Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Drab Emordnilap]

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141005/log.507f8372a2e6c48a2978b032.1412561637125.txt
Pawn, Coppersmith, Feast, Remodel, Worker's Village, Duke, Library, Mandarin, Nobles, Forge (No Shelters, no Colonies)

(It's been so long, I forget how to do the fancy kingdom display. ._.)

Is Coppersmith the best strategy here? It looked viable to me, and I never get to use Coppersmith, so I went for it. Worker's Village is great because you need actions and buys for Coppersmith, and it gives you both, and Nobles is another half village that's much better than normal when Library is your other draw. I figured Library would work for draw while going off because you can reduce your hand size by playing the Coppersmiths, but that ended up not being relevant because I got enough Worker's Villages that I could use Nobles to draw almost always.

Notable turns:

Turn 6, I have Remodel/Pawn/S/C/C with an empty deck, and I've already got 2 Libraries, so I don't really want to Remodel the Silver. Is there a better play than Remodel Pawn into WV, buy WV?

Turn 11, I pick up 3 Coppersmiths. Turn 12, I get $24 and 8~ buys, but I don't have enough buys to 3-pile (5 Pawns, 0 Worker's Villages were the low piles) so I buy the last 4 Nobles to empty a second pile and put me ahead far enough that even if opponent can empty the Pawns, he'll be behind. Turn 13, I go off again thanks to all the draw from the Nobles and have $30 and many buys. I empty the Estates to three pile.

[assemble_me]

I think Coppersmith is great here. I mean, what other payload options do you have? Just treasures? Turbo Remodel? Somewhat Forge? Coppersmith has to be better than that.
I guess it wouldn't have worked as well with only Libraries as draw, because I expect you'd have problems to get through your deck with all those Coppers around.
Well played

[2.71828.....]

(It's been so long, I forget how to do the fancy kingdom display. ._.)

http://gokosalvager.com/kingdomvisualize

plug in the url, copy the BBCode, and you get this:

Code: [Select]

Pawn, Coppersmith, Feast, Remodel, Worker's Village, Duke, Library, Mandarin, Nobles, Forge

[silverspawn]

I don't think coppersmith is viable here. You can play a WV/Nobles engine and use forge to get rid of coppers and estates. and speed up the game, if your opponent tries to play something too slow (like coppersmith...) There are even cute things that you can do with Library here.

[Awaclus]

You can play a WV/Nobles engine and use forge to get rid of coppers and estates.

That's what his opponent tried, it didn't work out too well.

[silverspawn]

You can play a WV/Nobles engine and use forge to get rid of coppers and estates.

That's what his opponent tried, it didn't work out too well.

that doesn't mean much.

[Awaclus]

You can play a WV/Nobles engine and use forge to get rid of coppers and estates.

That's what his opponent tried, it didn't work out too well.

that doesn't mean much.

No, but what are you going to use as your payload if you don't use Coppersmith? How are you going to win the Nobles split if you waste one turn buying a Forge and then trash all of your economy?

[silverspawn]

you don't need to win the nobles split. unlike a lot of people seem to think, there is not actually a rule in dominion that requires you to empty nobles before you can buy provicnes. you can forge the starting estates into one gold; that plus the 2 silvers you should open with and either a third silver or one copper is enough to buy a province. it's not hard to get to a small deck that does this, 2 nobles plus villages are probably enough to carry you to the end of the game. if your opponent insist on buying nobles, just forge one province into another each turn, and you end the game in 4 turns.

[Awaclus]

you don't need to win the nobles split. unlike a lot of people seem to think, there is not actually a rule in dominion that requires you to empty nobles before you can buy provicnes. you can forge the starting estates into one gold; that plus the 2 silvers you should open with and either a third silver or one copper is enough to buy a province. it's not hard to get to a small deck that does this, 2 nobles plus villages are probably enough to carry you to the end of the game. if your opponent insist on buying nobles, just forge one province into another each turn, and you end the game in 4 turns.

Let's see:

t1 Silver
t2 Silver
t3 Nobles
t4 Silver
t5 Nobles for cards, buy Forge
t6 Nobles
t7 Nobles for actions, Nobles for cards, Forge 3 Estates and 2 Coppers into a Gold
t8 WV
t9 WV
t10 engine works like a dream, trash rest of your Coppers, buy a Province
t11 buy Province, trash Province for Province
t12 buy Province, trash Province for Province, before your next turn Drab ends the game and has 29 points vs your 22 points

[CG19]

It's hard to argue against Coppersmith here with $24 (with buys) on Turn 12 and $30 on Turn 13. That is some fantastic payload. I think the OP played this one really well and I can't find any significant changes for improvement.

[-Stef-]

Some points in random order...

• Drab Emordnilap had fantastic draws in his game. Don't use it as a point of reference.
• I really dislike a Silver/Silver opening, almost regardless of my plan here.
• I think it's pretty close between coppersmiths and golds here as a payload, but it looks/feels like coppersmith is better. Tried it once.

Upon drawing your deck coppersmith results in instant payload (might even remodel into it) while forge takes another 2 turns to set up.

[silverspawn]

well i can be wrong, obviously. I'm not sure or anything. but I don't see why coppersmith is any good here. tactician makes him good. TR makes him good. lack of possibilities to trash coppers can make it good. there is nothing here.

grinding through a log and trying to figure out how good a strategy is based on that is arduous. I never do that. Just play the board, that's both efficient and more precise. with stef saying that coppersmith is probably better, it's probably better. i'm with MicQ in that arguments aren't very useful.

I'll test it, let's see how it goes.

[Awaclus]

• Drab Emordnilap had fantastic draws in his game. Don't use it as a point of reference.

My imaginary Coppersmithless player also had fantastic draws; every turn he does the best thing he could possibly hope for, unless there's a better option that I'm just failing to see (the t4 Silver would normally be a village instead, but here it doesn't matter because he also knows he's going to have perfect draws). I guess the "fantastic" draws of the Coppersmith version and the Forge version aren't entirely comparable though, because one might benefit from great luck more than the other and/or have good draws less often than the other. Still, I don't think the difference is very big, and Drab Emordnilap would have won against my example strategy even if the example strategy was given one extra turn.

well i can be wrong, obviously. I'm not sure or anything. but I don't see why coppersmith is any good here. tactician makes him good. TR makes him good. lack of possibilities to trash coppers can make it good. there is nothing here.

Strong engines make him good and there is a strong engine here.

[silverspawn]

well a bunch of test games have confirmed my intuition that coppersmith is really bad here. maybe i'm just bad at playing it, dunno.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Drab won the WV split 7-3. At that point his opponent is screwed. With infinity actions, Drab can play all the Nobles and Coppersmiths he wants, and doesn't have to worry about not trashing the Coppers, since there is reliability in the sheer number of Villages. If you don't get that many Worker's Villages, things won't go as well, and you may have to resort to using Gold.