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Author Topic: Draw during cleanup phase  (Read 5854 times)

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market squire

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Draw during cleanup phase
« on: October 31, 2014, 07:26:20 pm »
+1

Hello!
Here comes another awkward concept...

Caravansary (Action) $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
At the end of this turn, after drawing cards, +1 card.


In some cases it is weaker than lab, in some cases it is stronger - depending on the cards that will be played by the opponents and your Reactions.

Maybe it is too similar to Caravan?

If so, what about a Treasure Peddler variant:

Relic (Treasure) $5
Worth $1.
When you discard this from play, set aside the top card of your deck. Put it into your hand at the end of your Cleanup phase.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 10:37:12 pm »
0

Caravansary is weaker than Caravan, right? Definitely too similar.

Relic seems like it might be workable. Probably it's too expensive? I'd try it at $4.
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Joseph2302

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 07:25:14 am »
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Caravansary is weaker than Caravan, right?

Yes, because it's the same as caravan, but you get the card sooner, which means you lose it to a discard attack (e.g. militia), which you don't with caravan.
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qmech

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 07:31:45 am »
+1

I think Caravansery is stronger than Caravan in general, and certainly in the best case.  Because it's not a Duration you can play it every turn, which makes it much more useful for drawing your deck.
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silverspawn

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 08:03:39 am »
+1

well it's worse vs discard. it's better for the non-duration thing. but it's way too similar either way.

and if you consider the price, it's a lot worse.

qmech

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2014, 08:27:37 am »
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Yes, it would be better at $4.  It's worse than Lab.
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market squire

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2014, 08:53:14 am »
+1

Another plus for Caravansery (vs. Caravan) is that you increase your handsize during other player's turn which means you are more likely to reveal Reactions (you know, Moat, Bane card, Fool's Gold, Tunnel, Market Square...) and in better position for the opponent's Masquerade, Bishop, Vault, Mountebank or Tournament as well.

But maybe $4 is alright for both Relic and Caravansery.

Another thing to try could be Wharf-stile, i.e. making it terminal and draw another card:

Caravansary (Action) $4
At the end of this turn, after drawing cards, +2 cards.
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Awaclus

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2014, 03:19:47 pm »
+2

I think Caravansery is stronger than Caravan in general, and certainly in the best case.  Because it's not a Duration you can play it every turn, which makes it much more useful for drawing your deck.
Except you can't, because it has effects after you have discarded your cards so it won't be discarded from play the turn you play it. Being or not being a Duration doesn't have anything to do with it, all official cards that behave like that just "happen" to be Durations because it makes them harder to accidentally discard too early.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2014, 03:34:00 pm »
+1

What about just: the next time you draw any number of cards, +1 Card?
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silverspawn

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2014, 03:51:24 pm »
+1

I think Caravansery is stronger than Caravan in general, and certainly in the best case.  Because it's not a Duration you can play it every turn, which makes it much more useful for drawing your deck.
Except you can't, because it has effects after you have discarded your cards so it won't be discarded from play the turn you play it. Being or not being a Duration doesn't have anything to do with it, all official cards that behave like that just "happen" to be Durations because it makes them harder to accidentally discard too early.
I think the rule you're referring to is this one (I have a link for that because it's relevant for one of my cards)

I'll quote it here:

Quote from: Seaside Rulebook
If you play or modify a Duration card with another card, that other card also stays in your play area until it is no longer doing anything. For example if you play Throne Room on Merchant Ship, both cards stay in play until the Clean-up phase of your next turn. The Throne Room stays in play to remind you that you are getting the effect of Merchant Ship twice on that next turn

So, I don't think you're right, based on how it's phrased, because you don't modify a duration card. Unless you are talking about a different rule.

Awaclus

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2014, 04:41:42 pm »
0

Quote from: Seaside Rulebook
Leave the card in
front of you until the Clean-up Phase of the last turn in which it
does something (discard it before drawing for the following turn).
So if the card says "Now and on your next turn," discard it during
the Clean-up phase of your next turn

This is the rule I was referring to. It doesn't say that this only applies to Duration cards, although the text directly before this does imply that no cards other than Durations have these effects.
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market squire

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2014, 11:41:39 am »
+1

What about just: the next time you draw any number of cards, +1 Card?

This sounds okay to me. Although it really needs the +Action to be interesting then which makes it very similar to Lab and Caravan.
It should be a Duration card:

Caravansary (Action) $5
+1 Card
+1 Action
The next time you draw any number of cards, +1 card.

On the other hand, why not try this?

Caravansary (Action) $4
The next time you draw any number of cards, +2 cards.
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enfynet

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2014, 12:56:16 pm »
+1

Now and at the start of your next turn, +1 Action.
----------
While this is in play, when you draw cards, +1 card.
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AJD

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2014, 01:06:20 pm »
0

Quote from: Seaside Rulebook
Leave the card in
front of you until the Clean-up Phase of the last turn in which it
does something (discard it before drawing for the following turn).
So if the card says "Now and on your next turn," discard it during
the Clean-up phase of your next turn

This is the rule I was referring to. It doesn't say that this only applies to Duration cards, although the text directly before this does imply that no cards other than Durations have these effects.

If that text applied to non-Duration cards, it would apply to Possession.
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silverspawn

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2014, 01:17:44 pm »
0

Strictly speaking it'd apply for every card if peddler is on the board.

LastFootnote

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2014, 01:31:47 pm »
0

Quote from: Seaside Rulebook
Leave the card in
front of you until the Clean-up Phase of the last turn in which it
does something (discard it before drawing for the following turn).
So if the card says "Now and on your next turn," discard it during
the Clean-up phase of your next turn

This is the rule I was referring to. It doesn't say that this only applies to Duration cards, although the text directly before this does imply that no cards other than Durations have these effects.

If that text applied to non-Duration cards, it would apply to Possession.

I believe the rationale here is that Outpost stays out because it's reminding you to only draw 3 cards in your Clean-up phase, not so that you remember your extra turn.

I think it would be more reasonable if it stayed out to remind you that your Outpost turn is itself an extra turn and that you cannot therefore play another Outpost and get another turn. But that's just my opinion.

EDIT: In a perfect world, I agree that Possession would be a Duration card, probably discarded at the end of the extra turn it triggers.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 01:33:10 pm by LastFootnote »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2014, 07:45:28 pm »
+2

Now and at the start of your next turn, +1 Action.
----------
While this is in play, when you draw cards, +1 card.

I play this, then I play Great Hall.  I drew a card, so I can draw a second card.  Because I drew that second card, I can now draw a third.  This third triggers the ability again, allowing me to draw my fourth...

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LastFootnote

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2014, 08:20:16 pm »
0

Now and at the start of your next turn, +1 Action.
----------
While this is in play, when you draw cards, +1 card.

I play this, then I play Great Hall.  I drew a card, so I can draw a second card.  Because I drew that second card, I can now draw a third.  This third triggers the ability again, allowing me to draw my fourth...

Eh, maybe. I think it would be better to say, "When you draw cards, draw an extra card." Common sense tells you that it's not meant to be an infinite loop.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Draw during cleanup phase
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2014, 08:26:32 pm »
0

Now and at the start of your next turn, +1 Action.
----------
While this is in play, when you draw cards, +1 card.

I play this, then I play Great Hall.  I drew a card, so I can draw a second card.  Because I drew that second card, I can now draw a third.  This third triggers the ability again, allowing me to draw my fourth...

Eh, maybe. I think it would be better to say, "When you draw cards, draw an extra card." Common sense tells you that it's not meant to be an infinite loop.

Sure, but I'm going by literal reading of the card text. :P
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