Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 44 45 [46]  All

Author Topic: TV shows  (Read 83262 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7147
  • Respect: +7974
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1125 on: October 10, 2018, 12:03:23 pm »
0

So I've started watching Lost. It's pretty addicting.

I watched it through for the 4th time a few months ago. Great stuff.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Qvist

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2381
  • Shuffle iT Username: Qvist
  • Respect: +4028
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1126 on: October 10, 2018, 12:10:09 pm »
0

I don't think this is a spoiler, but just to make sure in response to the "terrible ending": The terrible ending didn't make the whole season suck, just half of the 6th (last) season, its side storyline. Even in the finale the rest of the main storyline was amazing and tense throughout.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7147
  • Respect: +7974
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1127 on: October 10, 2018, 01:44:29 pm »
0

I made sure to avoid spoilers, but I'll capitulate.

"after they were rescued" is a pretty huge spoiler.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

silverspawn

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4075
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • ♦ Twilight ♦
  • Respect: +1796
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1128 on: October 10, 2018, 02:32:56 pm »
+1

Yeah, and                            Moat                  is an even bigger spoiler, I think.
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3351
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3686
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1129 on: October 10, 2018, 02:38:26 pm »
0

I don't think this is a spoiler, but just to make sure in response to the "terrible ending": The terrible ending didn't make the whole season suck, just half of the 6th (last) season, its side storyline. Even in the finale the rest of the main storyline was amazing and tense throughout.

The problem isn't just that ending that pretty much invalidates most of the last season. It's that all the time spent over that storyline is time not spent resolving the thousands of dangling plot points from previous seasons. Though it slowly became apparent a few seasons before the end that the series wasn't interesting in those, so it's not like it came like a huge surprise by then. Still, that's why I felt like I would have preferred never starting the show.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3718
  • Respect: +2133
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1130 on: October 10, 2018, 02:42:08 pm »
0

is a pretty huge spoiler.

You really think so? It's like Chekov's gun. You have people stranded on an island. That's kind of a foregone conclusion. I know it's not like that for classic shows like Gilligan's Island and Lost in Space, but those shows don't rely on an overarching plotline. In fact, those shows only work because they don't point in a specific direction. Lost did.

But in any case, I'll relent. Perhaps my definition of what is spoilerific is part of the minority.

Though if anything, I think the kinda is a bigger spoiler.
Logged
A man has no signature

Donald X.

  • Dominion Designer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5003
  • Respect: +20634
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1131 on: October 10, 2018, 06:27:31 pm »
0

I liked Lost. For a while they were good at coming up with surprises that would perk your interest. That was their big strength although they didn't always play to it. Season 4 is weak, season 5 is better, and then they wrapped it up in season 6 in a not-so-great way. It's interesting to try to consider, what do you do to fix up the ending, based on how far back you can change things. What if you can only change the last episode; what if you can change the last 4 or so; what if you can replace the last season.
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6459
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7814
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1132 on: October 10, 2018, 09:18:53 pm »
0

I just started Season 3. I thought Season 2 was great. I especially like the overarching them of people observing the same thing and taking different meaning from it, which is played on a lot of levels throughout.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7147
  • Respect: +7974
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1133 on: October 10, 2018, 10:36:42 pm »
0

I think in terms of raw quality, seasons 1 and 2 were the best. But I'm super entertained by the storylines of season 5. I was a little disappointed by the way the start of season 2 answered so many things. Season 1 had a large number of questions (Who had been on the island before? Why was there a polar bear? How are there man-made things like giant hatches in the ground?) which were all answered at the same time with "scientists once used this island as a place to run their programs and conduct experiments". It just felt like a lot of the initial mystery was gone (though quickly replaced with new mystery).
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1711
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1906
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1134 on: October 11, 2018, 07:35:57 am »
0

I made sure to avoid spoilers, but I'll capitulate.

I feel like saying "Then they changed it up and showed what happened to people after they were rescued" is a pretty big spoiler. I think one of the biggest surprises in the series is the revelation that what appears to be a flashback is actually a flashforward. There is plenty of room in the early seasons to speculate that they are actually dead, or that it's not possible to leave the island etc.

I also think it's a shame to tell someone who just started the series that the ending is disappointing. Others might disagree with me.

(For the record, I was really enjoying the flashsideways in S6 and excited for where they were going, and then the fact that they were just dead was a bit disappointing to me. But I would definitely still recommend the series as a whole.)
Logged

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3351
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3686
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1135 on: October 11, 2018, 08:03:25 am »
0

I think in terms of raw quality, seasons 1 and 2 were the best. But I'm super entertained by the storylines of season 5. I was a little disappointed by the way the start of season 2 answered so many things. Season 1 had a large number of questions (Who had been on the island before? Why was there a polar bear? How are there man-made things like giant hatches in the ground?) which were all answered at the same time with "scientists once used this island as a place to run their programs and conduct experiments". It just felt like a lot of the initial mystery was gone (though quickly replaced with new mystery).

I don’t think the polar bear was ever explained. “Scientists!” Is not an explanation. It might explain a colony of monkeys or some other lab animal, but not a polar bear in a tropical climate, years after the scientists left, especially if they don’t explain what experiment would require a friggin’ polar bear in the first place!
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3718
  • Respect: +2133
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1136 on: October 11, 2018, 08:36:22 am »
0

I didn't say Lost's ending was disappointing. In fact, I said the opposite. But you can't help how people feel about the ending. Does it taint a newbie's experience? Likely. After all, I haven't started Dexter yet, and part of the reason is because people generally feel that one of the seasons is particularly stinky. Maybe someday I'll watch it, but I have plenty in my queue, so Dexter is perpetually falling down the ladder for me.

One reason I wasn't disappointed with the ending of Lost was that I didn't interpret them as being dead this whole time. I took the events as literal.

As I said before, I forgot the specifics of that season to lead me to that conclusion, so I'm not in a good position to be able to defend my stance. I can only tell you how I felt after watching that episode, and that feeling doesn't jive with the general consensus. And I'm okay with that because my takeaway is more satisfying to me.

Though honestly, even if I do follow the general consensus, I don't think that would've bothered me either. Being disappointed with this would be like being disappointed with (different movie spoiler time) Jacob's Ladder's ending, which I highly regarded. Or any other story which happens as people are dying/dead. That just doesn't bother me as much.

Peer-reviewed movies and shows are how we sort out which entertainment we want to go with. I've followed up on some good suggestions on here and other groups of like-minded people. And even if a show has a disappointing ending (*cough* Seinfeld), the journey is still pretty damn fun. I'd sit through another finale of Lost that's as disappointing as most people make it out to be in order to sit through everything else.
Logged
A man has no signature

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3718
  • Respect: +2133
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1137 on: October 11, 2018, 08:49:34 am »
+1

I finished up the current season of Better Call Saul. Wow, Michael's story at the end was a goddamn punch to the face. Really well done. Now I regret removing it from my DVR because I think it may be worthwhile to compare that scene to the scene in Breaking Bad where Walter is pleading for his life and is placed on the phone to Jesse. And while there's an inclination to root for Michael to let Werner go, you know that he won't because you know his role in Breaking Bad.

And Jimmy's story was good too. You got to see how he's willing to use his brother's memory to get what he wants, and Kim is seeing that dark side of him. You know that Kim leaves the picture at some point since she's not in Breaking Bad, and it seems likely to be the result of greatly disagreeing with Jimmy's ethics. I originally thought she'd get too wrapped up in his schemes and take a huge fall for it, but this finale looks to me like she's more likely to get sick of his shit.

In a sense, it's a blessing and curse that Better Call Saul is a prequel to Breaking Bad. There are some characters you know are invincible, so you have some spoilers there, yet it doesn't diminish the tension because part of the thrill is watching how those characters get to where they are.

There's great potential for a prequel to fail to live up to the source material (*cough* Star Wars, not including Rogue One), but Better Call Saul is handling this masterfully.
Logged
A man has no signature

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7147
  • Respect: +7974
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1138 on: October 11, 2018, 09:25:41 am »
0

I think in terms of raw quality, seasons 1 and 2 were the best. But I'm super entertained by the storylines of season 5. I was a little disappointed by the way the start of season 2 answered so many things. Season 1 had a large number of questions (Who had been on the island before? Why was there a polar bear? How are there man-made things like giant hatches in the ground?) which were all answered at the same time with "scientists once used this island as a place to run their programs and conduct experiments". It just felt like a lot of the initial mystery was gone (though quickly replaced with new mystery).

I don’t think the polar bear was ever explained. “Scientists!” Is not an explanation. It might explain a colony of monkeys or some other lab animal, but not a polar bear in a tropical climate, years after the scientists left, especially if they don’t explain what experiment would require a friggin’ polar bear in the first place!

They may have left a lot of specifics out, but the video mentioned doing experiments on animals, and showed that polar bears were among those animals. I don't think the question of why the scientists chose to use polar bears would matter. If it's not realistic that polar bears could survive in the wild in a tropical climate after the scientists were no longer caring for them, then I see that more of a plot hole than a mystery.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3351
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3686
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1139 on: October 11, 2018, 09:57:23 am »
0

Let’s just say I disagree and leave it at that.
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2614
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3283
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1140 on: October 11, 2018, 11:41:18 am »
0

I am, as most know, a huge Lost defender. For me, the final season was not great, but the finale itself was a satisfactory emotional resolution to the characters' journeys.

I liked Lost. For a while they were good at coming up with surprises that would perk your interest. That was their big strength although they didn't always play to it. Season 4 is weak, season 5 is better, and then they wrapped it up in season 6 in a not-so-great way. It's interesting to try to consider, what do you do to fix up the ending, based on how far back you can change things. What if you can only change the last episode; what if you can change the last 4 or so; what if you can replace the last season.

I like this game!

I would go back to the fourth season, that's when the show started making decisions I didn't like, partly due to the impact of the writers strike, which forced a shorter episode count. Killing off Rousseau was a mistake that felt very unfair to the character, I would have had her survive, but still killed Karl and Alex the same way. I would also spare Michael, he should have survived the same way Jin survived.

At the beginning of season 5, I would stop the flaming arrow attack, which was way too random and unbelievably killed off all the background crash survivors. Their deaths made the whole "return to the island" thing sort of pointless--why did the Oceanic 6 have to go back? There was no one left alive on the island from the 815 crash except Sawyer, Locke, Rose, and Bernard, all of whom were perfectly happy not being rescued! In my rewrite, Michael survives and is part of the Dharma in the 70s plotline as well, Rousseau is with the group but opts to leave the island with Faraday, she then returns with him after Jacob visits her off-island and says she will see her daughter again if she comes back.

I would massively revise season 6. I felt John was ultimately mistreated by the storyline--I would have brought him back to life properly, during his burial. Flash "sideways" to him getting the job as the substitute teacher, then he's in the parking lot, he gets hit by the car Desmond is driving, cut back to his on-island funeral... his toe wiggles, and he wakes up. Disoriented, and being buried by his murder, Ben, he flees, and then meets up with Jacob who explains he has been temporarily revived but "is on borrowed time." His resurrection forces the Man in Black to assume Jack's dad's form for most of the rest of the season instead.

I have an entire new episode planned, to take place after "The Candidate" and before "What They Died For." The episode would be called "The Heron." John (and also Rousseau, and possibly Michael, remember they are still alive) go with Ben, Richard, Miles after the group splits. They rescue Desmond from the well, and then they encounter Dr. Chang, who has been waiting for them for years. He leads them to a Dharma station called "The Heron," it's an exact replica of the Swan. It can super-charge Desmond and make him resistant to the man in black and the Source and all that good Desmond stuff, but someone has to enter the code over and over again while the charging is happening, and it's going to destroy the station and kill that person. John volunteers--this is what he was meant for! As Desmond is charging, he uses the station's comms device to contact Jack, Swayer, Kate, and Hurley via radio/walkie/something, they have just survived the submarine sinking. John warns Jack that the next time they meet, it won't be John--the man in black will have his face again. Jack tells John he can't do this, he can't sacrifice himself. John says, "Don't tell me what I can't do." It's emotional! And then BOOM the station explodes.

I would have Michael escape the island to be reunited with Walt, and Rousseau can have a storyline where she helps Kate bring Claire back from the edges of madness.

There are other things but those are the big ones.

Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

michaeljb

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1394
  • Shuffle iT Username: michaeljb
  • Respect: +2017
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1141 on: October 11, 2018, 08:43:58 pm »
0

I finished up the current season of Better Call Saul. Wow, Michael's story at the end was a goddamn punch to the face. Really well done. Now I regret removing it from my DVR because I think it may be worthwhile to compare that scene to the scene in Breaking Bad where Walter is pleading for his life and is placed on the phone to Jesse. And while there's an inclination to root for Michael to let Werner go, you know that he won't because you know his role in Breaking Bad.

I felt that early on they played up Kai being the problem a bit too much; I was never convinced he was going to cause any real trouble. Still, l definitely didn't anticipate things with Werner going the way they did. Werner's phone call reminded me of a different Breaking Bad phone call scene--Walt's call to Skyler at the end of Ozymandias. I would be interested to watch it to compare with the scene you're talking about too.

Quote
And Jimmy's story was good too. You got to see how he's willing to use his brother's memory to get what he wants, and Kim is seeing that dark side of him. You know that Kim leaves the picture at some point since she's not in Breaking Bad, and it seems likely to be the result of greatly disagreeing with Jimmy's ethics. I originally thought she'd get too wrapped up in his schemes and take a huge fall for it, but this finale looks to me like she's more likely to get sick of his shit.

As I saw in some Reddit discussion, Kim's not necessarily out of Jimmy's life during Breaking Bad. Jimmy/Saul is only shown there as far as he is relevant to Walt and Jesse, so it's not totally unreasonable that Kim could still be in his life. It was heartbreaking to see her realize she had been taken in by Jimmy's charade the same way the bar was.

I continue to love this show and think it's great, but I was really disappointed by how little Jimmy and Mike interacted this season. It almost felt like two different shows stitched together.

Quote
In a sense, it's a blessing and curse that Better Call Saul is a prequel to Breaking Bad. There are some characters you know are invincible, so you have some spoilers there, yet it doesn't diminish the tension because part of the thrill is watching how those characters get to where they are.

There's great potential for a prequel to fail to live up to the source material (*cough* Star Wars, not including Rogue One), but Better Call Saul is handling this masterfully.


Still looking forward to seeing what exactly Jimmy and Nacho get up to that Saul thought could get him killed in Breaking Bad. Maybe it's still too early for that to happen--are we down to like 4 years before the start of Breaking Bad?--but right now the only idea I've got is getting rid of Lalo. Given his apparent position in the Salamanca family and absence from Breaking Bad, there's no way he survives all of Better Call Saul.

Edit: completely forgot that Saul references Lalo in that BB scene, guess he will be around for a while.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 01:27:18 am by michaeljb »
Logged

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6459
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7814
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1142 on: October 11, 2018, 10:37:00 pm »
0

I had a question about "The Long Con". I don't think this is a big spoiler, but just in case it's only season 2.

In the flashbacks, Sawyer is playing Cassidy (Madison from FTWD) for a large amount of money she was holding by getting her interested in conning and having her front the money for a fictional "long con". (She is the true long con.)  We have a scene between Sawyer and his partner where Sawyer says he wants to back out of the con, and his partner threatens him. The next flashback has Sawyer admitting to Cassidy that she was the target and their deal was fake, only to end up taking the money while he tells her to escape (switching the bags).

But why was the last "twist" necessary? If Sawyer had already decided to go through with the con, why not just go through with the fake deal? It seems like the extra twist was only for the viewers to think that Sawyer had actually decided to come clean, only to find out he's still a scoundrel.

The plan could have been to do the con this way from the beginning, but it seems unnecessary since an exchange is already set up, so again it seems like the extra step is just for the viewer to question Sawyer.

Is the idea here that Sawyer is actually splitting on his partner as well to keep the cash for himself, so he wanted to skip the exchange for the fake deal?


Also, something in Season 3 episode 7/8, Kate breaks the lock on Sawyer's cage and they end up staying together in the cage instead of escaping. Then when they do escape after a fight with the two captives, they close the cage door and Kate grabs a lock from the ground to lock the cage. But the lock could not have come from her cage as she escaped through the bars, and it's unlikely there just happened to be one lying around. So it was likely the one she broke off the cage in the first place. If you force open a lock like she did (with a rock or rod or something), wouldn't it break the locking mechanism?

Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7147
  • Respect: +7974
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1143 on: October 12, 2018, 01:07:29 am »
0

I had a question about "The Long Con". I don't think this is a big spoiler, but just in case it's only season 2.



But why was the last "twist" necessary? If Sawyer had already decided to go through with the con, why not just go through with the fake deal? It seems like the extra twist was only for the viewers to think that Sawyer had actually decided to come clean, only to find out he's still a scoundrel.

The plan could have been to do the con this way from the beginning, but it seems unnecessary since an exchange is already set up, so again it seems like the extra step is just for the viewer to question Sawyer.


Having seen this 4 times now, this exact same thing bugged me every time. I think it very likely is just a case of writing for the audience's benefit as you suggest, rather than following a consistent logic.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6459
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7814
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1144 on: October 12, 2018, 10:09:30 pm »
+1

I continue to love this show and think it's great, but I was really disappointed by how little Jimmy and Mike interacted this season. It almost felt like two different shows stitched together.

It's pretty clear in Breaking Bad, though, that Mike works for Gus and isn't that close to Saul. When Mike threatens Saul to give up Jessie, we need to believe that Mike is willing to hurt and kill Saul if needed. Mike and Gus also talk of Saul as "the lawyer", not as someone involved. The more they interact in Better Call Saul (even if just for business), the more difficult viewing the BB scenes, and Saul's fear of Mike, in the original context would be. Also, in Breaking Bad, Saul has never met Gus, so their plotlines here need to be somewhat separate, which necessitates some degree of separation between Jimmy and Mike.
Logged

pingpongsam

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1741
  • Shuffle iT Username: pingpongsam
  • Respect: +765
    • View Profile
Re: TV shows
« Reply #1145 on: October 16, 2018, 10:17:08 am »
0

I continue to love this show and think it's great, but I was really disappointed by how little Jimmy and Mike interacted this season. It almost felt like two different shows stitched together.

It's pretty clear in Breaking Bad, though, that Mike works for Gus and isn't that close to Saul. When Mike threatens Saul to give up Jessie, we need to believe that Mike is willing to hurt and kill Saul if needed. Mike and Gus also talk of Saul as "the lawyer", not as someone involved. The more they interact in Better Call Saul (even if just for business), the more difficult viewing the BB scenes, and Saul's fear of Mike, in the original context would be. Also, in Breaking Bad, Saul has never met Gus, so their plotlines here need to be somewhat separate, which necessitates some degree of separation between Jimmy and Mike.

Right, I thought that Hummel heist was sufficient breakdown in the Mike/Jimmy relationship to further this end.
Logged
You are the brashest scum player on f.ds.
Pages: 1 ... 44 45 [46]  All
 

Page created in 0.138 seconds with 21 queries.