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Author Topic: Tricky engine, could I have played it better?  (Read 2414 times)

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liopoil

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Tricky engine, could I have played it better?
« on: October 21, 2014, 08:37:15 pm »
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http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141021/log.517001e6e4b082c74d7e6a27.1413937049597.txt



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Vagrant, Menagerie, Wishing Well, Armory, Horse Traders, Golem, Rabble, Stables, Tribute, Border Village
Using shelters

Big engine here. I open wishing well/armory against my opponent's menagerie/horse traders, because wishing well is great at the start and menagerie isn't. Turn 4 I opt for a potion, which may be a bit early but I think I have decent chances of hitting 4P so it's worth it. However, I get 3P on turns 6 and 8, so end up not getting golem until turn 11, by which point my opponent already has two golems from a potion he got on turn 8. He gets a province on turns 11 and 12, which I think has to be a mistake, it's better to keep building. Because of this my deck catches up and exceeds his deck in strength, and draw all but one copper on turn 14 for 22 coins. I'm down two provinces, but keep building even though piles are running low. On turn 15 I have enough to take the lead by one point, but piles are low enough that he can win on his turn. My initial instinct is that I got unlucky and he had first player advantage, but I realize there are a lot of places where I could have gone wrong here. Some places where I may have messed up:

- My opening. I still think it's good, but I could be wrong.
- My wishing well guesses. I didn't think about them for too long and maybe could have made smarter guesses
- Early potion
- Tributes probably should have been rabble or something else
- Maybe I should have gotten some points on turn 14
- On my last turn, there were two border villages, 3 vagrants, and 3 horse traders left. Maybe I shouldn't have gained a horse traders, even if it was quite helpful for me on that turn.

My question is, which of the above are actually mistakes? Are there others that I missed maybe?
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assemble_me

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Re: Tricky engine, could I have played it better?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2014, 03:30:59 am »
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Wow, I'm sorry I can't really answer your questions, but do you really want to go for Golems here? There's a whole lot of draw without going for them? I mean, yeah without trashing Golem can smothen things out but I'd instinctly just go for a bunch of Stables, WWs and some Rabbles and Menageries. I'm quite baffled both of you went for it.

Just adding my opinion to some of your questions at least:
I guess I would have opened Wishing Well / Horse Traders, because I'd want to have lots of Stables, getting Armory a bit later. Although there's some synergy between Horse Traders and Menagerie and there are shelters, his opening Menagerie seems awful to me (actually, it seems awful to me on most boards).
Your potion seems early, but it's usually my problem to pick up Potions too late, so..
Tribute could have been OK there, you don't want to overdraw too heavily with Golems.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 03:52:28 am by assemble_me »
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Re: Tricky engine, could I have played it better?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2014, 04:07:31 am »
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Wow, I'm sorry I can't really answer your questions, but do you really want to go for Golems here?
Yes, you really want golems here. 100%.


1. I really don't like your opening here. The wishing wells and menageries are not the cards that make this engine tick. It's the $5's, $6 and $4P that you want. That makes Armory a bad card and Horse Traders a good one. I'd pair it with Silver actually but Wishing Well is also ok.

2. Because of the Armory your potion was way too early. You weren't likely to hit $4P with it.

3. Your guesses: If you don't think them through, wish for the most likely card instead of the card you want the most
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 04:13:34 am by -Stef- »
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markusin

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Re: Tricky engine, could I have played it better?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2014, 08:17:39 am »
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Also note that you can gain and topdeck Potion with Armory when you think you'll be able to afford Golem next turn. Overall Golem looks pretty strong here, and hey Stables can discard Potion so a bit less likely for Stables stalling. In fact, Horse Traders can discard actions so Golem can play them if it really comes to that.

Sure you can build an engine without Golem, but if you couldn't Golem would be awkward as well. It's the kind of thing AdamH was complaining about with Golem. Golem can provide an existing engine with intense power and cycling (and extra actions if that's needed).
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liopoil

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Re: Tricky engine, could I have played it better?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2014, 05:28:32 pm »
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Would you get an armory at some point later on?
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Re: Tricky engine, could I have played it better?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2014, 08:55:18 am »
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Would you get an armory at some point later on?

My plan would be not to get it, but that plan might change.
I don't see many scenarios where I prefer Armory to another Horse Traders.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Tricky engine, could I have played it better?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2014, 01:14:08 pm »
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My initial thought was that you want some sort of BV/Rabble engine. I'd probably open WW/HT.
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