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[2.71828.....]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

[Teproc]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

I think Axxle is arguing that Egork slipped that he already knew Eevee's alignment, so he omitted the town v town narrative.

@Axxle : Sure, that's an argument, but that's not what silverspawn was saying. I think any vote at this point must be backed by an explanation of the interactions whoever you are voting for has with the two flipped scum we have.

[Axxle2]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

I think Axxle is arguing that Egork slipped that he already knew Eevee's alignment, so he omitted the town v town narrative.

@Axxle : Sure, that's an argument, but that's not what silverspawn was saying. I think any vote at this point must be backed by an explanation of the interactions whoever you are voting for has with the two flipped scum we have.

Oh, yeah. I thought he had posted that Day 1.

[Axxle2]

Regarding the votes, you're right that they should have more explanation.

[silverspawn]

So I halfway through my reread of eevee/reactions to eevee (WW, your signature does not help and just want to note that it was quite a battle between e and eevee. Not sure if it was heavy bussing or town vs scum though

@Egork: Why did you rule out town v town here?

eevee had already been shot.....

I think Axxle is arguing that Egork slipped that he already knew Eevee's alignment, so he omitted the town v town narrative.

@Axxle : Sure, that's an argument, but that's not what silverspawn was saying. I think any vote at this point must be backed by an explanation of the interactions whoever you are voting for has with the two flipped scum we have.

I get your point, but honestly, lurking on my part was a tactical decision. WW had said that he thought I was town based on our fight; if I don't post he'll keep thinking that way, and if I don't get shot, I have done enough, especially with a 2/1 lead.

[silverspawn]

and before you say it, yes, that plan didn't work out with us missing the deadline. I didn't consider/think of that.

[Teproc]

Being considered town is also not enough. it's a townie's first priority but it's definitely not enough, and you should never be lurking to look townie, that's just completely countreproductive.

Again, pot calling the kettle black, but still, that's not a valid argument. Also I find it interesting (hey Ichi*) that ou find Egork scummy for lurking yet admit to have purposefully lurked to look townie yourself.

* as an IC using interesting (TM) is actually valuable since you don't want to give your reads away.

[silverspawn]

Being considered town is also not enough. it's a townie's first priority but it's definitely not enough, and you should never be lurking to look townie, that's just completely countreproductive.

you're not wrong, but you're not really right either. we had > 50% by shooting randomly, we had >> 50% if he doesn't shoot me, and yes, I think it's very hard to get invested in this game, because of the way the format works. honestly (and this is no-one's fault, we didn't try it before), this format is kind of terrible. because you're rewarded for being shot, you just don't have nearly as much motivation as you have in normal games. so, I still stand by my decision to lurk here. It's not like it's something I usually do.

[silverspawn]

I should stop lurking now though I guess so... I'll do a big reread later today, promise. It's not like that takes long, we're only 20 pages in. in ASOIAF, we had like 50 day one.

[silverspawn]

ehhh i actually kind of skimmed through the second half. this game... I don't know. and nothing has really changed. I already made a case on sudgy, I didn't even remember that. why is he still alive. Let's just do him. am I already voting for him? dunno.

vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy
vote: sudgy

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote Count 5.1

EgorK (1): Hydrad
sudgy (1): silverspawn

Not Voting (5): sudgy, Teproc, Axxle2, EgorK, 2.71828

Day 5 ends at 8pm FT on November 21st.

[EgorK]

Hi there. Axxle question was already answered, I just want to say that I am currently participating in TopCoder Open onsite, so I do not have much free time

I would still Vote: Axxle

[Teproc]

Why Axxle ? What, specifically, makes you think he's Eevee and XP's partner ?

[2.71828.....]

sorry I haven't been around too much.  Doing the XP reread I should have done yesterday now.

[2.71828.....]

And.....I just accidentally closed out the window on all my reread work.

So here are summary thoughts instead of in depth post-by-post thoughts.

XP ignores Hydrad.  Like, interacts with him once at the very beginning saying a post is townie, then once when he is forced to since he does a reads list that has everyone.  And one more time in between to say he is kind of scummy with EgorK but that ww/e/eevee are all better than either of those two.  In that list he lumps Hydrad in with silverspawn, who has described as "scummy but unqualified to actually call scummy."

XP calls silverspawn scummy a decent amount D2 onward, but "Silverspawn always looks scummy to me, so I guess I'm not the right one to decide about him." 

XP posts quite a lot about me D1.  But it is kind of strange.  Like, voting for me, then voting for WW because he was building a case against me.  I am in his very firm D1 lynch pool of eevee/WW/e, but he always drifted back to WW rather than eevee or myself.  I can only think that he decided that WW was the better lynch candidate after everyone left my wagon except eevee and he didn't want to be on the same wagon as his scum buddy.

XP thinks Teproc is town.  Throughout the game

XP doesn't really have anything to say about sudgy or EgorK or Axxle2 all that much.  I mean, he talks about them but is just very open to shooting any of them without too much thought. 

His D2 reads:

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

His entire D3:

I'm on silverspawn's side as far as ww goes. He really should have defended himself more. Still, the way he's acting in general feels not quite right.

What's the case on me? You seems to just repeating over and over that you want to shoot me.

Silverspawn is acting annoying, so I have to work hard to not have a scum read him - I'll reread him, I think.

Sudgy is also fine for me.

Silverspawn looks really scummy, so I'll reread him.

Axxle2 shot wouldn't be that bad.

I'm going to act as if we werlynching because that's the only way we get people to actually express hard opinions. I don't remember if WW said he would follow a voting system, but even if he didn't we should act as if this was a normal lynch, then WW can decide whatever.

This seems right, so vote: sudgy If someone better comes up, I'll swap, though.

vote: e

Is that better?

Let's get Axxle2 to start posting. vote: Axxle2

I was really freaked out about that being the hammer until I realized that if that was a derphammer, ww doesn't have to shoot.

Again, totally ignoring Hydrad.  Ignores EgorK.  votes for sudgy, myself, and Axxle2.  Doesn't vote the person who seems to be his top scumread, silverspawn.

To wrap things up, vote: Hydrad.  Leaving Hydrad out of most all of his discussion was either intentional (don't bring attention to your partner especially in a slow, lurky game) or unintentional (its a slow, lurky game and you forget about people).  What really gets me to vote here is that he doesn't lump Hydrad in with other lurky people, but in a separate category.  It just doesn't feel right to me.

[Hydrad]

hmm while I like that reread to me it also makes me like the egork lynch a bit more.

Also one thing I'd like to point out is that I think I was the first one to bring up XP and stay on him for 2 days. I guess I could be hard bussing but just thought I should remind you incase that helps change your mind.

[Teproc]

e, do you think ignoring your partner is a good scum strategy, or one you've seen people do ?

[2.71828.....]

e, do you think ignoring your partner is a good scum strategy, or one you've seen people do ?

I don't think it is the best scum strategy, but in a game like this one I don't think it is a poor choice.  With the amount of inactivity that has gone on (from everyone) trying to let a partner fly under the radar is a nice option.

[2.71828.....]

Also, I just reread Hydrad (my earlier post was exclusively a ctrl+f "username: xer" reread) and he really does come off much townier when I actually read him. 

Hydrad brings up the point that he said xp was scum and stuck to it throughout.  This is true.  He was also super confident about sudgy until sudgy didn't get "lynched" which changed his opinion on sudgy and left him with his exclusive xp is scum.

sudgy and xp are scum
393, 408, 413, 421, 453, 535

sudgy might not be scum, but xp is.
555, 556, 583, 616, 618

With a minor relapse onto sudgy as possible scum, but more as a "lesser of 2 evils" sort of thing rather than a big read
619

I do find this interesting that I hadn't noticed before reading just xp:

Town read on teproc for starting up conversation, scum points for silverspawn for focusing in on the lurkers so much when he says he has other strong reads, town points for EgorK for coming back and posting a few more times, scum points for EgorK for promptly leaving again (it looks like he feels he needs to post but doesn't actually want to), town points for silverspawn for that weird ww reread, more town points for teproc for strong pro-town content, scum points for silverspawn for a really bad case on sudgy, scum points for sudgy for not posting at all, and finally scum points for ww for not actually giving much content, though plenty of posts.

Day2 reread done!

Just curious. You seem to have left me out of the day2 reread. I don't really mind. But just thought that was interseting.

So the "ignoring of Hydrad" that I talked about was noticed by Hydrad (in the very next post).  XP responds and then Hydrad drops it.  Scum has daychat to set things like this up if they want to.  But would they do that?  A better question is would they do that (create this minor little thing) while XP ignores everything else Hydrad has said?  Maybe?  It doesn't seem all that likely.

unvote

[2.71828.....]

Right now I need to go back and look at EgorK and silverspawn.  The other person xp didn't mention at all D3, and the person he cried wolf loudest against on D3 but never voted for.

[Teproc]

I plan on shooting tonight after a last reread, so... if you have arguments to make, now's the time.

[2.71828.....]

I get your point, but honestly, lurking on my part was a tactical decision. WW had said that he thought I was town based on our fight; if I don't post he'll keep thinking that way, and if I don't get shot, I have done enough, especially with a 2/1 lead.

This is really interesting, and I think it makes me lean more to thinking that silverspawn is town.  Trying out crazy tactical decisions for mafia games is something I have seen silverspawn do, and I don't remember him ever being scum when he does.  This could be different, but right now I lean town!silverspawn

[Teproc]

I get your point, but honestly, lurking on my part was a tactical decision. WW had said that he thought I was town based on our fight; if I don't post he'll keep thinking that way, and if I don't get shot, I have done enough, especially with a 2/1 lead.

This is really interesting, and I think it makes me lean more to thinking that silverspawn is town.  Trying out crazy tactical decisions for mafia games is something I have seen silverspawn do, and I don't remember him ever being scum when he does.  This could be different, but right now I lean town!silverspawn

In ASoIaF mafia, where he was scum, silverspawn "accidentally" "outed" me as his partner in twilight (I was not). He' perhaps the only player I would put on an ash-level of willigness to try stuff out.

[Teproc]

We should do some reads analysis in relation to Eevee.  I would think scum would be perfectly fine bussing with four scum, so I actually think the people who were the strongest on his case are the ones who would be the most scummy.  I don't think all scum did so, but I think at least one did.

This is a very self-serving argument sudgy is making here. After rereading day 1, I think the Eevee wagon was likely dominated by town. WW and myself, e who is a strong town read (his analysis posts don't feel constructed at all, which they often do when done by scum) and silverspawn who I'm less confident about but would lean towards town. Then there's XP who was scum, and that's a big part of my reasoning : I don't think two scum bussed here, the Eevee wagon never looked inevitable. Maybe silver, but I don't think so.

That leaves sudgy, XP, Egork and Axxle as the off-wagon people who would have two scum among them, which makes it very appealing for scum to argue that bussing happened, it encourages us to look on-wagon where our odds are much worse than off-wagon.

so right now

sudgy > EgorK > Witherweaver > XP > Teproc > Axxle2 > e > Hydrad > me

For me, sudgy/EgorK/ww/e > Hydrad/silverspawn > Axxle2 >>> Teproc >> me

This really, really makes me want to shoot Axxle.

Town read on teproc for starting up conversation, scum points for silverspawn for focusing in on the lurkers so much when he says he has other strong reads, town points for EgorK for coming back and posting a few more times, scum points for EgorK for promptly leaving again (it looks like he feels he needs to post but doesn't actually want to), town points for silverspawn for that weird ww reread, more town points for teproc for strong pro-town content, scum points for silverspawn for a really bad case on sudgy, scum points for sudgy for not posting at all, and finally scum points for ww for not actually giving much content, though plenty of posts.

Day2 reread done!

The vibe I'm getting from this overall is "let's not lynch lurkers just because they're lurkers guys". Which would mean scum is among the lurkers at that point (ie sudgy, Egork and Axxle).

Silverspawn is acting annoying, so I have to work hard to not have a scum read him - I'll reread him, I think.

Sudgy is also fine for me.

Post post post.

Silverspawn looks really scummy, so I'll reread him.

Axxle2 shot wouldn't be that bad.

These are both in day 3, when things looked really bad for XP since W hd said he probably would shoot him. The way I read these posts is :

"Hey, let's lynch [townie who has attracted a lot of attention recently]. ALternatively, I'd be fine with lynching [my partner because I will flip soon so I need to think about my interactions].

[Teproc]

So I'm getting to day 5 now and going into it my theory was that Axxle and Egork were the remaining scum.

Then they both vote each other. Man, this game, it's so hard.