case they should have reworded divine favor to "Draw cards equal to the difference the number of cards in your hands and the number of cards in your opponent's hand" and Jeeves to whatever.

[Kirian]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

Yeah, it's not like the case is going to come up often, so why not just implement it correctly so that when it does come up, people know what's going to happen.

The way it is is much easier to implement without fear of weird bugs, since it involves no loops. It just draws max((3-#cards in hand),0) cards. The card text should say this though; the wording on the card is the confusing part. I guess the problem is there is no convenient wording for it.

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

Note that it does take 8 mana to play the combo, so it's not an immediate answer to 4-attack minions played on curve, other than Ysera.

OTOH, if all you care about is destroying (rather than stealing), Shrinkmeister/SWPain is only 4 mana.  4 mana and 2 cards to kill Yeti/Drake/Auctioneer while still leaving a 3/2 on the board is quite nice.  Not as awesome against Cairne though.

[markusin]

You know, I was just thinking if there would ever be a minion that did some damage to adjacent enemy minions when attacking. Lo and behold:
http://m.ca.ign.com/articles/2014/11/17/revealing-a-brand-new-hearthstone-legendary

8 Mana 6/9
Also damages the minions next to however he attacks.

I think it's base stats are good enough that it might see use. It also makes positioning really important.

I like it's art. It looks like a super Harvest Golem. Speaking of which, Harvest Golem will get the mech type, so I expect it won't lose any popularity.

[popsofctown]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

[markusin]

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

Note that it does take 8 mana to play the combo, so it's not an immediate answer to 4-attack minions played on curve, other than Ysera.

OTOH, if all you care about is destroying (rather than stealing), Shrinkmeister/SWPain is only 4 mana.  4 mana and 2 cards to kill Yeti/Drake/Auctioneer while still leaving a 3/2 on the board is quite nice.  Not as awesome against Cairne though.

Also of note is Shrinkmeister + Shadow Madness stealing Sylvanas. Same 6 mana cost, but has potential to totally flip the board momentum.

[Kirian]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

[KingZog3]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

Ysera gives you a card that turn. Not immediate effect, but you always get a card out of playing her. Foe Reaper 4000 might just get hexed as soon as you play it.

[markusin]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

You mean like a counter to Ysera. Ysera still gives you a card on the turn it's played, and has 12 health.

But Malygos drives home the point. You just can't allow that dragon to stay alive when played by a Rogue.

This new legendary can help clean up Kel'Thuzad's army, and it's something else that can pop up from Sneed's Old Shredder. But of course Sneed has the same problem brought up about 8 mana minions.

8+ mana minions that aren't game winners aren't looked upon highly in constructed. Still, the effect of this legendary is really strong if it gets off an attack.

[markusin]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

Ysera gives you a card that turn. Not immediate effect, but you always get a card out of playing her. Foe Reaper 4000 might just get hexed as soon as you play it.

There needs to be some sort of unstable genes minion that blows up when transformed into another minion.

[KingZog3]

That new Shaman card is really silly. It's not particularly useful, unless the meta is really aggro heavy. If you're facing a control deck it's just too risky.

EDIT: 4 mana spell, put a random minion from each player's hand into the battlefield.

[Awaclus]

That new Shaman card is really silly. It's not particularly useful, unless the meta is really aggro heavy. If you're facing a control deck it's just too risky.

EDIT: 4 mana spell, put a random minion from each player's hand into the battlefield.

I assume that doesn't mean I get the minion from my opponent's hand?

[popsofctown]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

You mean like a counter to Ysera. Ysera still gives you a card on the turn it's played, and has 12 health.

But Malygos drives home the point. You just can't allow that dragon to stay alive when played by a Rogue.

This new legendary can help clean up Kel'Thuzad's army, and it's something else that can pop up from Sneed's Old Shredder. But of course Sneed has the same problem brought up about 8 mana minions.

8+ mana minions that aren't game winners aren't looked upon highly in constructed. Still, the effect of this legendary is really strong if it gets off an attack.

Do you know why Malygos is only played by Rogues? Because Preparation allows you to get an effect out of it the same turn it's played.  Malygos wouldn't be viable if you had to keep it alive a turn to use it.

Unless you coin out a Charge, super harvest golem has to be kept alive to be used.

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

[markusin]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

You mean like a counter to Ysera. Ysera still gives you a card on the turn it's played, and has 12 health.

But Malygos drives home the point. You just can't allow that dragon to stay alive when played by a Rogue.

This new legendary can help clean up Kel'Thuzad's army, and it's something else that can pop up from Sneed's Old Shredder. But of course Sneed has the same problem brought up about 8 mana minions.

8+ mana minions that aren't game winners aren't looked upon highly in constructed. Still, the effect of this legendary is really strong if it gets off an attack.

Do you know why Malygos is only played by Rogues? Because Preparation allows you to get an effect out of it the same turn it's played.  Malygos wouldn't be viable if you had to keep it alive a turn to use it.

Unless you coin out a Charge, super harvest golem has to be kept alive to be used.

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

Malygos does something on the turn it's played, but it doesn't automatically win the game on that turn. But...it does kill everything with prep->fan. The thing is it wins the game if it survives a turn.

That new Shaman card is really silly. It's not particularly useful, unless the meta is really aggro heavy. If you're facing a control deck it's just too risky.

EDIT: 4 mana spell, put a random minion from each player's hand into the battlefield.

I like the idea of the card. Empty your hand, then play that to get an uber minion with 4 mana. What's lame about the card is that it's a Shaman card. Like, Fire Elemental is bread and butter for Shaman, and this part ruins it's main value by skipping the battlecry.

[Titandrake]

That Shaman card reminds me of Voidcaller, except Voidcaller gives you a decent body and it's much easier to control having 1 demon in hand rather than having 1 big minion in hand. It could be funny in Alarm-o-bot style decks, but I don't think Hearthstone has the right cards to make that deck consistent enough.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Seems terrible to me. In some sense you need the minion you get to be worth 4 mana and 1 card more than the minion your opponent gets, which seems like an incredibly difficult condition to pull off.

[markusin]

Seems terrible to me. In some sense you need the minion you get to be worth 4 mana and 1 card more than the minion your opponent gets, which seems like an incredibly difficult condition to pull off.

And note that Innervate can already let you play a minion 2 mana higher than your curve for 1 extra card. Innervate also doesn't play a card for your opponent! So, you better be plopping down Kel'Thuzad or Ragnaros or something. I'd personally want to summon Thermaplugg with it, but that's more for kicks and giggles.

[blueblimp]

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

Sunwalker has taunt, which also works for justifying high mana. Ancient of War sees play sometimes, costs 7, and only has taunt going for it.

[Jorbles]

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

Sunwalker has taunt, which also works for justifying high mana. Ancient of War sees play sometimes, costs 7, and only has taunt going for it.

I think Ironbark vs AoW is worth considering here. To me it says that from 7-8 is the threshold. AoW is occasionally played as a fat wall for 7 mana, but Ironbark at 8 mana, the size of a giant is mostly used as a budget card to be replaced by other cards when players get them.

[pingpongsam]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

[Awaclus]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

And the argument is that it only gets played because it has the Taunt. There aren't many $6 Minions without a Battlecry, a Deathrattle or Taunt, and the ones that exist don't see a lot of play in Constructed.

I guess Charge and Divine Shield are also reasons to play more expensive Minions, but they're pretty rare on expensive Minions.

[markusin]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

And the argument is that it only gets played because it has the Taunt. There aren't many $6 Minions without a Battlecry, a Deathrattle or Taunt, and the ones that exist don't see a lot of play in Constructed.

I guess Charge and Divine Shield are also reasons to play more expensive Minions, but they're pretty rare on expensive Minions.

Argent Commander doesn't seem half bad in constructed. It can earn it's value at the very least.

[Jorbles]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

And the argument is that it only gets played because it has the Taunt. There aren't many $6 Minions without a Battlecry, a Deathrattle or Taunt, and the ones that exist don't see a lot of play in Constructed.

I guess Charge and Divine Shield are also reasons to play more expensive Minions, but they're pretty rare on expensive Minions.

Argent Commander doesn't seem half bad in constructed. It can earn it's value at the very least.

It used to get played a lot until Sludge Belcher came into existence. Now that Sludge Belcher is in half the decks out there Argent Commander doesn't get nearly as much play.

[markusin]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

And the argument is that it only gets played because it has the Taunt. There aren't many $6 Minions without a Battlecry, a Deathrattle or Taunt, and the ones that exist don't see a lot of play in Constructed.

I guess Charge and Divine Shield are also reasons to play more expensive Minions, but they're pretty rare on expensive Minions.

Argent Commander doesn't seem half bad in constructed. It can earn it's value at the very least.

It used to get played a lot until Sludge Belcher came into existence. Now that Sludge Belcher is in half the decks out there Argent Commander doesn't get nearly as much play.

Yup, Sludge Belchers kept posing a problem for me when I would run Argent Commander.

[Awaclus]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

And the argument is that it only gets played because it has the Taunt. There aren't many $6 Minions without a Battlecry, a Deathrattle or Taunt, and the ones that exist don't see a lot of play in Constructed.

I guess Charge and Divine Shield are also reasons to play more expensive Minions, but they're pretty rare on expensive Minions.

Argent Commander doesn't seem half bad in constructed. It can earn it's value at the very least.

True, and that's because you get to do something before it dies to removal.

[markusin]

So, I've been looking at the comments about Ancestor's Call on other sites. The only combo that really stood out as plausible was summoning Malygos with it. Summon Malygos for 4 mana + Lightning Bolt to destroy the opposing minion or Lightning Storm/Forked Lightning to do a board wipe. This would require a totally different kind of Shaman deck than what is currently used.

This card might be playable if control Shaman was a thing. I can't see that happening though. Shaman has lots of removal, but not as good at maintaining health and card advantage as Warrior and Priest are.

[popsofctown]

Re: big creatures.

Yeah, Malygos doesn't win the game the turn you play it, and protecting it and/or creating a situation where it will survive, like by baiting removal, is part of the strategy you use when you play it.  My point is that doing something useful, and it doesn't have to even be as good as spell damage fan, it can be minor like an Emerald Drake rolling into your hand, something useful has to come out of a minion that costs 7+ mana.

I don't really think Ancient of War is a viable card.  It wasn't in the Reginald list I copied for tournament play, and I didn't run into it all that much the month I made legend.  Dying to removal is a serious issue for the card, and the only deck that Ancient of War does okay against is Zoo, but even Zoo variants with Power overwhelming can pseudo spot remove Ancient of War and beat you anyway.. but mostly the zoo variants aren't expecting it because they know Ancient of War is killing the rest of your matchup spread.

Sunwalker costs 1 less mana which is why it is barely viable.  With a little bit of power creep and development in the game we might not consider Sunwalker a viable card anymore in the future.


Re: Ancestor's Call. I'm cautiously optimistic since Show and Tell is tournament playable in Magic, and that's a similar card.  You choose what you get with that one, which is actually worse since an Ancestor's Call deck won't have cheap guys in it anyway, so only your opponent gets to benefit from picking and choosing.

Of course Magic doesn't have a hardcoded mana cap, so the cost of the available cards is limited by the developers' imaginations.  And I think it took time for enough expensive dudes to exist for it to be good.  But there's potential there.  It might be something that takes a while to become good.

For Ancestor's Call to work you need a backup plan if you don't draw Ancestor's Call and that seems like the trickier part than "is cheating out a Malygos for four mana good enough".  Alarm-o-bot is the only similar effect but Alarm-o-bot doesn't feel aggressively costed, 3 health is just not enough.  Far Sight wants to help, but your deck will have cards that cost less than 3 mana so Far Sight will still suck.  It looks like the best backup plan right now is spam spirit wolves and wait to hardcast but that might not be good enough, especially in a class with no ramp.


I'd be real excited if there's something else in the set to help out.

[markusin]

We're seeing a lot of interesting and new effects with these cards. I think the Dev team is trying to expand the variety of the decks we can see. This second expansion looks like it's opening a lot of possibilities while not introducing too many power cards. I hope future expansions build on some of the concepts introduced in earlier cards in order to create new viable decks.

At any rate, I expect arena to get a lot crazier. Arena is my favourite format, so I'm excited about that.

[EgorK]

AoW is ramp druid card, so it's 7 mana cost is a little bit discounted by the fact it may be played turn 6 without innervate/turn 4 with it

[ycz6]

Two new cards: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16813374/goblins-vs-gnomes-mechs-11-18-2014





Both cards look really strong for Mech zoo/midrange type decks, and Fel Cannon should be good in Arena, too; it's a 3/5 with a pretty strong Mad Bomber-type effect. I suppose Fel Cannon is less good in Mech mirrors, though...

[markusin]

It looks like all the classes will have something neat to do with Mech Warper. For Warrior in particular, t2 Mech Warper into t3 Screwjank Clunker looks potent.

[popsofctown]

Mech tribal looks like it could be pretty strong. 

Will Mr. Bitey get the Mech type?

[markusin]

Mech tribal looks like it could be pretty strong. 

Will Mr. Bitey get the Mech type?

I heard yes.

[blueblimp]

Took me a moment to notice that these are class minions. The cannon seems to break the trend of Warlock class cards being underpowered compared to other classes' cards, because in arena at least, this looks nearly as good as SI:7 Agent. Though the effect recurring is a bit of a pain because it'll make your next turn plays awkward if the cannon hasn't been removed. Screwjank Clunker is comparable to Houndmaster (but missing the taunt), although the 2/5 stats are more defense-oriented.

[popsofctown]

It's rare, so that's fair for arena.

[markusin]

In arena flamecannon is good true. I don't except to see it constructed.

I still think I like frostbolt more due to the ability to hit face. However, it occurred to me that this card can become really good if Spider Tank ends up seeing a lot of play.

[KingZog3]

Druid card. 2mana 2/2, Taunt. Choose one: +1attack or +1health.

Look great for arena, but Druid runs other things for constructed  usually. Wild growth, Wrath. Although it will still see tons of play regardless.

[markusin]

Druid card. 2mana 2/2, Taunt. Choose one: +1attack or +1health.

Look great for arena, but Druid runs other things for constructed  usually. Wild growth, Wrath. Although it will still see tons of play regardless.

It was only a matter of time before we would see a card that's strictly superior to Frostwolf Grunt. Nice alternative to Power of the Wild.

[popsofctown]

Pain! is better for control.  Not focusing on taunt is better for aggro. 

[markusin]

Druid card. 2mana 2/2, Taunt. Choose one: +1attack or +1health.

Look great for arena, but Druid runs other things for constructed  usually. Wild growth, Wrath. Although it will still see tons of play regardless.

A 2/3 taunt is nice for 2, but wouldn't play much differently from Unstable Ghoul. Only makes a difference against 2/2's, so that 's Dire wolf Alpha. Maybe better against Haunted Creeper depending on what other minions are out.

However, we haven't seen 3/2's with taunt before. That's cool because the minion it wants to trade up with can't bypass it and attack face. It can save you a bit of health that way.

I think the mech typing might be what really gives the card a competitive edge. We'll have to see if mech Druid becomes a thing.

[popsofctown]

Zog didn't say it was a mech.  Zog is a slouch

[KingZog3]

Zog didn't say it was a mech.  Zog is a slouch

It's a mech

[ycz6]

Paladin card: http://www.levelup.com/articulos/294273/Revelamos-una-nueva-carta-de-Hearthstone-Goblins-contra-Gnomos

Cobalt Guardian. 5 mana 6/3 Mech: When a Mech is summoned, it (the Cobalt Guardian) gains Divine Shield.

[popsofctown]

I gotta do work to get a five mana 6/5?  No thanks. 
If you can untap with it you can give it divine shield then immediately ram it into stuff, but you might as well try to untap with an auctioneer if you want to win by untapping with low health stuff.

[KingZog3]

Other new pally card. 3 mana spell, summon 3 1/1 silver hand recruits, and a 1/4 weapon.

[popsofctown]

That's funny, it's like getting five hero power activations, two of them rogue, for 3 mana.

It's the best token strategy card that's been given so far and I think Pally could very well have enough token support to make it work.  Avenge gives a pretty decent reward for having lots of dudes, equality synergizes well with 1/1 dudes, and then there's Knife Juggler and Frostwolf Warlord and all the other neutral token support.  If you have a couple spiders to survive board wipes I think a deck like that could be going places.

[KingZog3]

Yeah, and I imagine that there will be some other new cards coming out that will support a strategy like that. I could see this being a thing. Maybe not the best thing, but a thing nonetheless.

[markusin]

Yeah I like the new Paladin card too. You can use it in the way you'd use Razorfen Hunter, except this looks a lot better due to the weapon gain.

[HiveMindEmulator]

^You would use Razorfen Hunter?

[popsofctown]

I don't think this is like Razorfen Hunter.  You won't get mileage out of it unless you have some kind of strategy that rewards you for having lots of dudes.  Razorfen Hunter actually fails to work well in a strategy based on having lots of dudes because the minion count on it is just 2, and you could have cast a 1 drop and a 2 drop instead.

[blueblimp]

About the Paladin spell, Aggro Paladin used to be pretty common on ladder. Maybe it'll make a comeback there. Jeeves is possibly good for that deck too since Divine Favour is a bit unreliable.

Paladin card: http://www.levelup.com/articulos/294273/Revelamos-una-nueva-carta-de-Hearthstone-Goblins-contra-Gnomos

Cobalt Guardian. 5 mana 6/3 Mech: When a Mech is summoned, it (the Cobalt Guardian) gains Divine Shield.

I'm trying to imagine how this card could be good. If you drop it on turn 5, it won't have divine shield and will die inefficiently to pretty much anything (Raptor trade, Frostbolt, etc.). If you drop it later so that you can shield it immediately, it doesn't have impact without taunt or charge. If you're in topdeck mode in arena, you won't have any other mechs in hand to buff it, so it's barely better than topdecking an Injured Blademaster.

[popsofctown]

It's terrible.  They had a stronger version in testing, but it was annoying as mess because divine shield gains can be really annoying, so they overnerfed it before releasing it.  That's my guess.

[markusin]

^You would use Razorfen Hunter?

No, I wouldn't, but I always dreamed of being able to.

Maybe it's more like a reliable variant of Unleash the Hounds. You only get 1 charging damage (the weapon), but you don't need to wait for your opponent's board to be flooded to get value out of this. The hounds have the beast synergy thing going for them, but with this you can always count on getting those 3 juggler knife throws or whatnot.

[markusin]

According to hearthpwn, Sword of Justice can buff the 3 1/1's before being replaced by the 1/4 weapon. That's a relief I guess.

[popsofctown]

I don't think you cut Truesilver and I don't think you run 6 weapons in a deck so I don't think the Sword of Justice's interaction is relevant.

[markusin]

I don't think you cut Truesilver and I don't think you run 6 weapons in a deck so I don't think the Sword of Justice's interaction is relevant.

It is in Arena.

[ycz6]

I don't think you cut Truesilver and I don't think you run 6 weapons in a deck so I don't think the Sword of Justice's interaction is relevant.

Huh? 6 weapons?

[markusin]

I don't think you cut Truesilver and I don't think you run 6 weapons in a deck so I don't think the Sword of Justice's interaction is relevant.

Huh? 6 weapons?

Counting the new card as a weapon.

[KingZog3]

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16860230/?utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F

Two new cards.

The druid card seems good. Stats are good, and you get 1-2 spare parts as a bonus.

I'm not sure about the legendary. 5/7 for 6 is good though, but the spare parts aren't as big a bonus as Cairne or Sylvannas. Perhaps the spare parts will interact in a way that makes him a lot better.

[Galzria]

Yeah, the neutral card is just a weakened version of the Druid card. While technically you might only get one spare part with the Druid card, you're likely to get at least two, and possibly more.

[ashersky]

Looks like the "fill your opponent's hand to burn cards" thing might get more viable.

[Galzria]

Interesting that spare parts are classified as spells though. Depending on other ways to obtain Spare Parts yet to be announced, you may be able to explode your hand with many 1-cost spells before letting out a VanCleef or the like. They may make combo's and chains (in large numbers) much more obtainable, and on fewer "in hand" cards to start with.

Vancleef is probably a poor example, as he doesn't care about card type. Take Violet Teacher instead then, to explode Tokens.

[markusin]

Yeah, the neutral card is just a weakened version of the Druid card. While technically you might only get one spare part with the Druid card, you're likely to get at least two, and possibly more.

I think the legendary might be better. It has 1 extra health, and 5 attack is enough to kill Cairne or Sludge Belcher. You're also guaranteed to get 1 spare part, and you can use it right away on your Legendary if you play it with 7 mana.

If the Druid card gets removed with SW:Death or Hex, you get no spare parts, and only 1 spare part if removed with Execute. It also happens to be in Big Game Hunter range, which may or may not be too relevant depending on the meta. However, the Druid card is a mech, so it may very well be better depending on what mech synergy is available.

[Galzria]

Yeah, the neutral card is just a weakened version of the Druid card. While technically you might only get one spare part with the Druid card, you're likely to get at least two, and possibly more.

I think the legendary might be better. It has 1 extra health, and 5 attack is enough to kill Cairne or Sludge Belcher. You're also guaranteed to get 1 spare part, and you can use it right away on your Legendary if you play it with 7 mana.

If the Druid card gets removed with SW:Death or Hex, you get no spare parts, and only 1 spare part if removed with Execute. It also happens to be in Big Game Hunter range, which may or may not be too relevant depending on the meta. However, the Druid card is a mech, so it may very well be better depending on what mech synergy is available.

To be fair, the Legendary getting hit by Hex or Polymorph is just as bad. Well, it grants 1 Spare Part in the trade compared to 0, but I don't think either are trades you're looking for...

That said, 7 Health isn't nothing compared to 6. It puts it outside of Fireball Range. And the BGH point is something as well.

[popsofctown]

Toshley will be quite at home in my expanded miracle druid deck, but i'm not sure whether bearcat will.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Interesting that spare parts are classified as spells though. Depending on other ways to obtain Spare Parts yet to be announced, you may be able to explode your hand with many 1-cost spells before letting out a VanCleef or the like. They may make combo's and chains (in large numbers) much more obtainable, and on fewer "in hand" cards to start with.

Vancleef is probably a poor example, as he doesn't care about card type. Take Violet Teacher instead then, to explode Tokens.

I would think Auctioneer is the big one.

[popsofctown]

Auctioneer's interaction with spare parts is HUGE.  Especially drawing Conceal as a spare part, good night. 

[blueblimp]

A shame to put new cards at 6 mana, where they have to compete with Sylvanas, Cairne, The Black Knight, and even Sunwalker for constructed relevance, meaning they're unlikely to be constructed relevant without being really strong, which these aren't. 7/6 is horrible stats, because typical current Druid decks don't run any BGH targets at all, and BGH is popular recently. BGH may even get more popular in decks running spare parts generators, because Whirling Blades can buff 6-attack minions into BGH range (though admittedly, 6 attack minions are not very common). 5/7-and-two-spare-parts is OK but pretty meh compared to the power available at 6 mana.

[popsofctown]

In a deck with Gadgetzan, Toshley offers a belated card draw even if it gets hexed, while Cairne just gets Hexed.  I think that's pretty attractive.

[Jorbles]

The parts seem really good to me. They all let you put positive changes down on the board and will often allow you to trade or protect a card that you otherwise wouldn't be able to. The only downside I see is that the cards that generate the parts are so expensive that you won't be getting the parts until the late game, but if you could get these cards in the first few turns they could have a big big impact on board control in the early game. I hope there's something that lets you get parts earlier that I haven't seen yet.

[markusin]

The parts seem really good to me. They all let you put positive changes down on the board and will often allow you to trade or protect a card that you otherwise wouldn't be able to. The only downside I see is that the cards that generate the parts are so expensive that you won't be getting the parts until the late game, but if you could get these cards in the first few turns they could have a big big impact on board control in the early game. I hope there's something that lets you get parts earlier that I haven't seen yet.

Well, there is that 2/1 for 1 mana with a deathrattle that gives you a spare part. Also Tinkertown Technician.

[Jorbles]

The parts seem really good to me. They all let you put positive changes down on the board and will often allow you to trade or protect a card that you otherwise wouldn't be able to. The only downside I see is that the cards that generate the parts are so expensive that you won't be getting the parts until the late game, but if you could get these cards in the first few turns they could have a big big impact on board control in the early game. I hope there's something that lets you get parts earlier that I haven't seen yet.

Well, there is that 2/1 for 1 mana with a deathrattle that gives you a spare part. Also Tinkertown Technician.

I had not seen that one, but wow a situational 3 mana 4/4 +a card? Worst case it's a vanilla 3/3. That seems really good.

[markusin]

The new weapon just revealed looks awesome.

2/3 weapon for 3 mana that gives a random friendly minion divine shield and taunt.

Not sure what class it's for.

[popsofctown]

As unroguish as it seems, that's definitely the Rogue background color on the card.

[Jorbles]

As unroguish as it seems, that's definitely the Rogue background color on the card.

On r/hearthstone they are calling it a Paladin weapon which makes more sense thematically.

[popsofctown]

That's probably why it's so strong, Rogue needs lots of power on their weapon to offset how it denies them access to their hero power.  Perdition's Blade is great compared to Stormforged Axe but Stormforged sees play, Blade doesn't.

This is generally better than Perdition's Blade, offering you the same 6 points of damage in 3 payments.  You take a little more damage since you have to do the fighting yourself with the coghammer, but one of your minions is relieved of a similar amount of damage, and generally you want to funnel health from yourself to your precious minions.

[popsofctown]

oh, Pally cards are kinda black too I guess.

Well, that's less exciting, I don't know how well this competes with Truesilver Undercosted.

[nkirbit]

Certainly a good combo with ancient watcher.

[theory]

Certainly a good combo with ancient watcher.

Especially because they don't want to silence it.

[HiveMindEmulator]

oh, Pally cards are kinda black too I guess.

Well, that's less exciting, I don't know how well this competes with Truesilver Undercosted.

Weapons are all blackish. The class indication is the faint border of the text (terrible, I know), which is yellow, indicating Paladin -- unless it's brown... but it seems more likely to be a Paladin weapon than a Druid one.

[Jorbles]

oh, Pally cards are kinda black too I guess.

Well, that's less exciting, I don't know how well this competes with Truesilver Undercosted.

Weapons are all blackish. The class indication is the faint border of the text (terrible, I know), which is yellow, indicating Paladin -- unless it's brown... but it seems more likely to be a Paladin weapon than a Druid one.

I just saw Trump talk about it on Twitch and it is indeed a Paladin weapon. As a Paladin weapon it's interesting, but doesn't break anything, but your comment made me think "OMG IF IT WERE A DRUID WEAPON IT WOULD BE SO GOOD AND BROKEN". Crazy how cards have so much meaning based on what class they are.

[KingZog3]

Hunter card revealed.

2mana spell. Draw a card. If it's a beast it costs 4 less.

[shraeye]

tag

[Titandrake]

Hunter card revealed.

2mana spell. Draw a card. If it's a beast it costs 4 less.

...Huh.  Really don't know how to judge it. If you draw Highmane, then you're really happy. If you don't, I cant think of too many other beast cards you'd care about. Animal Companion is a spell so its cost doesn't go down, and most other beasts people run are cheap 2-3 mana ones.

Depends what other beasts there are in the new expansion, but I think the upside isn't good enough to play it.

[KingZog3]

Hunter card revealed.

2mana spell. Draw a card. If it's a beast it costs 4 less.

...Huh.  Really don't know how to judge it. If you draw Highmane, then you're really happy. If you don't, I cant think of too many other beast cards you'd care about. Animal Companion is a spell so its cost doesn't go down, and most other beasts people run are cheap 2-3 mana ones.

Depends what other beasts there are in the new expansion, but I think the upside isn't good enough to play it.

I think if you have a more midrange Hunter deck with beasts, you can think of this as a better Shiv for deck thinning. Maybe you take Flare out and put this in instead.

[blueblimp]

Coghammer (https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/535868745445429248/photo/1) is odd. It seems suited for arena in some ways, where you can't draft two Truesilver Champions every time, but it's epic so it won't show up very often. DS+Taunt is useful, especially in arena, but a 2/3 weapon on turn 3 is kinda bad.

[Jorbles]

Hunter card revealed.

2mana spell. Draw a card. If it's a beast it costs 4 less.

...Huh.  Really don't know how to judge it. If you draw Highmane, then you're really happy. If you don't, I cant think of too many other beast cards you'd care about. Animal Companion is a spell so its cost doesn't go down, and most other beasts people run are cheap 2-3 mana ones.

Depends what other beasts there are in the new expansion, but I think the upside isn't good enough to play it.

I don't think it's that good when you consider worst case scenario. 2 mana draw a card is a terrible possibility when you're spending a card to do it. You need too many beasts in your deck for it to be worthwhile.

[markusin]

Hunter card revealed.

2mana spell. Draw a card. If it's a beast it costs 4 less.

...Huh.  Really don't know how to judge it. If you draw Highmane, then you're really happy. If you don't, I cant think of too many other beast cards you'd care about. Animal Companion is a spell so its cost doesn't go down, and most other beasts people run are cheap 2-3 mana ones.

Depends what other beasts there are in the new expansion, but I think the upside isn't good enough to play it.

I don't think it's that good when you consider worst case scenario. 2 mana draw a card is a terrible possibility when you're spending a card to do it. You need too many beasts in your deck for it to be worthwhile.

With the current set of beasts, this card is not worth it. Let's wait and see what that new Hunter legendary is going to be. The worth of this card might shoot up depending on what beasts are added to the game on GvG.

[markusin]

Okay, the way Blizzard is revealing these cards is incredibly scattered and annoying. Here's another one apparently:
http://www.pcgamer.com/hearthstone-card-reveal-iron-sensei/

Rogue card called Iron Sensei. 3 mana 2/2 mech. Reads "At the end of your turn, give another friendly Mech +2/+2."

Edit: okay not annoying in the frequency sense. For that I grateful. It would be great if all the revealed cards could be announced in one place.

[Galzria]

Well, a second player T3 dropping Iron Sensei + Coin + Conceal, followed by a T4 Master of Disguise could have some potential. End of Turn 2/2 Bonus is pretty threatening if you don't have an AoE / Random Target removal spell.

[markusin]

Well, a second player T3 dropping Iron Sensei + Coin + Conceal, followed by a T4 Master of Disguise could have some potential. End of Turn 2/2 Bonus is pretty threatening if you don't have an AoE / Random Target removal spell.

But it can't buff itself.

[Galzria]

Well, a second player T3 dropping Iron Sensei + Coin + Conceal, followed by a T4 Master of Disguise could have some potential. End of Turn 2/2 Bonus is pretty threatening if you don't have an AoE / Random Target removal spell.

But it can't buff itself.

No, but I've got to believe that they're aiming for Mech heavy decks being a thing here.

[popsofctown]

Disguised sensei would indeed be the new best "contributing without dealing damage" card. 

[EgorK]

New mage minion revealed - 2 mana, 2/3, freezes "damaged by this" characters

[KingZog3]

New mage minion revealed - 2 mana, 2/3, freezes "damaged by this" characters

Not sure what to think. stats are fine, but the reason the freeze is good on water elemental is because of it's high health. Still, I think this is good enough to play. Certainly in arena it's a fine pick.

[popsofctown]

I think it's more that Yeti>River croc, and Water Elemental is a Yeti and the new thing is a River Croc.

[markusin]

I think it's more that Yeti>River croc, and Water Elemental is a Yeti and the new thing is a River Croc.

At least it's another card that can keep weapon users + druid in perpetual freeze. Plus, it's a mech to activate Goblin Blast mage. But meh, when attacking minions in turn 2-3 it's pretty much just River Croc. Kinda conflicts with the Sorceror's Apprentice + Mana Wyrm early game style.

[blueblimp]

I think it's more that Yeti>River croc, and Water Elemental is a Yeti and the new thing is a River Croc.

With Water Elemental, its 3/6 stats are arguably even better than Yeti's 4/5, even ignoring the freeze. So yeah, River Croc plus freeze is not exciting. I expect it to only see constructed play in mech decks. (It will see play in Mage mech decks, like how River Croc saw play in Hunter before Naxx introduced Haunted Creeper.)

[blueblimp]

Shaman gets a 3/2 for 2... with Windfury.
http://toucharcade.com/2014/11/24/exclusive-hearthstone-goblins-vs-gnomes-card-reveal-whirling-zap-o-matic/

Crazy. This outclasses every other windfury minion in the game by a huge margin. It's very nearly a pre-enraged Raging Worgen, and for 2 mana instead of 3.

[KingZog3]

Shaman gets a 3/2 for 2... with Windfury.
http://toucharcade.com/2014/11/24/exclusive-hearthstone-goblins-vs-gnomes-card-reveal-whirling-zap-o-matic/

Crazy. This outclasses every other windfury minion in the game by a huge margin. It's very nearly a pre-enraged Raging Worgen, and for 2 mana instead of 3.

Oh man. I play so much Shaman, and this makes me happy. I'm feeling lots of people trying aggro Shaman without Mana Baddict this time.

[markusin]

Shaman gets a 3/2 for 2... with Windfury.
http://toucharcade.com/2014/11/24/exclusive-hearthstone-goblins-vs-gnomes-card-reveal-whirling-zap-o-matic/

Crazy. This outclasses every other windfury minion in the game by a huge margin. It's very nearly a pre-enraged Raging Worgen, and for 2 mana instead of 3.

So, uh, this confirms what I saw at the 5:00 min mark in this video:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JL8XxTzBLjo

I was confused as to why the internet wasn't talking about that.

[Jorbles]

I think it's more that Yeti>River croc, and Water Elemental is a Yeti and the new thing is a River Croc.

At least it's another card that can keep weapon users + druid in perpetual freeze. Plus, it's a mech to activate Goblin Blast mage. But meh, when attacking minions in turn 2-3 it's pretty much just River Croc. Kinda conflicts with the Sorceror's Apprentice + Mana Wyrm early game style.

I think there will be some interesting interactions with this where it can hit a 3 health minion and then you don't have to plan on finishing it off for a turn, but, probably a better Arena card than a Constructed one.

[markusin]

Oh, and here's that beast legendary that was being voted for:
Gahz'rila.

7 mana 6/9 beast
Whenever this minion takes damage, double its attack.

Call Pet looking better yet?

So even without the ability, this card's stats are totally on curve. The next step up after Highmane if so desired.

[markusin]

I think it's more that Yeti>River croc, and Water Elemental is a Yeti and the new thing is a River Croc.

At least it's another card that can keep weapon users + druid in perpetual freeze. Plus, it's a mech to activate Goblin Blast mage. But meh, when attacking minions in turn 2-3 it's pretty much just River Croc. Kinda conflicts with the Sorceror's Apprentice + Mana Wyrm early game style.

I think there will be some interesting interactions with this where it can hit a 3 health minion and then you don't have to plan on finishing it off for a turn, but, probably a better Arena card than a Constructed one.

The same happens with frostbolt against 4 health minions sometimes, but usually you finish off the target outright with Frostbolt.

[Jorbles]

Shaman gets a 3/2 for 2... with Windfury.
http://toucharcade.com/2014/11/24/exclusive-hearthstone-goblins-vs-gnomes-card-reveal-whirling-zap-o-matic/

Crazy. This outclasses every other windfury minion in the game by a huge margin. It's very nearly a pre-enraged Raging Worgen, and for 2 mana instead of 3.

Oh man. I play so much Shaman, and this makes me happy. I'm feeling lots of people trying aggro Shaman without Mana Baddict this time.

Wowowowow that is such a good 2 drop. Comparing it to the minions that start with Windfury (of which only Worgen and Al'Akir are playable) that is a huge card. Can you imagine coining this out and then playing Flametongue Totem or Rockbiter weapon the next turn? So scary. Shaman aggro is definitely coming.

[markusin]

Shaman gets a 3/2 for 2... with Windfury.
http://toucharcade.com/2014/11/24/exclusive-hearthstone-goblins-vs-gnomes-card-reveal-whirling-zap-o-matic/

Crazy. This outclasses every other windfury minion in the game by a huge margin. It's very nearly a pre-enraged Raging Worgen, and for 2 mana instead of 3.

Oh man. I play so much Shaman, and this makes me happy. I'm feeling lots of people trying aggro Shaman without Mana Baddict this time.

Wowowowow that is such a good 2 drop. Comparing it to the minions that start with Windfury (of which only Worgen and Al'Akir are playable) that is a huge card. Can you imagine coining this out and then playing Flametongue Totem or Rockbiter weapon the next turn? So scary. Shaman aggro is definitely coming.

Man, why did they even make Dust Devil. This is like the pseudo Thief->Noble Brigand buff.

[Jorbles]

I think it's more that Yeti>River croc, and Water Elemental is a Yeti and the new thing is a River Croc.

At least it's another card that can keep weapon users + druid in perpetual freeze. Plus, it's a mech to activate Goblin Blast mage. But meh, when attacking minions in turn 2-3 it's pretty much just River Croc. Kinda conflicts with the Sorceror's Apprentice + Mana Wyrm early game style.

I think there will be some interesting interactions with this where it can hit a 3 health minion and then you don't have to plan on finishing it off for a turn, but, probably a better Arena card than a Constructed one.

The same happens with frostbolt against 4 health minions sometimes, but usually you finish off the target outright with Frostbolt.

True, but this will sometimes leave you with a 2/1 or 2/2 minion after doing the freeze which frostbolt doesn't. It could maybe be used in Freeze Mage in Constructed?

[Jorbles]

Shaman gets a 3/2 for 2... with Windfury.
http://toucharcade.com/2014/11/24/exclusive-hearthstone-goblins-vs-gnomes-card-reveal-whirling-zap-o-matic/

Crazy. This outclasses every other windfury minion in the game by a huge margin. It's very nearly a pre-enraged Raging Worgen, and for 2 mana instead of 3.

Oh man. I play so much Shaman, and this makes me happy. I'm feeling lots of people trying aggro Shaman without Mana Baddict this time.

Wowowowow that is such a good 2 drop. Comparing it to the minions that start with Windfury (of which only Worgen and Al'Akir are playable) that is a huge card. Can you imagine coining this out and then playing Flametongue Totem or Rockbiter weapon the next turn? So scary. Shaman aggro is definitely coming.

Man, why did they even make Dust Devil. This is like the pseudo Thief->Noble Brigand buff.

So true. I thought the same thing when I saw it.

[popsofctown]

Wow. A vanilla curved Windfury minion.

Although I think 2/3s are better than 3/2s in constructed and prefer 3/2 abilities that affect board instead of face (like Knife Juggler) on its good days, I think you have to jump on the hype train for the 3/2 windfury guy for sure.  Shieldbearer already fits and works rather well in a Shaman deck, and with this six damage swing potential here I think shamans will have little issue justifying Shieldbearer's inclusion to protect Whirler (shall we call it Whirler or Zappo?).

Zoo will get the biggest middle finger from Whirler and I love it.  A Shieldbearer - Whirler opening will be hard to get through with minions and Soulfire is the only removal that ignores taunt, and it's a bit "over costed" for removing Whirler.  Meanwhile the six damage is most relevant against Warlocks because they tap so much, and Shaman has some direct burn to finish the job.  (It'd rarely be only six, you run flametongue, probably Dwolf alpha, and rockbiter in this kind of deck.  Let alone the mech buffs).

Most of the other classes have spot removal to deal with a taunt-whirler opening, and most of the other classes have AoE later on to punish you for putting a 3/2 without immediate effects in your deck, so I think it will be balanced and not break the game.

[Jorbles]

Wow. A vanilla curved Windfury minion.

Although I think 2/3s are better than 3/2s in constructed and prefer 3/2 abilities that affect board instead of face (like Knife Juggler) on its good days, I think you have to jump on the hype train for the 3/2 windfury guy for sure.  Shieldbearer already fits and works rather well in a Shaman deck, and with this six damage swing potential here I think shamans will have little issue justifying Shieldbearer's inclusion to protect Whirler (shall we call it Whirler or Zappo?).

Zoo will get the biggest middle finger from Whirler and I love it.  A Shieldbearer - Whirler opening will be hard to get through with minions and Soulfire is the only removal that ignores taunt, and it's a bit "over costed" for removing Whirler.  Meanwhile the six damage is most relevant against Warlocks because they tap so much, and Shaman has some direct burn to finish the job.  (It'd rarely be only six, you run flametongue, probably Dwolf alpha, and rockbiter in this kind of deck.  Let alone the mech buffs).

Most of the other classes have spot removal to deal with a taunt-whirler opening, and most of the other classes have AoE later on to punish you for putting a 3/2 without immediate effects in your deck, so I think it will be balanced and not break the game.

It's also a common. I'm going to craft 2 of these immediately when the expansion drops.

[popsofctown]

Wow. A vanilla curved Windfury minion.

Although I think 2/3s are better than 3/2s in constructed and prefer 3/2 abilities that affect board instead of face (like Knife Juggler) on its good days, I think you have to jump on the hype train for the 3/2 windfury guy for sure.  Shieldbearer already fits and works rather well in a Shaman deck, and with this six damage swing potential here I think shamans will have little issue justifying Shieldbearer's inclusion to protect Whirler (shall we call it Whirler or Zappo?).

Zoo will get the biggest middle finger from Whirler and I love it.  A Shieldbearer - Whirler opening will be hard to get through with minions and Soulfire is the only removal that ignores taunt, and it's a bit "over costed" for removing Whirler.  Meanwhile the six damage is most relevant against Warlocks because they tap so much, and Shaman has some direct burn to finish the job.  (It'd rarely be only six, you run flametongue, probably Dwolf alpha, and rockbiter in this kind of deck.  Let alone the mech buffs).

Most of the other classes have spot removal to deal with a taunt-whirler opening, and most of the other classes have AoE later on to punish you for putting a 3/2 without immediate effects in your deck, so I think it will be balanced and not break the game.

It's also a common. I'm going to craft 2 of these immediately when the expansion drops.

But commons are the most dust inefficient crafting target

[pingpongsam]

I'm not doing anything when the new expansion drops but waiting to see how they work it into Arena awards. I need to know if the gold I am currently accumulating is better spent buying packs or tickets. If Arena awards are going to randomly award the old card packs then I'll probably just buy packs.

[Jorbles]

Wow. A vanilla curved Windfury minion.

Although I think 2/3s are better than 3/2s in constructed and prefer 3/2 abilities that affect board instead of face (like Knife Juggler) on its good days, I think you have to jump on the hype train for the 3/2 windfury guy for sure.  Shieldbearer already fits and works rather well in a Shaman deck, and with this six damage swing potential here I think shamans will have little issue justifying Shieldbearer's inclusion to protect Whirler (shall we call it Whirler or Zappo?).

Zoo will get the biggest middle finger from Whirler and I love it.  A Shieldbearer - Whirler opening will be hard to get through with minions and Soulfire is the only removal that ignores taunt, and it's a bit "over costed" for removing Whirler.  Meanwhile the six damage is most relevant against Warlocks because they tap so much, and Shaman has some direct burn to finish the job.  (It'd rarely be only six, you run flametongue, probably Dwolf alpha, and rockbiter in this kind of deck.  Let alone the mech buffs).

Most of the other classes have spot removal to deal with a taunt-whirler opening, and most of the other classes have AoE later on to punish you for putting a 3/2 without immediate effects in your deck, so I think it will be balanced and not break the game.

It's also a common. I'm going to craft 2 of these immediately when the expansion drops.

But commons are the most dust inefficient crafting target

But that card is so good I want it immediately! I guess I'll still spend all my gold on packs first and see if I get it, but if I don't I will not wait to craft that card.

[markusin]

I'm not doing anything when the new expansion drops but waiting to see how they work it into Arena awards. I need to know if the gold I am currently accumulating is better spent buying packs or tickets. If Arena awards are going to randomly award the old card packs then I'll probably just buy packs.

Arena is supposed to only award the expansion packs once the expansion comes out. So, you're stuck buying regular packs if you want base set cards.

[popsofctown]

Thus dies my dream of cracking a second golden Faerie Dragon

[blueblimp]

Yeah, this card is probably reasonable power in constructed, since there 3/2s are only used for their crazy effects. I guess my reaction was more thinking of arena, where you're already in a tough spot if you draw a poor opening hand against a raptor. Against this guy, if you can't remove it, you're going to take a huge amount of face damage very quickly. (Also, I forgot about Al'Akir, which is still the best windfury minion.)

[popsofctown]

This is our town scrub.

[Titandrake]

3/2 windfury for 2 sounds way overtuned. If you don't have the removal, you take so much damage from this that you probably lose. If you do, then it's most likely a 1-for-1 trade anyways and that's okay too.

2/2 windfury for 2 would probably have been okay, compare to the 3 mana 2/3 windfury.

[markusin]

3/2 windfury for 2 sounds way overtuned. If you don't have the removal, you take so much damage from this that you probably lose. If you do, then it's most likely a 1-for-1 trade anyways and that's okay too.

2/2 windfury for 2 would probably have been okay, compare to the 3 mana 2/3 windfury.

It'a still far from broken though. With only 2 health, it's unlikely to kill 2 minions with its windfury. It just does some face damage at the same time. I'd be worried if there are shaman cards that buff mechs by turn 3 or 4.

So, no one has anything to say about that Hunter Legendary? It looks like it will strongly encourage midrange Hunter decks.

Edit: Ah wait, forgot about all those attack buff cards (Flametongue, Dire Wolf). Scary.

[pingpongsam]

I'm not doing anything when the new expansion drops but waiting to see how they work it into Arena awards. I need to know if the gold I am currently accumulating is better spent buying packs or tickets. If Arena awards are going to randomly award the old card packs then I'll probably just buy packs.

Arena is supposed to only award the expansion packs once the expansion comes out. So, you're stuck buying regular packs if you want base set cards.

I think you misunderstand. i want the new cards and I don't want to randomly get awarded old ones. I've not seen conclusive evidence that arena is strictly going to award new cards.

[Watno]

https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/530891678719016961

[Jorbles]

So, no one has anything to say about that Hunter Legendary? It looks like it will strongly encourage midrange Hunter decks.

Might make Tundra Rhino see some more play? Currently there's not a lot of beasts that particularly need to charge, but this gives you some nice possibilities. Though it's not perfectly on curve. You could play turn 6 Rhino into turn 7 Godzilla (I'm just going to call it that) kill one of their larger minions and have a 12/something minion or just use him as a fireball to do 6 face damage that's hard to remove. (note he's just below BGH threshold).

This also might make more pings get put into hunter decks. Aggravating Godzilla with Arcane Shot/Elven Archer/Unstable Ghoul/Wild Pyromancer/Mad Bomber to do 12 (or 24?) damage instead of 6 seems so strong the game could easily be decided based on that damage hitting face.

I dunno, it looks like you have to build around him to make him good, but he definitely has the potential to kill someone in a single turn.

[pingpongsam]

https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/530891678719016961

Right, twitter, glad somebody reads that.

[popsofctown]

If Leeroy was still around I'd be more worried about Whirler, but without Leeroy there's not an excessive amount of finishing power in Shaman to the point that this is broken.  Bloodlust only works if you have board control, denying board control to the guy playing 2 mana 3/2s isn't hard.  Lightning bolt and Rockbiter are good.  You can't really put Lava Burst in a deck and feel good about it because it's so bad early.

I don't think taking 10 to the face will be game over for most classes.  Shaman is not a bursty finisher kind of class, especially now that Leeroy isn't even a possibility.  When I played handlock, a hand with Jaraxxus and the 7 worst cards in my deck was usually an autowin against Shaman because they were so. damn. slow.

The beast legend seems unplayable.  Loses hard to spot removal, and doesn't protect its owner from death by 1000 tiny minions.

[nkirbit]

Does cruel taskmaster make him 14 or 16 attack?

Dodging bgh the turn you play him is always nice. And costing 7, which is a weak spot on the legendary curve currently. I think he'll see some play because people will want to try him out, and he'll be fine but not insane.  I can't imagine him being stronger than highmane

[ashersky]

Does anyone have a quick and easy Pally Face deck I can copy?  I'm having the worst time with the "Win 5 games with Priest or Paladin" quest because I don't play either class.

I've got some odd Zoo+Divine Shield thing built, but it's not great.

[Kirian]

Does anyone have a quick and easy Pally Face deck I can copy?  I'm having the worst time with the "Win 5 games with Priest or Paladin" quest because I don't play either class.

I've got some odd Zoo+Divine Shield thing built, but it's not great.

Alas, I can't give you anything quick and easy, but I do have "slow, ponderous, and erratic" available if you like.

[ashersky]

Does anyone have a quick and easy Pally Face deck I can copy?  I'm having the worst time with the "Win 5 games with Priest or Paladin" quest because I don't play either class.

I've got some odd Zoo+Divine Shield thing built, but it's not great.

Alas, I can't give you anything quick and easy, but I do have "slow, ponderous, and erratic" available if you like.

Those seem to be in abundance.

My current iteration relies on that sword that buffs minions to flood the board with 2-4 middling minions of 2/2 to 3/4 strength, along with some board control spells, and Divine Favor to draw up.  I don't really have a finisher except for Leeroy and one Avenging Wrath, though.

[nkirbit]

Do you have the naxx cards?  Undertaker priest aggro is a fine deck if you do.  It runs a few legendaries, but they aren't key to what the deck is doing really.. the important cards are all the deathrattles from Naxx.

[ashersky]

Do you have the naxx cards?  Undertaker priest aggro is a fine deck if you do.  It runs a few legendaries, but they aren't key to what the deck is doing really.. the important cards are all the deathrattles from Naxx.

Yeah, I do.  I guess I could throw that together.  Does it need Shadow Madness/Shadowform/etc.?  I'm lacking all shadow cards except for one Soulpriest.

[nkirbit]

http://imgur.com/2yhd7Ly.  Try this.  If you're a card or two short, replace it with whatever you fancy.. you should have all the cards for the central focus of the deck from Naxx and basic cards.

[ashersky]

http://imgur.com/2yhd7Ly.  Try this.  If you're a card or two short, replace it with whatever you fancy.. you should have all the cards for the central focus of the deck from Naxx and basic cards.

Nice!  Thanks a bunch.  I'm just missing 1x Holy Fire from that.  I'll slot in Leeroy.

[markusin]

http://imgur.com/2yhd7Ly.  Try this.  If you're a card or two short, replace it with whatever you fancy.. you should have all the cards for the central focus of the deck from Naxx and basic cards.

I've heard of these decks, but  don't think I've seen them, or at least not a good version of it. How strong is it? I prefer the control Priest archetype (like, one that includes Mind Control), but it runs 2 Auchenais and a Shadow Priest, so kinda expensive on dust.

Either way, Zombie Chow provides a lot of value.

Man, I can't wait for GvG to come out so I can try a crazy deathrattle-mech-healthboost deck with maybe Rivendare and Inner Fire.

[nkirbit]

They're fine, I think.  The idea is that they're a deck that's capable of powering out fast undertaker starts, but is a little slower and has more powerful cards than the hunter deck.  I think you can build it to beat hunter, which is a good feature of every deck.  And it's tons of fun to play.

I think the main reason they're not seen much is that hunter and zoo are just better.  If you're going to play an undertaker deck, shouldn't you just play the best one?  Hunter is significantly more powerful at ending the game quickly against control decks, while priest can't end nearly as quickly and will struggle against decks like Priest, Druid, and Warrior in the late game, and doesn't have hunter's hero power to make handlock a good matchup or provide finishing power in general.  If you're going to be an aggro deck that's playing one drops, you'd much rather have a power that does two damage.  You also don't have the warlock hero power to run a zoo plan as effectively as warlock does.  So you end up in a weird mash of Hunter and Zoo, and that makes you much worse against slow decks.

There should probably be shadow word deaths in that deck.. I forgot to put them in.

[popsofctown]

Mechwarper is ridiculous.  That might be the best card in the set.

Replicate Mechwarper as a mage and now you're playing Affinity.

[markusin]

Mechwarper is ridiculous.  That might be the best card in the set.

Replicate Mechwarper as a mage and now you're playing Affinity.

This is my suspicion as well. So far, it's the card that does the most to enable Mech decks, and it's a Mech itself.

[ashersky]

Are we expecting the new expansion with the new month?

[KingZog3]

Are we expecting the new expansion with the new month?

Yes, they confirmed release on December the 1st.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Are we expecting the new expansion with the new month?

Yes, they confirmed release on December the 1st.

Source?

[KingZog3]

Are we expecting the new expansion with the new month?

Yes, they confirmed release on December the 1st.

Source?

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure it's the first of December, but I can only find that it'll be released in December sometime.

[markusin]

Are we expecting the new expansion with the new month?

Yes, they confirmed release on December the 1st.

Source?

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure it's the first of December, but I can only find that it'll be released in December sometime.

I thought it was an open question. They haven't made any placeholders for December card reveals on the reveal voting site (I believe the last placeholder is for November 28). I think they're just allowing themselves the option to release it at any point in December when it's ready.

Of course I hope they release it on December first. They might, but this is also the team who said they'd release Naxx wings on Tuesday, then release them at 11:59pm Tuesday. At worst, we get a New Year's release.

[popsofctown]

Mech zoo seems frightfully strong.  Clockwork Gnome, Cogmaster, Micromachine, Piloted Shredder, Fel Cannon, Spider tank, Mechwarper, Harvest Golem.

[KingZog3]

Two new ogre cards. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16893475?abt=nav1&utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F

[Jorbles]

Two new ogre cards. http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16893475?abt=nav1&utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F

Was just going to post about these both have a 50% chance of "attacking the wrong enemy" but have great stats.

Ogre Ninja - Rogue card
5 mana - 6/6 Stealth - 50% chance of attacking the wrong enemy

Dunemaul Shaman - Shaman card
4 mana - 5/4 Windfury, Overload (1) - 50% chance of attacking the wrong enemy

Edit: this 50% chance ignores things that prevent targeting normally (Stealth, Taunt). It's not clear what they do on an empty board, but presumably it just hits the enemy hero regardless, if there's only one possible target.

[Kirian]

Ogre.... Ninja...

Something's wrong here.

And knowing Blizz, I fully expect "In December" to become 31 December at 23:59 Pacific time.

[popsofctown]

Ogre ninja is probably the better card.  Overloading can hurt a lot and an above curve body is more content to fight pretty much whatever, a 5/4 wants to attack something specific.

[Galzria]

Is it still held by taunt?

[markusin]

Ogre.... Ninja...

Something's wrong here.

And knowing Blizz, I fully expect "In December" to become 31 December at 23:59 Pacific time.

Nah man, it has an extra head to spot guards with.

Ogre ninja is probably the better card.  Overloading can hurt a lot and an above curve body is more content to fight pretty much whatever, a 5/4 wants to attack something specific.

Inclined to agree, plus the ninja has stealth. In that sense, it's a variant to Tiger. The Windfury one is more unique. What's really cool about it is that it can boost Unbound Elemental on curve and without using an overload spell suboptimally.

[markusin]

Is it still held by taunt?

Read Jorbles' post. If you target a taunt minion but it attacks the wrong enemy, that wrong enemy can a minion without taunt, or a stealthed minion, or even the enemy hero.

[nkirbit]

Is it still held by taunt?

Read Jorbles' post. If you target a taunt minion but it attacks the wrong enemy, that wrong enemy can a minion without taunt, or a stealthed minion, or even the enemy hero.

Being able to kill a stealthed auctioneer is cool.

I really, really like the design of the random attack minions.  They seem like they're going to be really interesting to play with.  Do you attack with them first, and then respond to the attack?  Or do you attack with other minions first to try and eliminate the worse targets for the minions?  The idea of cards that cause you to change plans mid-turn is sweet, and I don't think this is any exception.

I get that there are bad beats associated with this card (He failed to attack my 3 health opponent 4 turns in a row!!), but I love having cards like this in the game.  Having to make multiple decisions in a turn, instead of one big decision at the start of the turn, is really fun and dynamic.

(Ogre Ninja also seems absolutely insane in arena.  He's a 6/6 for 5 mana.. it hardly matters what he attacks, because he's bigger than everything else!)

[markusin]

I'm still not sure how to evaluate the Ogre Warmaul though.

3 mana 4/2 weapon for Warrior with the %50 chance of attacking the wrong enemy. I'm thinking Warrior doesn't need a weapon I'm between Fiery War Axe and Death's Bite.

Also, the first Warrior weapon that is not an axe. Well, it's at best a very blunt axe.

[KingZog3]

I think aggro Warrior might run it. It can go through taunts, and you'll be swinging a lot anyway to use more weapons.

[popsofctown]

That's if aggro Warrior is a thing though.  I'm not sure it is.

[popsofctown]

Gonna try some overly specific predictions for hopes of glory:

0 mana 0/2 mech, possibly with a name that parodies Ornithopter.
0 mana 1/1 charge "destroy at end of turn" minion, just because there ought to be one.
7 mana legendary that pumps out Annoyotrons Hogger-style.  3/5 I'd guess
3 mana 0/3 totem with "your mechs have windfury"
A legendary minion that destroys a mech and turns it into a weapon.
2 mana 1/2 mech with Battlecry: Copy the effect of target minion's deathrattle, then silence it.
A rocket powered turbo slug with mega charge that plays itself for free and attacks at random when you draw it.  2/1.
2 mana 4/3 with "can't attack unless you control a mech".  Might or might not be a mech.

[blueblimp]

That's if aggro Warrior is a thing though.  I'm not sure it is.

It's still ladder viable, at least: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2mf3iy/top_16_legend_eu_with_aggro_warrior/.

[popsofctown]

Psh, EU...

Jk, it's probably reasonable then

[KingZog3]

That's if aggro Warrior is a thing though.  I'm not sure it is.

It's still ladder viable, at least: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2mf3iy/top_16_legend_eu_with_aggro_warrior/.

I personally don't see much warrior aggro, but when I do it does not bad. I really do think the new cards will make it at least a bit stronger. It's just that zoo or hunter aggro is more obvious.

[markusin]

What I'd like to see is a card that receives a damage reduction bonus when attacking and when being attacked. Spells would be the most effective way to deal with them.

Ex)
3 mana 4/2 Common
Receives 1 less damage while attacking and defending

or

5 mana 5/4 Legendary
Receives 2 less damage while attacking and defending

These cards basically receive a health boost whenever they're attacked. They don't have much to do with goblins or gnomes though.

[pingpongsam]

That's if aggro Warrior is a thing though.  I'm not sure it is.

It's still ladder viable, at least: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2mf3iy/top_16_legend_eu_with_aggro_warrior/.

I personally don't see much warrior aggro, but when I do it does not bad. I really do think the new cards will make it at least a bit stronger. It's just that zoo or hunter aggro is more obvious.

My Warrior deck is aggro with no shield or draw gimmicks or expensive control minions and it does pretty well. I only play it for the Warrioir dailies and I tend to get all 5 in 7 or 8 games.

[popsofctown]

That might be cool, but I would be concerned about polarization from some classes having different spell options.  For example the 5/4 would be really solid against Druid but rather susceptible to Warlock and i think it'd be pretty awkward.  It's not even something where you can easily modify your deck specifically in anticipation of it, Druid, Warrior, and Paladin simply don't have something in their card pool that can do anything.

The 4/2 doesn't have as much of those issues and I think it'd be a really cool card.

[ashersky]

That's if aggro Warrior is a thing though.  I'm not sure it is.

It's still ladder viable, at least: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2mf3iy/top_16_legend_eu_with_aggro_warrior/.

I personally don't see much warrior aggro, but when I do it does not bad. I really do think the new cards will make it at least a bit stronger. It's just that zoo or hunter aggro is more obvious.

My Warrior deck is aggro with no shield or draw gimmicks or expensive control minions and it does pretty well. I only play it for the Warrioir dailies and I tend to get all 5 in 7 or 8 games.

My Warrior deck is aggro with Pirates.  It works for dailies, as well.

[markusin]

That might be cool, but I would be concerned about polarization from some classes having different spell options.  For example the 5/4 would be really solid against Druid but rather susceptible to Warlock and i think it'd be pretty awkward.  It's not even something where you can easily modify your deck specifically in anticipation of it, Druid, Warrior, and Paladin simply don't have something in their card pool that can do anything.

The 4/2 doesn't have as much of those issues and I think it'd be a really cool card.

Originally, the Legendary was a 5/5 for 5 mana with 1 damage reduction. That seemed boring and kinda awkward to destroy with spells with that 5 health. Overall, the idea doesn't seem fitting for a legendary.

I like the smaller 4/2 minion more now. Thematically, that can be an energy draining mech or something.

[markusin]

Another new card: Burly Rockjaw Trogg
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12233-burly-rockjaw-trogg

4 mana 3/5 Neutral
Whenever your opponent casts a spell, gain +2 attack.

Interesting. So if you play a chain of spells, you better have removal or silence on hand.

[pingpongsam]

I have yet to complete all of the Heroic Naxx quests. When GvG releases I wonder if Heroic quests will become considerably easier?

[markusin]

I have yet to complete all of the Heroic Naxx quests. When GvG releases I wonder if Heroic quests will become considerably easier?

I was thinking about that too. I completed the heroic quests on my main NA account, but not my arena practice EU account, which still needs more gold to open the last wing. The guy who draws every turn will be a lot easier to defeat with Goblin Sapper and Clockwork Giant. Hopefully some GvG cards help with the heroic bosses of the last 2 wings. That's where it gets brutal.

[Jorbles]

Another new card: Burly Rockjaw Trogg
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12233-burly-rockjaw-trogg

4 mana 3/5 Neutral
Whenever your opponent casts a spell, gain +2 attack.

Interesting. So if you play a chain of spells, you better have removal or silence on hand.

This does seem to have some interesting applications against Secrets and cards like Animal Companion. Probably pretty good against Hunter.

[KingZog3]

Another new card: Burly Rockjaw Trogg
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12233-burly-rockjaw-trogg

4 mana 3/5 Neutral
Whenever your opponent casts a spell, gain +2 attack.

Interesting. So if you play a chain of spells, you better have removal or silence on hand.

This does seem to have some interesting applications against Secrets and cards like Animal Companion. Probably pretty good against Hunter.

In practice it'll  never be much bigger than a yeti though. Most spells either will kill it, or classes that play tons of spells like rogue just sap it back. I don't except it to be very strong.

[markusin]

Another new card: Burly Rockjaw Trogg
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12233-burly-rockjaw-trogg

4 mana 3/5 Neutral
Whenever your opponent casts a spell, gain +2 attack.

Interesting. So if you play a chain of spells, you better have removal or silence on hand.

This does seem to have some interesting applications against Secrets and cards like Animal Companion. Probably pretty good against Hunter.

In practice it'll  never be much bigger than a yeti though. Most spells either will kill it, or classes that play tons of spells like rogue just sap it back. I don't except it to be very strong.

I think it's meant to keep spare parts in check.

[popsofctown]

If you innervate Rockjaw Trog against someone who hasn't used their coin yet that's pretty funny

[HiveMindEmulator]

Another new card: Burly Rockjaw Trogg
http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12233-burly-rockjaw-trogg

4 mana 3/5 Neutral
Whenever your opponent casts a spell, gain +2 attack.

Interesting. So if you play a chain of spells, you better have removal or silence on hand.

This does seem to have some interesting applications against Secrets and cards like Animal Companion. Probably pretty good against Hunter.

In practice it'll  never be much bigger than a yeti though. Most spells either will kill it, or classes that play tons of spells like rogue just sap it back. I don't except it to be very strong.

Yeah I don't see a reason to ever run this card in constructed. Increasing the attack doesn't really do much, especially if you can't do it yourself.

[blueblimp]

Might be more useful-sounding if it did something immediate, like say hit their face for 1 (or 2?) damage each time they cast a spell.

[Galzria]

Might be more useful-sounding if it did something immediate, like say hit their face for 1 (or 2?) damage each time they cast a spell.

Spin on Leper?

1 Mana
1/2
Deal one damage to your opponent each time they cast a spell.

[markusin]

Today's Twitter vote card reveal thing:

4 mana Epic Rogue Spell
Destroy a Random enemy Minion
Combo: And your opponent's weapon.

So a variant of Assassinate. I like it more than Assassinate. Usually, Rogue can set it up so that there is only 1 enemy minion left to destroy.

Edit: On an unrelated note, I appear to suffer from gratuituous capitalization syndrome.

[Awaclus]

That's cool. I like it that it has a Combo which isn't necessarily useful.

[KingZog3]

Blingtron is now OP.

[Jorbles]

That's cool. I like it that it has a Combo which isn't necessarily useful.

Yeah, that's actually really cool. I always feel bad leaving combos unused because they're all good, and I feel bad about leaving bonus damage/free minions/free buffs unused. But this one you only need to worry about activating situationally, so you can comfortably just cast it guilt free!

[Grujah]

Ogres can bypass taunt. Interesting.

[KingZog3]

3 new cards

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16893478?utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F

Not sure what to think of these either. The Hunter card looks nice for hunter Control decks, or even aggro decks that run deathrattles.

The other ones look like they can seriously punish deathrattle decks.

[Kirian]

3 new cards

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16893478?utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2F

Not sure what to think of these either. The Hunter card looks nice for hunter Control decks, or even aggro decks that run deathrattles.

The other ones look like they can seriously punish deathrattle decks.

That hunter card is so overpowered as to be ridiculous, especially at 2 mana.  That's like... immediately craft two epics sort of overpowered.

[Titandrake]

I don't like how the Hunter card is basically a better Reincarnate. Reincarnate has its own bag of tricks, but it's primarily for the deathrattle trigger, and invalidating it so recently feels wrong to me, especially given how unique Reincarnate was.

Power wise, I can see it being strong, but it's also in Hunter, which limits it more. My feeling is that aggro decks would rather have consistency, but they may run it to trigger Haunted Creeper. More midrange decks will like it a lot for Highmane/Belcher/whatever new card comes out. I think it'll make aggro Hunters weaker relatively to midrange Hunters, but Hunter is already pretty strong so idk if this is the right way to do it...

[pingpongsam]

My problem with Feign Death is that it is a class card. Something like this deserves to be universally accessible.

[ashersky]

My problem with Feign Death is that it is a class card. Something like this deserves to be universally accessible.

FD, and the Priest anti-death rattle card, make Eggs required in Hunter decks.  I'll need to make room for 4 2-drops...

[blueblimp]

At first glance, Feign Death seems totally bonkers. I mean, your usual Hunter runs: Webspinner, Leper Gnome, Mad Scientist, Haunted Creeper, Sludge Belcher, Savannah Highmane. Hitting a single Highmane gives you two 2/2s, hitting Scientist is a bit like having had a trap in hand instead, and any two of the others is mostly good value for a 2 mana card.

On the other hand, one of the strengths of low-curve decks like typical Hunters is to reliably play on curve. This card doesn't help you do that. It's also a bit win-more in that it does best in situations where you're already ahead. I could imagine it edging out Houndmaster for inclusion, since Feign Death can find a target more often.

Seems really weird to add a card that's a direct buff to the strongest deck in that game, in any case.

[markusin]

My problem with Feign Death is that it is a class card. Something like this deserves to be universally accessible.

FD, and the Priest anti-death rattle card, make Eggs required in Hunter decks.  I'll need to make room for 4 2-drops...

That's actually a Paladin card, not a Priest card.

[Awaclus]

I like the Paladin card. I'll have to somehow find room for it in my deck.

[ashersky]

My problem with Feign Death is that it is a class card. Something like this deserves to be universally accessible.

FD, and the Priest anti-death rattle card, make Eggs required in Hunter decks.  I'll need to make room for 4 2-drops...

That's actually a Paladin card, not a Priest card.

Oh, right.

Actually, it's no worse than Consecrate, I guess.

[popsofctown]

Well, the new set's theme is Mechs, and mechs aren't beasts, so it's kinda rough for Hunter so there may be a need to compensate for that. 

[markusin]

Well, the new set's theme is Mechs, and mechs aren't beasts, so it's kinda rough for Hunter so there may be a need to compensate for that.

Plus, like, they need to keep up in the arms race against Lil Exorcist.

[markusin]

New Hunter card: Steamwheedle Sniper

2 Mana 2/3 epic
Your Hero Power can target minions.

It's temporary shadowform! Probably doesn't fit into the current aggro hunter too well, but opens up other Hunter archetypes. They're really pushing that control Hunter.

[blueblimp]

Looks like a fun card. Good for arena and doesn't help standard constructed Hunters. I like this kind of 2-drop where it can work on turn 2 or later in a more complex play, like Pyromancer.

[KingZog3]

I wonder what happens if you MC tech this to another hero. Can warrior then give armor to minions? And Druids give 1 attack and 1 armor to a minion?

[Galzria]

I wonder what happens if you MC tech this to another hero. Can warrior then give armor to minions? And Druids give 1 attack and 1 armor to a minion?

Should work...

[KingZog3]

I wonder what happens if you MC tech this to another hero. Can warrior then give armor to minions? And Druids give 1 attack and 1 armor to a minion?

Should work...

And I saw comment that it'll be cool if Warlock can grab this. Deal 2 damage to a minion and draw a card.

[markusin]

I wonder what happens if you MC tech this to another hero. Can warrior then give armor to minions? And Druids give 1 attack and 1 armor to a minion?

Should work...

And I saw comment that it'll be cool if Warlock can grab this. Deal 2 damage to a minion and draw a card.

Or does the minion draw a card. Wooooh. Mind = blown.

[KingZog3]

I wonder what happens if you MC tech this to another hero. Can warrior then give armor to minions? And Druids give 1 attack and 1 armor to a minion?

Should work...

And I saw comment that it'll be cool if Warlock can grab this. Deal 2 damage to a minion and draw a card.

Or does the minion draw a card. Wooooh. Mind = blown.

So it can play the card? So there will be sub mana for each minion now? Are they controlled by the AI?

[markusin]

I wonder what happens if you MC tech this to another hero. Can warrior then give armor to minions? And Druids give 1 attack and 1 armor to a minion?

Should work...

And I saw comment that it'll be cool if Warlock can grab this. Deal 2 damage to a minion and draw a card.

Or does the minion draw a card. Wooooh. Mind = blown.

So it can play the card? So there will be sub mana for each minion now? Are they controlled by the AI?

Maybe they should have said "your Steady Shot Hero Power".

[markusin]

Druid gets Druid of the Fang, a 4/4 for 5 mana that transforms into a 7/7 if you have a beast.

4 words:
Combos with Gnomish Experimenter.

(Chicken is 0 mana)

Also for some fun fan speculation, I hope they make a card that give a bonus to cards with no card text (including silenced minions). Something like a battlecry that gives vanilla minions +1/+1. It's unlikely, but I'll kick myself if they release such a card and I can't yell "called it!"

[KingZog3]

Druid gets Druid of the Fang, a 4/4 for 5 mana that transforms into a 7/7 if you have a beast.

4 words:
Combos with Gnomish Experimenter.

(Chicken is 0 mana)

Also for some fun fan speculation, I hope they make a card that give a bonus to cards with no card text (including silenced minions). Something like a battlecry that gives vanilla minions +1/+1. It's unlikely, but I'll kick myself if they release such a card and I can't yell "called it!"

Chicken was confirm as 1 mana I'm pretty sure.

[popsofctown]

Sniper is much better than shadowform for the same reasons auchenai soulpriest is better than shadowform. 

[popsofctown]

I sketched out a few deck ideas building around the new cards.

1st one is a deck that controls for a while, then plays a bunch of cards all at once to Feign death.  It's kind of like the old-school 1 mana UTH deck which was really effective at controlling because explosive trap is so much better if you don't play dudes.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124106-megafeign

This deck builds around the stealthed sensei interaction Jorbles (?) mentioned.  Nat Pagle is in as an alternate permastealth target, though I figured Hogger was too pricey.  If you can stealth an Iron Sensei every mech for the rest of the game will get +2/+2 when you play it after getting your board cleared by enemy minions so eventually your minions should start sticking, theoretically, maybe.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124107-hidden-sensei

[popsofctown]

This is what Ancestor's Call would look like, sadly it's probably terrible but I really want decks that involve Ysera to be good.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124108-d

if you built around Ancestor's Call that's what I figured it'd look like.  Ancestral spirit into reincarnate is a 4 mana faceless for a cheap thing you've cheated out.

[KingZog3]

This is what Ancestor's Call would look like, sadly it's probably terrible but I really want decks that involve Ysera to be good.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124108-d

if you built around Ancestor's Call that's what I figured it'd look like.  Ancestral spirit into reincarnate is a 4 mana faceless for a cheap thing you've cheated out.

Crackle?  Is that another new card?

[popsofctown]

You can mouseover new cards to read them. 

Hearthpwn seems to be a day ahead of you guys sometimes.

[KingZog3]

You can mouseover new cards to read them. 

Hearthpwn seems to be a day ahead of you guys sometimes.

I know I can mouse over them. I just hadn't seen it before and I've been checking daily for new cards. Just haven't been looking at Hearthpwn.

[KingZog3]

The only other card I hadn't seen was Felheart(?). Warlock spell. 5 mana, deal 5 damage to a minion, if it's  a friendly minion give it +5/+5.

Doesn't seem that great. Although that's a pretty good buff. Maybe a demon deck could work a little better with this? It is better than the 2 mana variant already in the game.

[popsofctown]

Only if it's a friendly Demon.  Zog what's with you and ignoring creature types?

But yeah it's not that exciting to me.  I think Mech zoo or deathrattle zoo will be better

[markusin]

Druid gets Druid of the Fang, a 4/4 for 5 mana that transforms into a 7/7 if you have a beast.

4 words:
Combos with Gnomish Experimenter.

(Chicken is 0 mana)

Also for some fun fan speculation, I hope they make a card that give a bonus to cards with no card text (including silenced minions). Something like a battlecry that gives vanilla minions +1/+1. It's unlikely, but I'll kick myself if they release such a card and I can't yell "called it!"

Chicken was confirm as 1 mana I'm pretty sure.

Aww. Haven't seen full confirmation, but it's been mentioned so someone probably saw it as such during Blizzcon.

I'll try to sketch out that priest deck I'd want to build on Hearthpwn. Coming up.

[popsofctown]

So the last Ancestor's call deck i posted, I didn't know about crackle till I saw it while i was transferring what I had written on paper to the computer and was like "oh ok".

Now I realize that crackle enables an OTK (well, there was an OTK without crackle, but crackle gives you enough face burn in deck to play Lightning Bolts early without jeopardizing your OTK too much which is important).

Shaman will now have the strongest OTK that I know of, doing up to 36-39 damage from hand.
I think you definitely want to build something a lot more like this:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124340-miracle-shaman

And some form of this deck could very well be a defining feature of the meta I think. 

[popsofctown]

Question: How do Reincarnate, Ancestral Spirit, Feign Death, and Poison Seeds interact with Explosive Sheep?  Only Feign works, right?

Does Recombobulator and Piloted Shredder grab class minions or noncollectible minions?
Does Blingtron get any noncollectible weapons?

[KingZog3]

Question: How do Reincarnate, Ancestral Spirit, Feign Death, and Poison Seeds interact with Explosive Sheep?  Only Feign works, right?

Does Recombobulator and Piloted Shredder grab class minions or noncollectible minions?
Does Blingtron get any noncollectible weapons?

I assume shredders only get collectible minions. Getting Voltron is way too crazy. Same with Recombobulator.

Reincarnate would trigger the sheep and then come back to life, giving a 2dmg AoE. Same with Ancestral Spirit, it'll die, do the AoE and then reappear. Feing Death will just do an AoE. Poison seeds won't work in the same way it doesn't work with Abomination.

[popsofctown]

You seemed ambiguous on whether the Sheep dies again with reincarnate.

[KingZog3]

You seemed ambiguous on whether the Sheep dies again with reincarnate.

No it wouldn't. When you reincarnate the minion dies, then the deathrattle happens, then it respawns. I play a lot of Reincarnate Shaman and the minion always spawns after the deathrattle. You reincarnate Sylvannas, a minion gets stolen, then you get Sylvannas back only if there's a spot on your board. So Sheep would die, AoE, then you get it back.

[markusin]

Yeah so here's some fun decks I'd want to try out for GvG;

Upgraded Repair Bot inspired Priest feat. Inner Fire:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124474-inner-fire-mech

And a Mech Mage deck of sorts:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124478-mech-mage

[KingZog3]

Yeah so here's some fun decks I'd want to try out for GvG;

Upgraded Repair Bot inspired Priest feat. Inner Fire:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124474-inner-fire-mech

And a Mech Mage deck of sorts:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124478-mech-mage

There doesn't seem to be enough health buffs to justify Inner fire in this deck. Also, even if oyu're making a gimmicky Priest deck I'd never run less than 2 SW:D. There are so few games where they are dead. I know many people run only 1 but I never liked not having 2.

Also Toshley is a fun new card, but I can't imagine it being better than Cairne or Sylvannas.

[popsofctown]

Toshley > Sylvanas only if Gadgetzan's in your deck.

[popsofctown]

edit: okay, or antonidas!!!

[markusin]

Yeah so here's some fun decks I'd want to try out for GvG;

Upgraded Repair Bot inspired Priest feat. Inner Fire:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124474-inner-fire-mech

And a Mech Mage deck of sorts:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/124478-mech-mage

There doesn't seem to be enough health buffs to justify Inner fire in this deck. Also, even if oyu're making a gimmicky Priest deck I'd never run less than 2 SW:D. There are so few games where they are dead. I know many people run only 1 but I never liked not having 2.

Also Toshley is a fun new card, but I can't imagine it being better than Cairne or Sylvannas.

I was surprised by how limiting the max-30 card deck was for the priest deck. In order to make the priest deck work, I need to really rework that deck to get it out of my comfort zone. Given the limited space, I'm not sold on the Shrinkmeisters. If I removed them, I could easily swap a SW:pain for a SW:Death. I like how Rivendare is potentially a good target for Inner Fire. The real problem I see with the deck right now is the lack of real threats.

About the mage deck, what I really want to see is how good the spare parts can be. You're really living the dream if you have Sorceror's apprentice on the board when you plop Antonidas.

[KingZog3]

Yeah, that's the main problem with Inner Fire. You're working to make big threats when you could just play them in single cards. I think Shrinkmeister will be a must have in a lot of decks. Or at least Priest decks that are not Mech oriented. If you're going Mech oriented perhaps you leave them out for things like Mech Warper and repair bot.

[popsofctown]

I don't think Priest will have a top tier Mech deck which probably leaves upgraded repair bot homeless.  You have to establish lots of board presence.  If someone wipes your whole board except for your Dark Cultist, Upgraded Repair Bot doesn't help you.  Other classes can get so much massive board presence that they can guarantee DoA always has targets and Houndmaster always has targets but priest usually doesn't, they're good at deliberately losing board presence to Auchenai Circle or Nova.

Blizz's push for midrange priest just isn't enough, you're still going to want to play that class as control.

[popsofctown]

The Mage deck looks better, but I don't think Bomb Lobber is a constructed card.

[markusin]

The Mage deck looks better, but I don't think Bomb Lobber is a constructed card.

The bomb lobber is like a cheaper Argent Commander. Unfortunately Sludge Belcher is super popular in constructed, so the bomb lobber is still not doing enough there. Maybe Azure drake works better there?

I have high hopes for Blast Mage though. And 5 attack is what you need against belchers.

[KingZog3]

The Mage deck looks better, but I don't think Bomb Lobber is a constructed card.

It'll only be in constructed if Miracle is really big. But I don't think it will be. It's already not popular.

[popsofctown]

The Mage deck looks better, but I don't think Bomb Lobber is a constructed card.

The bomb lobber is like a cheaper Argent Commander. Unfortunately Sludge Belcher is super popular in constructed, so the bomb lobber is still not doing enough there. Maybe Azure drake works better there?

I have high hopes for Blast Mage though. And 5 attack is what you need against belchers.

I think the random targetting is a big deal.  But as you and zog kind of point out if you have a card like this that does an oddly specific amount of damage, you need to have a specific target in mind for it.  Argent Commander's prey used to be Azure Drake, but that's not the meta anymore.

[EgorK]

So there is that big maintanance on Tuesday, and also last time Bliz dumped about half cards day before release, and we are through about half cards of expansion atm. On the other hand, releasing G&G same week raids will be opened in WoW is a little bit strange

[popsofctown]

I thought Naxx was fully spoiled by release time?

[markusin]

I thought Naxx was fully spoiled by release time?

It was, yes

The Mage deck looks better, but I don't think Bomb Lobber is a constructed card.

The bomb lobber is like a cheaper Argent Commander. Unfortunately Sludge Belcher is super popular in constructed, so the bomb lobber is still not doing enough there. Maybe Azure drake works better there?

I have high hopes for Blast Mage though. And 5 attack is what you need against belchers.

I think the random targetting is a big deal.  But as you and zog kind of point out if you have a card like this that does an oddly specific amount of damage, you need to have a specific target in mind for it.  Argent Commander's prey used to be Azure Drake, but that's not the meta anymore.

Probably Loatheb should go in the 5 mana slot.

[EgorK]

I thought Naxx was fully spoiled by release time?

Yes, but half of cards were spoiled day before release

[popsofctown]

I thought Naxx was fully spoiled by release time?

Yes, but half of cards were spoiled day before release

I get it now.

Observation: running Gahzrilla instead of Dr. Boom in hunter can't pay off until turn 9 which is kinda when people should be dead already

[ycz6]

Vote reveal: Bolvar Fordragon

http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/12244-bolvar-fordragon



Paladin Legendary
5 Mana, 1/7
Whenever a friendly minion dies while this in your hand, gain +1 Attack.

[markusin]

Well, that's pretty unique. We've never seen a minion who's actual stats change permanently while it's in your hand. Edwin's boost does not persist across turns. So yeah another reason to use Muster for Battle.

Pretty steep requirement to have it in hand though. It's a dead card until turn 4-5. If you draw it around turn 4 or 5, you'd want to wait a little bit before playing it to boost it's attack, but at turns 7-8 it's less special.

[KingZog3]

So it changes in your hand? This is really strange, and it almost feels like another type of Giant.

[Kirian]

Hooray for uniqueness!

Also hooray for Bolvar, who showed himself to be a much greater hero than Tirion.

[Jorbles]

Hooray for uniqueness!

Also hooray for Bolvar, who showed himself to be a much greater hero than Tirion.

A 5 cost card that you might not want to insta mulligan! That's exciting!

[markusin]

Hooray for uniqueness!

Also hooray for Bolvar, who showed himself to be a much greater hero than Tirion.

A 5 cost card that you might not want to insta mulligan! That's exciting!

Keeping it in your hand is good if you're confident that the rest of your cards will allow you to play stuff on curve. So, a boost to aggro-dins for sure. I wonder if such a deck will want more cheap draw cards than usual, like Loot Hoarder. You know, to help draw Bolvar early.

[blueblimp]

That card is very cool. It toys with mulligan strategy in a big way, because there's a reason to have this card in your hand apart from wanting to play it, which is different than every other card in the game. It's also a card that can only be done on a computer, yet isn't gimmicky at all, and that's exciting.

As far as strength goes, it's hard to say. At 5 mana and with no immediate board impact, it's slow in a class that already suffers from speed issues. For straight value, you're okay if this comes out as at least 4/7 (3 minions died). At 6/7 (5 minions died), it's a Boulderfist Ogre for a 1 mana discount, which is nice but maybe still not so exciting in constructed, where Ogre is not played except in budget decks. The best use in constructed might be a deck designed to pump this up to huge values as a potential win condition. I can't imagine that working very often though, since BGH and silence both handle it nicely.

[markusin]

That card is very cool. It toys with mulligan strategy in a big way, because there's a reason to have this card in your hand apart from wanting to play it, which is different than every other card in the game. It's also a card that can only be done on a computer, yet isn't gimmicky at all, and that's exciting.

As far as strength goes, it's hard to say. At 5 mana and with no immediate board impact, it's slow in a class that already suffers from speed issues. For straight value, you're okay if this comes out as at least 4/7 (3 minions died). At 6/7 (5 minions died), it's a Boulderfist Ogre for a 1 mana discount, which is nice but maybe still not so exciting in constructed, where Ogre is not played except in budget decks. The best use in constructed might be a deck designed to pump this up to huge values as a potential win condition. I can't imagine that working very often though, since BGH and silence both handle it nicely.

Yeah it's kind of a tough sell. On the one hand silencing this minion is one less silence they can use on big threats like Tirion, but I don't see these 2 legendaries meshing well in the same deck. However, going for a rush deck with this puts pressure on the other player to react against smaller minions, and so the additional pressure exerted by this card could be tough to deal with if it comes out on turn 5-6.

I'm also wondering if there are good ways for Paladin to mitigate the damage done by having Bolvar silenced and being left with a 1/7. I'm not coming up with much.

[Awaclus]

The thing with Paladin aggro decks is that they don't want to have expensive cards stuck in their hands because that means they're getting less cards with Divine Favor. I don't think this is going to see much Constructed play at all.

[Kirian]

Something we're forgetting is that a Pally with this wants to play multiple minions per card when possible.  So, two Harvest Golems and two Oozes (2 minions), two Haunted Creepers (3 minions! [not 3! minions though]), the new spell was mentioned above that gives 3 minions... anything I'm forgetting?

[markusin]

Something we're forgetting is that a Pally with this wants to play multiple minions per card when possible.  So, two Harvest Golems and two Oozes (2 minions), two Haunted Creepers (3 minions! [not 3! minions though]), the new spell was mentioned above that gives 3 minions... anything I'm forgetting?

I know they're weak, but Redemption and Noble Sacrifice pulled out from Mad Scientist.

[popsofctown]

I am always quick to say that a 2 drop that doesn't help you curve out is suspect, because that's part of a 2 drop's job (e.g. why Owl isn't as good as Spellbreaker).  A 5 drop that doesn't help you during topdeck mode has similar issues.

[markusin]

I am always quick to say that a 2 drop that doesn't help you curve out is suspect, because that's part of a 2 drop's job (e.g. why Owl isn't as good as Spellbreaker).  A 5 drop that doesn't help you during topdeck mode has similar issues.

It's a shame Paladin's Divine Favor works best with small minions. Borval is even less friendly to Jeeves. I'm still intrigued with the cards they've released for Paladin so far, this one included. At the very least, there is exploring and experimentation to be had.

[popsofctown]

I can't even enjoy the innovative mechanic because I'm still peeved by the grammatical incorrectness of cards like this and Gurubashi Beserker

[markusin]

I can't even enjoy the innovative mechanic because I'm still peeved by the grammatical incorrectness of cards like this and Gurubashi Beserker

Not to mention Jeeves which blatantly lies about its effect. If they wanted to prevent infinite draw loops with the card or instant fatigue kill, they should have worked harder on the wording.

Maybe Donald. X has raised our standards about wording too high.

[KingZog3]

I can't even enjoy the innovative mechanic because I'm still peeved by the grammatical incorrectness of cards like this and Gurubashi Beserker

Not to mention Jeeves which blatantly lies about its effect. If they wanted to prevent infinite draw loops with the card or instant fatigue kill, they should have worked harder on the wording.

Maybe Donald. X has raised our standards about wording too high.

Honestly I don't have a huge issue with it. I mean, the other option is "Draw the number of cards that would put you at 3 cards in hand." Or something like that. It just it's as simple to read. Sure there is the case of when your deck is empty. But for a game like hearthstone that wants to appeal to everyone, I don't think picky wording is a big issue for them.

Then again, they did have to reword the Naxx cards because the ommited the "random" part of certain cards. So they do over simplify wordings.

[popsofctown]

I can't even enjoy the innovative mechanic because I'm still peeved by the grammatical incorrectness of cards like this and Gurubashi Beserker

Not to mention Jeeves which blatantly lies about its effect. If they wanted to prevent infinite draw loops with the card or instant fatigue kill, they should have worked harder on the wording.

Maybe Donald. X has raised our standards about wording too high.

Honestly I don't have a huge issue with it. I mean, the other option is "Draw the number of cards that would put you at 3 cards in hand." Or something like that. It just it's as simple to read. Sure there is the case of when your deck is empty. But for a game like hearthstone that wants to appeal to everyone, I don't think picky wording is a big issue for them.

Then again, they did have to reword the Naxx cards because the ommited the "random" part of certain cards. So they do over simplify wordings.

That's not the only other option.  They can just make the card functionality match the effect and make it infinitely loop, since the interaction won't come up that much.  And casual players experience deckout games the least.

[Awaclus]

I can't even enjoy the innovative mechanic because I'm still peeved by the grammatical incorrectness of cards like this and Gurubashi Beserker

Not to mention Jeeves which blatantly lies about its effect. If they wanted to prevent infinite draw loops with the card or instant fatigue kill, they should have worked harder on the wording.

Maybe Donald. X has raised our standards about wording too high.

Honestly I don't have a huge issue with it. I mean, the other option is "Draw the number of cards that would put you at 3 cards in hand." Or something like that. It just it's as simple to read. Sure there is the case of when your deck is empty. But for a game like hearthstone that wants to appeal to everyone, I don't think picky wording is a big issue for them.

Then again, they did have to reword the Naxx cards because the ommited the "random" part of certain cards. So they do over simplify wordings.

That's not the only other option.  They can just make the card functionality match the effect and make it infinitely loop, since the interaction won't come up that much.  And casual players experience deckout games the least.

What would happen if it looped infinitely? A tie?

[KingZog3]

I can't even enjoy the innovative mechanic because I'm still peeved by the grammatical incorrectness of cards like this and Gurubashi Beserker

Not to mention Jeeves which blatantly lies about its effect. If they wanted to prevent infinite draw loops with the card or instant fatigue kill, they should have worked harder on the wording.

Maybe Donald. X has raised our standards about wording too high.

Honestly I don't have a huge issue with it. I mean, the other option is "Draw the number of cards that would put you at 3 cards in hand." Or something like that. It just it's as simple to read. Sure there is the case of when your deck is empty. But for a game like hearthstone that wants to appeal to everyone, I don't think picky wording is a big issue for them.

Then again, they did have to reword the Naxx cards because the ommited the "random" part of certain cards. So they do over simplify wordings.

That's not the only other option.  They can just make the card functionality match the effect and make it infinitely loop, since the interaction won't come up that much.  And casual players experience deckout games the least.

What would happen if it looped infinitely? A tie?

First person to try to draw with no cards dies. You don't draw cards at the same time as each other.

[Awaclus]

I can't even enjoy the innovative mechanic because I'm still peeved by the grammatical incorrectness of cards like this and Gurubashi Beserker

Not to mention Jeeves which blatantly lies about its effect. If they wanted to prevent infinite draw loops with the card or instant fatigue kill, they should have worked harder on the wording.

Maybe Donald. X has raised our standards about wording too high.

Honestly I don't have a huge issue with it. I mean, the other option is "Draw the number of cards that would put you at 3 cards in hand." Or something like that. It just it's as simple to read. Sure there is the case of when your deck is empty. But for a game like hearthstone that wants to appeal to everyone, I don't think picky wording is a big issue for them.

Then again, they did have to reword the Naxx cards because the ommited the "random" part of certain cards. So they do over simplify wordings.

That's not the only other option.  They can just make the card functionality match the effect and make it infinitely loop, since the interaction won't come up that much.  And casual players experience deckout games the least.

What would happen if it looped infinitely? A tie?

First person to try to draw with no cards dies. You don't draw cards at the same time as each other.

Can you die while the effect hasn't finished resolving?

[HiveMindEmulator]

^I don't think so. That's something they would have to change to make things work "as worded".

[KingZog3]

Yeah, checking for death happens after cards resolve. And I don't actually think it would be a good effect to have on the card. Instant death is not fun, and there is not much you can do about this if you get into fatigue. You wouldn't really get much chance to remove it. The wording isn't the best, but it's clear enough that I don't think it needs changing, not like Webspinner needed changing.

[Awaclus]

They can't all be the best wording ever.

[KingZog3]

They can't all be the best wording ever.

Yes they can if they're all equally terrible.

[Awaclus]

They can't all be the best wording ever.

Yes they can if they're all equally terrible.

War Golem has a good wording.

[blueblimp]

And I don't actually think it would be a good effect to have on the card.

I totally disagree here actually. It would hardly ever matter, because to die this way, you'd need no more than 2 cards remaining in your hand and deck combined. This does happen in control match-ups somewhat often, but control decks would absolutely not run Jeeves. So we're talking about a very rare scenario.

And the upside is great player stories when it does happen. Imagine the reddit posts and youtubes from when the insta-death does occur. It's exactly what the designers want.

(Also, I disagree that you wouldn't get much chance to remove it. It doesn't draw until the _end_ of turn, so if you really can't remove a 1/4 from the board given one turn to do so, then Jeeves is certainly not the only card that would guarantee your loss at that point.)

[popsofctown]

The best thing about Bolvar Fordragon might be that it doesn't gain attack while in play.  You can deliberately make him 6/7 against druid, 4/7 against Priest, and even 1/7 to facecheck a misdirection

[HiveMindEmulator]

I think the bigger problem with checking for hero death mid-card is that it's inconsistent with the timing for checking minion death. So if I am at 1HP with an empty deck, and you're at 2HP and I Shiv my Leper Gnome, I die before you?

[KingZog3]

They just released a huge amount of cards on their facebook page. I assume they're also on hearthpwn. One takes control of an enemy secret, another Stoneskin Gargoyle a la mech variation, Legendary that Battecry: destroys an enemy Beast. Lots of cool stuff

[popsofctown]

I think the bigger problem with checking for hero death mid-card is that it's inconsistent with the timing for checking minion death. So if I am at 1HP with an empty deck, and you're at 2HP and I Shiv my Leper Gnome, I die before you?

Checking for hero death midcard results in fewer draws than checking for hero death between card plays.  I think shivving your own Leper Gnome is a draw with the current system.  Draws are something you want to avoid, they're rarely satisfying and they make tournaments more of a pain.  I don't think viewers dig them either.


But alternatively we could decide the heroes and minions should both die between card plays, but add a card after Fatigue 21 that says "You lose, right now!"

[blueblimp]

All the new cards: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/718-gvg-card-reveal-36-new-cards-upcoming-balance. Plus huge balance changes. Soulfire gets a nerf, Auctioneer gets a nerf (RIP Miracle Rogue), Flare gets a nerf (hooray, but I'd prefer a bigger nerf).

[popsofctown]

HOLY SHIT FINALLY NERFING SOULFIRE OH MY GOSH NOTHING COULD MAKE ME HAPPIER

[Jorbles]

They just released a huge amount of cards on their facebook page. I assume they're also on hearthpwn. One takes control of an enemy secret, another Stoneskin Gargoyle a la mech variation, Legendary that Battecry: destroys an enemy Beast. Lots of cool stuff

Hearthpwn link: http://www.hearthpwn.com/ (just scroll down)

Tons of new cards here.

Tree of Life seems like it could see decks built around it. It basically resets everyone's life total. Kindof an anti aggro card, but it costs 9 mana and your turn. Really interesting though.

Hobgoblin seems like it could be good in a Weenie or Token deck (3 mana, 2/3 +2/+2 for every minion you summon with 1 attack).

Kezan Mystic seems like a really cool anti-secret card (4 mana 4/3 steal a secret).

Wee Spellstopper seems like it might potentially make viable all those big minions that do nothing the turn the come out (4 mana 2/5 prevent adjacent minions from being targeted), but it costs so much that maybe not.
One Eyed Cheat seems like a poor attempt at making Pirates a viable tribe (2 mana, 4/1, rogue card, pirate that gains stealth whenever you summon a pirate).
Shadowboxer looks strong, like a Knife Juggler just for priests.
Floating watcher looks cool. 5 mana 4/4 Warlock card that gets +2/+2 every time you take damage. Tap to victory! A little slow, but potentially something that could make a different sort of Warlock deck viable.
Cogmaster's Wrench seems crucial to every Mech deck that can run it. (Is that a Paladin card? I'm not sure). 3 mana 1 attack weapon that has +2 attack when you control a mech.
Grove Tender seems strong in Druid Ramp decks (3 mana druid card, 2/4 choose one: each player draws a card or each player gains a mana crystal.)
Crush seems like a strong change to Warrior. New removal spells are always big. 7 mana, destroy a minion if you have a damaged minion it costs 3 mana.

ALSO 3 balance changes were announced:
Soulfire now costs 1. FUCK YOU ZOO. (probably still worth playing.)
Gadgetzan now costs 6. FUCK YOU MIRACLE. (This seems like a huge nerf to miracle.)
Flare now costs 2. FUCK YOU HUNTER. (I think Hunter will still be strong, but running Flare will be a harder choice now.)

[Jorbles]

Also! I have 3 Flares! I'll get a free Rare! Hooray!

[blueblimp]

I'm really sad that they chose to add another hard counter to secrets (Kezan Mystic). Flare is bad enough. Secrets are pretty weak already and really don't need a nerf.

I find secrets to be one of the most fun mechanics in the game. They're fun to play and fun to play around. My hope is that Mystic doesn't get played (since against most classes it's a 4/3 for 4 mana, pretty awful).

[markusin]

That Troggzor the Earthinator looks interesting. Also a vanilla Murloc that has proper stats, 2 mana 2/3.

[Galzria]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

[popsofctown]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

they're adding to the fb page faster than hearthpwn keeps up

[KingZog3]

Yeah, I doubt mystic will see much play. The meta needs to have tons of Secrets for it to be worth it. If Hunter stays big it'll see play, or if Freeze mage or Mage secret decks get better. But somehow I doubt it'll be that good.

[Galzria]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

they're adding to the fb page faster than hearthpwn keeps up

Is there a change to it on fb that makes it less terrible?

[popsofctown]

sorry i quoted your post planning to comment on it but decided not to, i was unrelated

[Jorbles]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

I think this card could see play. The drawback isn't likely to matter in the type of aggro deck it appears in. The type of deck this will appear in will probably lose if it goes past turn 7 or 8 anyways. So the fact that you might be out of cards when you lose isn't really an issue. That's a huge card for a 5 drop.

[popsofctown]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

I think this card could see play. The drawback isn't likely to matter in the type of aggro deck it appears in. The type of deck this will appear in will probably lose if it goes past turn 7 or 8 anyways. So the fact that you might be out of cards when you lose isn't really an issue. That's a huge card for a 5 drop.

It seems worse at what Venture Co Mercenary does to me.

[blueblimp]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

they're adding to the fb page faster than hearthpwn keeps up

Thanks, I didn't realize we hadn't seen all of them yet. A lot of the new cards have some pretty crazy stuff going on.

[Galzria]

sorry i quoted your post planning to comment on it but decided not to, i was unrelated

Ah, now I'm less confused.

Also unrelated, Hob Goblin in a Paladin Token Deck seems like it might do well. Combo's with the new Legendary in that lots of creatures can get played, bumping up his attack, and more, those creatures won't necessarily be terrible drops.

[KingZog3]

Paladin card giving all Silver hand recruits +2/+2 seems badass.

[Galzria]

sorry i quoted your post planning to comment on it but decided not to, i was unrelated

Ah, now I'm less confused.

Also unrelated, Hob Goblin in a Paladin Token Deck seems like it might do well. Combo's with the new Legendary in that lots of creatures can get played, bumping up his attack, and more, those creatures won't necessarily be terrible drops.

You still need lots of cheap draw though.

[blueblimp]

Dat Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Ice Block Ice Barrier turn. Not bad.

[popsofctown]

Silver hand recruits are summoned, not played, so Hobgoblin isn't really their friend.

Giving all Silver hand recruits +2/+2 is not good.  You don't design decks around hero power spam if it's not life tap because cards are better (otherwise Novice Engineer would be good)

Echoes of Medhev looks really scary with the Mechwarper Mage deck I am interested in. 

[Jorbles]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

I think this card could see play. The drawback isn't likely to matter in the type of aggro deck it appears in. The type of deck this will appear in will probably lose if it goes past turn 7 or 8 anyways. So the fact that you might be out of cards when you lose isn't really an issue. That's a huge card for a 5 drop.

It seems worse at what Venture Co Mercenary does to me.

I dunno, if someone tries to mill you with it they have to leave an 8/8 minion on the board. Plus you could silence it. Put this dude in a Watcher deck.

[Jorbles]

Mogor looks hilarious.

[popsofctown]

Dat Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Ice Block Ice Barrier turn. Not bad.

Best 14 mana ever spent?

[Jorbles]

Gazlowe seems really strong in Spare Parts decks.

[Galzria]

Silver hand recruits are summoned, not played, so Hobgoblin isn't really their friend.

Giving all Silver hand recruits +2/+2 is not good.  You don't design decks around hero power spam if it's not life tap because cards are better (otherwise Novice Engineer would be good)

Echoes of Medhev looks really scary with the Mechwarper Mage deck I am interested in.

Cards generally are better, because for the most part, Hero Powers aren't designed to be on curve.

However at 3/3 for 2, and "spammable" it would certainly be a little more worthwhile. Especially because it would reduce the amount of draw that's needed to be effective.

However, it's moot if they're summoned, and it's not the same as played.

[popsofctown]

Gazlowe seems really strong in Spare Parts decks.

Gazlowe is take Auctioneer, give it 2 health, take away the ability to draw off 0 mana spells and 2 mana spells and replace draws from the deck you carefully designed and contains more spells with random mech draws.

I'm not buying the 2 health.

[blueblimp]

Dat Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Ice Block Ice Barrier turn. Not bad.

Best 14 mana ever spent?

Fixed it before you quoted. The double-Echo dream I suppose is Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Frostbolt-your-Mad-Scientist-for-Ice-Block Molten. (Or just have Ice Block up already.)

[popsofctown]

I hate that Hobgoblin has such horrible art because it looks like a powerful card that's gonna be really relevant.  Also, best wisp enabler seen so far. 

[Jorbles]

Dat Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Ice Block Ice Barrier turn. Not bad.

Best 14 mana ever spent?

Fixed it before you quoted. The double-Echo dream I suppose is Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Echo Molten Molten Frostbolt-your-Mad-Scientist-for-Ice-Block Molten. (Or just have Ice Block up already.)

I just assumed his opponent had played Millhouse the turn before

[popsofctown]

Warsong-Hobgoblin-dragonhawk-dragonhawk-wisp-wisp-archer-archer is 28 damage.

No, that won't really be a thing

[Jorbles]

Apparently if you Thoughtsteal Tree of Life and play it with Auchenai on the board everyone dies. Not sure if that means there will now be the possibility of draws or if someone dies before the other by some mechanic. Edit: Actually there was already the possibility of draws. What am I thinking? Hellfire, etc.

[popsofctown]

Silver hand recruits are summoned, not played, so Hobgoblin isn't really their friend.

Giving all Silver hand recruits +2/+2 is not good.  You don't design decks around hero power spam if it's not life tap because cards are better (otherwise Novice Engineer would be good)

Echoes of Medhev looks really scary with the Mechwarper Mage deck I am interested in.

Cards generally are better, because for the most part, Hero Powers aren't designed to be on curve.

However at 3/3 for 2, and "spammable" it would certainly be a little more worthwhile. Especially because it would reduce the amount of draw that's needed to be effective.

However, it's moot if they're summoned, and it's not the same as played.

Again I am being confusing with my post
If Hobgoblin worked with silver hand recruits that would indeed be a good strategy if it was allowed because Hobgoblin is not super below curve and he does crap other than improving your silver hand recruits.

The card Jorbles Kingzog liked, which only buffs Silver Hand Recruits by +2/+2 is much further below curve, that's what I was bashing.

[Jorbles]

It also only buffs Silverhand Recruits when summoned, so if you don't play it with Muster it's unlikely to have a lot to buff.

[Awaclus]

Hobgoblin works if your Recruits get bounced. Building a strategy around this: super good.

[popsofctown]

Tree of Life is making me want to play Gadgetzan druid in spite of the nerf.  It might be better to just to use the new legendaries as the ramp target instead of Gadgetzan's barrel of stuff.

I'll probably play some kind of strong straightforward aggro strategy earlier on though.  Mechwarper-Replicate-Echo deck seems strong and fun

[popsofctown]

It also only buffs Silverhand Recruits when summoned, so if you don't play it with Muster it's unlikely to have a lot to buff.

Yeah.  It's a Silverhand Knight that requires you to do work first. 

Could be strong in arena though.

[Galzria]

Silver hand recruits are summoned, not played, so Hobgoblin isn't really their friend.

Giving all Silver hand recruits +2/+2 is not good.  You don't design decks around hero power spam if it's not life tap because cards are better (otherwise Novice Engineer would be good)

Echoes of Medhev looks really scary with the Mechwarper Mage deck I am interested in.

Cards generally are better, because for the most part, Hero Powers aren't designed to be on curve.

However at 3/3 for 2, and "spammable" it would certainly be a little more worthwhile. Especially because it would reduce the amount of draw that's needed to be effective.

However, it's moot if they're summoned, and it's not the same as played.

Again I am being confusing with my post
If Hobgoblin worked with silver hand recruits that would indeed be a good strategy if it was allowed because Hobgoblin is not super below curve and he does crap other than improving your silver hand recruits.

The card Jorbles Kingzog liked, which only buffs Silver Hand Recruits by +2/+2 is much further below curve, that's what I was bashing.

Yeah, Quartermaster, at 5 (and only 2/5 himself), is much to late in the game for 3/3 Silver Hands to matter anymore.

[Galzria]

The fb page isn't loading the cards correctly for me.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

I think this card could see play. The drawback isn't likely to matter in the type of aggro deck it appears in. The type of deck this will appear in will probably lose if it goes past turn 7 or 8 anyways. So the fact that you might be out of cards when you lose isn't really an issue. That's a huge card for a 5 drop.

It seems worse at what Venture Co Mercenary does to me.

Better for tempo, and the drawback only matters if you get into the last few cards of your deck...

[ashersky]

Man, I don't know what to craft!

[popsofctown]

Venture Co Mercenary slows you down a little bit if taunts are thrown in front of it, but doesn't lose you the game.

If Fel reaver is forced to clear out a Voidwalker I think you will lose the game outright.

[popsofctown]

Troggzor is probably the new best double innervate target

[KingZog3]

Man, I don't know what to craft!

Nothing. Open packs before you craft. I also saved 1000 gold for arena runs, so that I can pump my collection right away.

[Galzria]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

I think this card could see play. The drawback isn't likely to matter in the type of aggro deck it appears in. The type of deck this will appear in will probably lose if it goes past turn 7 or 8 anyways. So the fact that you might be out of cards when you lose isn't really an issue. That's a huge card for a 5 drop.

It seems worse at what Venture Co Mercenary does to me.

Better for tempo, and the drawback only matters if you get into the last few cards of your deck...

I would think that in general, losing cards from your constructed deck is detrimental - And at a 5 drops, you've already likely drawn upwards of 10+ of your original 30 deck (3 starting hand, 5 turns, any +draw). That's a prime window for card dumping. If your opponent gets out just 5 cards, you're down 15 of your remaining deck. That's significant.

[Galzria]

hearthspwn has updated again to include most of the fb cards

[Awaclus]

Fel Reaver looks particularly bad...

I mean, sure, an 8/8 on a 5 Drop, but with no impact "this turn", it's drawback is terrible...

I think this card could see play. The drawback isn't likely to matter in the type of aggro deck it appears in. The type of deck this will appear in will probably lose if it goes past turn 7 or 8 anyways. So the fact that you might be out of cards when you lose isn't really an issue. That's a huge card for a 5 drop.

It seems worse at what Venture Co Mercenary does to me.

Better for tempo, and the drawback only matters if you get into the last few cards of your deck...

Well, you know what cards you're not going to draw for the rest of the game, and your opponent knows more about your decklist. Not a huge advantage either way, and not sure who benefits more.

[Galzria]

Some of those class legendary's are quite interesting.

Mal'Ganis for Warlock... He's expensive at a 9 Drop, but if you have any Taunt Minions out, he could instantly be a game-ender.

Iron Juggernaut is interesting too. A 6/5 on a 6 drop isn't all that special - but his opportunity to spike 10 is intriguing. Granted, it's not guaranteed to even see play, but still.

[popsofctown]

0 mana 0/2 TAUNT mech.  seriously.  This could be nuts

[KingZog3]

Some of those class legendary's are quite interesting.

Mal'Ganis for Warlock... He's expensive at a 9 Drop, but if you have any Taunt Minions out, he could instantly be a game-ender.

Iron Juggernaut is interesting too. A 6/5 on a 6 drop isn't all that special - but his opportunity to spike 10 is intriguing. Granted, it's not guaranteed to even see play, but still.

But it also mucks their deck. They lose a draw, take 10 damage, and you get a decent body. I'm wondering if Shaman aggro/Murloc will be any good with the new legendary and Shaman murloc. Add the Whirlo zappo thing and you could see a hyper aggro Shaman.

[KingZog3]

0 mana 0/2 TAUNT mech.  seriously.  This could be nuts

With all the buffs it could be pretty neat in zoo decks. Considering zoo sometimes used to run shield bearer to buff up, this will be better.

[Galzria]

0 mana 0/2 TAUNT mech.  seriously.  This could be nuts

With all the buffs it could be pretty neat in zoo decks. Considering zoo sometimes used to run shield bearer to buff up, this will be better.

I love the token Pirate Buffs. But c'mon. All you're going to see are Mech decks for awhile.

[HiveMindEmulator]

It's interesting that there are now cards that have an effect when drawn like the bomb and the Mage legendary.

[Awaclus]

Vol'jin looks pretty cool.

0 mana 0/2 TAUNT mech.  seriously.  This could be nuts

Seriously?

[Jorbles]

Mal'Ganis for Warlock... He's expensive at a 9 Drop, but if you have any Taunt Minions out, he could instantly be a game-ender.

He passes the what-are-you-doing-for-me-this-turn test though. Someone might have had lethal, but if you play this they have to remove this before they do lethal.

[KingZog3]

Mal'Ganis for Warlock... He's expensive at a 9 Drop, but if you have any Taunt Minions out, he could instantly be a game-ender.

He passes the what-are-you-doing-for-me-this-turn test though. Someone might have had lethal, but if you play this they have to remove this before they do lethal.

Plus the buff, plus it has good stats.

[Jorbles]

Vol'jin looks pretty cool.

0 mana 0/2 TAUNT mech.  seriously.  This could be nuts

Seriously?

Yeah, I'm curious what you mean too. I can see this being situationally not terrible (play some good card, play free taunt card to protect it), but I do not see this card as nuts and will only be good if you can combo it with other mech cards to leverage extra stats or cards out of it. It has terrible stats, and Goldshire Footmen, Shieldbearer and Voidwalker are cheap taunters that already exist and are never used in Constructed (Goldshire, Shieldbearer) or only situationally (Voidwalker) and every single one of those cards has way better stats than the Target Dummy. Does the fact that it costs 0 and is a mech make it better?

This cards main impact seems to be that it lowers the average quality of Mech cards that can randomly be dropped.

[blueblimp]

I'm amused that the legendaries leaked ages ago are real, after they were rejected as fake due to some being too stupid. Namely Leviathan, Gallywix, Vol'jin, Juggernaut. I see though that Gallywix gives a special coin, so that explains why it's not simply a more ridiculous version of Millhouse.

[markusin]

Also for some fun fan speculation, I hope they make a card that give a bonus to cards with no card text (including silenced minions). Something like a battlecry that gives vanilla minions +1/+1. It's unlikely, but I'll kick myself if they release such a card and I can't yell "called it!"

Quartermaster's effect is the closest to this. I was thinking they should have something for 5 mana with slightly better stats that gives +1/+1 or +1/+2 to anything without card text, including Silver Hand recruits. I don't like how it specifically specifies Silver Hand Recruits for the buff. Maybe it could have buffed any minion with 1 attack like Hobgoblin.

Mal'Ganis for Warlock... He's expensive at a 9 Drop, but if you have any Taunt Minions out, he could instantly be a game-ender.

He passes the what-are-you-doing-for-me-this-turn test though. Someone might have had lethal, but if you play this they have to remove this before they do lethal.

Plus the buff, plus it has good stats.

Plus it's not a Battlecry effect, so it can be summoned with Void Caller without any detriment to its ability.

[blueblimp]

It's interesting that there are now cards that have an effect when drawn like the bomb and the Mage legendary.

Back when Leviathan was leaked, I thought it was a cool mechanic. I've since changed my mind. The reason: about half of the choices you make when playing the game come down to deciding which card to play, and on-draw effects bypass that. Leviathan takes top-decking to the most absurd extreme, because the ONLY way to get use from its AOE is to top-deck it at the appropriate time, which cannot be controlled whatsoever (outside of chucking Leviathan in the mulligan phase, but that's a no-brainer). It just seems incredibly boring to play with that card and incredibly frustrating to play against.

[markusin]

Some of those class legendary's are quite interesting.

Mal'Ganis for Warlock... He's expensive at a 9 Drop, but if you have any Taunt Minions out, he could instantly be a game-ender.

Iron Juggernaut is interesting too. A 6/5 on a 6 drop isn't all that special - but his opportunity to spike 10 is intriguing. Granted, it's not guaranteed to even see play, but still.

But it also mucks their deck. They lose a draw, take 10 damage, and you get a decent body. I'm wondering if Shaman aggro/Murloc will be any good with the new legendary and Shaman murloc. Add the Whirlo zappo thing and you could see a hyper aggro Shaman.

I think all the legendaries are prety cool. I was thinking like Zog, that the bomb mucks the opponent's deck a bit in addition to the damage. Neptulon is Expensive though. It's a battlecry, so you can't even get value out of it with Ancestor's call.

[Grujah]

Damn, just lost 1400 dust.

I had 2 golden Auctioneers that I dusted when I was greedy.

Jeebus.

[markusin]

It's interesting that there are now cards that have an effect when drawn like the bomb and the Mage legendary.

Back when Leviathan was leaked, I thought it was a cool mechanic. I've since changed my mind. The reason: about half of the choices you make when playing the game come down to deciding which card to play, and on-draw effects bypass that. Leviathan takes top-decking to the most absurd extreme, because the ONLY way to get use from its AOE is to top-deck it at the appropriate time, which cannot be controlled whatsoever (outside of chucking Leviathan in the mulligan phase, but that's a no-brainer). It just seems incredibly boring to play with that card and incredibly frustrating to play against.

Kinda feel the same way about it. it's hard to incorporate it into a specific strategy as well.

So Hemet Nesingwary is finally a card too. Now all the tutorial bosses are cards.

Also hey, Vol'gin is a Priest card. Gives even more value to Holy Smite, which is already an answer to Undertaker and stuff.

Edit: Oh, and Imp-losion is my least favourite card revealed. that is the worst kind of random. Crackle is actually alright because Shaman can use another Lightning bolt anyway, plus they have those +1 spell damage Totems. The extra damage crackle can do is just a little bonus power wise. If imp-losion summoned an Imp for every damage it didn't do, then it would be cool.

[Titandrake]

With Mal'Ganis out, your Life Taps are free, which is pretty neat. Too bad it costs 9 though...it might see play, but 9 is a lot of mana and it's competing with Jaraxxus and Ysera.

Vol'jin looks pretty cool.

0 mana 0/2 TAUNT mech.  seriously.  This could be nuts

Seriously?

Yeah, I'm curious what you mean too. I can see this being situationally not terrible (play some good card, play free taunt card to protect it), but I do not see this card as nuts and will only be good if you can combo it with other mech cards to leverage extra stats or cards out of it. It has terrible stats, and Goldshire Footmen, Shieldbearer and Voidwalker are cheap taunters that already exist and are never used in Constructed (Goldshire, Shieldbearer) or only situationally (Voidwalker) and every single one of those cards has way better stats than the Target Dummy. Does the fact that it costs 0 and is a mech make it better?

This cards main impact seems to be that it lowers the average quality of Mech cards that can randomly be dropped.

Just being a 0 cost Mech is good enough for an aggressive Mech deck. I haven't looked at it too carefully, but there are a lot of good 2/3 cost mechs that buff other mechs, and any attack buff on the 0/2 Taunt suddenly makes it less harmless. Consider turn 1 0/2 taunt, Cogmaster, which you can do as first player. Shieldbearer has been used in Zoo decks before to protect minions for an extra turn, having Mech bonus on top of it could lead to nutty scenarios.

Affinity from MtG has a similar thing with Ornithopter - by itself it's bad, but with all the artifact cards and Cranial Plating, it gives you lots of consistency and speed.

[KingZog3]

With Mal'Ganis out, your Life Taps are free, which is pretty neat. Too bad it costs 9 though...it might see play, but 9 is a lot of mana and it's competing with Jaraxxus and Ysera.

If demon decks are a thing it'll beat Jaraxxus for sure. And probably Yesra too just because it can be summon by a Voidcaller.

[Kirian]

I want to make a deck centered on Dark Wispers, entirely because of the name.

Also, Malorne, holy shit.  That's one hell of a silence target.

[KingZog3]

I want to make a deck centered on Dark Wispers, entirely because of the name.

Also, Malorne, holy shit.  That's one hell of a silence target.

Yeah, it'll make a stall Druid very strong. Along with 1 Tree of Life, you could stall the game and have a huge returning large threats. Although the meta would need to be control heavy to run such a slow deck. Still very strong though.

[ycz6]

What do people think about a Mill/Taunt/heal Druid deck which uses fatigue + Malorne as a win condition? There are some good new taunts (Robo Cub, Arcane Nullifier, Dark Wispers, Lil' Exorcist, Annoy-o-Tron), ridiculous amounts of healing (Antique Healbot, Tree of Life), and some new mill synergy (Grove Tender, Clockwork Giant). Plus, Druid's lack of good hard removal will no longer be a problem, because Naturalize would be playable! Recycle is also an option, though it does conflict with mill.

I guess the test will be whether you can getting run over by mechs in the early game, and I suspect the answer is no. But we'll see...

Edit: Ninja'd

[Kirian]

What do people think about a Mill/Taunt/heal Druid deck which uses fatigue + Malorne as a win condition? There are some good new taunts (Robo Cub, Arcane Nullifier, Dark Wispers, Lil' Exorcist, Annoy-o-Tron), ridiculous amounts of healing (Antique Healbot, Tree of Life), and some new mill synergy (Grove Tender, Clockwork Giant). Plus, Druid's lack of good hard removal will no longer be a problem, because Naturalize would be playable! Recycle is also an option, though it does conflict with mill.

I guess the test will be whether you can getting run over by mechs in the early game, and I suspect the answer is no. But we'll see...

Edit: Ninja'd

The best use of Tree of Life is to mill your opponent until both players are in fatigue, then drop ToL as a big fuck-you, then Malorne...

[KingZog3]

What do people think about a Mill/Taunt/heal Druid deck which uses fatigue + Malorne as a win condition? There are some good new taunts (Robo Cub, Arcane Nullifier, Dark Wispers, Lil' Exorcist, Annoy-o-Tron), ridiculous amounts of healing (Antique Healbot, Tree of Life), and some new mill synergy (Grove Tender, Clockwork Giant). Plus, Druid's lack of good hard removal will no longer be a problem, because Naturalize would be playable! Recycle is also an option, though it does conflict with mill.

I guess the test will be whether you can getting run over by mechs in the early game, and I suspect the answer is no. But we'll see...

Edit: Ninja'd

The best use of Tree of Life is to mill your opponent until both players are in fatigue, then drop ToL as a big fuck-you, then Malorne...

It's interesting how Malorne can save you from a turn of fatigue. But since you both the Tree'd back to full life I don't see how the fatigue can be used to kill them. They get pump back to full life and get more time to win.

[markusin]

What do people think about a Mill/Taunt/heal Druid deck which uses fatigue + Malorne as a win condition? There are some good new taunts (Robo Cub, Arcane Nullifier, Dark Wispers, Lil' Exorcist, Annoy-o-Tron), ridiculous amounts of healing (Antique Healbot, Tree of Life), and some new mill synergy (Grove Tender, Clockwork Giant). Plus, Druid's lack of good hard removal will no longer be a problem, because Naturalize would be playable! Recycle is also an option, though it does conflict with mill.

I guess the test will be whether you can getting run over by mechs in the early game, and I suspect the answer is no. But we'll see...

Edit: Ninja'd

The best use of Tree of Life is to mill your opponent until both players are in fatigue, then drop ToL as a big fuck-you, then Malorne...

It's interesting how Malorne can save you from a turn of fatigue. But since you both the Tree'd back to full life I don't see how the fatigue can be used to kill them. They get pump back to full life and get more time to win.

The Druid is likely to win with Malorne in that scenario if the other player doesn't have silence on hand. Very possible, seeing as the other player is in fatigue. Malorne will just keep coming back.

Also the warrior mine from the legendary lets them draw a card after the 10 damage is done. Aw.

[Titandrake]

What do people think about a Mill/Taunt/heal Druid deck which uses fatigue + Malorne as a win condition? There are some good new taunts (Robo Cub, Arcane Nullifier, Dark Wispers, Lil' Exorcist, Annoy-o-Tron), ridiculous amounts of healing (Antique Healbot, Tree of Life), and some new mill synergy (Grove Tender, Clockwork Giant). Plus, Druid's lack of good hard removal will no longer be a problem, because Naturalize would be playable! Recycle is also an option, though it does conflict with mill.

I guess the test will be whether you can getting run over by mechs in the early game, and I suspect the answer is no. But we'll see...

Edit: Ninja'd

The best use of Tree of Life is to mill your opponent until both players are in fatigue, then drop ToL as a big fuck-you, then Malorne...

It's interesting how Malorne can save you from a turn of fatigue. But since you both the Tree'd back to full life I don't see how the fatigue can be used to kill them. They get pump back to full life and get more time to win.

The theorycrafting is about a deck that uses Coldlight, Naturalize, Dancing Swords, etc. to make your opponent ahead several turns of fatigue. If you can set this up, and not die to the card advantage, you should win long term. In a deck like that, you're probably the one who has more to gain from Tree of Life, because all you're trying to do is stall.

[Watno]

Releases on 8th December: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16960836/goblins-vs-gnomes-whirs-into-life-beginning-december-8-12-2-2014?utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.0

[KingZog3]

Releases on 8th December: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/16960836/goblins-vs-gnomes-whirs-into-life-beginning-december-8-12-2-2014?utm_expid=68589644-24.yOgsCsWhSz-gOSDIbl82Wg.0

Just saw that. So sad, I thought it might be tomorrow.

[popsofctown]

Malganis is whatever.  Might be ok.  Makes the blingtron-harrison combo sexier for handlock.

Implosion is swingy but it's deliberately underpowered like mind control tech so that it won't bother the real players too much.

Malorne is probably useless.  For an x/7 we expect to pay 6 for Boulderfist Ogre but then we're still dissatisfied with that anyway.  So the effect needs to help somehow but it's not a good effect... the effect causes you to draw the card that is overcosted in the first place, so you can only consider it a good card with recursive logic.


Double fatigue situation is no help either.  Druid mill might be supported by GvG but if it is it has no need for a 9/7 for 7.  What, you skip a single Fatigue 4 draw from playing it, and it's a priestess with some extra health?  Playing it yet again is just unrealistic, the game will be over by then.  Healbot, Tree of life, even Alexstraza are all doing its job better.

[nkirbit]

Malganis is whatever.  Might be ok.  Makes the blingtron-harrison combo sexier for handlock.

Implosion is swingy but it's deliberately underpowered like mind control tech so that it won't bother the real players too much.

Malorne is probably useless.  For an x/7 we expect to pay 6 for Boulderfist Ogre but then we're still dissatisfied with that anyway.  So the effect needs to help somehow but it's not a good effect... the effect causes you to draw the card that is overcosted in the first place, so you can only consider it a good card with recursive logic.


Double fatigue situation is no help either.  Druid mill might be supported by GvG but if it is it has no need for a 9/7 for 7.  What, you skip a single Fatigue 4 draw from playing it, and it's a priestess with some extra health?  Playing it yet again is just unrealistic, the game will be over by then.  Healbot, Tree of life, even Alexstraza are all doing its job better.

If the world is full of control warriors, I think Malorne will be an option.

[HiveMindEmulator]

If you're trying to play the most controlly of control decks, it's nice to know you can never run out of threats, so there's some appeal there. But is it better than other 9-mana win conditions? Probably not.

[popsofctown]

Control Warriors HAVE to run acolyte of pain, which makes them the free-est of freebies for wrecking with a deckout strategy.  As a bonus, tree of life heals their acolyte so you can wrath it and hero power it even more.  If the matchup was still an issue for you after that, Acidic Swamp Ooze would improve that matchup dramatically without wrecking your other matchups as much because a 3/2 for 2 is much more efficient than a 9/7 for 7, especially with symmetric draw keeping your hand full.

[markusin]

Hey, that Trade Master Galywix is liked a fixed version of the Lorewalker Cho effect. Also 8 health for 6 mana is cool. Hrm, but you're still at a huge tempo disadvantage if it gets executed or something. I guess it's meh.

This is where Troggzor shines. If it gets executed, it's practically a Cairne. I presume the summoning of the Rockjaw occurs before the spell resolves. If that's the case, it's even better than Cairne because you still get the 3/5 body if it gets hexed or Polymorphed (unless morphed by Tinkmaster or something). Even when silenced, it's still a 6/6, bigger than Cairne. So, it's really strong against control decks relying on removal to hold the game.

[ashersky]

Arcane Nullifier seems great.  It's 2/5 Fairie Dragon with Taunt.

[nkirbit]

I wonder to what extent it's going to be correct to continue to play around cards like flamestrike in arena.  The more and more cards that come out, the less number of flamestrikes we will see in any given arena deck.

[popsofctown]

Hey, that Trade Master Galywix is liked a fixed version of the Lorewalker Cho effect. Also 8 health for 6 mana is cool. Hrm, but you're still at a huge tempo disadvantage if it gets executed or something. I guess it's meh.

This is where Troggzor shines. If it gets executed, it's practically a Cairne. I presume the summoning of the Rockjaw occurs before the spell resolves. If that's the case, it's even better than Cairne because you still get the 3/5 body if it gets hexed or Polymorphed (unless morphed by Tinkmaster or something). Even when silenced, it's still a 6/6, bigger than Cairne. So, it's really strong against control decks relying on removal to hold the game.

You can regain the tempo advantage with your own execute though.

Troggzor is a better deterrent to casting spells, but both of them are deterrent enough that you should expect to win the game if your opponent can't answer the threat purely using creatures.  Since Gallywix is above vanilla neutral curve and Troggzor is below vanilla neutral curve, Gallywix does a much better job of being harder to answer with just creatures.

Gallywix, for the record, looks like a pretty big deal of a card.

[blueblimp]

Gallywix is clearly strong considered in a vacuum, but I'm not clear what kind of Rogue deck would run him. It's not like there's a Rogue deck that runs Sylvanas, for example.

[markusin]

Gallywix is clearly strong considered in a vacuum, but I'm not clear what kind of Rogue deck would run him. It's not like there's a Rogue deck that runs Sylvanas, for example.

It's bound to be a meta-call card at the very least. Cards like this and Troggzor are also bound to shape the meta themselves.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Arcane Nullifier seems great.  It's 2/5 Fairie Dragon with Taunt.

I don't know 2/5 is bad stats for a 4-drop. The Faerie Dragon effect means your opponent has to use minions to remove it, but with only 2 attack, it doesn't hurt so much to bash minions into it, and if your opponent doesn't have any minions then the taunt is not a big deal and the 2 damage doesn't apply much pressure.

[markusin]

Arcane Nullifier seems great.  It's 2/5 Fairie Dragon with Taunt.

I don't know 2/5 is bad stats for a 4-drop. The Faerie Dragon effect means your opponent has to use minions to remove it, but with only 2 attack, it doesn't hurt so much to bash minions into it, and if your opponent doesn't have any minions then the taunt is not a big deal and the 2 damage doesn't apply much pressure.

Priests can't heal it and that makes me sad.

[Kirian]

http://www.hearthhead.com/#new-cards-and-flavor-text

New flavor texts include:

Dark Wispers: "Don't worry; we fired the person who named this card."
Sabotage: "Rogues can't stand it. They know you planned it! They are going to set you straight!"
Fel Reaver: "So reaver. Much fel. Wow."

[popsofctown]

Gallywix is clearly strong considered in a vacuum, but I'm not clear what kind of Rogue deck would run him. It's not like there's a Rogue deck that runs Sylvanas, for example.

This expansion is pretty big, and the design choices seem more far reaching in consequence than Naxx.  I'm optimistic all kinds of archetypes will be born (and die), some of which we might not be able to predict.

Arcane Nullifier seems great.  It's 2/5 Fairie Dragon with Taunt.

I don't know 2/5 is bad stats for a 4-drop. The Faerie Dragon effect means your opponent has to use minions to remove it, but with only 2 attack, it doesn't hurt so much to bash minions into it, and if your opponent doesn't have any minions then the taunt is not a big deal and the 2 damage doesn't apply much pressure.

I think it could be good.  Having only 2 attack is an issue, but it's not as much of an issue as low health would be, because buffs can correct that and improved attack has faster diminishing returns than improved health.  Faerie Dragon and Spectral Knight both have this property of being extra powerful buff receptacles because all the buffs you put in come under the safety of the spell targetting umbrella and are a safe investment - it's like, a multiplier on the goodness of your Shatterd Sun Clerics or Young Priestesses buff.  Arcane Nullifiers multiplier is even better because you can put buffs under that umbrella and then those buffs are getting taunt, so now it can't get removed by virtue of hitting your face and killing your hero, which can be a pretty effective way of removing a Spectral knight buffed by Young Priestess and SSC by the way if you didn't manage to give it taunt.

I think if you don't have some strong good faith intentions of making sure Arcane Nullifier gets buffed then it is a bad card.  He's probably restricted to Rogue and Warrior off the bat because they're the only two that can super SSC a Mech for being a Mech.  I'm surprised about the lack of equality in that department, only Priest and Hunter has other mech buffs.  Priest doesn't buff Nullifiers attack, and it needs to get corrected so that's a bit of an issue.  Hunter buffs only its attack, which is exactly what you want, but, based on the cards we see available the only way to build mech tribal for hunter will be way too aggro for 2/5 taunts.

Tinker's Sharpsword Oil would be a nifty way of buffing a faerie dragon and only a faerie dragon using a spell if it wasn't overcosted by at least 1 mana.

[popsofctown]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

[popsofctown]

I'd be funner to read the flavor text if they weren't still phoning it in on the art so hard so much.  Puddlestomper is a vanilla creature that is casting some kind of water spell in his hands.  Probably a leftover from WoW tcg

[markusin]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

[popsofctown]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

the song sabotage by the beastie boys

[markusin]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

the song sabotage by the beastie boys

Should have known that one. It's in a Guitar Hero game.

[Kirian]

Also of interest:  Only 44 commons (18 class, 26 neutral) in a set of 123 cards.  I foresee a crapton of dust in everyone's futures... and there's going to be very little reason to craft commons.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

[HiveMindEmulator]

Also of interest:  Only 44 commons (18 class, 26 neutral) in a set of 123 cards.  I foresee a crapton of dust in everyone's futures... and there's going to be very little reason to craft commons.

There were 94 common of 245 card in the original expert set, so it's not really that much less.

[Kirian]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

No real connection, they probably just wanted a Doge reference somewhere.  Fel Reaver was a horrible annoyance, I suppose, but that's really not a comparison with a Shiba Inu...

[markusin]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

No real connection, they probably just wanted a Doge reference somewhere.  Fel Reaver was a horrible annoyance, I suppose, but that's really not a comparison with a Shiba Inu...

It's not a joke that's likely to age well though.

[KingZog3]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

No real connection, they probably just wanted a Doge reference somewhere.  Fel Reaver was a horrible annoyance, I suppose, but that's really not a comparison with a Shiba Inu...

It's not a joke that's likely to age well though.

It's the flavour text on one card though. It's not a problem if it doesn't age super well

[Awaclus]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

No real connection, they probably just wanted a Doge reference somewhere.  Fel Reaver was a horrible annoyance, I suppose, but that's really not a comparison with a Shiba Inu...

It's not a joke that's likely to age well though.

Indeed. It got old in a couple of days after becoming popular.

[markusin]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

No real connection, they probably just wanted a Doge reference somewhere.  Fel Reaver was a horrible annoyance, I suppose, but that's really not a comparison with a Shiba Inu...

It's not a joke that's likely to age well though.

Indeed. It got old in a couple of days after becoming popular.

That would mean all Doge jokes that came after those couple of days were only funny in an ironic way. Compare with the flavour text of Crush, which is a lot more long-lasting even though it's a pop culture reference.

[ycz6]

A bunch of interaction clarifications here: http://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/goblins-vs-gnomes-card-clarifications-ben-brode/

This one is particularly interesting: https://twitter.com/cataclyst78/status/539959426375897088 So Mistress of Pain / Auchenai Soulpriest is the biggest nombo in the game now.

[popsofctown]

They should reword some things to match what the cards are doing.  Like Tracking/Mine.

[Kirian]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

No real connection, they probably just wanted a Doge reference somewhere.  Fel Reaver was a horrible annoyance, I suppose, but that's really not a comparison with a Shiba Inu...

It's not a joke that's likely to age well though.

Indeed. It got old in a couple of days after becoming popular.

Much hipster.  So high-horse.  Amaze.

[blueblimp]

This one is particularly interesting: https://twitter.com/cataclyst78/status/539959426375897088 So Mistress of Pain / Auchenai Soulpriest is the biggest nombo in the game now.

This is almost usable. Suppose you're Priest facing Warlock, and the Warlock has Mistress of Pain and Sylvanas on the board. Drop Auchenai Soulpriest, cast Shadow Word: Death on Sylvanas so her deathrattle steals the soulpriest, and then you just need to run a minion into the MoP somehow. A charger would do the trick, but Priest wouldn't usually have one. If you had something on the board already, that could work, but it would need to dodge Sylvanas's deathrattle effect first.

[popsofctown]

This is the kind of thing I'm considering:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/mage#30:2;177:2;263:2;386:2;531:1;589:1;7732:2;7748:2;12181:2;12184:2;12188:2;12189:2;12195:2;12216:2;12230:2;12300:2;

[markusin]

This one is particularly interesting: https://twitter.com/cataclyst78/status/539959426375897088 So Mistress of Pain / Auchenai Soulpriest is the biggest nombo in the game now.

This is almost usable. Suppose you're Priest facing Warlock, and the Warlock has Mistress of Pain and Sylvanas on the board. Drop Auchenai Soulpriest, cast Shadow Word: Death on Sylvanas so her deathrattle steals the soulpriest, and then you just need to run a minion into the MoP somehow. A charger would do the trick, but Priest wouldn't usually have one. If you had something on the board already, that could work, but it would need to dodge Sylvanas's deathrattle effect first.

With all the random summoning of minions, the fatal nombo can happen accidentally.

You play Flamestrike and destroy a Piloted Golem and a Piloted Shredder, revealing Auchenai and Mistress of Pain. Attack the Mistress, and it's "Best Hearthstone Moments" material.

[markusin]

This is the kind of thing I'm considering:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/mage#30:2;177:2;263:2;386:2;531:1;589:1;7732:2;7748:2;12181:2;12184:2;12188:2;12189:2;12195:2;12216:2;12230:2;12300:2;

Wow it's true you can do ludicrous stuff with Mechwarper + Echo.

[popsofctown]

So the idea is that you play Mechwarper and four copies of Replicate (Mad scientist is essentially two of them.  I put counterspell in to keep him from fizzling but it might be better to just let him fizzle so he doesn't miss, not sure).

You play a little early game stuff, then trade, then let your board become empty, then play Mechwarper.  If they silence it, dude, you're weird, who runs silence (it looks grim though).  If they kill it, you get 2 Mechwarpers in hand which lets wombo combo dump tons of mechs later.  If they don't kill it, you'll probably win in spite losing 3 mana's worth of tempo playing that secret because you'll be able to get so much mech discount and Annoyotron will eventually force them to pop replicate.

The tough part is what if you don't draw Mechwarper.  The deck has some stally nature to it to make that ok though.


That's just a rough draft of the idea.  On second thought I think the deck needs to be more freeze-magish to make it consistently last long enough to see Mechwarper.  Spells are also great if you want to beat face with a Mechwarper without playing other replicate targets anyway.

Acolyte of Pain and Cult master might be better than Jeeves, I'm not sure to what extent Jeeves is just shiny and new.  Or Arcane Intellect, that's a card.

[markusin]

I can't believe I didn't pick up on the homstar runner reference in troggzor till i saw the flavor text

I was mixing up the names in my head, not thinking that it might have been intentionally named like that.

Also, what's Sabotage referencing. I feel like I know it, but I'm drawing a blank.

Much flavour. so lore. WoW.

I hadn't heard of Troggs outside of Troggzor, so no mix up from me. I don't get the doge meme thing on Fel Reaver. Is it actually something related or they just had nothing good to put?

No real connection, they probably just wanted a Doge reference somewhere.  Fel Reaver was a horrible annoyance, I suppose, but that's really not a comparison with a Shiba Inu...

It's not a joke that's likely to age well though.

Indeed. It got old in a couple of days after becoming popular.

That would mean all Doge jokes that came after those couple of days were only funny in an ironic way. Compare with the flavour text of Crush, which is a lot more long-lasting even though it's a pop culture reference.

What's this? Is Shielded Minibot referencing Futurama?

[KingZog3]

Actually, why does the Mistress Auchenai thing kill you? Wouldn't it just deal damage for the damage Mistress does? Why does it repeat till you die?

[popsofctown]

Actually, why does the Mistress Auchenai thing kill you? Wouldn't it just deal damage for the damage Mistress does? Why does it repeat till you die?

Remember Auchenai makes your cards do healing instead of damage, just like an over write.

So Mistress's new text is "Whenever Mistress deals damage to something, Mistress deals that much damage to your hero".

Since Mistress dealing damage to your hero is Mistress dealing damage to something the result of the proc can and should generate another proc.

[markusin]

Actually, why does the Mistress Auchenai thing kill you? Wouldn't it just deal damage for the damage Mistress does? Why does it repeat till you die?

Remember Auchenai makes your cards do healing instead of damage, just like an over write.

So Mistress's new text is "Whenever Mistress deals damage to something, Mistress deals that much damage to your hero".

Since Mistress dealing damage to your hero is Mistress dealing damage to something the result of the proc can and should generate another proc.

Yeah. The heal becomes damage dealing, like how Knife Juggler deals damage when you summon a minion. It looks like they decided heal-turned-damage counts as Mistress dealing damage and therefore it triggers the heal. The heal of course becomes dealt damage as well, and the loop is formed.

[popsofctown]

Y'know, I think Blizz avoids admitting to mistakes to an unreasonable extent when they make patches.  Gadgetzan probably had to be nerfed because the new cards like Spare Parts were breaking him.  It was rather shortsighted in the first place to make a card like him that is balanced only by the lack of existence of cheap spells to proc him if the plan to expand the game in the future.  And he might need to be nerfed yet again if this game is around for ten years or what have you.  Gadgetzan + various potential future innervate variants + various potential future faceshot variants is an OTK whatever turn you play him.

[markusin]

Y'know, I think Blizz avoids admitting to mistakes to an unreasonable extent when they make patches.  Gadgetzan probably had to be nerfed because the new cards like Spare Parts were breaking him.  It was rather shortsighted in the first place to make a card like him that is balanced only by the lack of existence of cheap spells to proc him if the plan to expand the game in the future.  And he might need to be nerfed yet again if this game is around for ten years or what have you.  Gadgetzan + various potential future innervate variants + various potential future faceshot variants is an OTK whatever turn you play him.

But then you had Buzzard, which was crazy even before the expansion, especially after they changed Unleash the Hounds so that it summons hounds.

[blueblimp]

I think it's fine to temporarily have cards that restrict future design space. I'd prefer if Blizzard would simply rotate them out rather than nerf them, but anyway, I think the game was better for Miracle Rogue existing as an archetype, because that's a pretty cool deck. Another example is Auchenai Soulpriest: cool card, but will eventually need to be removed or nerfed because it limits the design space of every targeted heal effect that's neutral or Priest-specific. It's still good to have in the game at this point.

[popsofctown]

I think it's fine to temporarily have cards that restrict future design space. I'd prefer if Blizzard would simply rotate them out rather than nerf them, but anyway, I think the game was better for Miracle Rogue existing as an archetype, because that's a pretty cool deck. Another example is Auchenai Soulpriest: cool card, but will eventually need to be removed or nerfed because it limits the design space of every targeted heal effect that's neutral or Priest-specific. It's still good to have in the game at this point.

I'd agree with that philosophy but Blizzard has used some different rhetoric than that.  "We want to nerf cards as little as possible so people have faith in their cards", they said something like that at one point.

[popsofctown]

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/129103-aaaa

Went for a Sticky Minion - > Cult Master subtheme.  Since Annoyotron and Harvest Golem are sticky and mechs and Test Dummy can make anything stickier it seems ok.

Fixed a bug where my mage deck didn't have Bloodmage Thalnos.

[markusin]

I just don't know what deck to build anymore. I'm hoping to be able to build a mech-ish Warlock deck at some point. That Anima Golem is really interesting. It's incentive to run Blood Imp, although I suspect you can modify the typical Zoo deck to be slightly stickier than it already is.

[pingpongsam]

Let me get this straight. You are building decks with cards that you can't currently own and when there is still a cadre of unreleased cards that might entirely negate these builds?

[HiveMindEmulator]

^All cards for this expansion have been announced.

[Watno]

GvG cards are now avaialble in the arena: http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/721-goblins-vs-gnomes-invades-the-arena-2-0-0-7234

[Grujah]

Lol at patch-notes:

Faceless Manipulator will now copy Echoing Ooze as well as it's effect.

Faceless Manipulator will now copy Echoing Ooze as well as it's effect.

Also, Kel'Thuzard doesn't revive himself if struck by Ragnaros. About time.

[popsofctown]

Right after I started a new arena run

[Jorbles]

The next one is free though?

[nkirbit]

Yep.  I'm playing with the new cards right now.. have 8 or so in my deck, I think.  Excited to see how it goes!

[Grujah]

I've got
New Yeti (is a Yeti, so of course it is insane in arena)
2/2 Divine Shield for 2 (Decent, Pretty good vs classes with no ability to take away shield turn 2, than it can basically trade for 2 3/2 in best case scenario)
Muster for Battle (which proved to be VERY good, and I still didn't combo it with my Stormwind Champ)
and....

RECOCOMBULATOR!
Which I picked over Ley on Hands.
And he .. under-performed so far.
It turned 3/2 Senjin into Summoning Portal, 5/6 Guardian of Kings into 5/5, and 4/2 Yeti into 2/5 Taunt Hexproof (which was good).

Very fun, also kinda easy as far, I am 8-0. Maybe many new people came to play.
(I do have 23 Yetis and 3 Senjins, though).

[popsofctown]

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/shaman#24:2;77:2;256:1;305:2;386:2;390:2;473:2;491:2;525:1;542:2;613:1;7756:2;12179:2;12181:2;12231:2;12269:1;12288:2;

Sticky Flametongue/Dire Wolf shaman.  This seems more highly likely to be a thing than the more experimental medhev stuff

[nkirbit]

My first time I played madder bomber, I had a 2/3 out, my opponent had two 2/4s and a 2/1 stealth out, and my madder bomber shot me twice, my 2/3 3 times, and my opponent once.

Did a very good mad bomber+ impression, hahahahaha.  I forsee much frustration due to that card.

[Grujah]

Also that 3/3 that deals 4 damage on random - pretty nifty animation

[popsofctown]

Isn't Madder Bomber just bad anyway? 3/2 for 2 is on-curve, 5/4 for 5 is below curve, symettric effects have to do a lot of work to make up that difference..

[Grujah]

It's not symetric if he has more minions.

[nkirbit]

Isn't Madder Bomber just bad anyway? 3/2 for 2 is on-curve, 5/4 for 5 is below curve, symettric effects have to do a lot of work to make up that difference..

Yeah, maybe.  I wanted to try it out, though.  I'm pretty much taking a lot of new cards just to see how they are.

I can report that the madder bomber animation is not nearly as cool as the mad bomber animation

[popsofctown]

It's not symetric if he has more minions.

Yeah, that's what the concept of breaking a symmetric effect is about, I've won with Council Room before.  But symmetric effects require work so they're naturally worth less

[blueblimp]

Kinda wish they'd bias the arena draft towards GvG, maybe just temporarily.

[Jorbles]

Do you get GvG packs for prizes yet?

[popsofctown]

Kinda wish they'd bias the arena draft towards GvG, maybe just temporarily.

That would be designing the arena experience, which seems like something they haven't made the slightest effort towards since Questing Adventurer swapped rarities with Flesheating Ghoul October of last year.

[markusin]

I was thinking of streaming my first ever GvG arena run, but it looks like everyone is busy doing arena runs of their own and I want a piece of the action. There's a chance the server gets flooded on the official expansion release day. I don't want to be stuck experiencing lag right when thr expansion comes out. Besides Arena is where I'll be putting my focus for awhile.

[nkirbit]

Do you get GvG packs for prizes yet?

No, still the old ones.

[nkirbit]

I was thinking of streaming my first ever GvG arena run, but it looks like everyone is busy doing arena runs of their own and I want a piece of the action. There's a chance the server gets flooded on the official expansion release day. I don't want to be stuck experiencing lag right when thr expansion comes out. Besides Arena is where I'll be putting my focus for awhile.

I would watch (while playing my own) !

[mpsprs]

My first time I played madder bomber, I had a 2/3 out, my opponent had two 2/4s and a 2/1 stealth out, and my madder bomber shot me twice, my 2/3 3 times, and my opponent once.

Did a very good mad bomber+ impression, hahahahaha.  I forsee much frustration due to that card.

Played Madder Bomber while opponent had three 1/1 imps, and I had blank board.

6 shots to my face.  Thanks.

[nkirbit]

My first time I played madder bomber, I had a 2/3 out, my opponent had two 2/4s and a 2/1 stealth out, and my madder bomber shot me twice, my 2/3 3 times, and my opponent once.

Did a very good mad bomber+ impression, hahahahaha.  I forsee much frustration due to that card.

Played Madder Bomber while opponent had three 1/1 imps, and I had blank board.

6 shots to my face.  Thanks.

My first piloted shredder deathrattle ever summoned... Ancient Watcher!  Hooray!

(I had a shadowflame in hand so it was actually fine!)

[blueblimp]

Only time I've seen Madder Bomber so far, my opponent played it against me, and all 6 shots went to my minions. I double-checked the text after that.

[markusin]

I was thinking of streaming my first ever GvG arena run, but it looks like everyone is busy doing arena runs of their own and I want a piece of the action. There's a chance the server gets flooded on the official expansion release day. I don't want to be stuck experiencing lag right when thr expansion comes out. Besides Arena is where I'll be putting my focus for awhile.

I would watch (while playing my own) !

The responsible thing to do would be to study for my software project management exam tomorrow morning, then stream tomorrow night or maybe on the weekend. So...nah I'll study. I was too distracted during the last couple of lectures.

[Grujah]

I can't steam, but you guys can spectate if you want
I COULD stream sound only, perhaps.

[markusin]

I can't steam, but you guys can spectate if you want
I COULD stream sound only, perhaps.

Spectator mode gives you non-delayed live feed, but twitch has some delay, so I don't think they'd mesh well together. Unless audio-only streams can have reduced delay on twitch.

Yeah I'd want to spectate some of you guys.

[Grujah]

So, I play War Golem.
He plays Humility on it, turning it into 1/7. I kill a 2/1 with it and than Recocombulate it into GAH'ZRILLA!
Now, the fun just begins.
I also play some other minions, and than because he has 4/4 ogre that can miss on attack he has to play divine shild on my Gah'zrilla so that he wound't accidently set it off.  (he's ogre ends up slamming my yeti, which was great for me).

I than make a huge misplay and stupidly lose the game, but whatevers.

[Grujah]

I can't steam, but you guys can spectate if you want
I COULD stream sound only, perhaps.

Spectator mode gives you non-delayed live feed, but twitch has some delay, so I don't think they'd mesh well together. Unless audio-only streams can have reduced delay on twitch.

Yeah I'd want to spectate some of you guys.

I'm playing Right now on EU, Grujah#2916, I could give voice on skype (grujah(et)gmail.com).


And Reconcombulator is now officially the most fun card. I just got Lightwell out if it, it was hilarious match.

[Grujah]

Edit: There is also a new battleground (background) which is all tech-like.

[KingZog3]

Edit: There is also a new battleground (background) which is all tech-like.

You can shoot the laser across the board to blast the rocket off! Wooo!

[Grujah]

How? I didn't manage to.

[Galzria]

You're all making me sad that I'm at work.

OTOH, I shouldn't be spending my Gold on Arena runs now just to play with the cards... it'll be much better spent obtaining them in a few days.

[Grujah]

You're all making me sad that I'm at work.

OTOH, I shouldn't be spending my Gold on Arena runs now just to play with the cards... it'll be much better spent obtaining them in a few days.

If you log in now, you get one free arena ticked that you can use only before the release. So it's either play a free arena with GnG and get a regular pack, or nothing. You cannot save it for later, it's one time only. It's like MTG Pre-release, I guess. Other arenas are regular. (i think).

All wrong.
You get a single free arena ticked, usable anytime. All arenas now are GvG.


Also, I ended up 12-1. I got pretty shitty rewards again (250 gold and 2 golden rares (aka 200 dust)):

[markusin]

I had just purchased an arena run yesterday, but didn't pick a hero. Do you think I'll see the GvG cards once I do?

[KingZog3]

How? I didn't manage to.

You need to hit the antenna thing. It'll spark and the sirens flash. The KabooM! Also the machine with the levers is fun. I made a boot and a fish.

[mpsprs]

I had just purchased an arena run yesterday, but didn't pick a hero. Do you think I'll see the GvG cards once I do?

Yes.  I had done the same thing (except replace yesterday with last month-I haven't played for a while).

[KingZog3]

This is so funny. I love the sounds. "I'm little, but I pack a biiiig punch!"

I draft an Warrior with so many weapons. 2 Firey War Axe, 2 Ogre Warmauls, 2 Death's Bite and an Acanite reaper. Even managed a Spiteful Smith too. 3 Frothings also makes the to-the-face potential so good.

[ycz6]

Windspeaker into Cloakfield (the Stealth-giving spare part) is so sick. I did 26 damage to face over two turns using Spiteful Smith, those two cards, Crazed Alchemist, and Bloodlust.


Edit: My opponent just used Rusty Horn (the Taunting spare part) on my Ragnaros to get around my Taunt totem. That use never occurred to me.

[blueblimp]

Opponent recombobulated a 5/1 Tiger into a Doomguard. Yeah. That game didn't go well.

[Grujah]

This is so funny. I love the sounds. "I'm little, but I pack a biiiig punch!"

That one and Chugga Chugga Chugga .. Chugga Chugga! Are the best

[KingZog3]

This is so funny. I love the sounds. "I'm little, but I pack a biiiig punch!"

That one and Chugga Chugga Chugga .. Chugga Chugga! Are the best

I like the little trog too. "Trogg noo stoopid!"

[pingpongsam]

So far so good on my arena run, loving the new cards. I saved a few thousand gold since the announcement so I'll probably run strictly arena for a few weeks to learn/gain cards before trying constructed.

[popsofctown]

My first time I played madder bomber, I had a 2/3 out, my opponent had two 2/4s and a 2/1 stealth out, and my madder bomber shot me twice, my 2/3 3 times, and my opponent once.

Did a very good mad bomber+ impression, hahahahaha.  I forsee much frustration due to that card.

Played Madder Bomber while opponent had three 1/1 imps, and I had blank board.

6 shots to my face.  Thanks.

My first piloted shredder deathrattle ever summoned... Ancient Watcher!  Hooray!

(I had a shadowflame in hand so it was actually fine!)

My first ever summoned Murloc Tidehunter.  Here to let me know about those battlecries being out there.

[Jorbles]

So far my favourite new sound effect is "Troggzorrr TrogzoRRR". Can't wait to hear what Troggzor himself sounds like.

[KingZog3]

So far my favourite new sound effect is "Troggzorrr TrogzoRRR". Can't wait to hear what Troggzor himself sounds like.

Someone played Trogzzor against my brother and I. I don't remember what he says though

[Galzria]

My opponent played Madder Bomber. He wiped my board on 6 shots.

My opponent recalled his Madder Bomber and then played him again. I took 6 to face.

I don't like Madder Bomber.

[pingpongsam]

Animation for Flying Blades or whichever one does random damage until a minion dies is pretty sweet especially when it kills them and not mine.

[popsofctown]

Miracle Druid

http://www.hearthpwn.com/deckbuilder/druid#73:1;94:2;131:2;282:2;459:2;503:1;525:1;532:2;548:2;620:2;633:2;7749:1;12180:2;12200:2;12270:2;12272:1;12273:2;12279:1;

[markusin]

Heh, so I destroy my opponent's Sky Golem in Arena. It drops Jeeves, which lets me draw 2 extra cards.

Definitely needed those 2 cards to win the game.

[Titandrake]

Heh, so I destroy my opponent's Sky Golem in Arena. It drops Jeeves, which lets me draw 2 extra cards.

Definitely needed those 2 cards to win the game.

I have no idea how to play against Sky Golem. My opponent played one, and the only way I could remove it was by Truesilver, but I didn't want to take extra damage from the summoned 4-cost minion. It was just all around annoying to deal with.

Edit: just to clarify - I know that killing with a weapon is the same amount of damage as if the minion hit your face anyways, but the problem is that the summoned 4-cost minion basically has charge, and once you're already taking 6 damage from the trade, it's so tricky to justify.

[blueblimp]

I don't think there is any good way to play against Sky Golem. It's basically a slightly worse version of Cairne, and Cairne is crazy in arena. The whole piloted family is pretty bonkers.

[KingZog3]

I don't think there is any good way to play against Sky Golem. It's basically a slightly worse version of Cairne, and Cairne is crazy in arena. The whole piloted family is pretty bonkers.

Well the small shredder is manageable. Most 2 drops can be killed by a larger minions you have out. But 4 drops are hard to deal with.

[blueblimp]

Seems confirmed that Flamecannon is amazing. I'd pick it over Frostbolt for sure. There's even an argument for taking it over Fireball.

[theory]

Over Frostbolt I can see.  Over Fireball I cannot since it doesn't threaten lethal like Fireball does.

[popsofctown]

I don't think there is any good way to play against Sky Golem. It's basically a slightly worse version of Cairne, and Cairne is crazy in arena. The whole piloted family is pretty bonkers.

Slightly worse does a disservice to Cairne.  Cairne is guaranteed to provide an unsituational on-curve 4 drop when it cracks open on top of 4/5 being slightly better than 6/4.

With piloted skygolem I think it is good to setup a play tree where you have strong options no matter what the outcome of cracking it is.  It's like playing Tinkmaster in that it's good to have plan for the outcome where something needs to get spot removed vs. needs to be ignored.
And sometimes you need to recognize that you're at enough of a disadvantage that you can only win if the Sky golem whiffs into DoA, so optimal play is to assume that sky golem will whiff into DoA.

[ycz6]

• Draw Gahz'rilla off Webspinner
• Play Gahz'rilla
• Put Unstable Ghoul next to Gahz'rilla
• Explosive Shot own Unstable Ghoul
• Kill opponent

[blueblimp]

4/5 being slightly better than 6/4.

I don't know if I agree on a 6-drop. At that stage of the game, 6/4 threatens to trade well (with help of ping) with other 6/7-drops like Boulderfist Ogre, Stormwind Champion, which 4/5 doesn't. You're also less concerned about raptors than you are earlier on. Not that 4/5 doesn't have its advantages, like surviving Flamestrike (although Flamestrike is less frequent now).

[Kirian]

4/5 being slightly better than 6/4.

I don't know if I agree on a 6-drop. At that stage of the game, 6/4 threatens to trade well (with help of ping) with other 6/7-drops like Boulderfist Ogre, Stormwind Champion, which 4/5 doesn't. You're also less concerned about raptors than you are earlier on. Not that 4/5 doesn't have its advantages, like surviving Flamestrike (although Flamestrike is less frequent now).

Sure, but the 6/4 can also be killed by most 4-drops, and the 4-drop that appears might even be killed by a 3-drop or removal--average health of 4-drops is close to 4, not 5.  Meanwhile, Cairne isn't getting taken out by a 4-drop or lower without some boosts and great timing, and after Cairne pops you still have another 4/5.

[markusin]

Pfft. Opponent plays Annoy-O-Tron to block my Dunemaul Shaman. My Dunemaul Shaman "misses" and hits face twice. Next turn my opponent plays Spectral Knight. I play Flametongue totem to boost my Shaman's attack (and that of my Darkscale healer). The Shaman "misses" and hits face twice. Again. Seeing lethal, I play Hex on the Annoy-O-Tron, remove the frog with Rockbite, and my Darkscale Healer hits face for the finish.

Now who's annoying.

[popsofctown]

4/5 being slightly better than 6/4.

I don't know if I agree on a 6-drop. At that stage of the game, 6/4 threatens to trade well (with help of ping) with other 6/7-drops like Boulderfist Ogre, Stormwind Champion, which 4/5 doesn't. You're also less concerned about raptors than you are earlier on. Not that 4/5 doesn't have its advantages, like surviving Flamestrike (although Flamestrike is less frequent now).

I think there actually is gonna be a resurgence of Mage dominance in arena with this expansion.  We have a great 2/1 that's tempting to take for its strength against the other 8 classes, several strong 3 drops that will take on Harvest Golem's and Scarlet Crusader's role, but fail to survive flamestrikes (Ogre brute, spider tank, Tinkertown, 2/4s), more Polymorph food, and Flamecannon.

So I think health will start to regain importance for the main matchup where it lost some of that importance with Naxx due to give-up-on-killing-the-spiders and Sludge Belcher

[popsofctown]

Cairne pops

You must have been watching the streaming I don't do to know that Cairne is my only golden legendary but I approve this nickname for myself

[markusin]

Achievement unlocked: Win a game where you played Fel Reaver.

[popsofctown]

Achievement unlocked: Win a game where you played Fel Reaver.

In arena that doesn't seem the least bit hard.. I only find the card wanting in constructed.

[blueblimp]

The real achievement in arena is winning a game when your opponent plays Fel Reaver. Now _that_ is hard.

[markusin]

Well, it seemed pretty epic when it happened. I played it against a Paladin on turn 5, and went into fatigue by turn 8. But I had hopes of winning the game because the rest of my hand was full of quality cards. It was also one of my only 2 activators for Tinkertown Technician. I guess the real challenge is getting a 12-win run  with the card in the deck. To me, it looks it makes your deck converge to the 7-win mark at best.

I picked it in the draft mainly for the lulz (other 2 choices were Clockwork Giant and Echoing Ooze with no combo options). I'm surprised by how decent it is (I did indeed lose a game against another player who played it even though they went to fatigue and I had destroyed it the turn after it was played.

[popsofctown]

The real achievement in arena is winning a game when your opponent plays Fel Reaver. Now _that_ is hard.

I got the beast in..

[Grujah]

The real achievement in arena is winning a game when your opponent plays Fel Reaver. Now _that_ is hard.

I've lost with it on board one, I think.

[heron]

The real achievement in arena is winning a game when your opponent plays Fel Reaver. Now _that_ is hard.

Done. I had Big Game Hunter.

[markusin]

Just pulled this off:
Turn 2: Pint Sized Summoner
Turn 3: Coin -> Fel Reaver

So then, it could be good Innervate minion.

Also, Coghammer seems to be amazing, at least in arena. If your 2 or 3 attack 2 drop survives through turn 2, playing Coghammer on turn 3 gives you 4+ points worth of damage and you still have a 2 drop and a 2/2 weapon.

[Jorbles]

Got Malorne off a Spider in ranked, but I didn't get to play it because my opponent resigned on turn 6. :_(

I never got to see the animation or sound effects.

[Grujah]

Pulled this off:



 

[nkirbit]

Oh man, I had the most insane game earlier involving Fel Reaver.  I'm playing as a priest against a mage at like 10 wins in Arena.

His turn 5, he has a 2/2 on board, and I have nothing.  He plays Fel Reaver.  I don't have a clean answer, but play Emperor Cobra, Shadow Word Pain his 2/2, and hope he doesn't have frostbolt.  He doesn't, and he actually trades into my cobra (He had already burned 6 cards, and I guess he didn't want to risk me playing 4 cards, or freezing the felreaver, or something along those lines.)

Fastforward 8 turns or so.  We're pretty far in the game, and I'm getting low on life, down to about 5 life after his attacks.  He had a board of a 6/3, a 4/5, a 5/3 (Or something along those lines, the specific minions don't matter).  He plays the last card in his hand, which is a second Fel Reaver! He has 6 cards left in his deck.  On my turn, I play Stormwind Knight, attack his 4/5, and play lightbomb, leaving him with no cards on board, no cards in hand, and no cards in deck.

[Twistedarcher]

The real achievement in arena is winning a game when your opponent plays Fel Reaver. Now _that_ is hard.

I was watching a game of Nkirbit where he won a game where his opponent played two Fel Reavers.

Edit: Ninja'd, oops.

[blueblimp]

he actually trades into my cobra

"Trade Fel Reaver into Emperor Cobra" could be an insanity wolf meme.

[nkirbit]

he actually trades into my cobra

"Trade Fel Reaver into Emperor Cobra" could be an insanity wolf meme.

Well, had he not, I would've actually played Vol'jin and doubled its health before I killed it.. so maybe it was for the best!

[Jorbles]

So how much Gold/Dust do you guys have saved for the new expansion? I have 1200 Gold and enough Dust for 1 Legendary (which I think will be Troggzor).

[Grujah]

I have ~700 gold and 3000+ dust.

[popsofctown]

2500 gold, 3200 dust if i dust my excess cards, and 60$.

Not sure on dusting priorities for this set.  The neutrals are iffy in various ways.  Troggzor looks like it could be really strong, but we could see him trade with stuff and die a lot in practice.  Loatheb is closer to vanilla curve on his stats and also has a just-forget-about it prohibition on casting spells.  Sure, Loatheb only lasts one turn, but how long do minions last multiple turns in Hearthstone? It's not MtG, stuff dies fast.

I'll probably craft Troggzor just because I like druid a lot, and he has the most synergy with Innervate ever.  Innervate- Innervate- Rag can get BGH'ed or hexed, which keeps that strategy in check.  Troggzor dodges both bullets.

Sneed's Old Shredder is a tauntless unshielded Tirion with a whiff chance.  Foe Reaper is garbage because it dies to conventional removal in addition to Hex.  I'd only run Gazlowe if I somehow needed a 3rd, weaker Auctioneer (not impossible I guess).  Mekgineer Thermaplug is a joke card.  Mimiron's Head is a tutorial on more-win and why more-win is bad.  Mogor the Ogor needs health.

Dr. Boom seems really good, actually.  He kinda feels like a 7 mana version of Rag, BGHable but BGH doesn't erase all pain completely.  He might be better than Rag, really.  Lack of taunt/charge is his only issue, Rag has a pseudo form of it, but at 7 mana that's more forgivable.  I wouldn't be totally shocked if Dr. Boom became an every deck thing.  Might be too slow, but after the nerfs the game seems slowed enough for him to be strong (if mech meta doesn't re-speed it back up past that).

Toshley also seems really good.  He's kinda like the Azure Drake of boulderfistery since a spare part is like half a card.  He might not be better than Cairne, but he doesn't really have to be, I could see you wanting to run both.

So I think neutrals crafting is something like Dr. Boom > Toshley > Troggzor > garbage

[nkirbit]

I have 1500 gold and 9500 dust.  I'm not yet sure what I want to craft.. I may just sit around for a week and play arena, and then figure out what the best players are playing and craft/open the cards I need.  I don't play enough constructed to realistically be competing for legend ranks anyway, so I am okay waiting to see what players who are better and play more than I do make, and create the deck out of those that looks like the most fun.

[Kirian]

I'm sitting on ~1100 gold but only ~1900 dust.

Most of that dust is going into a neutral legendary, but I'm still uncertain if it should be something from G&G or an old standby like Cairne/Ragnaros.

[popsofctown]

I'm sitting on ~1100 gold but only ~1900 dust.

Most of that dust is going into a neutral legendary, but I'm still uncertain if it should be something from G&G or an old standby like Cairne/Ragnaros.

I think Rag's stock has a risk of going down, but Cairne will stay relevant

[KingZog3]

I got Dr. Boom in arena and he sucked. His boom bots can hit face, and when it's 1 damage it's really bad. I don't see him ever being good.

[markusin]

~1100 gold and only 800 dust.

I'm just going to build my collection through playing arena, then see which desired deck I'm closest to building and craft to add missing pieces.

About Dr. Boom, I also had him in arena and played against him in arena. I'd say he's alright. His Boom bots don't always hit face and they can attack too. Helps if you're a bit behind on the board, and makes it hard for your opponent to regain tempo if you have a tempo advantage.

Someone here on the forum was saying that it offers more than Gahz'rilla in the face of hard removal.

And Rag also hits face sometimes, and that's not always what you need.

[popsofctown]

I got Dr. Boom in arena and he sucked. His boom bots can hit face, and when it's 1 damage it's really bad. I don't see him ever being good.

What seven drop or six drop outclasses him?

[markusin]

Somewhat bold prediction here, but if aggro mech decks become a thing then Cog Master is going to be a really big deal. If you a have Mech 2-drop, it's Flame Imp for all classes. That's enough to kill a 1-buff Undertaker and most other 2 drops.

[KingZog3]

I got Dr. Boom in arena and he sucked. His boom bots can hit face, and when it's 1 damage it's really bad. I don't see him ever being good.

What seven drop or six drop outclasses him?

Cairne, Sylvannas. I'd rather both of those. Dr. Boom doesn't catch up up as much as you might think, unless his board is all weenie guys. I was very unimpressed.

[popsofctown]

Sylvanas might catchup better, but Cairne has only 4 attack of board presence so he's not much of a catchupper either.

[Titandrake]

I'll probably stick to using arena to get GvG packs, see what cards seem nice to have and craft stuff later.

[ycz6]

I'll probably stick to using arena to get GvG packs, see what cards seem nice to have and craft stuff later.

Yeah, this is my plan too, though I may have to craft one each of Recombobulator and Piloted Sky Golem just because of how cool they are.

[Galzria]

I fail hard at Arena. I'll be buying packs with Gold when it hits.

[popsofctown]

I'll probably stick to using arena to get GvG packs, see what cards seem nice to have and craft stuff later.

Yeah, this is my plan too, though I may have to craft one each of Recombobulator and Piloted Sky Golem just because of how cool they are.

I wish Recombobulator wasn't epic, because it's a pretty dang cool card.  The power overwhelming combos are so real.

[markusin]

Yay, I reached 12 wins on GvG Arena Mode.
http://arenamastery.com/anos

Yeah Sky Golem is pretty fun. I may have to reconsider Piloted Sky Golem Piloted Shredder as the premier 4-Mana Mech drop though. Zog spectated a match where it summoned Ancient Watcher, but then I played against another one that summoned Vitality Totem. The 4 drops vary in stats but they are usually formidable and help you follow up the aggressive 6-attack of the Sky Golem.

[Titandrake]

I drafted a Sneed's Old Shredder, and got it out against a Warrior. I could have won the game a turn or 2 earlier, but I decidedly to slow-play a bit to get a chance to see what Legendary I got.

I trade for his last minion, ping it with Hero Power to get the last 1 damage to trigger deathrattle...and summon another Shredder.

I feel so ripped off.

[Galzria]

I wantses my new cards! My Precious'ssss... My Shinies.... My Sweets....

[popsofctown]

i drew with Jeeves while in fatigue mode in a priest game.  I ended turn with two cards in hand, and Jeeves drew me 1 fatigue card, but he bugged out and said "Ah, yes sir" twice instead of once.  He wants to to be a good infinite butler blizzard just let him..

[Jorbles]

I wantses my new cards! My Precious'ssss... My Shinies.... My Sweets....

I got up early this morning just in case I could open packs. Of course I couldn't. Not til midnight probably.

[popsofctown]

Maintenance is right down, crack packs in half an hour HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE

[Jorbles]

Maintenance is right down, crack packs in half an hour HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE

I can't open packs until I get home! I will get by on what scraps you guys tell me about your packs.

[Kirian]

I wantses my new cards! My Precious'ssss... My Shinies.... My Sweets....

I got up early this morning just in case I could open packs. Of course I couldn't. Not til midnight probably.

I'd assume 23:59 Pacific time.

[Galzria]

Maintenance is right down, crack packs in half an hour HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE

Pushed an hour.

[popsofctown]

ack! Goko, provide comfort

[KingZog3]

Pushed back to end an hour later. It says 9pm CET time. So I believe that's in roughly 1 minute eastern americas/canada.

[Galzria]

Guuuuuuh

[popsofctown]

Bumped an additional hour argggggggggggg

[popsofctown]

omgomgoomg

[pingpongsam]

I learned a long time ago to under promise and over deliver. They should have said they'd have it out a good 5 hours later than they really expected to so they could do this without generating hatred or else we could all be pleasantly surprised.

[pingpongsam]

it's alive

[nkirbit]

I can't get on, unfortunately.  Won't let me log into my Bnet account

[blueblimp]

I spent all my spare gold on packs... which weren't GvG. Whoops.

And yeah, B.net seems hosed at the moment.

[Grujah]

I spent all my spare gold on packs... which weren't GvG. Whoops.

And yeah, B.net seems hosed at the moment.

Call their support, reddit says they offer one time fix if you do that.


OTOH, EU still didn't get the expansion.. will have to wait some 3 more hours. 

[Galzria]

Well, I spent all I had and came up with Legendary's for....:
Warrior, Hunter, and Rogue!

Now, which deck to build...

[Galzria]

I got an abnormal number of Gold cards it felt like.

[markusin]

I opened my free packs. Every card feels so good to have, and gets me a bit closer tio some crazy deck I want to build.

[ashersky]

14 packs:

1: Gilbin Stalker, Lost Tailstrider, Mechwarper, Unstable Portal, Crackle
2: Darkbomb, Cogmaster, Mistress of Pain, Piloted Shredder, Explosive Sheep
3: Mech-Bear-Cat, Hobgoblin, Snowchugger, Explosive Sheep, Cogmaster
4: Shrinkmeister, Unstable Portal, Flamecannon, Cobra Shot, Seal of Light
5: Clockwork Gnome, Seal of Light, Stonesplinter Trogg, Unstable Portal, Imp-losion
6: Cogmaster, Cobra Shot, Muster for Battle, Anodized Robo Cub, Spider Tank
7: Piloted Shredder, Warbot, Glaivezooka, Mech-Bear-Cat, Druid of the Fang
8: Soot Spewer, Cobra Shot, Warbot, Micro Machine, Gnomeregan Infantry
9: King of Beasts, Cogmaster, Ogre Warmaul, Force-Tank MAX, Lost Tailstrider
10: Darkbomb, Giblin Stalker, Crackle, Muster for Battle, Shrinkmeister
11: Crackle, Crackle, Piloted Shredder, Cogmaster, Dunemaul Shaman
12: Upgraded Repair Bot, Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, Ogre Warmaul, Whirling Zap-o-matic, Quartermaster
13: Mech-Bear-Cat, Antique Healbot, Druid of the Fang, Lil' Exorcist, Crackle
14: Troggzor the Earthinator, Floating Watcher, Madder Bomber, Cobra Shot, Gilbin Stalker

[popsofctown]

Well, I spent all I had and came up with Legendary's for....:
Warrior, Hunter, and Rogue!

Now, which deck to build...

Rogue Legendary is the best

[Galzria]

Well, I spent all I had and came up with Legendary's for....:
Warrior, Hunter, and Rogue!

Now, which deck to build...

Rogue Legendary is the best

If only I didn't suck so hard with Rogue. I'm trying him out, but I'm more comfortable building Hunter or Shaman decks.

[ashersky]

14 packs:

1: Gilbin Stalker, Lost Tailstrider, Mechwarper, Unstable Portal, Crackle
2: Darkbomb, Cogmaster, Mistress of Pain, Piloted Shredder, Explosive Sheep
3: Mech-Bear-Cat, Hobgoblin, Snowchugger, Explosive Sheep, Cogmaster
4: Shrinkmeister, Unstable Portal, Flamecannon, Cobra Shot, Seal of Light
5: Clockwork Gnome, Seal of Light, Stonesplinter Trogg, Unstable Portal, Imp-losion
6: Cogmaster, Cobra Shot, Muster for Battle, Anodized Robo Cub, Spider Tank
7: Piloted Shredder, Warbot, Glaivezooka, Mech-Bear-Cat, Druid of the Fang
8: Soot Spewer, Cobra Shot, Warbot, Micro Machine, Gnomeregan Infantry
9: King of Beasts, Cogmaster, Ogre Warmaul, Force-Tank MAX, Lost Tailstrider
10: Darkbomb, Giblin Stalker, Crackle, Muster for Battle, Shrinkmeister
11: Crackle, Crackle, Piloted Shredder, Cogmaster, Dunemaul Shaman
12: Upgraded Repair Bot, Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, Ogre Warmaul, Whirling Zap-o-matic, Quartermaster
13: Mech-Bear-Cat, Antique Healbot, Druid of the Fang, Lil' Exorcist, Crackle
14: Troggzor the Earthinator, Floating Watcher, Madder Bomber, Cobra Shot, Gilbin Stalker

So, I feel like I can slot Troggzor into just about every deck.

A lot of triples in these packs, no Feign Death, but not a terrible haul, I guess.

[ycz6]

The 4 drops vary in stats but they are usually formidable and help you follow up the aggressive 6-attack of the Sky Golem.

Here's all the 4-cost minions sorted by health: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=4.0?filter=stat-cost-min=4;stat-cost-max=4#text:0+9+8+2

There are some new cards on the low end, particularly Mini-Mage, Enhance-o Mechano, and Jeeves, but we also got Mechanical Yeti and Lost Tallstrider. So I'd generally agree that the 4-costs are pretty strong on average.

[ashersky]

Can't connect...

[markusin]

The 4 drops vary in stats but they are usually formidable and help you follow up the aggressive 6-attack of the Sky Golem.

Here's all the 4-cost minions sorted by health: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=4.0?filter=stat-cost-min=4;stat-cost-max=4#text:0+9+8+2

There are some new cards on the low end, particularly Mini-Mage, Enhance-o Mechano, and Jeeves, but we also got Mechanical Yeti and Lost Tallstrider. So I'd generally agree that the 4-costs are pretty strong on average.

There are also the class specific ones to consider as well.

[theory]

Mistress of Pain, Mechwarper, Warbot, Flamecannon, Piloted Shredder
Mistress of Pain, Micro Machine, Ogre Brute, Ogre Brute, Glaivezooka
Salty Dog, Salty Dog, Annoy-O-Tron, Ogre Ninja, Ship's Cannon

bleh

EDIT: just finished an arena.  Pack contained Micro Machine, Cobra Shot, Goblin Sapper, Iron Sensei, and Glaivezooka.  I count 10 dupes in 20 cards ...

[Jorbles]

The 4 drops vary in stats but they are usually formidable and help you follow up the aggressive 6-attack of the Sky Golem.

Here's all the 4-cost minions sorted by health: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=4.0?filter=stat-cost-min=4;stat-cost-max=4#text:0+9+8+2

There are some new cards on the low end, particularly Mini-Mage, Enhance-o Mechano, and Jeeves, but we also got Mechanical Yeti and Lost Tallstrider. So I'd generally agree that the 4-costs are pretty strong on average.

I think some of those low end cards you listed are going to be pretty good in certain decks. (not mini mage, that card is garbage). In a deck where you can expect to have 3 or 4 minions on the board at some point (zoo) Enhance-O will get a lot of value. Jeeves will be good I think in Paladin Divine Favour decks and maybe some other forms of aggro (again maybe Zoo?), not sure about that one, but it seems like someone will be able to work out a way to balance all that free card draw in a way that works for them.

[ycz6]

The 4 drops vary in stats but they are usually formidable and help you follow up the aggressive 6-attack of the Sky Golem.

Here's all the 4-cost minions sorted by health: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=4.0?filter=stat-cost-min=4;stat-cost-max=4#text:0+9+8+2

There are some new cards on the low end, particularly Mini-Mage, Enhance-o Mechano, and Jeeves, but we also got Mechanical Yeti and Lost Tallstrider. So I'd generally agree that the 4-costs are pretty strong on average.

There are also the class specific ones to consider as well.

Oh yeah. Here's the real list: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=4?filter=stat-cost-min=4%3Bstat-cost-max=4#text:0-4+2

[markusin]

The 4 drops vary in stats but they are usually formidable and help you follow up the aggressive 6-attack of the Sky Golem.

Here's all the 4-cost minions sorted by health: http://www.hearthhead.com/cards=4.0?filter=stat-cost-min=4;stat-cost-max=4#text:0+9+8+2

There are some new cards on the low end, particularly Mini-Mage, Enhance-o Mechano, and Jeeves, but we also got Mechanical Yeti and Lost Tallstrider. So I'd generally agree that the 4-costs are pretty strong on average.

I think some of those low end cards you listed are going to be pretty good in certain decks. (not mini mage, that card is garbage). In a deck where you can expect to have 3 or 4 minions on the board at some point (zoo) Enhance-O will get a lot of value. Jeeves will be good I think in Paladin Divine Favour decks and maybe some other forms of aggro (again maybe Zoo?), not sure about that one, but it seems like someone will be able to work out a way to balance all that free card draw in a way that works for them.

Oh, but we were talking about the 4-drops in the context of being summoned by Piloted Sky Golem's deathrattle. No battlecries are activated when dropped from a piloted mech, so Enhance-o-Mechano is just a 3/2. At the same time, I wouldn't consider Mini-mage garbage when dropped from Sky Golem. It's still a 4-attack Worgen Infiltrator due to its stealth and so you still have a good chance to attack with it.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Finally able to log in after 4 hours. At least it gave me time to start playing Dominion again and gain like 1000 rating points.

[Jorbles]

Got in and the shop was closed . I still got to open my complimentary packs though. I'll do an ashersky style light for this (no commons).

1: Illuminator, Imp-losion
2: Call Pet
3: Metal Tooth Leaper (Gold), Lil Exorcist

[Twistedarcher]

All I wanna do is play arena :/

[ashersky]

14 packs:

1: Gilbin Stalker, Lost Tailstrider, Mechwarper, Unstable Portal, Crackle
2: Darkbomb, Cogmaster, Mistress of Pain, Piloted Shredder, Explosive Sheep
3: Mech-Bear-Cat, Hobgoblin, Snowchugger, Explosive Sheep, Cogmaster
4: Shrinkmeister, Unstable Portal, Flamecannon, Cobra Shot, Seal of Light
5: Clockwork Gnome, Seal of Light, Stonesplinter Trogg, Unstable Portal, Imp-losion
6: Cogmaster, Cobra Shot, Muster for Battle, Anodized Robo Cub, Spider Tank
7: Piloted Shredder, Warbot, Glaivezooka, Mech-Bear-Cat, Druid of the Fang
8: Soot Spewer, Cobra Shot, Warbot, Micro Machine, Gnomeregan Infantry
9: King of Beasts, Cogmaster, Ogre Warmaul, Force-Tank MAX, Lost Tailstrider
10: Darkbomb, Giblin Stalker, Crackle, Muster for Battle, Shrinkmeister
11: Crackle, Crackle, Piloted Shredder, Cogmaster, Dunemaul Shaman
12: Upgraded Repair Bot, Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, Ogre Warmaul, Whirling Zap-o-matic, Quartermaster
13: Mech-Bear-Cat, Antique Healbot, Druid of the Fang, Lil' Exorcist, Crackle
14: Troggzor the Earthinator, Floating Watcher, Madder Bomber, Cobra Shot, Gilbin Stalker

7 more:

1: Darkbomb, Ogre Warmaul, Velen's Chosen, Goblin Blastmage, Recombobulator
2: Goblin Auto-Barber, Darkbomb, Lil' Exorcist, Cobra Shot, Annoy-o-Tron
3: Cobra Shot, Shieldmaiden, Giblin Stalker, Goblin Auto-Barber, Salty Dog
4: Ogre Brute, Flamecannon, Clockwork Gnome, Gnomeregan Infantry, Powermace
5: Glaivezooka, Goblin Sapper, Bomb Lobber, Seal of Light, Recombobulator
6: Cobra Shot, Gnomeregan Infantry, Mech-Bear-Cat, Micro Machine, Flamecannon
7: Floating Watcher, Floating Watcher, Druid of the Fang, Annoy-o-Tron, Siege Engine

[ashersky]

Made a quick Mech/Deathrattle Zoo deck to play around.

I included the 4/4 gain 2/2 when you take damage on your turn dudes, and they are pretty strong so far.

[markusin]

Got in and the shop was closed . I still got to open my complimentary packs though. I'll do an ashersky style light for this (no commons).

Sweet, shop is back online. I was playing Civilization: Beyond Earth while it was down.

[KingZog3]

Got in and the shop was closed . I still got to open my complimentary packs though. I'll do an ashersky style light for this (no commons).

Sweet, shop is back online. I was playing Civilization: Beyond Earth while it was down.

It reopened around 1am eastern US time.

[popsofctown]

I just accidentally bought 50 base packs

fuck shit shit fuck fuck fuck fuck shit fuck shit fuck damn damn

[KingZog3]

I just accidentally bought 50 base packs

fuck shit shit fuck fuck fuck fuck shit fuck shit fuck damn damn

Someone said somewhere they are allowing a one time take back or something. You're not the first to do this. But really, how hard is it to buy the right packs?

[popsofctown]

The problem is that the UI defaults the choice to base packs before you choose the amounts.  It's like if you went to the store to by beer cans, and you told the clerk that's what you wanted, and the clerk said, "ok, how many bud lights do you want?" and you say forty.

It was frustratig to keep spamming the store trying to get packs because most of the time it failed because the store was down.  i managed to select gvg every other time.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Is it possible to choose a large number of packs without repeatedly clicking?

[popsofctown]

There's lots of ergonomic factors contributing to make it not a hard mistake to make

50 pack bundle is one click, i dunno what HME is talking about.

Apparently streamers like trump have made the mistake on stream

[nkirbit]

Is it possible to choose a large number of packs without repeatedly clicking?

Yes.  If you click in the leftmost icon, the 1 pack 100 gold icon, it'll give you the option to type in a number.

[popsofctown]

i bought the packs with cash

[nkirbit]

That's a bummer, hopefully it will get changed for you.  Do you think they should just have a confirmation screen where it says, "You are buying 50 classic packs" or something like that?  The fact that so many people are making this mistake means that it's probably not a good enough system as is.

[popsofctown]

That's a bummer, hopefully it will get changed for you.  Do you think they should just have a confirmation screen where it says, "You are buying 50 classic packs" or something like that?  The fact that so many people are making this mistake means that it's probably not a good enough system as is.

The core issue is that clicking "Shop" selects a product.  Clicking a button that says "I want to buy something" shouldn't select a product as if the button means "I want to buy something, classic packs".  Defaults are useful if you're picking out a color scheme for a menu that can be changed at will whenever, defaults are not useful for funneling an irreversible purhcase.

The normal store experience is "Welcome to store -> What type of item would you like to buy? -> How many of that item would you like to buy? -> Confirm".  We cognitively expect that procedure and when step two is omitted unceremoniously it's easy to miss.

[popsofctown]

It's not even the best default...  if you walk into a comic book shop and ask for magic packs, 99% of the time they will tell you that you have options and the other 1% of the time they'll hand you packs from the most recent expansion

[popsofctown]

My support ticket has been answered already.  They mentioned amaz making the same mistake on stream and said they'll reset my account to the moment before the bad purchase.  They can only do this once, apparently, and never ever again in the history of my account.  I hope they fix the ergonomics issue because I think I could make the same mistake again.

Until the reset hits any gold earned or matches i win doesn't count.  I guess i'll check and see if it's happened yet.

[popsofctown]

My account is suspended, can't log in.

I'm temporarily banned.  They said it could take 5-10 days

Guess there's lots of goko in my future

[Galzria]

Amongst the many flaws in their shop system, of the two packs selectable, one has shiny blue writing in front of it, and the other has nothing - it's just the card backs.

The shiny blue lettering that draws your eye and has "Oh, pick me!" written all over it, says "Good for beginning players" (or something similar). It's the Basic Packs!

The plain, nondescript packs that have absolutely nothing to indicate they're special? Yeah, THOSE are the new GvG cards.

Generally, when one releases a new product, they give IT the shiny bells and whistles, not the old stuff...

[Jorbles]

1: Illuminator, Imp-losion
2: Call Pet
3: Metal Tooth Leaper (Gold), Lil Exorcist

4: Iron Sensei
5: One-Eyed Cheat
6: Muster
7: Vitality Totem
8: Goblin Blastmage
9: Cobalt Guardian
10: Target Dummy, Enhance-O Mechano, Goblin Sapper
11: Soot Spewer
12: Screwjank Clunker
13: Feign Death, King of Beasts (Gold), Gnomish Experimenter
14: Light Bomb
15: Goblin Blastmage, Recombobulator
16: Screwjunk Clunker, Ogre Ninja

I crafted Troggzor after not opening him (or any Legendary )

Overall, I got the cards for a MechaMage deck. So far it's good. I can say that those Goblin Blastmages are spectacular. There's lots of sticky mechs (Annoyer, Harvest, Spider Tank) and they all lead really well into face blasts.

[Titandrake]

Free pack 1: Gaslowe, Screwjank Clunker, Warbot, Gnomeregan Infantry, Burly Rockjaw Trogg
Free pack 2: Powermace, Ship's Cannon, Puddlestomper, Explosive Sheep, Salty Dog
Free pack 3: Ogre Ninja (gold), Jeeves, Screwjank Clunker, Scarlet Purifier, Mechwarper

Bought 10 packs.
Pack 1: One-eyed Cheat, Tinker's Sharpsword Oil, Floating Watcher, Glaivezooka, Flamecannon
Pack 2: Call Pet (gold), Muster for Battle, Shrinkmeister, Floating Watcher, Ogre Brute
Pack 3: Call Pet, Force-Tank MAX, Glaivezooka, Anodized Robo Cub, Seal of Light
Pack 4: Powermace, Salty Dog, Seal of Light, Anodized Robo Cub, Snowchugger
Pack 5: Coghammer, Goblin Blastmage, Flamecannon, Seal of Light, Gilblin Stalker
Pack 6: Iron Sensei, Mechwarper, Annoy-o-Tron, Druid of the Fang, Salty Dog
Pack 7: Mistress of Pain, Annoy-o-Tron, Force-Tank MAX, Darkbomb, Spider Tank
Pack 8: Call Pet, Cogmaster, Whirling Zap-o-matic, Annoy-o-Tron, Micro Machine
Pack 9: Scarlet Purifier, Gilblin Stalker, Mechwarper, Druid of the Fang, Shielded Minibot
Pack 10: Anima Golem, Mech-Bear Cat, Floating Watcher, Flying Machine, Micro Machine

Really nice haul from the free packs, then it went downhill kind of fast.

[popsofctown]

At least you didn't get the Call Pet/commons as your very last pack, that'd be a downer

[Grujah]

My account is suspended, can't log in.

I'm temporarily banned.  They said it could take 5-10 days

Guess there's lots of goko in my future

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2oqygb/battlenet_support_staff_are_ignoring_an_issue/

Uh, yeah, it might take a bit more.

[blueblimp]

I just accidentally bought 50 base packs

fuck shit shit fuck fuck fuck fuck shit fuck shit fuck damn damn

Someone said somewhere they are allowing a one time take back or something. You're not the first to do this. But really, how hard is it to buy the right packs?

I did this also and here's my best explanation. (I only did it with like 14 packs and got a Grom out of one, which I was missing, so I didn't bother trying to get them switched.) There are a few things going on.

First: habit. If you buy packs often, the steps go: 1. Click shop. 2. Select quantity. 3. Buy.

Select pack type isn't a step in there, because previously there weren't any pack types. Habit is very powerful and subconscious, so it may well carry you through the buying process without you noticing that a new step is required. Habits are sticky, so even if you buy GvG packs correctly once, you may coast through purely on habit the next time and get the wrong kind.

But why wouldn't people pay conscious attention to pack type? That brings us to...

Second: misdirection. Picking quantity of packs to buy with gold involves arithmetic, which requires conscious processing. Even for buying packs with money, you still need to decide how many you want. It's only possible to consciously think about a single thing at once, so because you're thinking about quantity, you're NOT thinking about pack type.

Third: priming. A defense against habits is to notice that something "feels wrong" and direct your conscious attention to figure out why. But in this case, there were a couple things making the situation feel right. When you log in, you get a GvG banner, putting it in your mind. A lot of streamers also ran into trouble when returning to buy more packs after opening some already, which makes sense partly because they were already in a GvG mindset.

In conclusion, a lot of it comes down to performing the buying process subconsciously. Having the mistake be important actually doesn't matter that much as far as preventing it from happening. And as mistakes go, this one is fairly minor. If you want to read a vaguely related article, check out: article (edit: warning: disturbing content).

[pacovf]

article.

Way to go to set the mood, blueblimp.

I had read the article before. To other people, if you don't want to feel bad for the rest of your day (especially if you are a parent), I don't think you want to read an article about dead babies.

[Jorbles]

Jeeves will be good I think in Paladin Divine Favour decks and maybe some other forms of aggro (again maybe Zoo?), not sure about that one, but it seems like someone will be able to work out a way to balance all that free card draw in a way that works for them.

Trump has worked it out. It's a Mage-based Zoo deck.

http://www.trumpfans.com/decks/

He's still playing around with it, but it appears to be a lot like Zoo, but with cheap mage cards and spells. Edit: Jeeves is used to keep the cheap cards plentiful.

[blueblimp]

article.

Way to go to set the mood, blueblimp.

I had read the article before. To other people, if you don't want to feel bad for the rest of your day (especially if you are a parent), I don't think you want to read an article about dead babies.

Yeah I should probably put a warning on that, my bad. Was just intended to reinforce that people can suffer lapses of attention for simple things even with severe consequences.

[popsofctown]

reset came through, thank god.  Rebought the packs clicking gvg packs 10 times, looking at the gear on the back, meditating on the gears on the backs, reading the words "goblin vs. gnomes" in the purchase description


Still hoping not to get wisps when i crack them

[Jorbles]

reset came through, thank god.  Rebought the packs clicking gvg packs 10 times, looking at the gear on the back, meditating on the gears on the backs, reading the words "goblin vs. gnomes" in the purchase description


Still hoping not to get wisps when i crack them

I hope your first pack has 5 Dark Wispers for comedic effect. (plus you'd get so much dust so it wouldn't even be bad)

[KingZog3]

reset came through, thank god.  Rebought the packs clicking gvg packs 10 times, looking at the gear on the back, meditating on the gears on the backs, reading the words "goblin vs. gnomes" in the purchase description


Still hoping not to get wisps when i crack them

I hope your first pack has 5 Dark Wispers for comedic effect. (plus you'd get so much dust so it wouldn't even be bad)

I see other people getting tons of legendaries. All I got of significance so far is 2 coghammers. Plus some basic mech deck commons.

[markusin]

Ahah, I just saw a Mage opponent in arena play Neptulon on turn 4 through Unstable Portal. I got crushed badly. My opponent even drew the warleader.

[Awaclus]

I opened 4 Flying Machines from my 3 packs. 

[nkirbit]

I got a legendary..... on my Europe account   I opened like 5 packs there and 20 or so in NA, but got the legendary in the wrong place .

[blueblimp]

Priest control mirrors were pretty weird pre-GvG and are even weirder now. Shrinkmeister really shakes things up.

[Jorbles]

Priest control mirrors were pretty weird pre-GvG and are even weirder now. Shrinkmeister really shakes things up.

I just watched a friend of mine steal a Sunwalker with Shrinkmeister, Cabal Shadow Priest. It was disgusting.

[Titandrake]

Priest control mirrors were pretty weird pre-GvG and are even weirder now. Shrinkmeister really shakes things up.

I just watched a friend of mine steal a Sunwalker with Shrinkmeister, Cabal Shadow Priest. It was disgusting.

I had a Mechanical Yeti stolen by Shrinkmeister + Cabal Shadow Priest in arena. Needless to say, I lost that game.

[ashersky]

New discussion topic: what legendary to craft in GvG?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12201

[markusin]

Jeeves will be good I think in Paladin Divine Favour decks and maybe some other forms of aggro (again maybe Zoo?), not sure about that one, but it seems like someone will be able to work out a way to balance all that free card draw in a way that works for them.

Trump has worked it out. It's a Mage-based Zoo deck.

http://www.trumpfans.com/decks/

He's still playing around with it, but it appears to be a lot like Zoo, but with cheap mage cards and spells. Edit: Jeeves is used to keep the cheap cards plentiful.

How strong is that deck? It inspired me to make a Shaman variant that I want to build.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/135698-aggro-mech-shaman

I'd like to experiment with Hobgoblin here too. These 1-attack minions are decent to good by themselves. Only 1 Powermace to ensure there are no double weapon hands. Bloodlust and Enhance-o push you to the win condition. Mech warper is used for tempo instead of Sorceror's Apprentice.

[Jorbles]

Jeeves will be good I think in Paladin Divine Favour decks and maybe some other forms of aggro (again maybe Zoo?), not sure about that one, but it seems like someone will be able to work out a way to balance all that free card draw in a way that works for them.

Trump has worked it out. It's a Mage-based Zoo deck.

http://www.trumpfans.com/decks/

He's still playing around with it, but it appears to be a lot like Zoo, but with cheap mage cards and spells. Edit: Jeeves is used to keep the cheap cards plentiful.

How strong is that deck? It inspired me to make a Shaman variant that I want to build.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/135698-aggro-mech-shaman

I'd like to experiment with Hobgoblin here too. These 1-attack minions are decent to good by themselves. Only 1 Powermace to ensure there are no double weapon hands. Bloodlust and Enhance-o push you to the win condition. Mech warper is used for tempo instead of Sorceror's Apprentice.

It looked pretty strong winning every game I saw it play, but he was playing at the 6-10 level as he hadn't played much ranked yet this month. He commented that he'd heard a Rogue variant was even better, but he didn't go into details about it. My guess is that it would be an aggressive Miracle variant with Jeeves replacing Gadgetzan.

[markusin]

Jeeves will be good I think in Paladin Divine Favour decks and maybe some other forms of aggro (again maybe Zoo?), not sure about that one, but it seems like someone will be able to work out a way to balance all that free card draw in a way that works for them.

Trump has worked it out. It's a Mage-based Zoo deck.

http://www.trumpfans.com/decks/

He's still playing around with it, but it appears to be a lot like Zoo, but with cheap mage cards and spells. Edit: Jeeves is used to keep the cheap cards plentiful.

How strong is that deck? It inspired me to make a Shaman variant that I want to build.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/135698-aggro-mech-shaman

I'd like to experiment with Hobgoblin here too. These 1-attack minions are decent to good by themselves. Only 1 Powermace to ensure there are no double weapon hands. Bloodlust and Enhance-o push you to the win condition. Mech warper is used for tempo instead of Sorceror's Apprentice.

It looked pretty strong winning every game I saw it play, but he was playing at the 6-10 level as he hadn't played much ranked yet this month. He commented that he'd heard a Rogue variant was even better, but he didn't go into details about it. My guess is that it would be an aggressive Miracle variant with Jeeves replacing Gadgetzan.

A strong Rogue variant makes sense considering the strength of their cheap spells.

Level 6-10 is still better than my ladder record, but I don't play ladder very seriously.

[Galzria]

Jeeves will be good I think in Paladin Divine Favour decks and maybe some other forms of aggro (again maybe Zoo?), not sure about that one, but it seems like someone will be able to work out a way to balance all that free card draw in a way that works for them.

Trump has worked it out. It's a Mage-based Zoo deck.

http://www.trumpfans.com/decks/

He's still playing around with it, but it appears to be a lot like Zoo, but with cheap mage cards and spells. Edit: Jeeves is used to keep the cheap cards plentiful.

How strong is that deck? It inspired me to make a Shaman variant that I want to build.

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/135698-aggro-mech-shaman

I'd like to experiment with Hobgoblin here too. These 1-attack minions are decent to good by themselves. Only 1 Powermace to ensure there are no double weapon hands. Bloodlust and Enhance-o push you to the win condition. Mech warper is used for tempo instead of Sorceror's Apprentice.

It looked pretty strong winning every game I saw it play, but he was playing at the 6-10 level as he hadn't played much ranked yet this month. He commented that he'd heard a Rogue variant was even better, but he didn't go into details about it. My guess is that it would be an aggressive Miracle variant with Jeeves replacing Gadgetzan.

It's gaining popularity quickly. I just played it, and while I won, it was a beast. I was fighting board control the entire game, down 30 HP to 5 HP on round 10. My Armorsmith, along with the "plinky" nature of the Zoo deck saved me.

That, and my opponent probably felt in dominating control up 30/15, when I had an empty board on T6, and he had Jeeves out hidden behind an 0/2 Taunts with a freeze minion in play. When I doubled out on Acolyte of Pain, he skipped them and continued to Face. The following turn was the aforementioned Armorsmith, and 2 Amani Berserkers Task Masters (AoP now 3/2, and two new cards to hand, and two Armor bonus). Turn 9 with Leeroy + Kor'Kron (he had a full board of little power minions) was fun as well.

He resigned up 13/5, after drawing my Juggernaut's Mine.

The deck was really strong though. I'm not sold on the Unstable Portals with that many low cost minions though. The draw was impressive, the ability to lock down weapon users was strong, and there was enough cheap taunt to hide behind to make the engine start clicking.

[Galzria]

I'm considering dropping Azure Drake for Siege Engine. The Draw is nice on AD, but the Spell Damage isn't a huge boost for my deck, and at a 4/4 5 drop... meh.

SE gives me a 5/5 5 drop, and running two Armorsmiths can chain massively with it.

[Galzria]

I'm considering dropping Azure Drake for Siege Engine. The Draw is nice on AD, but the Spell Damage isn't a huge boost for my deck, and at a 4/4 5 drop... meh.

SE gives me a 5/5 5 drop, and running two Armorsmiths can chain massively with it.

Bwahaha.

I played this out in my next ranked game with a few more tweaks, and hit the prefect storm for the deck.

Endgame on T7, 25 Life left, 27 Armor.

[Jorbles]

The deck was really strong though. I'm not sold on the Unstable Portals with that many low cost minions though. The draw was impressive, the ability to lock down weapon users was strong, and there was enough cheap taunt to hide behind to make the engine start clicking.

I think Unstable Portal is kindof a broken card, and essential in Mage right now. Think about it this way:
8.5% of the time you get screwed and get a 0-1 drop. This is bad, but you still get a creature you just overpaid for it.
14.5% of the time you get a 2 drop, which is probably not great, but you still got a 2 drop for 2.
14.5% of the time you get a 3 drop, which you get to play ahead of curve, but you don't get to pick it. There's some bad options here, but on average this is good.
62.5% of the time you get a 4+ drop which you get to play 3 turns early. Yes, some of these cards will be bad, but 3 turns early means even a Priestess of Lelune or a Nightblade is starting to look really good. And when you get a good card (a Kel'Thuzad, a Ragnaros, a Grommosh, a Ysera) you get to play it so early that it can just win you the game.

Edit: Source

[HiveMindEmulator]

I'm considering dropping Azure Drake for Siege Engine. The Draw is nice on AD, but the Spell Damage isn't a huge boost for my deck, and at a 4/4 5 drop... meh.

SE gives me a 5/5 5 drop, and running two Armorsmiths can chain massively with it.

I don't know the rest of your deck, but probably. Azure Drake is better if you want to get through your deck faster, but if your plan is to just prolong the game until they take the mine damage + Grommash, then the draw is not so important, and Acolyte + Shield Block is probably already enough.

[ashersky]

Had an opponent's Shredder drop a Lorewalker Cho yesterday.

That was funny.

[ycz6]

I had an Arena deck with Sneed's Old Shredder yesterday. It went 4-3, I only got to play the Shredder once, and it got Polymorphed. Life is hard.

[pingpongsam]

Had a shredder deck that actually dropped a cairns for the win. Didn't see the guy for the rest of the run, though.

[markusin]

Earlier today, I was playing a Hunter in casual mode who played Feign Death on an Explosive Sheep. That does 2 damage to all minions, including the sheep. The sheep then dies and does another 2 damage to all minions. There was also a Sylvanas on the field, but everything was dead by the time the dust settled.

Control Hunter just might become real. Imagine if Gahz'rilla was in play too.

[KingZog3]

Earlier today, I was playing a Hunter in casual mode who played Feign Death on an Explosive Sheep. That does 2 damage to all minions, including the sheep. The sheep then dies and does another 2 damage to all minions. There was also a Sylvanas on the field, but everything was dead by the time the dust settled.

Control Hunter just might become real. Imagine if Gahz'rilla was in play too.

It's ok, but that's like a 2 card consecration. Sure it combos, but if you didn't kill Gahz rilla when it came out you are in a bad spot anyway.

[markusin]

Earlier today, I was playing a Hunter in casual mode who played Feign Death on an Explosive Sheep. That does 2 damage to all minions, including the sheep. The sheep then dies and does another 2 damage to all minions. There was also a Sylvanas on the field, but everything was dead by the time the dust settled.

Control Hunter just might become real. Imagine if Gahz'rilla was in play too.

It's ok, but that's like a 2 card consecration. Sure it combos, but if you didn't kill Gahz rilla when it came out you are in a bad spot anyway.

More like a 2 card Flamestrike, staggered even to help kill Spectral Spiders and whatnot. I don't know. I just thought it was a cool interaction.

Edit: corrected typo on "Spectral".

[Awaclus]

Earlier today, I was playing a Hunter in casual mode who played Feign Death on an Explosive Sheep. That does 2 damage to all minions, including the sheep. The sheep then dies and does another 2 damage to all minions. There was also a Sylvanas on the field, but everything was dead by the time the dust settled.

Control Hunter just might become real. Imagine if Gahz'rilla was in play too.

It's ok, but that's like a 2 card consecration. Sure it combos, but if you didn't kill Gahz rilla when it came out you are in a bad spot anyway.

It's more like a 2 card 2 consecrations.

[KingZog3]

Earlier today, I was playing a Hunter in casual mode who played Feign Death on an Explosive Sheep. That does 2 damage to all minions, including the sheep. The sheep then dies and does another 2 damage to all minions. There was also a Sylvanas on the field, but everything was dead by the time the dust settled.

Control Hunter just might become real. Imagine if Gahz'rilla was in play too.

It's ok, but that's like a 2 card consecration. Sure it combos, but if you didn't kill Gahz rilla when it came out you are in a bad spot anyway.

More like a 2 card Flamestrike, staggered even to help kill Spectral Spiders and whatnot. I don't know. I just thought it was a cool interaction.

Edit: corrected typo on "Spectral".

Oh right, it's a flamestrike.

[Kirian]

Earlier today, I was playing a Hunter in casual mode who played Feign Death on an Explosive Sheep. That does 2 damage to all minions, including the sheep. The sheep then dies and does another 2 damage to all minions. There was also a Sylvanas on the field, but everything was dead by the time the dust settled.

Control Hunter just might become real. Imagine if Gahz'rilla was in play too.

It's ok, but that's like a 2 card consecration. Sure it combos, but if you didn't kill Gahz rilla when it came out you are in a bad spot anyway.

It's more like a 2 card 2 consecrations.

It's more like a Laboratory with a bonus Buy, but that only attacks minions and can't be a trump card.  Bingo!

[popsofctown]

i tried out a feign death control thing, i was unimpressed

[KingZog3]

i tried out a feign death control thing, i was unimpressed

I don't have it, and I haven't seen it in action yet. But just from my thinking, I think it's very specific. Reincarnate kind of works in Shaman because Shaman is slow anyway and has lots of ways to use his little guys to survive until he can use Reincarnate on a Sylvannas or something. Even then, full reincarnate decks aren't that strong anyway, so Feign Death is really just a tech card that I don't feel fits in Hunter decks, even if they are control decks.

[popsofctown]

No I disagree with that too, I think if you throw it into an aggressive undertaker zoo it'll do fine

[KingZog3]

I feel it'll be a win more in aggro. If you don't heave deathrattles on the board it'll be a dead draw. You can lose games because you need that last bit of damage but draw Feign Death instead.

[popsofctown]

I feel it'll be a win more in aggro. If you don't heave deathrattles on the board it'll be a dead draw. You can lose games because you need that last bit of damage but draw Feign Death instead.

The deathrattles don't have to be on the board, they just have to be in your hand.  Just playing it on a Leper Gnome gets you two damage for 2 mana, which is sometimes what Explosive Trap's worst case scenario use turns out to be.

If you have no other cards in hand and no other cards on board, yeah, it's pretty bad to topdeck.  But if you play a littler different that won't happen, you can activate hero power a little bit extra to make sure you have something in hand for a feign death topdeck.

[Titandrake]

Earlier today, I was playing a Hunter in casual mode who played Feign Death on an Explosive Sheep. That does 2 damage to all minions, including the sheep. The sheep then dies and does another 2 damage to all minions. There was also a Sylvanas on the field, but everything was dead by the time the dust settled.

Control Hunter just might become real. Imagine if Gahz'rilla was in play too.

It's ok, but that's like a 2 card consecration. Sure it combos, but if you didn't kill Gahz rilla when it came out you are in a bad spot anyway.

More like a 2 card Flamestrike, staggered even to help kill Spectral Spiders and whatnot. I don't know. I just thought it was a cool interaction.

Edit: corrected typo on "Spectral".

Oh right, it's a flamestrike.

It's more like Hunter's version of Auchenai-Circle if anything. Both 2 cards, both cost 4 total, both do 4 damage to every minion.

[HiveMindEmulator]

^But Soulpriest and Circle each have other uses. Explosive Sheep seems not that useful on its own for Hunter.

[Jorbles]

^But Soulpriest and Circle each have other uses. Explosive Sheep seems not that useful on its own for Hunter.

It's not even a beast like it's polymorphed cousins.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I just did Sylvanas 2x Feign death. So satisfying. Almost makes up for like the 8 straight losses to get to this point...

[Titandrake]

Feign Death has other uses too. So does Explosive Sheep: if your Hunter deck is going to run a 2 card board-clear combo it's probably controllish enough to be okay with Sheep by itself. I'd say Soulpriest:Feign Death::Circle:Explosive Sheep in this comparison.

With Multishot, Explosive Shot, and Explosive Trap as potential non-comboed board clears, it's probably less important than Auchenai-Circle is for Priest, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it if control Hunter ever becomes a thing. (I don't think it will, aggro/midrange Hunter still feel stronger, but I could be wrong.)

[Kirian]

OK, so, let me just say this:

Mage + Duplicate + Echo of Medivh is sickening.

[Jorbles]

OK, so, let me just say this:

Mage + Duplicate + Echo of Medivh is sickening.

Day9 made a hilarious deck featuring those cards plus Mountain and Molten Giants. There were games where he'd play like 12 giants.

[blueblimp]

I think the card I misjudged most from this expansion was Shieldmaiden. I've been playing some Control Warrior recently and it has taught me why that card is auto-include double in every such deck. The amount of healing potential you have between Shield Blocks and Shieldmaidens is just insane and very helpful against any sort of aggro. Having a second activator for Shield Slam is often useful. And the 5/5 body is substantial enough to draw out serious removal from control decks. The 6 mana cost is not such a big deal after all, since Control Warrior likes to stall anyway, and the healing helps you avoid dying to face rush.

[popsofctown]

Recombobulator is getting slept on hard, I think.  It's like a panda that doesn't cost mana for the replay (but randomly fizzles sometimes)

Cenarius->Innervate->Recombobulate is pretty interesting.  Often Hand of Might, sometimes Malganis, Jaraxxus, Thermaplugg, or an x/12 dragon.

[HiveMindEmulator]

^It also combos with Shadow Madness better than Panda, is a good way to get something more from your 3/1 post-circle Soulpriest, and can give you a real 6-drop body on your Cabal.

[Jorbles]

Recombobulator is getting slept on hard, I think.  It's like a panda that doesn't cost mana for the replay (but randomly fizzles sometimes)

Cenarius->Innervate->Recombobulate is pretty interesting.  Often Hand of Might, sometimes Malganis, Jaraxxus, Thermaplugg, or an x/12 dragon.

I don't feel that comparison is totally fair, as it doesn't give the same Battlecry effect again, but I do think Recombobulator can be really strong. I think it's best in decks with either low statted high cost minions (usually with battlecries to justify the cost) to turn them into better things or high health things that will probably take some damage where you can use the Recombobulate as a heal. (Use your Yeti to kill a 4/4 then recombobulate it).

[popsofctown]

Recombobulator is getting slept on hard, I think.  It's like a panda that doesn't cost mana for the replay (but randomly fizzles sometimes)

Cenarius->Innervate->Recombobulate is pretty interesting.  Often Hand of Might, sometimes Malganis, Jaraxxus, Thermaplugg, or an x/12 dragon.

I don't feel that comparison is totally fair, as it doesn't give the same Battlecry effect again, but I do think Recombobulator can be really strong. I think it's best in decks with either low statted high cost minions (usually with battlecries to justify the cost) to turn them into better things or high health things that will probably take some damage where you can use the Recombobulate as a heal. (Use your Yeti to kill a 4/4 then recombobulate it).

Maybe I should specify that in an unspecialized context like arena, it's like a panda that randomly fizzles.  If you recombobulate a novice engineer into an Amani Beserker, all the value that you expect to pay 2 mana for is there.  If your recombobulate into owl, some of the value is lost to the battlecry, that's the fizzle.

In a specialized context, which is kinda what panda is used for in constructed for what small amount of the time it does get used, recombobulating an Sunfury Protector into an Amani Beserker isn't as good as pandaing it because your deck specifically wants the Sunfury 2 mana effect more than the Amani 2 mana effect because you designed it with ancient watchers and Molten Giants or what have you.  In arena there's no reason to assume Sunfury is any better than a non-battlecry minion though.

[nkirbit]

Recombobulator is also decent against undertaker.

[Jorbles]

Recombobulator is also decent against undertaker.

How so?

[Titandrake]

Recombobulator is also decent against undertaker.

How so?

Most 1 drops are terrible so it's basically like a silence. Not amazing, but it's okay.

[Jorbles]

Recombobulator is also decent against undertaker.

How so?

Most 1 drops are terrible so it's basically like a silence. Not amazing, but it's okay.

But it only works on friendly minions.

[nkirbit]

Oh, oops, didn't realize the friendly part.  Not relevant against undertaker other than being a 2 mana 3/2.

[ycz6]

Recombobulator would be far and away the best card in the game if it worked on opposing minions

[ashersky]

Recombobulator would be far and away the best card in the game if it worked on opposing minions

Which means there will be a Legendary that does that just at some point.

[ashersky]

Can someone tell me how Goblin Experimenter is useful?

[ycz6]

It's a solid 2-drop body for 3 mana which draws a card. Compare to Gnomish Inventor, which is an okay 3-drop body for 4 mana which draws a card.

[KingZog3]

Can someone tell me how Goblin Experimenter is useful?

In spell heavy decks, it draws you a card. 3 mana 3/2 draw a card is amazing. And it's also not as bad as you think in arena. Sure, you get a chicken, but it's still something. And if tou drafted spells there is a chance it's amazing.

But it's so risky you'd never run it in constructed. It's only ever played if you get two much worse choices in arena.

[Jorbles]

Can someone tell me how Goblin Gnomish Experimenter is useful?

In spell heavy decks, it draws you a card. 3 mana 3/2 draw a card is amazing. And it's also not as bad as you think in arena. Sure, you get a chicken, but it's still something. And if tou drafted spells there is a chance it's amazing.

But it's so risky you'd never run it in constructed. It's only ever played if you get two much worse choices in arena.

I feel like I really want it to be better than it is. I wish the chicken cost 0 mana because then it would be either great or a razorfen hunter.

[nkirbit]

Recombobulator would be far and away the best card in the game if it worked on opposing minions

Which means there will be a Legendary that does that just at some point.

Haha, well, it was Tinkmaster, then they decided tinkmaster was too good so nerfed it.

[popsofctown]

Just had my first flame leviathan experience.  I had nothing but 2 health minions on board because i was playing around flamestrike, not conseecration (had more in hand, but not enough to rebuild after a FREE consecration)

[markusin]

While playing around with a Jeeves Warlock zoo deck, I realized that zoo decks have very little reason to run Soulfire instead of Power Overwhelming now that Soulfire costs 1 mana. Zoo usually has an expendable Spectral Spider or a Nerubian Egg as a target for P. Overwhelming. Losing your weakest minion on the board seems like it's often better than discarding a random card from your hand, and zoo usually has stuff on the board in the first place. I guess there are decks that can run both, but having no Soulfires means you never have to worry about tough Doomguard + Soulfire in hand decisions.

Handlock is different because they're okay with having a mostly empty board or one with just Ancient Watcher, so they have reason to prefer Soulfire. Now there's Dark Bomb though.

[Jorbles]

While playing around with a Jeeves Warlock zoo deck, I realized that zoo decks have very little reason to run Soulfire instead of Power Overwhelming now that Soulfire costs 1 mana. Zoo usually has an expendable Spectral Spider or a Nerubian Egg as a target for P. Overwhelming. Losing your weakest minion on the board seems like it's often better than discarding a random card from your hand, and zoo usually has stuff on the board in the first place. I guess there are decks that can run both, but having no Soulfires means you never have to worry about tough Doomguard + Soulfire in hand decisions.

Handlock is different because they're okay with having a mostly empty board or one with just Ancient Watcher, so they have reason to prefer Soulfire. Now there's Dark Bomb though.

I actually took Egg, Soulfire and Power Overwhelming out of my Zoo deck and its win rate went up. GvG cards I use in it are Clockwork Gnome, Yeti, Enhance-O, Imp-Plosion and Dark Bomb. Aside from that it's got your normal Zoo-ish stuff (Undertaker, Harvest, Knife Juggler, Haunted Creeper, Defender, etc.)

[markusin]

While playing around with a Jeeves Warlock zoo deck, I realized that zoo decks have very little reason to run Soulfire instead of Power Overwhelming now that Soulfire costs 1 mana. Zoo usually has an expendable Spectral Spider or a Nerubian Egg as a target for P. Overwhelming. Losing your weakest minion on the board seems like it's often better than discarding a random card from your hand, and zoo usually has stuff on the board in the first place. I guess there are decks that can run both, but having no Soulfires means you never have to worry about tough Doomguard + Soulfire in hand decisions.

Handlock is different because they're okay with having a mostly empty board or one with just Ancient Watcher, so they have reason to prefer Soulfire. Now there's Dark Bomb though.

I actually took Egg, Soulfire and Power Overwhelming out of my Zoo deck and its win rate went up. GvG cards I use in it are Clockwork Gnome, Yeti, Enhance-O, Imp-Plosion and Dark Bomb. Aside from that it's got your normal Zoo-ish stuff (Undertaker, Harvest, Knife Juggler, Haunted Creeper, Defender, etc.)

That's something to consider. Thing is my deck is quite different from the pre-GvG zoo decks. The only cards I have above 2 mana right now are 2 Jeeves, 1 Hobgoblin, 1 Enhance-o, 1 Doomguard, and 1 Sea Giant. None of that Abusive Sarge or Defender or Dark Iron stuff. Actually my deck's best matchup is against that kind of zoo.  I'm thinking of swapping the enhance-o for something else, maybe Void Terror. Even with a full board, the inconsistency of Enhance-o's effect hurts its utility somewhat. AOE like Brawl, Equality, Explosive Trap from Scientist, and Doomsayer+Frost Nova is my biggest weakness right now, so I'm hoping Egg can help there.

[KingZog3]

I kept egg in, but took argus out. Argus really sucks a lot of the time, unless you're already doing well as zoo.

[ashersky]

I've been having fun when this works out as Pally:

T3: Sword of Justice
T4: Muster for Battle
T5: Quartermaster

[shraeye]

I kept egg in, but took argus out. Argus really sucks a lot of the time, unless you're already doing well as zoo.

I don't know; maybe I run a different zoo (read: budget) but my Argus does work.  I can force people to make bad trades, protect my real damage dealers.  Maybe it's an issue of me playing in the crappy tiers; one day, I'll invest some time and actually see how far I can push on ladder instead of seeing how far 12 games/month gets me.

[KingZog3]

I kept egg in, but took argus out. Argus really sucks a lot of the time, unless you're already doing well as zoo.

I don't know; maybe I run a different zoo (read: budget) but my Argus does work.  I can force people to make bad trades, protect my real damage dealers.  Maybe it's an issue of me playing in the crappy tiers; one day, I'll invest some time and actually see how far I can push on ladder instead of seeing how far 12 games/month gets me.

My zoo deck is essentially undertaker, deathrattle, mechwarper + mechs and all the minions are annoting and sticky. I even only have 1 doom guard, so i don't really need to worry about discard .it works really well.

[markusin]

I kept egg in, but took argus out. Argus really sucks a lot of the time, unless you're already doing well as zoo.

I don't know; maybe I run a different zoo (read: budget) but my Argus does work.  I can force people to make bad trades, protect my real damage dealers.  Maybe it's an issue of me playing in the crappy tiers; one day, I'll invest some time and actually see how far I can push on ladder instead of seeing how far 12 games/month gets me.

My zoo deck is essentially undertaker, deathrattle, mechwarper + mechs and all the minions are annoting and sticky. I even only have 1 doom guard, so i don't really need to worry about discard .it works really well.

I basically have the same thing with my Jeeves deck, but it's stalling at rank 10. Too many unfavourable matchups there. Lots of control Warriors and Hunters with early weapons. Even a few freeze mages, but the eggs help there quite a bit.

[markusin]

All the Control Warriors seem to be running Baron Geddon now. My super low curve deck just can't deal with that on top of all the weapons, Belchers, and Brawl. Now I want to try a stickier, higher curve Warlock Mech deck.

[popsofctown]

If you can't stay ahead enough to play argus, that would mean the meta is just not accepting of zoo right now

[markusin]

Has anyone here tried out Echo of Medihv? Can it work in a Mech Mage deck, or is it only good in those stall decks with giants, Belchers, and Antique Healbots?

[KingZog3]

Echo is better than it looks. I've only tried it in arena though, so I haven't experimented with it much yet.

[markusin]

Echo is better than it looks. I've only tried it in arena though, so I haven't experimented with it much yet.

This goes back to what I was saying in the other thread about there being so many epics that are desirable to craft. I've played around with a bunch of Mech decks, and I've noticed that they can take the board early against passive control decks. Playing an Echo right before your board gets hit by Brawl or Shadowflame can really allow you to keep up the pressure. It also allows for truly gross things with Mechwarper as well as Sorceror's Apprentice and Spare Parts givers for the sake of Antonidas later on.

[shraeye]

I was excited when I drafted echo in a recent arena, but it fell really flat.  Played it once for reasonable effect, but still lost.  Played it once just out of spite while I was already losing because I drafted it to play it.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I think echo is an average epic in arena. It's better than pirate captain, but not great. You can usually get card advantage out of it in the late game, but you really can't play it at all until really late.

[ashersky]

How does Shadowbomber work?

[KingZog3]

How does Shadowbomber work?

It doesn't.

[pingpongsam]

How does Shadowbomber work?

It doesn't.

It's a terrible card as far as I can tell. It does that thing which I think is the easiest mistake to make in HS which is coax me into including the card in hopes of hitting a very specific combo effect that at best produces a mediocre effect. Good deck building involves including cards that stand decently on their own, combo well with multiple different cards and curves in the deck and have best case combos that are absolutely overwhelming when they pop. This card cannot do that.

The best case combo I came up with is turn 1 with coin drop this with PW: Shield so that you've got a 2/3 for 2 mana that dealt 3 damage to the enemy hero, drew you a card and allows you to heal up on turn 2 where most priests have little else to do. How this is better than Cleric + PW: shield I do not know.

[nkirbit]

Well, I wonder if at one point there are going to be enough cards to run suicide priest decks.  Shadowbomber and Mind Blast are both powerful cards in such a strategy... but we're clearly not there yet.  I don't know how far off we are.  Shadowform is also a powerful card... as is soulpriest/light of the naaru.  But it's just slower than minion based aggro decks at this point.

[HiveMindEmulator]

It can help you get in range for Molten Giant or Light Naaru?

[ashersky]

It can help you get in range for Molten Giant or Light Naaru?

It almost works with LotN...if it dealt 4 damage to yourself, you heal 3 and get a free Lightwarden.  But it doesn't.

I mean, maybe if Priest Zoo was a thing?  It's basically a (sometimes) better Flame Imp, right?

[blueblimp]

I mean, maybe if Priest Zoo was a thing?  It's basically a (sometimes) better Flame Imp, right?

I don't see the reasoning here. Flame Imp is good because it's a 3/2 for 1 mana, which is undercosted. Shadowbomber is a 2/1 for 1 mana, which is if anything overcosted, not undercosted.

[ashersky]

I mean, maybe if Priest Zoo was a thing?  It's basically a (sometimes) better Flame Imp, right?

I don't see the reasoning here. Flame Imp is good because it's a 3/2 for 1 mana, which is undercosted. Shadowbomber is a 2/1 for 1 mana, which is if anything overcosted, not undercosted.

Flame Imp is often 3 self-damage for 1 mana.  At least Shadowbomber does 3 damage to your opponent as well.  The body doesn't matter because it doesn't do anything either way. 

That's the comparison I'm making.

[blueblimp]

Flame Imp is often 3 self-damage for 1 mana.  At least Shadowbomber does 3 damage to your opponent as well.  The body doesn't matter because it doesn't do anything either way.

The 3/2 body is the whole reason that Flame Imp is a good card. That's why it has the 3 self-damage downside, and what made it be included over Leper Gnome in pre-Naxx zoo (back when having a deathrattle didn't matter).

[ashersky]

Flame Imp is often 3 self-damage for 1 mana.  At least Shadowbomber does 3 damage to your opponent as well.  The body doesn't matter because it doesn't do anything either way.

The 3/2 body is the whole reason that Flame Imp is a good card. That's why it has the 3 self-damage downside, and what made it be included over Leper Gnome in pre-Naxx zoo (back when having a deathrattle didn't matter).

I understand that a 3/2 body for 1 mana is the reason you run Flame Imp.

I'm saying that Flame Imp is usually "pay 1 mana, deal 3 damage to yourself, burn one card from your opponent's hand next turn."

Shadowbomber is "pay 1 mana, deal 3 damage to yourself AND your opponent, burn one card from your opponent's hand next turn."

In that sense, Shadowbomber is better.

[KingZog3]

Flame Imp is often 3 self-damage for 1 mana.  At least Shadowbomber does 3 damage to your opponent as well.  The body doesn't matter because it doesn't do anything either way.

The 3/2 body is the whole reason that Flame Imp is a good card. That's why it has the 3 self-damage downside, and what made it be included over Leper Gnome in pre-Naxx zoo (back when having a deathrattle didn't matter).

I understand that a 3/2 body for 1 mana is the reason you run Flame Imp.

I'm saying that Flame Imp is usually "pay 1 mana, deal 3 damage to yourself, burn one card from your opponent's hand next turn."

Shadowbomber is "pay 1 mana, deal 3 damage to yourself AND your opponent, burn one card from your opponent's hand next turn."

In that sense, Shadowbomber is better.

You mostly just need to think of Shadowbomber as a 2/1 with a Sinister Strike attached to it. The damage to you won't matter much.

[nkirbit]

Flame Imp is often 3 self-damage for 1 mana.  At least Shadowbomber does 3 damage to your opponent as well.  The body doesn't matter because it doesn't do anything either way.

The 3/2 body is the whole reason that Flame Imp is a good card. That's why it has the 3 self-damage downside, and what made it be included over Leper Gnome in pre-Naxx zoo (back when having a deathrattle didn't matter).

I understand that a 3/2 body for 1 mana is the reason you run Flame Imp.

I'm saying that Flame Imp is usually "pay 1 mana, deal 3 damage to yourself, burn one card from your opponent's hand next turn."

Shadowbomber is "pay 1 mana, deal 3 damage to yourself AND your opponent, burn one card from your opponent's hand next turn."

In that sense, Shadowbomber is better.

But Shadowbomber is often enough "pay 1 mana, deal 3 damage to yourself AND your opponent, and die to your opponents hero power."  It doesn't trade for a card often enough to make it worthwhile for now.

[blueblimp]

It's not just hero powers that 2/1s are vulnerable to, either. Voidwalker kills two. Zombie Chow kills two. Heck, Argent Squire kills two (which granted is not relevant in constructed, these days).

[ashersky]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

[EgorK]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

There is pretty funny Kolento's warlock deck that runs it. I do not have him unfortunately, so run Cairne instead

[ashersky]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

There is pretty funny Kolento's warlock deck that runs it. I do not have him unfortunately, so run Cairne instead

I swapped out Maexxna to add Sneed, but thought about dropping Cairne instead.

I'll look for the Kolento deck.


EDIT: This one? http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/154819-kolento

[EgorK]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

There is pretty funny Kolento's warlock deck that runs it. I do not have him unfortunately, so run Cairne instead

I swapped out Maexxna to add Sneed, but thought about dropping Cairne instead.

I'll look for the Kolento deck.


EDIT: This one? http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/154819-kolento

Yep. I played like 6 or 7 games last night, losing only 1 around rank 5. I replaced DID with 2nd Argus though

[ashersky]

Does anyone know the exact number of collectible cards in both sets?  Google isn't helping me here -- it seems like there have been discussions.

[ashersky]

Bought 7 packs for fun:

#1:  Shadowboxer
#2:  Lil' Exorcist
#3:  Shieldmaiden
#4:  Golden Velen's Chosen, Shieldmaiden, Cogmaster's Wrench
#5:  Muster for Battle
#6:  Junkbot, Kezan Mystic
#7:  Vitality Totem

I also got a few more commons I was missing, but I still have no Shielded Minibots or Tinkertown Technicians, and only one Stonesplinter Trogg.

[KingZog3]

Bought 7 packs for fun:

#1:  Shadowboxer
#2:  Lil' Exorcist
#3:  Shieldmaiden
#4:  Golden Velen's Chosen, Shieldmaiden, Cogmaster's Wrench
#5:  Muster for Battle
#6:  Junkbot, Kezan Mystic
#7:  Vitality Totem

I also got a few more commons I was missing, but I still have no Shielded Minibots or Tinkertown Technicians, and only one Stonesplinter Trogg.

The trogg isn't a huge deal. But tinkertown's are essential to mech decks. I only had 2 for a while because I opened a gold one.

[ashersky]

The trogg isn't a huge deal. But tinkertown's are essential to mech decks. I only had 2 for a while because I opened a gold one.

Yeah, I think I'll just craft the Tinkertown's.  I get Trogg's from Troggzor anyway.

Does anyone use Junkbot?

[Kirian]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

I hate all of you that have opened Legendaries from GVG packs.

[KingZog3]

The trogg isn't a huge deal. But tinkertown's are essential to mech decks. I only had 2 for a while because I opened a gold one.

Yeah, I think I'll just craft the Tinkertown's.  I get Trogg's from Troggzor anyway.

Does anyone use Junkbot?

I have never seen it in constructed, and only once in arena by a player who was clearly new to the game.

[ashersky]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

I hate all of you that have opened Legendaries from GVG packs.

I got a Troggzor in my first pack, I think.

If it makes you feel any better, I had to craft my Dr. Boom.

[KingZog3]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

I hate all of you that have opened Legendaries from GVG packs.

I got a Troggzor in my first pack, I think.

If it makes you feel any better, I had to craft my Dr. Boom.

I've got Foe Reaper and Iron Juggernaut. Most of the legends are pretty poor, so don't feel too bad. Almost all my useful legends were crafted. Grommash, Syvlannas were both from dust, not packs.

[markusin]

The trogg isn't a huge deal. But tinkertown's are essential to mech decks. I only had 2 for a while because I opened a gold one.

Yeah, I think I'll just craft the Tinkertown's.  I get Trogg's from Troggzor anyway.

Does anyone use Junkbot?

I have never seen it in constructed, and only once in arena by a player who was clearly new to the game.

I'm trying a one-of copy of it in my Echo Mage Mech deck with Antonidas. Haven't played with it much, but it's probably suboptimal.

[HiveMindEmulator]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

I hate all of you that have opened Legendaries from GVG packs.

I got a Troggzor in my first pack, I think.

If it makes you feel any better, I had to craft my Dr. Boom.

I've got Foe Reaper and Iron Juggernaut. Most of the legends are pretty poor, so don't feel too bad. Almost all my useful legends were crafted. Grommash, Syvlannas were both from dust, not packs.

I got 2x Iron Juggernaut, 2x Mekgineer Thermaplugg... Thanks RNG.
At least Iron Juggernaut is fun, and I have a lot of dust.

[KingZog3]

In other news, I just opened Sneed's Old Shredder.

I'll add him to my ramp deck, I guess.

I hate all of you that have opened Legendaries from GVG packs.

I got a Troggzor in my first pack, I think.

If it makes you feel any better, I had to craft my Dr. Boom.

I've got Foe Reaper and Iron Juggernaut. Most of the legends are pretty poor, so don't feel too bad. Almost all my useful legends were crafted. Grommash, Syvlannas were both from dust, not packs.

I got 2x Iron Juggernaut, 2x Mekgineer Thermaplugg... Thanks RNG.
At least Iron Juggernaut is fun, and I have a lot of dust.

I've userd Thermaplugg in Arena and he is also a lot of fun. Terrible, especially in constructed where at least Iron Juggernaut is ok, but man spawning a million leper gnomes is hilarious. You can clear my board and take 10 face damage for lethal, I don't mind

[popsofctown]

When they print a really bad MtG card, I don't really care because no one will ever use it, it will be as if they never printed the card, and it won't harm general play.

When they print a bad Hearthstone card, thanks to Webspinner-Recombobulator-Shredders-Unstable Portal, it adds variance to the game that probably does more harm than good (if those cards needed risk, enough was already supplied by situational cards and battlecries).  I find middle-finger-to-rexxar buzzard and Mekgineer Thermaplugg frustrating to even exist.  If they were overcosted by 1 mana it'd be one thing, but being overcosted by 2 mana makes it a trivial decision to just play the other cards in your hand for the ones that go to hand, and, less often, a trivial set-in-stone game if you fizzle the straight into play ones.