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Author Topic: Coppersmith board  (Read 2328 times)

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ThaddeusB

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Coppersmith board
« on: October 01, 2014, 10:35:42 pm »
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Beggar, Haven, Squire, Steward, Workshop, Coppersmith, Ironworks, Mining Village, Thief, Mystic
I decided to go for Coppersmith for the first time ever.  It proved quite useful as I got 5 Provinces + 1 Duchy in 16 turns.  I did have some good luck, but Mining Village+Coppersmith+Beggar is almost certainly the best play. 
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 11:09:02 pm »
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I don't think that beats Steward+Squire+money. With a bunch of Copper and no draw, you're not going to have an easy time lining up a 3 card combo.
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ThaddeusB

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 11:17:04 pm »
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I don't think that beats Steward+Squire+money. With a bunch of Copper and no draw, you're not going to have an easy time lining up a 3 card combo.

I opened Stewart+Ironworks, so I have a bit of draw and a source of lots of Mining Villages...  With Mining Village, I only need 3 Coppers+Coppersmith (out of 5 cards when MV replaces itself, or 6 if Stewart draws) for a Province - not too hard to do, and if I only get 6 I can buy Gold.  Beggar is just a bonus, the real key was mass MV.
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amalloy

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2014, 11:22:11 pm »
+1

I don't think that beats Steward+Squire+money. With a bunch of Copper and no draw, you're not going to have an easy time lining up a 3 card combo.

I think you're right, but note that MV+Steward is theoretically a playable draw engine, enough to get a handful of each component into your hand all at once. Maybe unopposed you could get super-thin, play+trash 10 MVs, play 3 Stewards for draw, and use your remaining 8 actions on the 8 terminals in your hand. Something like two Squires for +6 buys, three Coppersmiths, and three Beggars can get a pretty cool megaturn: that's $48, for six Provinces if there are somehow that many left by the time you're ready (but there won't be). The potential payload is even greater if you can use some Havens as a mini-Tactician, starting with ten cards instead of five. I don't think it's fast enough to beat a more straightforward strategy, but it is possible to set up a giant megaturn if you build long enough.
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ThaddeusB

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 12:05:32 am »
+4

Coincidentally, my forum title switched to "Coppersmith" exactly on my OP. 
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amalloy

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 04:16:51 am »
+1

I don't think that beats Steward+Squire+money. With a bunch of Copper and no draw, you're not going to have an easy time lining up a 3 card combo.

I think you're right, but note that MV+Steward is theoretically a playable draw engine, enough to get a handful of each component into your hand all at once. Maybe unopposed you could get super-thin, play+trash 10 MVs, play 3 Stewards for draw, and use your remaining 8 actions on the 8 terminals in your hand. Something like two Squires for +6 buys, three Coppersmiths, and three Beggars can get a pretty cool megaturn: that's $48, for six Provinces if there are somehow that many left by the time you're ready (but there won't be). The potential payload is even greater if you can use some Havens as a mini-Tactician, starting with ten cards instead of five. I don't think it's fast enough to beat a more straightforward strategy, but it is possible to set up a giant megaturn if you build long enough.

So I tried out my megaturn strategy, with mixed results. It turns out to be pretty hard to play, because of the very weak draw, and the weird timing of Haven (you want to play them only on the turn before your megaturn, but on the turn before that it's very hard to avoid playing them, since they're stop cards otherwise). I'm also not sure what the ideal number of Ironworks is: 3 seems to work reasonably well, but  I have trouble being patient enough to trash them to clean up for the megaturn once I'm done with them. Really, adding any payload to this deck slows it down a lot.

The best I did was on my third try, getting a $50 turn with 7 buys on turn 16. Is that enough to beat Squire/Steward/money? Maybe not, but it's more competitive than I expected. I just played one game of Squire/Steward/money, and probably played it poorly, but if those two players had been against each other, it would have come down to first-player advantage: Steward+BM had only 25 points before turn 16 (a deficit the megaturn can overcome); picking up the fifth Province on turn 16 makes the megaturn fall short.

So, my conclusion is that the Coppersmith thing isn't really that great, but it's not a big nombo like HME seemed to be suggesting (at least if played as a megaturn, rather than for repeated single-Province turns).
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markusin

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 08:11:35 am »
0

I don't think that beats Steward+Squire+money. With a bunch of Copper and no draw, you're not going to have an easy time lining up a 3 card combo.

I think you're right, but note that MV+Steward is theoretically a playable draw engine, enough to get a handful of each component into your hand all at once. Maybe unopposed you could get super-thin, play+trash 10 MVs, play 3 Stewards for draw, and use your remaining 8 actions on the 8 terminals in your hand. Something like two Squires for +6 buys, three Coppersmiths, and three Beggars can get a pretty cool megaturn: that's $48, for six Provinces if there are somehow that many left by the time you're ready (but there won't be). The potential payload is even greater if you can use some Havens as a mini-Tactician, starting with ten cards instead of five. I don't think it's fast enough to beat a more straightforward strategy, but it is possible to set up a giant megaturn if you build long enough.

So I tried out my megaturn strategy, with mixed results. It turns out to be pretty hard to play, because of the very weak draw, and the weird timing of Haven (you want to play them only on the turn before your megaturn, but on the turn before that it's very hard to avoid playing them, since they're stop cards otherwise). I'm also not sure what the ideal number of Ironworks is: 3 seems to work reasonably well, but  I have trouble being patient enough to trash them to clean up for the megaturn once I'm done with them. Really, adding any payload to this deck slows it down a lot.

The best I did was on my third try, getting a $50 turn with 7 buys on turn 16. Is that enough to beat Squire/Steward/money? Maybe not, but it's more competitive than I expected. I just played one game of Squire/Steward/money, and probably played it poorly, but if those two players had been against each other, it would have come down to first-player advantage: Steward+BM had only 25 points before turn 16 (a deficit the megaturn can overcome); picking up the fifth Province on turn 16 makes the megaturn fall short.

So, my conclusion is that the Coppersmith thing isn't really that great, but it's not a big nombo like HME seemed to be suggesting (at least if played as a megaturn, rather than for repeated single-Province turns).
The payload cards are stop cards, but some of them can be gained on the megaturn if you have any ironworks left, making ironworks the only non-replacing card for a long time. I guess you'd want the Coppersmith before the Beggar?
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amalloy

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2014, 04:07:55 pm »
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I don't think that beats Steward+Squire+money. With a bunch of Copper and no draw, you're not going to have an easy time lining up a 3 card combo.

I think you're right, but note that MV+Steward is theoretically a playable draw engine, enough to get a handful of each component into your hand all at once. Maybe unopposed you could get super-thin, play+trash 10 MVs, play 3 Stewards for draw, and use your remaining 8 actions on the 8 terminals in your hand. Something like two Squires for +6 buys, three Coppersmiths, and three Beggars can get a pretty cool megaturn: that's $48, for six Provinces if there are somehow that many left by the time you're ready (but there won't be). The potential payload is even greater if you can use some Havens as a mini-Tactician, starting with ten cards instead of five. I don't think it's fast enough to beat a more straightforward strategy, but it is possible to set up a giant megaturn if you build long enough.

So I tried out my megaturn strategy, with mixed results. It turns out to be pretty hard to play, because of the very weak draw, and the weird timing of Haven (you want to play them only on the turn before your megaturn, but on the turn before that it's very hard to avoid playing them, since they're stop cards otherwise). I'm also not sure what the ideal number of Ironworks is: 3 seems to work reasonably well, but  I have trouble being patient enough to trash them to clean up for the megaturn once I'm done with them. Really, adding any payload to this deck slows it down a lot.

The best I did was on my third try, getting a $50 turn with 7 buys on turn 16. Is that enough to beat Squire/Steward/money? Maybe not, but it's more competitive than I expected. I just played one game of Squire/Steward/money, and probably played it poorly, but if those two players had been against each other, it would have come down to first-player advantage: Steward+BM had only 25 points before turn 16 (a deficit the megaturn can overcome); picking up the fifth Province on turn 16 makes the megaturn fall short.

So, my conclusion is that the Coppersmith thing isn't really that great, but it's not a big nombo like HME seemed to be suggesting (at least if played as a megaturn, rather than for repeated single-Province turns).
The payload cards are stop cards, but some of them can be gained on the megaturn if you have any ironworks left, making ironworks the only non-replacing card for a long time. I guess you'd want the Coppersmith before the Beggar?

The amount of draw you have is just too small for that: it's just enough to megaturn once you add all the payload. You can't still have Ironworks on the big turn, because that three extra cards of draw is just too much. You can try to trash the Ironworks, but that puts things off even longer, and you're not guaranteed to line two of them up with a Steward given that your only draw is Steward and you only have three of them.

The only way I could make it work was by getting lucky with Havens, really, and thus giving myself an extra card or three of virtual draw.

Edit I had an interesting thought. Maybe you can increase reliability by adding extra Steward/Squire pairs? It won't help your total draw, but it seems like having more Stewards should get you through the deck more reliably, and you'll get the Squires you need to get your action count back up to 8. But then, I suppose having more Squires means you're less likely to draw each Steward, which comes close to cancelling out the benefit of adding them.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 04:10:35 pm by amalloy »
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silverspawn

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2014, 04:13:17 pm »
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yea I don't think coppersmith is a thing here. just go steward/BM and maybe a beggar late.

HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Coppersmith board
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 12:54:11 pm »
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Turn 16 is way too late. I think a lot of people don't appreciate how fast Steward+money is. It's really fast, especially with a way to gain Silver like Squire/Ironworks.
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