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[olneyce]

Dont you just hate it though when you are trying to play a nice game of squash when you want it to be enjoyable for both players, and your opponent keeps hitting the ball where you cant reach it, rather than straight back to you!

Well, the point isn't actually totally crazy.  The analogy would be more like:

When you're warming up and you want to just get moving, your friend keeps trying to hit screamers that would score points.  I think you would be rightly annoyed because you aren't really focused on playing the game at that point.

Isotropic is clearly not a good place to go about that sort of business.  But in principle I can understand someone just wanting the fun and sociable part of the game's mechanics without it being cutthroat. 

I certainly do not agree it 'says something about the character' of the person who builds a Torturer engine or rushes Silk Roads or whatever.

[verikt]

Around here squash is a food. Or something you do to soda cans.
But hello, I don't know about you but I'm here for fun. I don't get paid for this. I'd rather lose an enjoyable game than win a boring one.

[Ozle]

(Would like to point out that the squash analogy was entirely tongue in cheek and should not be used in actual comparisons)

[ftl]

Around here squash is a food. Or something you do to soda cans.
But hello, I don't know about you but I'm here for fun. I don't get paid for this. I'd rather lose an enjoyable game than win a boring one.

So what, in your mind, makes a game enjoyable? Because I'm still puzzled as to why you would describe the IW/Great Hall/Conspirator game as boring.

In my mind, the main thing that makes a game enjoyable are interesting decisions to be made. The boring games are the formulaic ones - where the optimal strategy is obvious, and both players basically go through the motions all game, and luck decides it. This is most common with Single Card + Money strategies, or certain combos that are really bad at absorbing extra cards.

But I saw nothing remotely boring about your IW/Gh/Cons example. I think there is a tradeoff to be made there - I don't think you want all 10 or even 5 ironworks; there's choices to be made about when to gain which of the three components, and when to go green. It's not formulaic at all.

[verikt]

Because I'm still puzzled as to why you would describe the IW/Great Hall/Conspirator game as boring.

Those are usually fun cards that make for a fun game. Buying 2 iw's changes that by making it so much more likely that the piles will run out. It forces you to go for cheap green early.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Because I'm still puzzled as to why you would describe the IW/Great Hall/Conspirator game as boring.

Those are usually fun cards that make for a fun game. Buying 2 iw's changes that by making it so much more likely that the piles will run out. It forces you to go for cheap green early.

And what makes a three pile game more boring than the standard competition to see who can get more than 4 Provinces first?

[Deadlock39]

Okay... I'm a bit afraid to step into this one because it's another wonderful "opinion" thread, but I just don't understand this example at all.  Gaining a second Ironworks in this situation definitely does not magically change the game to a 3 pile rush game.  I can't imagine a pile rush on Ironworks, Great Hall, and Estate is even remotely competitive (simulator gurus might help here).  I would expect straight up boring Big Money going for Provinces to win pretty easily.  This isn't Ironworks Gardens here... It is 1 point Great Halls.

Regarding one of the other examples... Saboteur is an absolutely terrible card on most boards.  If your opponent buys one, the right reaction is almost always going to be to just ignore it and keep playing.  "Buying one in defense" is throwing away the advantage your opponent just gave you when he bought a crappy card.

To the main point of the thread.  Different people have different opinions of what the definition of "enjoyable game" is.  For me an enjoyable game is a competitive one. Passing on the strongest strategy because it is an attack or disliked for some other reason just seems ridiculous.  Sometimes it can be less fun to play a long Curse heavy game, but if it is on the board and it is the best strategy it would be silly not to go that direction.  You can restrict cards or decline games if you really don't want to play a card, but taking issue with your opponent buying a card that is on the board is crazy.

[Eevee]

to me its about competition, outsmarting your opponent and winning by figuring out the game / the board better. the most fun i could have playing* would probably be realizing something like ironworks-great hall-conspirator is better than your standard boring smithy-bm or whatever and beating my opponent that way. tells something about my personality?

*no really it would be beating a top player with a scout-based strategy, one of these days.

[Kirian]

Also of note:  If you do not mirror the IW/GH strategy, then your opponent will have a harder time completing it fast enough to beat your Provinces.

[elahrairah13]

after several days of nice experiences on isotropic, tonight I'm having worse luck...

upon seeing me get the first prize, user wakka wakka said "oh faggot", then stopped playing... I am waiting to resign him.

annoying.

... and for whatever reason, 7 minutes has gone by with no action from him and no prompt to resign him...

[ciaccona]

What the heck is up with winners saying gg first so often on isotropic? I've yet to play an online game where that's not considered boorish.

[EntirelySonja]

I know this thread has kind of wandered away from its original intent, but it seemed like the place to write about this:

I played against someone on March 6 with the username "pinkfreud".  It was an appalling experience -- he was amazingly offensive, inquiring into my sexual habits and commenting on his own.  I simply ignored it; in retrospect, I should have resigned the game as soon as he called me "babygirl" and asked about my breasts.

Of course, he can just change his username, so I have no idea what benefit posting about it here might have.

I've been playing on the isotropic server for months, and this is the only time I've encountered anything like it.

For those of you with morbid curiosity, I have attached the unedited chat log -- this is the entirety of the "conversation" we had.

[ftl]

Yeah, that's the sort of thing that people should be banned for...

[A_S00]

What the heck is up with winners saying gg first so often on isotropic? I've yet to play an online game where that's not considered boorish.

Wait, really?  I mean, I consider it rude to say gg if you're winning but the game isn't over yet (because it's presumptuous...you're saying, "I'm so far ahead you're dead, you should just admit that it's over now," which is mean even if it's true).  And that's why it's rude for the winner to say gg first in, say, SC2, because you don't have an opportunity to say anything to each other after the game is well and truly over.  But once the game is actually over (like, the "Game Over" image has come up), the game is...you know...over.  Now it's just time to acknowledge that it was a good game (or really, that you respect your opponent enough to acknowledge them with the token gesture of saying "gg," since it doesn't really mean anything about the game itself).

If there's actually a rule about the order you're supposed to say gg in, I may have been inadvertently offending people .

[blueblimp]

Oh, I just assumed it to refer to gg'ing as the winner before the game is over. I don't see anything wrong with gg'ing first if the game has ended.

[Taco Lobster]

The Dominion Etiquette thread has an epic discussion of gg if you want to explore that topic in extreme depth.  The short story is that there doesn't seem to be a general consensus of any type regarding the appropriateness of saying gg.

[mnavratil]

Played someone earlier today by the handle of "Schtroumpf". His after game conduct was pretty poor.

As you can see by the timestamps, the initial gg was quite a bit before the end of the game.

7:55 Schtroumpf: well gg.
7:57 Schtroumpf: wow and we tied?
7:57 Schtroumpf: way to blow that
7:57 Schtroumpf: novice
7:57 Schtroumpf has returned to the lobby.

On the upside, at least he didn't call me "babygirl"

[^_^_^_^]

15:45 ^_^_^_^: hi gl hf :)15:57 ^_^_^_^: gg15:57 Krispy: chicken shit15:57 Krispy has returned to the lobby.

This is the first time I've actually been truly disappointed enough by my opponent to post this here. And yet it is so ironic lol...
The Game. I win with 5 vs his -1 points on a 3 pile. If he had gone for VP instead of Highways he might've had a better chance...

[catsclaw]

Add Finian to the list of dicks.

13:57 Fin Fang Foom: This is a terrible set
13:58 Finian: nice way to complain. you drew 2-5 split on a margrave
13:58 Finian: so shut the fuck up

... and ...

14:04 Fin Fang Foom: You got lucky
14:04 Finian: lol you suck so badly
14:04 Finian: that was not a viable strategy
14:04 Finian: i had 4 remodels i could trash platinum anytime
14:04 Fin Fang Foom: It's a shitty set
14:04 Finian: stupid fuck

[ciaccona]

Add Finian to the list of dicks.

13:57 Fin Fang Foom: This is a terrible set
13:58 Finian: nice way to complain. you drew 2-5 split on a margrave
13:58 Finian: so shut the fuck up

... and ...

14:04 Fin Fang Foom: You got lucky
14:04 Finian: lol you suck so badly
14:04 Finian: that was not a viable strategy
14:04 Finian: i had 4 remodels i could trash platinum anytime
14:04 Fin Fang Foom: It's a shitty set
14:04 Finian: stupid fuck

I'd add both.

[Ozle]

And heres why these threads never truely work....

13:10: Ozle: Hello
13:10: Other Player: Yeah whatever

13:16: Other Player: God I hate you so much, why are you such a fucker?
13:16: Other player: You really are an Asshat!
Other player has resigned to the lobby

Of course, I didnt actually post the intervening 6 minutes where I put 100 posts insulting his mother.


(Note: This isnt an actual log or reference to any event! Just illustrating that split, editable, chat logs are no reason to form an opinion of anybody)

[barsooma]

And heres why these threads never truely work....

13:10: Ozle: Hello
13:10: Other Player: Yeah whatever

13:16: Other Player: God I hate you so much, why are you such a fucker?
13:16: Other player: You really are an Asshat!
Other player has resigned to the lobby

Of course, I didnt actually post the intervening 6 minutes where I put 100 posts insulting his mother.


(Note: This isnt an actual log or reference to any event! Just illustrating that split, editable, chat logs are no reason to form an opinion of anybody)

No, the real reason is noone is going to remember these names, certainly not in time to decline games with them. Hell, I can't even remember the ones who've been assholes to me personally (and they've been mentioned in this thread several times by others as well).
What we need is a public reputation and voting system integrated either into isotropic or a browser extension.

[Ozle]

No need for any of that really.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of games played on Isotropic (and thats just by WW) we have a thread of 124 posts in total, only 50% of which are reporting bad behaviour and I probably only rate a handful of them of really bad behaviour.

If someone is properly offensive to you, and I mean properly offensive and not just said a few bad words because they are a bad loser, then I would probably report it to the admins, but then I wouldnt imagine they would want to shift through all the reports they would get, so I probably wouldnt bother.

[PerdHapley]

No need for any of that really.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of games played on Isotropic (and thats just by WW) we have a thread of 124 posts in total, only 50% of which are reporting bad behaviour and I probably only rate a handful of them of really bad behaviour.

If someone is properly offensive to you, and I mean properly offensive and not just said a few bad words because they are a bad loser, then I would probably report it to the admins, but then I wouldnt imagine they would want to shift through all the reports they would get, so I probably wouldnt bother.

Agreed completely.

I think it's important to remember sometimes just how good we all have it. I'm sure that a lot of people here don't really play other games online, and don't have anything to really compare Isotropic to. Prior to getting into Dominion I played online poker regularly through a few different sites for several years. The difference in terms of average etiquette between that world and this one is just insane. I'm sure that isn't surprising to anyone, since obviously having money on the line is bound to bring out the worst in some people, but even at the lowest stakes it was pretty shocking how often players would berate each other. Even the worst examples in this thread don't come close to some of the horrible tirades people would go on for no good reason in online poker implementations. That after close to 5000 games of Dominion on Iso I can count on one hand the number of players who have been genuinely jerky to me is pretty incredible, and I'd be surprised to find another community this large that is so universally friendly.

[Kirian]

I'm sure that a lot of people here don't really play other games online, and don't have anything to really compare Isotropic to. Prior to getting into Dominion I played online poker regularly through a few different sites for several years. The difference in terms of average etiquette between that world and this one is just insane. I'm sure that isn't surprising to anyone, since obviously having money on the line is bound to bring out the worst in some people...

If anyone wants to get a feel for terrible etiquette, get a free-to-play pass for WOW, come to Proudmoore server, and sit in city Trade chat for 30 minutes some evening.  ANd with no money on the line.