Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?  (Read 3596 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« on: November 04, 2014, 08:59:33 pm »
+1

Alchemists is a recent release that has earned a lot of buzz, a lot of which stems from the use of a "mandatory" app.  The app isn't actually mandatory, but without it you would need a moderator with a rather boring job for a very long game.

XCOM: The Board Game is a cooperative game that has a mandatory app which manages the alien invaders.

Most interesting to me (and what prompts this topic) is a a game that is currently on Kickstarter: World of Yo-Ho.  This looks to be a far heavier integration than either Alchemists or XCOM (though I don't know much about the XCOM game, other than the fact that it needs an app).  It's a pirate game where the ships are represented by players' phones.  There is also a pass-and-play version if there aren't enough phones to go around.  You use one phone to manage all the app bits and use tokens to track individual ship locations.

It looks like the app is necessary for the following:

- random events (e.g. weather conditions, undersea monsters, wreckage, messages in bottles)
- randomly generated missions which can change depending on the player's actions

It also provides some other benefits:

- easier setup and less space needed
- save games for future sessions
- higher immersion (via sound and animation)

It all looks very slick.  Even so, I won't be backing the campaign because I want to see how well it pans out.  The lowest reward tier still offers a fully playable game at $35.

Any thoughts about this game, or the incorporation of digital components in general?
Logged

Voltaire

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • flavor text
  • Respect: +1097
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2014, 11:54:11 pm »
+2

I completely "get" the desire to explore this crossover design space, and I think some incredibly cool things are possible.

I also will be staying 100% away from them, as board games are something that helps me break my screen addiction. I do not understand, though, the backlash that these games seem to be receiving - they're an additional genre, not a genre that will eat modern boardgames (okay, technically we can't know that, but the odds seem so tiny).
Logged

ashersky

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1520
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2014, 12:54:04 am »
0

It reminds me of when the electronic version of Battleship came out with the lights and sounds and stuff.

I was of an age where that was amazingly cool.  Maybe there were old schoolers complaining?

The Disney Infinity thing melded toys with video games.  There was You Don't Know Jack a million years ago with the DVD and board game together.  This isn't new, it's just improved.

I'm all for it.

Has someone crossposted this in the speculation thread?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

pedroluchini

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 205
  • Respect: +205
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2014, 03:18:46 am »
+1

I like board games because they are free from all the bullshit that surrounds digital games nowadays. There's no DRM, no mandatory upgrades, no issues with backwards compatibility, and no required Internet connection. I can buy a thing and then that thing is mine and I can do whatever I want with it whenever I feel like it.

I like digital games because they're convenient. They don't take up space in a shelf, and as long as I have an appropriate device with me I can just turn it on and play. I don't even need to convince a bunch of friends to come together!

These new hybrid games seem to have... the worst of both worlds? I don't know. I'm wary of the drawbacks and the gimmickry, even though the design possibilities are enticing.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11815
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12868
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2014, 04:09:12 am »
+2

Why not just make it a digital game then? Hearthstone is super fun when you're playing it with friends IRL.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3413
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2014, 04:42:51 am »
+1

I think using an online app is a horrible idea.

I think using an offline app to help with some cumbersome tasks is a great idea. Some board games have all sorts of different calculations you have to perform. An app can help you with that.

Consider an offline app for Agricola (don't know whether it exists or not) which does 3 things:
- You can fill in how many animals, food etc. you have and it calculates your score
- It provides a searchable index of all the cards in the game, so you can look up what your own and opponents' cards actually do
- It also has a list of cards that come out at a certain point in the game, so you know what's coming

The game is perfectly playable without the app, it just enhances it for those that want it. That's what an app should do. It shouldn't be the main part of the game, it should just make it easier.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

ipofanes

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1439
  • Shuffle iT Username: ipofanes
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2014, 04:47:30 am »
0

The game is perfectly playable without the app, it just enhances it for those that want it. That's what an app should do. It shouldn't be the main part of the game, it should just make it easier.

Some games could be enhanced. I could imagine sitting around a table with four people, each one with a tablet in front of them, connected to boardgaming-online.com for some Through the Ages. This would remove the board entirely though.

Innovation with all expansions would be a bookkeeping nightmare without Isotropic, I can't imagine it bringing it to the table. That there is no cardboard version of the third expansion is the least problem I see.

Space Alert might profit from an external app negotiating all external and internal threats, while user action is still resolved by pushing around cubes and playing cards.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 04:49:42 am by ipofanes »
Logged
Lord Rattington denies my undo requests

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4074
  • Respect: +2624
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2014, 07:11:58 am »
0

If you were designing technology to properly help a board game it wouldn't be a phone app. However the phone and tablets are cheap and available so until better devices are available to assist with gaming we might as well use these apps.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9413
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2014, 09:16:01 am »
0

I'll be interested to see what happens at the places that have sprung up that are "no electronics" gaming cafes.  The one nearest me even has a shaming area for those who absolutely must pull out their phones.

As to the games themselves... a hybrid genre that, as noted, seems to bring the worst of both worlds--I think it'll be interesting to watch, and the design space is interesting, but I don't think there's much future there.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2014, 09:43:04 pm »
0

I like board games because they are free from all the bullshit that surrounds digital games nowadays. There's no DRM, no mandatory upgrades, no issues with backwards compatibility, and no required Internet connection. I can buy a thing and then that thing is mine and I can do whatever I want with it whenever I feel like it.

I like digital games because they're convenient. They don't take up space in a shelf, and as long as I have an appropriate device with me I can just turn it on and play. I don't even need to convince a bunch of friends to come together!

These new hybrid games seem to have... the worst of both worlds? I don't know. I'm wary of the drawbacks and the gimmickry, even though the design possibilities are enticing.

It's a tough call, and it probably depends on the game.  The digital component of a board game does not necessarily have DRM, mandatory upgrades, backwards compatibility or a required internet connection.  I don't think the app fr Alchemists requires an internet connection.  For backwards compatibility, there *is* a website that does what the app does.  And even if they eventually fail to update the app for future generations of devices, it's probable that fans will be able to create apps of their own that do just as well.  All that cannot be said for Yo-Ho though, where gameplay is pretty tightly bundled with the app.

But Yo-Ho does seem to offer some advantages of each.  It reduces the game footprint by eliminating the need for many, many tokens and cards and tiles.  The setup should be much easier for the same reason.  And it gives you that face-to-face connection that is lacking from most purely digital games.

Why not just make it a digital game then? Hearthstone is super fun when you're playing it with friends IRL.

I suppose there is still something to be said for the tactical joy of interacting with a physical board, and a charm in playing face to face with others.  You can certainly have a Hearthstone LAN party, but probably most friends would not be getting together to play an online game.

I think using an online app is a horrible idea.

I think using an offline app to help with some cumbersome tasks is a great idea. Some board games have all sorts of different calculations you have to perform. An app can help you with that.

Consider an offline app for Agricola (don't know whether it exists or not) which does 3 things:
- You can fill in how many animals, food etc. you have and it calculates your score
- It provides a searchable index of all the cards in the game, so you can look up what your own and opponents' cards actually do
- It also has a list of cards that come out at a certain point in the game, so you know what's coming

The game is perfectly playable without the app, it just enhances it for those that want it. That's what an app should do. It shouldn't be the main part of the game, it should just make it easier.

These exist, at least in part.  I've got a scoring app for Agricola.  I don't get to use it much though, because most of my friends don't like Agricola. :(

I'll be interested to see what happens at the places that have sprung up that are "no electronics" gaming cafes.  The one nearest me even has a shaming area for those who absolutely must pull out their phones.

As to the games themselves... a hybrid genre that, as noted, seems to bring the worst of both worlds--I think it'll be interesting to watch, and the design space is interesting, but I don't think there's much future there.

I think they board game cafes may just skip games with digital components.  It would be a lot of hassle.  Patrons would have to download the app or else the cafe would have to provide devices themselves, which would bring a slew of other issues.  And then the staff would probably have to troubleshoot app issues, worry about device compatibility, etc.  There are plenty of non-digital games that it'd be simpler for them to just avoid the headache.

I think hybrid games could do a best-of-both-worlds thing.  The app function for Alchemists looks good to me.  The app is not doing anything particularly complicated; it's just removing the need for a moderator that handles a tedious job.  Deduction games in particular seem like they could benefit a lot from an app.  I'm interested to see what other innovations come out of this.
Logged

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3840
  • Respect: +2221
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2014, 09:36:28 am »
+1

I'm a fan of apps that help the game along. I have a scoring app for 7 Wonders. Granted, I think I still do it faster on paper, but I can see how the app can be helpful for many people. Likewise, there is the Sidekick app for Sentinels of the Multiverse. While SotM is an awesome game, it can get pretty fiddly.

So I love apps that facilitate the game.

I'm still not sold on apps that are required. I like to have low-tech options for my games. Space Alert and Escape both have CDs (and apps because a smartphone is more likely to be around than a CD player), but I seem to recall those games have low-tech options if you're playing during a power outage.

I was told by Fantasy Flight that the X-Com app is required. So what if the only phone with the app breaks down and nobody has internet to download a new one? What if you're in a quiet zone (I dunno; I guess it could happen)? What if everyone forgot their phones/tablets? Is there a low-tech option for this game? Is the algorithm available to allow someone to roll dice to determine what happens next?

For all intents and purposes, I'm sure that a game that requires an app is just as accessible to me as any other board game, but I still worry about the what ifs. What if fan-made apps are not as good as the real one? If the company goes bankrupt, what happens to your game? I can pull out my copy of Advanced Civilization today and play the same way I did over 20 years ago. Can I say the same about X-Com?
Logged
A man has no signature

Teproc

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 765
  • Shuffle iT Username: Teproc
  • aka Le Teproc
  • Respect: +356
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2014, 10:07:21 am »
0

Can someone explain the popularity of the 7Wonders scoring app ? I don't see how it's not quicker to do it on paper.

As for the new boardgames with apps, I'm fine with it, as long as it's clearly displayed on the box and it's only one smartphone required. Even if suddenly all boardgames did that and you didn't have a smartphone, you'd still have an insane amount of great boardgames to play, so I'm not worried about it pricing people out of the market : not having access to a few games per year isn't a big deal considering the number of new releases today.

I've heard of a game that was going to use smartphones as pawns basically, which would allow the game to handle secret information in a cool way, and I'm not super excited about that. I have no problems with it per se, but I doubt the audience will be that big for it : surprisingly enough, not everyone has a smartphone.
Logged
Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Thoughts on Digital-Board Hybrid Games?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2014, 08:13:47 pm »
0

Can someone explain the popularity of the 7Wonders scoring app ? I don't see how it's not quicker to do it on paper.

...

I've heard of a game that was going to use smartphones as pawns basically, which would allow the game to handle secret information in a cool way, and I'm not super excited about that. I have no problems with it per se, but I doubt the audience will be that big for it : surprisingly enough, not everyone has a smartphone.

Math does not come easily to everybody, even basic arithmetic.  And even those who can do it easily may not have a bit of trouble adding it up in their heads.  It can also be more convenient for finding the optimal way to use your wild science symbols.

On the latter, was that a different game than the pirate one I linked in the OP?

Edit: accidentally a word
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 04:34:49 pm by eHalcyon »
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.14 seconds with 20 queries.