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[silverspawn]

So, as you all noticed, Merudo did this, then Donald posted this, and I got inspired to do this.

To do this, I have rated all cards in powerlevel and given them a value on a scale from zero to ten. This is my personal opinion, and it parts of it differ drastically to both Qvist's and WW's rankings.

In my list, I consider rankings of nine and ten overpowered, and rankings of zero, one, and two underpowered. Everything in between is okay. Now, before I post my list, I want to point out one thing. If a card is underpowered, that's a bad thing. If a card is overpowered, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Two of my 10's are Fishing Villlage and Wharf, I'm sure most people consider both to be pretty fun. Being overpowered is, in dominion, only a bad thing if the card leads to uninteresting strategies, like Rebuild does. If you always buy it, but then the game can go in completely different directions, like it is the case for chapel, then that's fine. On the other hand, if a card is underpowered, that's inherently a bad thing, because it takes up a space and usually doesn't do anything. Whenever I had to choose between level 2 and 3 for a card, I asked myself: does the fact that the card is weak actively hurt it? If yes, than that's underpowered, and it goes under two. Examples for cards that barely made it to three are Philosophers Stone and Beggar. These are weak, but not so weak that it makes them bad cards.


Now, the List:

10 Chapel Masquerade Fishing Village Wharf Mountebank Goons Rebuild

9 Throne Room Witch Steward Swindler Ambassador Vineyard Scrying Pool King's Court Tournament Hunting Party Jack of all Trades Border Village Hermit Urchin Procession Wandering Minstrel Ironmonger Cultist Altar Stonemason Governor

8 Smithy Courtyard Minion Torturer Lighthouse Warehouse Tactician Apothecary Watchtower Grand Market Peddler Hamlet Menagerie Remake Fool's Gold Highway Margrave Fortress Junk Dealer Doctor Butcher Black Market Envoy

7 Militia Moneylender Duke Bazaar Ghost Ship Apprentice Quarry Worker's Village Vault Hoard Rabble Horn of Plenty Jester Embassy Haggler Ill-Gotten Gains Inn Stables Market Square Bandit Camp Counterfeit Catacombs Soothsayer Journeyman

6 Village Laboratory Library Bridge Conspirator Ironworks Upgrade Nobles Cutpurse Salvager Sea Hag University Alchemist Familiar Golem Mint Forge Young Witch Fairgrounds Scheme Spice Merchant Squire Scavenger Count Hunting Grounds Candlestick Maker Herald Plaza Baker Merchant Guild Walled Village Prince

5 Cellar Remodel Workshop Council Room Market Mining Village Harem Haven Lookout Smugglers Caravan Outpost Treasury Bishop City Bank Farming Village Horse Traders Develop Cartographer Vagrant Forager Sage Storeroom Armory Marauder Masterpiece Advisor

4 Moat Gardens Festival Pawn Baron Shanty Town Wishing Well Trading Post Navigator Treasure Map Merchant Ship Native Village Embargo Possession Loan Monument Venture Expand Fortune Teller Oasis Oracle Tunnel Silk Road Trader Mandarin Farmland Band of Misfits Graverobber Mystic Rogue Knights

3 Spy Great Hall Tribute Island Explorer Philosopher's Stone Trade Route Royal Seal Noble Brigand Nomad Camp Beggar Feodum Rats Pillage Taxman Stash

2 Chancellor Woodcutter Bureaucrat Mine Coppersmith Pearl Driver Herbalist Cache Poor House Death Cart

1 Feast Secret Chamber Pirate Ship Talisman Contraband Counting House Harvest Duchess

0 Adventurer Thief Scout Saboteur Transmute

-1 Bomb

And, stats. I wrote a java program for this, dunno if I made zero mistakes. I was pretty careful when I typed everything in, but I didn't double check it. So, it might be off. Of course, this is not actually an interval scale, so the mean doesn't really make sense, but hey, it doesn't hurt to include it.

Base
Overpowered: 3 (12%)
Underpowered: 7 (28%)
Mean: 4.68
Median: 5

Intrigue
Overpowered: 3 (12.0%)
Underpowered: 4 (16.0%)
Mean: 5.12
Median: 5

Seaside
Overpowered: 3 (11.54%)
Underpowered: 2 (7.69%)
Mean: 5.538461538461538
Median: 5

Alchemy
Overpowered: 2 (16.67%)
Underpowered: 2 (16.67%)
Mean: 5.5
Median: 6

Prosperity
Overpowered: 3 (12.0%)
Underpowered: 3 (12.0%)
Mean: 5.6
Median: 6

Cornucopia
Overpowered: 2 (15.38%)
Underpowered: 1 (7.69%)
Mean: 6.38
Median: 7

Hinterlands
Overpowered: 2 (8.0%)
Underpowered: 2 (8.0%)
Mean: 5.44
Median: 5

Dark Ages
Overpowered: 8 (22.86%)
Underpowered: 2 (5.71%)
Mean: 5.91
Median: 6

Guilds
Overpowered: 1 (7.69%)
Underpowered: 0 (0.0%)
Mean: 6.31
Median: 6

Promos
Overpowered: 1 (16.67%)
Underpowered: 0 (0.0%)
Mean: 6.67
Median: 6 & 8


A summary
Strongest set: Cornucopia (runner-up: Guilds)
Weakest set: Base (runner-up: Intrigue)
Most underpowered: Base
Least underpowered: Guilds

[soulnet]

By middle you probably mean mean, but a different mean than the one I had to use to say that you probably mean mean.

[Watno]

I think it's unnecessarily mean to point that out.

[2.71828.....]

Would	you	consider
rearranging	the	columns
like	this?

Or just some way where we don't have to scroll forever down and can see more of the list at once.

[silverspawn]

Would	you	consider
rearranging	the	columns
like	this?

Or just some way where we don't have to scroll forever down and can see more of the list at once.

ah, hm, I've never done tables. but it doesn't look too complicated. On it.

[2.71828.....]

10 Chapel --------- Masquerade --------- Fishing Village Wharf --------- --------- Mountebank Goons --------- --------- --------- Rebuild --------- ---------

9 Throne Room Witch --------- Steward Swindler --------- Ambassador --------- Vineyard Scrying Pool --------- King's Court --------- Tournament Hunting Party --------- Jack of all Trades Border Village --------- Hermit Urchin Procession Wandering Minstrel Ironmonger Cultist Altar --------- Stonemason --------- Governor

8 Smithy --------- Courtyard Minion Torturer --------- Lighthouse Warehouse Tactician --------- Apothecary --------- Watchtower Grand Market Peddler --------- Hamlet Menagerie Remake --------- Fool's Gold Highway Margrave --------- Fortress Junk Dealer --------- Doctor Butcher --------- Black Market Envoy

7 Militia Moneylender --------- Duke --------- Bazaar Ghost Ship --------- Apprentice --------- Quarry Worker's Village Vault Hoard Rabble --------- Horn of Plenty Jester --------- Embassy Haggler Ill-Gotten Gains Inn Stables --------- Market Square Bandit Camp Counterfeit Catacombs --------- Soothsayer Journeyman ---------

6 Village Laboratory Library --------- Bridge Conspirator Ironworks Upgrade Nobles --------- Cutpurse Salvager Sea Hag --------- University Alchemist Familiar Golem --------- Mint Forge --------- Young Witch Fairgrounds --------- Scheme Spice Merchant --------- Squire Scavenger Count Hunting Grounds --------- Candlestick Maker Herald Plaza Baker Merchant Guild --------- Walled Village Prince

5 Cellar Remodel Workshop Council Room Market --------- Mining Village Harem --------- Haven Lookout Smugglers Caravan Outpost Treasury --------- --------- Bishop City Bank --------- Farming Village Horse Traders --------- Develop Cartographer --------- Vagrant Forager Sage Storeroom Armory Marauder --------- Masterpiece Advisor ---------

4 Moat Gardens Festival --------- Pawn Baron Shanty Town Wishing Well Trading Post --------- Navigator Treasure Map Merchant Ship Native Village Embargo --------- Possession --------- Loan Monument Venture Expand --------- Fortune Teller --------- Oasis Oracle Tunnel Silk Road Trader Mandarin Farmland --------- Band of Misfits Graverobber Mystic Rogue Knights --------- ---------

3 Spy --------- Great Hall Tribute --------- Island Explorer --------- Philosopher's Stone --------- Trade Route Royal Seal --------- --------- Noble Brigand Nomad Camp --------- Beggar Feodum Rats Pillage --------- Taxman --------- Stash

2 Chancellor Woodcutter Bureaucrat Mine --------- Coppersmith --------- Pearl Driver --------- Herbalist --------- --------- --------- Cache --------- Poor House Death Cart --------- ---------

1 Feast --------- Secret Chamber --------- Pirate Ship --------- --------- Talisman Contraband Counting House --------- Harvest --------- Duchess --------- --------- ---------

0 Adventurer Thief --------- Scout Saboteur --------- --------- Transmute --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

-1 Bomb

here you go, silverspawn.  copy and paste.  (only if you want to)

I am a little OCD about things like this (having nice columns and such)

[pacovf]

I think it's unnecessarily mean to point that out.

By no means did soulnet mean to be mean.

Meanwhile, though silver's is no mean list, is the mean really meant to be in it? I don't mean business, but well-meant Merudo's list was meant for the meanest of cards, not for their mean.

[silverspawn]

I can't believe mean is the right word for the middle value.

Meanwhile, though silver's is no mean list, is the mean actually meant to be in it? I mean, well-meant Merudo's list was meant for the meanest of cards, not for their mean.

is there any reason not to put it in? As I said, it's not an interval scale, so the mean isn't technically allowed. But still, why leave it out. it doesn't bite.

[soulnet]

...

That's a good idea. Once you are doing tables, maybe you want to align sets in rows.

[silverspawn]

That's a good idea. Once you are doing tables, maybe you want to align sets in rows.

oh cmon, is that really necessary?

[Polk5440]

...

That's a good idea. Once you are doing tables, maybe you want to align sets in rows.

Or remove the --------s and color-code the sets to make them stand out. That would preserve the nice bell-shape of your ratings.

[Awaclus]

...

That's a good idea. Once you are doing tables, maybe you want to align sets in rows.

I think that first you might want to confirm that he consents to you doing him.

[silverspawn]

isn't it COLORFUL?

I need to find a different pink though. I want guilds to look awful, just like the package, but you can barely see this. And I even made it bold.

edit: that's okay I think. what'cha think? keep the colors?

[jsh357]

This is a pretty good format to steal; everything in one screen.  Now we can all have list threads.

[pacovf]

This is a pretty good format to steal; everything in one screen.  Now we can all have list threads.

I dare you to find a way to use this format in your Art ranking.

[Polk5440]

Yes! Keep the colors. That looks great!

[AJD]

Yes! Keep the colors. That looks great!

No! Switch to different colors!

Base
Intrigue
Seaside
Alchemy
Prosperity
Cornucopia
Hinterlands
Dark Ages
Guilds
Promo

Come on, these are canonical!

[Voltaire]

Actual comment about the rankings:

So this pretty much shows the same results as the others, right? (not saying it wasn't worth the effort, saying that's a noteworthy conclusion).

[Beyond Awesome]

Actual comment about the rankings:

So this pretty much shows the same results as the others, right? (not saying it wasn't worth the effort, saying that's a noteworthy conclusion).

Although, by silverspawn's basis, DA has 2.5 times as many overpowered cards than any other expansion.

[silverspawn]

Yes! Keep the colors. That looks great!

No! Switch to different colors!

Base
Intrigue
Seaside
Alchemy
Prosperity
Cornucopia
Hinterlands
Dark Ages
Guilds
Promo

Come on, these are canonical!

they are? yellow and pink are bad though. you can barely read them. I rather have made-up colors then unreadable ones

[silverspawn]

Actual comment about the rankings:

So this pretty much shows the same results as the others, right? (not saying it wasn't worth the effort, saying that's a noteworthy conclusion).

not quite, cornucopia is not the set with the most overpowered cards here, as it was in the other list. and I'm not sure if it'd have the best mean in the other list.

but it does go in the same direction

Although, by silverspawn's basis, DA has 2.5 times as many overpowered cards than any other expansion.

well, they're just that good. I almost included Junk Dealer too.

[Axxle]

In my list, I consider rankings of nine and ten overpowered, and rankings of zero, one, and two underpowered. Everything in between is okay. Now, before I post my list, I want to point out one thing. If a card is underpowered, that's a bad thing. If a card is overpowered, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Two of my 10's are Fishing Villlage and Wharf, I'm sure most people consider both to be pretty fun. Being overpowered is, in dominion, only a bad thing if the card leads to uninteresting strategies, like Rebuild does. If you always buy it, but then the game can go in completely different directions, like it is the case for chapel, then that's fine. On the other hand, if a card is underpowered, that's inherently a bad thing, because it takes up a space and usually doesn't do anything. Whenever I had to choose between level 2 and 3 for a card, I asked myself: does the fact that the card is weak actively hurt it? If yes, than that's underpowered, and it goes under two. Examples for cards that barely made it to three are Philosophers Stone and Beggar. These are weak, but not so weak that it makes them bad cards.\

After reading this, it makes me wonder how it'd change if your organized by least fun to most fun cards.

[Davio]

In my list, I consider rankings of nine and ten overpowered, and rankings of zero, one, and two underpowered. Everything in between is okay. Now, before I post my list, I want to point out one thing. If a card is underpowered, that's a bad thing. If a card is overpowered, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Two of my 10's are Fishing Villlage and Wharf, I'm sure most people consider both to be pretty fun. Being overpowered is, in dominion, only a bad thing if the card leads to uninteresting strategies, like Rebuild does. If you always buy it, but then the game can go in completely different directions, like it is the case for chapel, then that's fine. On the other hand, if a card is underpowered, that's inherently a bad thing, because it takes up a space and usually doesn't do anything. Whenever I had to choose between level 2 and 3 for a card, I asked myself: does the fact that the card is weak actively hurt it? If yes, than that's underpowered, and it goes under two. Examples for cards that barely made it to three are Philosophers Stone and Beggar. These are weak, but not so weak that it makes them bad cards.\

After reading this, it makes me wonder how it'd change if your organized by least fun to most fun cards.

Ranking cards from least fun to most fun is tough, because it's not only highly subjective (on a person by person basis), it's also highly context related.

I mean, I love games where I can put Coppersmith to good use, but there are so many games where it's just a dead card. Does this mean Coppersmith is a lot of fun, no fun at all, or somewhere in between? I don't know.

Fishing Village is a card which is almost always useful, and I think it's fun, but maybe a fun card should be purely situational? Would you quantify a fun card as a card you voluntarily buy/gain in roughly 40%-60% of the kingdoms it appears in? Maybe.

I don't like cards you're somewhat forced in getting, like Mountebank, Tournament, Rebuild, etc.
I also don't like cards you'd always pick your opponent for when you reveal it with Jester, like Scout.

But as I said it's soooo much fun to make under-appreciated and under-used cards work! I'm really torn on this subject.

I think the games I play which are most fun incorporate odd combos you rarely come across, like Procession with good targets on all price points, from $1 all the way up to $7: Poor House, Hamlet, Menagerie, Warehouse, Procession, Ironmonger, Moneylender, Cultist, Hunting Grounds, King's Court seems like a fun board.

[silverspawn]

After reading this, it makes me wonder how it'd change if your organized by least fun to most fun cards.

actually, I was playing with the idea of doing that too. maybe even in the style of jsh's art ratings. though it could be tough to write something about the average cards.

[eHalcyon]

In my list, I consider rankings of nine and ten overpowered, and rankings of zero, one, and two underpowered. Everything in between is okay. Now, before I post my list, I want to point out one thing. If a card is underpowered, that's a bad thing. If a card is overpowered, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Two of my 10's are Fishing Villlage and Wharf, I'm sure most people consider both to be pretty fun. Being overpowered is, in dominion, only a bad thing if the card leads to uninteresting strategies, like Rebuild does. If you always buy it, but then the game can go in completely different directions, like it is the case for chapel, then that's fine. On the other hand, if a card is underpowered, that's inherently a bad thing, because it takes up a space and usually doesn't do anything. Whenever I had to choose between level 2 and 3 for a card, I asked myself: does the fact that the card is weak actively hurt it? If yes, than that's underpowered, and it goes under two. Examples for cards that barely made it to three are Philosophers Stone and Beggar. These are weak, but not so weak that it makes them bad cards.\

After reading this, it makes me wonder how it'd change if your organized by least fun to most fun cards.

Ranking cards from least fun to most fun is tough, because it's not only highly subjective (on a person by person basis), it's also highly context related.

I mean, I love games where I can put Coppersmith to good use, but there are so many games where it's just a dead card. Does this mean Coppersmith is a lot of fun, no fun at all, or somewhere in between? I don't know.

Fishing Village is a card which is almost always useful, and I think it's fun, but maybe a fun card should be purely situational? Would you quantify a fun card as a card you voluntarily buy/gain in roughly 40%-60% of the kingdoms it appears in? Maybe.

I don't like cards you're somewhat forced in getting, like Mountebank, Tournament, Rebuild, etc.
I also don't like cards you'd always pick your opponent for when you reveal it with Jester, like Scout.

But as I said it's soooo much fun to make under-appreciated and under-used cards work! I'm really torn on this subject.

I think the games I play which are most fun incorporate odd combos you rarely come across, like Procession with good targets on all price points, from $1 all the way up to $7: Poor House, Hamlet, Menagerie, Warehouse, Procession, Ironmonger, Moneylender, Cultist, Hunting Grounds, King's Court seems like a fun board.

You have a similar kind of issue when ranking cards by strength though.  Possession can utterly change the way you approach a board and sometimes it can be absolutely devastating, but lots of times it is little more than an expensive, glorified Workshop.  Treasury is a useful, consistent card that usually never hurts your deck (cantrip!) but also rarely an outstanding game-changing card.  Is each of these super powerful, not powerful at all, or somewhere inbetween?

I concede that it's tougher to figure out a balance for "fun", and that enjoyment is a far more subjective scale.

After reading this, it makes me wonder how it'd change if your organized by least fun to most fun cards.

actually, I was playing with the idea of doing that too. maybe even in the style of jsh's art ratings. though it could be tough to write something about the average cards.

You can just use the Explorer meme.