Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 38 39 [40] 41  All

Author Topic: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)  (Read 140739 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

A Drowned Kernel

  • 2015 World Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1067
  • They/Them
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #975 on: November 29, 2014, 10:40:22 pm »

yayyyyy
Logged
The perfect engine
But it will never go off
Three piles are empty

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #976 on: November 29, 2014, 10:46:00 pm »

Nice job e surviving that long! This setup would be cooler as a blitz I think, or at least 2 or 3 day deadlinea.
Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

Hydrad

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
  • Shuffle iT Username: Hidrad
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #977 on: November 29, 2014, 10:58:29 pm »

is there a speccy QT or anything?
Logged
For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #978 on: November 29, 2014, 11:02:26 pm »

I don't think it needs to be Blitz, but shorter deadlines definitely.

I'm annoyed I missed that deadline.. I somehow thought I still had days left.
Logged

XerxesPraelor

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #979 on: November 29, 2014, 11:03:50 pm »

Teproc's posts about my interactions were super funny to read - all the things I tried to make people think actually  worked on him.
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #980 on: November 30, 2014, 04:14:09 am »

yay I can read hydrad. also yay we won  :D

so, what's which the choice for notebearers? why ADK and teproc?

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #981 on: November 30, 2014, 08:05:24 am »

Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #982 on: November 30, 2014, 08:08:29 am »

Teproc because I just thought there was no chance he would ever get shot.  I mean, if it came down to Hydrad, Teproc, and myself, there is 0% chance I survive.  silverspawn was also an option, but he always suspected me a bit more than others so I didn't want him to be the notebearer. 

Throughout the game I probably played way too individualistic, but it was difficult not to because of, you know, reasons.  I actually think had I been shot instead of EgorK we might have had a better chance, but I seriously doubt it.  This game was going to be almost impossible to win no matter what.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #983 on: November 30, 2014, 08:42:24 am »

I'm not sure you really had another choice, so this is not necessarily a critique, but I found you tunneling me kind of random. I don't think you ever really explained why? At least I don't remember.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #984 on: November 30, 2014, 11:18:17 am »

I mean, I was doing it as a PoE thing more than anything else there at the end.  I wanted to keep sudgy alive as someone you could shoot because I knew that between me and hydrad I was dead. 

So my plan was get you shot, get sudgy shot, then hope that sudgy hadn't payed too careful attention and that I could bring him over to shooting hydrad. 
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #985 on: November 30, 2014, 11:18:57 am »

In fewer words, I thought I could get you shot easier than I could get Hydrad shot. 
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #986 on: November 30, 2014, 05:02:07 pm »

Flavor and QT links tomorrow. This weekendhas been nonstop work for me so I haven't had time to get to a computer. Sorry about that!
Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #987 on: December 01, 2014, 12:34:04 am »

Flavor has been posted for the last two kills and here are the QTs:

Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/8pbev3ZhcwcSS

Mafia: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/6EhgN2GiectU

Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/RZDDVsGWT5ir

Thank you to everyone for trying out this new setup and being patient with everything, and thank you to Ichi for the badass flavor and for helping me out!
Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

Ichimaru Gin

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Interesting™
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #988 on: December 01, 2014, 12:50:22 am »

Man, this was awesome. It was a pleasure co-modding for you and writing the flavor.

This was definitely an interesting and enjoyable experience as my first time doing this sort of thing.

scott_pilgrim

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1102
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #989 on: December 01, 2014, 01:56:51 am »

Okay, I just want to say, I really don't like this set-up.  When I first saw it, I thought "hey that's a cool unique idea for a set-up".  But this game really dragged on and there was so little discussion through the whole thing, and I think that's really the set-up's fault.  It's like it's designed to minimize everyone's participation.

First, there's nothing to discuss, other than lynch flips, so there's minimal information added to the game on each new day.  There's no night kill results to discuss, and no night actions.  It's like every day is D1.  Also, it means there can never be any claim-related discussion, because there's nothing to claim.  Everyone who's not scum is just a VT.

Second, there's no accountability for votes.  The fact that the gunbearer has the final say (and I think optimal play would involve just shooting independently of votes, though I'm not sure about that), means everyone else has very little incentive to get involved.  I can vote, but I can't really influence the gunbearer's shot, and I can't get mad at him if he doesn't listen to me, because I also wouldn't listen to me in his position.

Third, this is a much more minor thing, but I think scum tends to post less when they have day chat, so that's another thing that hurts participation.


I just did a bunch of calcs because I wanted to complain about the balance of the set-up, but I actually think it's pretty well-balanced.  I got town has a 43% (42 and 6/7%) chance of winning with random shots.  I was expecting it to be much higher, above 50%, which would be complaint worthy because in this set-up the game is strictly harder for scum than the probability with random shots.  But 43% is reasonable I think.  In this game it looked really good for town because they hit scum D1, but if they miss scum D1, they have only a 1/3 chance of winning with random shots, so I guess that's how it's balanced.  In practice obv. hitting scum D1 is even better because a scum flip is so much more valuable than a town flip.  I don't really like how heavily the game depends on hitting scum D1, but I don't know what you can do about that, that's true of mafia in general.

Anyway, I still don't like the set-up, even if it's balanced.  It sounded cool but seems like it doesn't work so well in practice.  Maybe it would work better as blitz, but I'm skeptical.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #990 on: December 01, 2014, 05:43:25 am »

Yeah, I pretty much agree with scott; this is why I didn't sign up for this game in the first place.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

ashersky

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #991 on: December 01, 2014, 05:46:51 am »

I think this is much better suited to be played all at once, a la drunk (or IRL) mafia.  You can yell and scream and try to convince the gun bearer, no voting, just chaos, with rapid firing.
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #992 on: December 01, 2014, 05:54:55 am »

well I've said this even during the game, and I agree with SP, though I'd add a few things.

One: rewarding you for being shot is a bad idea. Part of the motivation town has is that you want to keep playing, and being lynched sucks. Here, being shot is cool, because then you get a gun. You have less motivation, and don't want to invest as much in the game. Bad.

Two: A single IC is almost enough to break this setup. If you have as many IC's as scum remaining, you win 100%, but even if you have just one, it's a tremendous advantage. Of course you cannot create real IC's, but if one player makes himself obv!town, that's bigger than it has any right to be.

Three: mafia is so helpless in this setup. They can't do anything. Part of what makes playing as mafia cool is the fact that you can just be nice during the day ONLY TO KILL PEOPLE DURING THE NIGHT. that's satisfying. Here, you have none of that. Why do we even hunt mafia, they didn't do anything to us <.<

And I also disagree that 43% is okay. Why would it be. A 7-2 setup has like >70% for scum with random lynches, and that's not very good. 10/3 has 80% (reference here. So, I don't even think it is balanced.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #993 on: December 01, 2014, 06:02:39 am »

And I also disagree that 43% is okay. Why would it be. A 7-2 setup has like >70% for scum with random lynches, and that's not very good. 10/3 has 80% (reference here. So, I don't even think it is balanced.

While I agree with the rest you said, this part isn't really true. We don't do 7/2 or 10/3 setups without PRs because it would be unbalanced (and, well, boring). Prs greatly increase town's odds, but calculating here becomes quite complicated.

I still think 43% with random shots is probably too high, but you can't use this argument for it.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #994 on: December 01, 2014, 06:11:37 am »

okay yeah, the argument doesn't work. still, this setup is giving very little credit to the reading skills of players. and as we see here, scum lost pretty hard. I think if 43% was really balanced, that would be pretty sad.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #995 on: December 01, 2014, 10:02:20 am »

I like reading about how they were all trying to get me shot in the Mafia QT :)
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #996 on: December 01, 2014, 10:13:29 am »

Also, I was on scum pretty much all Day 1 & 2 with e, Eevee, XP (except for, you know, that vote on myself).  Though after Eevee and XP flipped I probably wouldn't have shot e until possibly late.  I probably would have ended up shooting EgorK (for lack of anything better to do, not for a strong scumread) if I had actually realized the deadline was coming up.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #997 on: December 01, 2014, 10:24:06 am »

well I've said this even during the game, and I agree with SP, though I'd add a few things.

One: rewarding you for being shot is a bad idea. Part of the motivation town has is that you want to keep playing, and being lynched sucks. Here, being shot is cool, because then you get a gun. You have less motivation, and don't want to invest as much in the game. Bad.

Two: A single IC is almost enough to break this setup. If you have as many IC's as scum remaining, you win 100%, but even if you have just one, it's a tremendous advantage. Of course you cannot create real IC's, but if one player makes himself obv!town, that's bigger than it has any right to be.

Three: mafia is so helpless in this setup. They can't do anything. Part of what makes playing as mafia cool is the fact that you can just be nice during the day ONLY TO KILL PEOPLE DURING THE NIGHT. that's satisfying. Here, you have none of that. Why do we even hunt mafia, they didn't do anything to us <.<

And I also disagree that 43% is okay. Why would it be. A 7-2 setup has like >70% for scum with random lynches, and that's not very good. 10/3 has 80% (reference here. So, I don't even think it is balanced.

I think the Daychat thing is a factor, though.  This is probably a high-skill setup for scum.  If you look at their QT, there is a lot of talk on who to vote and when, on how bussing will look, etc.  I think e actually played very well. 
Logged

AndrewisFTTW

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1129
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #998 on: December 01, 2014, 11:32:50 am »

You guys all have valid arguments but I think the problem is you're comparing this setup to other normal setups and making a judgement based on that. Yes compared to other setups this is dull for lack of PRs and only one person ultimately determines who dies, but in a drunk mafia or blitz context like ash has pointed out, I think this could be pretty fun. I understand the argument that if town is shot they are "rewarded" but I don't see it like that. I see it as whoever misses scum gets punished (killed) so whoever holds the gun is under a lot of pressure to get it right. The only rewarding part about is being an IC, but you can still die if you miss.

Also everyone has complained that this game dragged on and on. If you look at how many posts are in this thread, we're only at page 40. I understand there's inherently less to talk about because of the setup, but almost without fail everyone waited until the day of the deadline to shoot. Often people would go 4 or 5 days without posting anything. Yes I didn't forsee the problem of 10 day days in the beginning of the game but deadlines are a loose suggestion and I think people should've been more trigger happy.
Logged
Wins: M39, M41, M48, M96, M97, M102, M105
Losses: M40, M43, M45, BM17 (?), RMM13, RMM17, RMM20, NM7, ZM18, M100, M109
MVPs: M97
Mod/Co-Mod: M46, M49, M52, NM10

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5301
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
    • View Profile
Re: M52: Death Note Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #999 on: December 01, 2014, 11:38:11 am »

you sound slightly defensive (or maybe I'm just imagining that). If you are, there's no reason to, most of us thought it was a cool setup before we tried.

About it being better in blitz, I have no idea, could totally be the case. I don't care about blitz though, so I only judged it as a normal game.
Pages: 1 ... 38 39 [40] 41  All
 

Page created in 0.066 seconds with 19 queries.