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Author Topic: TV shows  (Read 279171 times)

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pingpongsam

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #150 on: February 11, 2015, 10:22:14 am »
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Really enjoyed the latest Walking Dead. I didn't check to see if it had an alternate director from the usual but it was definitely done differently and I liked the change of pace. It would not work as a continuous format, though.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #151 on: February 11, 2015, 10:28:28 am »
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Really enjoyed the latest Walking Dead. I didn't check to see if it had an alternate director from the usual but it was definitely done differently and I liked the change of pace. It would not work as a continuous format, though.

It was Greg Nicotero. He was on Talking Dead after. I think he only directs a few episodes a season.  I liked it.

But, dammit, I wanted Tyreese to live.  I was hoping they would go the other direction with his character and make him become more like Rick, and have him come into a more leadership role.  Like he was in the comics before (doublespoiler) he died(/doublespoiler).
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Voltaire

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #152 on: February 13, 2015, 02:15:56 am »
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Parks and Rec continues to knock it out of the park.  So many callbacks in tonight's episodes.

And in an organic way, too, wrapped in a layer of quality humor. Then filling. Then another layer of crust...
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #153 on: February 16, 2015, 09:39:03 pm »
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So just as I was coming here to say how much Gotham had improved from the first half, they bring back worst-character-ever Barbara.  Sigh.

Fish Mooney is still god awful.  I mean bad bad.. like.. why isn't she dead? 
Everything else is good.. I like the slow boil  they're doing with Bruce.

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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #154 on: February 16, 2015, 09:54:51 pm »
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Maybe if we start an online petition, they'll write Fish and Barbara out of the show?  I just don't get it..  they could have easily ended Fish's narrative  once Falcone found her out.. Before, she was bad, but at least she was serving a purpose (Penguin's arc).

The guy doing Riddler is excellent.  And, from what I can tell, the kid that is allegedly to become Joker is pretty good.  I haven't finished tonight's episode though.


.... god this Fish arc is so dumb.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #155 on: February 16, 2015, 11:18:54 pm »
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They can't write Barbara out of the show, she's canon!
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #156 on: February 17, 2015, 09:16:54 am »
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12 Monkeys is around the same as the first episode.. not bad, really, but not exactly compelling.  I feel like the idea is good, but it's just missing a little bit of something to make me actually get invested in the characters.  I like the grimness of it, though. 

The current saving graces of TV are Walking Dead and Better Call Saul.  I'm really excited for the rest of this season of The Walking  Dead, because in the interim I cheated and peeked at (read: binge-read all 130 some issues of) the comics.  I know some things will change, but the general plot points coming up are exciting and I think will be really interesting to see on screen.

Better Call Saul is just good, and I'm not really sure why.  I feel that even if I didn't watch Breaking Bad, I would still be just as interested and invested in the character.  I don't really understand what this show does different that, say, 12 Monkeys doesn't, but it's like I'm excited to see every new development, and I find myself hoping a particular choice/revelation doesn't go bad for Saul. 
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Kuildeous

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #157 on: February 17, 2015, 09:21:39 am »
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They can't write Barbara out of the show, she's canon!

Not having read the Batman comics, how important is she to canon? I've really only played the Arkham series, so I base my canon on that. I've not heard mention of Gordon's wife/ex-wife/prom date/whatever. I've only heard of his daughter, which judging by her name being Barbara as well, I figure that means that he named her in memory of his lost love. So I'm waiting for Gotham to kill off Barbara. But like I said, I am pretty ignorant of the canon except for what's fed to me through the video games.

Finally finished watching American Horror Story: Freakshow. The end episodes always seem to be a bit of a letdown for me. I'm not sure why. The carnival arc was appropriately depressing, though I'm sad that the only survivors are those who cowered or showed up late. They did show Amazon Eve's strength, but it ended for naught. Elsa's arc was slow to build, but I liked how she resolved her past. I suppose it was still a pretty good episode, but I expected more from the finale. That's probably my fault for building it up in my head.

And hey I also finished up Franklin & Bash season. I had been putting it off because I missed the first episode of the season and was hoping to catch it on DVR again. It never happened, so I skipped it. I still appreciate the writing of this show, but the plot is starting to drag, and it looks like they're really stretching with this finale.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #158 on: February 17, 2015, 04:00:35 pm »
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Not having read the Batman comics, how important is she to canon?

I'm not super familiar with the comics either, but I like to look up characters as they come up on the shows.  As I understand it, Barbara Kean actually married Jim, and one of their children is Batgirl Barbara.  Specifics of her story are mixed up due to retcons, but she obviously has a prominent role in the comics.

In all seriousness though, it would be nice if they actually did something that shook up comic book continuity.  As it is, the show has fewer stakes because we can pretty much assume that most of the important characters have plot armor.  Jim can't die, Penguin can't die, Riddler can't die.  But as I said near the start of this thread, they could bring back that tension by doing something legitimately surprising.  Kill off one of the future-super-villains and reveal that the actual super villain is somebody else assuming that identity.  Actually deviate from the comic book sources.

The latter is a tricky subject though.  Surely there are fans who would be upset if they aren't faithful to the comics.  But really, comic book continuity is a mess anyways, isn't it?  Retcons and all?  The multiverse?  The TV shows could be their own slice of the multiverse that doesn't necessarily match up to the comics.  Arrow and Flash deviate plenty already, and I think that's for the best.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #159 on: February 23, 2015, 10:33:21 pm »
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Fish still has scenes... Why is she still in this show? :(
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eHalcyon

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #160 on: February 24, 2015, 02:57:09 am »
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Fish still has scenes... Why is she still in this show? :(

Some people like her.  Like, the AV Club reviews have a mostly positive view of Fish, Penguin, Falcone and Bruce, and a largely negative view on everything else.
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Kuildeous

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #161 on: February 24, 2015, 08:17:39 am »
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Fish still has scenes... Why is she still in this show? :(

Part of it I suspect is because the character is a strong female. There aren't many of those in TV, so the presence of a strong female character—especially a villain—may make up for the awkwardness of her scenes. I'm still two episodes behind, so I just barely got into the mystery prison. Already that arc is making me scratch my head. Hopefully it's been explained already.

I saw someone post that she just wants a female villain who is simply evil. None of this crap about the villain being a villain because she's been spurned by a man or is trying to prove herself to a man. She has her own internal motivations, and she will do whatever it takes to achieve her goals. To that extent, I think Fish fits that pretty well.

Still digging the Flash. I think the Man in Yellow plot is dragging a bit, but they're still keeping everything else fresh. And it's pretty cool to see a major DC villain that isn't Joker or Lex. I don't know that much about the comics, but I do recall a little bit about Grodd. Of course, this version is a lot more brutal than the Grodd I grew up with.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #162 on: February 24, 2015, 08:50:29 am »
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You can be a strong female character and not be a cringeworthy waste of episode time...
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #163 on: February 24, 2015, 08:51:20 am »
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Fish still has scenes... Why is she still in this show? :(

Some people like her.  Like, the AV Club reviews have a mostly positive view of Fish, Penguin, Falcone and Bruce, and a largely negative view on everything else.

Are they watching a different show?  Is there a version where it's not bad?
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Kuildeous

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #164 on: February 24, 2015, 10:34:28 am »
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You can be a strong female character and not be a cringeworthy waste of episode time...

I agree, but in a sense, she's providing something sadly unique in television. Compared to Barbara, Fish is a champ.

At least she's not Keanu bad. Considering that this is a world that more resembles Dick Tracy than CSI, Fish's over-the-top representation is actually at home here.

But the boat scene was ridiculous. It was an obvious ploy to try to get people excited about the next week. Ooh, Fish is getting all vicious. This will be an awesome fight. I'm tuning in next week for sure…oh, she got captured.

Each time Fish does something stupid or annoying, my wife just tells the TV, "Ha, you're not canon." I certainly would not be upset to see Fish gone for good. If she is somehow getting positive reviews, I have a suspicion she won't be. The writers will probably do something foolish like have her work under Penguin. In that instance, the show may very well jump the fish.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #165 on: February 24, 2015, 10:35:26 am »
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Every time someone annoys me in real life, I'm just going to say "Ha, you're not cannon." to them and walk away.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #166 on: February 24, 2015, 12:51:23 pm »
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I think the problem is that Gotham is having a tough time choosing between "over the top super hero/villain show" and "tough, gritty cop drama".  Fish is clearly hamming it up, and some people see that as delightful scenery-chewing and scene-stealing, whereas others just see it as cheesy and ridiculous.

I mostly like Fish.  I think she's interesting, and being non-canon means her story can go anywhere.  She could actually be killed off, so there are stakes in her storyline.  I prefer the cheesy zaniness over the gritty but bland predictability of most everything else.
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Kuildeous

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #167 on: February 24, 2015, 01:35:11 pm »
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I think the problem is that Gotham is having a tough time choosing between "over the top super hero/villain show" and "tough, gritty cop drama".  Fish is clearly hamming it up, and some people see that as delightful scenery-chewing and scene-stealing, whereas others just see it as cheesy and ridiculous.

I think you may right about that.

It wasn't the first time I referred to Gotham as a relative of Dick Tracy. Lots of over-the-top, goofy villains and hard-boiled detectives. The balloon killer was pretty ridiculous, something more closely related to the '60s series if it weren't for the lethality.

I'm okay with the genre-crossing. It doesn't astound me, but I find it enjoyable enough.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #168 on: February 24, 2015, 01:44:22 pm »
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I think the problem is that Gotham is having a tough time choosing between "over the top super hero/villain show" and "tough, gritty cop drama".  Fish is clearly hamming it up, and some people see that as delightful scenery-chewing and scene-stealing, whereas others just see it as cheesy and ridiculous.

I think you may right about that.

It wasn't the first time I referred to Gotham as a relative of Dick Tracy. Lots of over-the-top, goofy villains and hard-boiled detectives. The balloon killer was pretty ridiculous, something more closely related to the '60s series if it weren't for the lethality.

I'm okay with the genre-crossing. It doesn't astound me, but I find it enjoyable enough.

Thing is, ridiculous and over the top is not bad.  It's not that Fish is over the top; it's that her scenes are just bad.   I don't have an issue with any of the other villains.

Plus, that she wasn't simply killed in any of the last five episodes is silly.  Crime boss is going to tie her up in a dungeon and torture her?  Uh, no, bullet to the head, toss in the river, done.  Evil doctors see she's causing a prisoner uprising and organizing resistance?  Okay, pull her off, slit her throat, done.  Business as usual.  Okay maybe steal some organs or whatever. 

The contrast between making Gotham an actual city where bad things can happen and the nonseriousness of the criminals is a big putoff.  Kid murdering his mom was a good direction to move.  Fish being alive is a huge step back from that.

And of course, the fact that the character is *awful* and the writers should be dancing through any hoops they can to kill this character off no matter how awkward it might make the writing, but they've literally had her death scenario handed to them on a silver platter multiple times and chose to write her out of dying in uncomfortably absurd ways.

Kill Fish, kill Barbara, you have a good show.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #169 on: February 24, 2015, 03:50:50 pm »
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I really don't see how Fish's scenes are "just bad" compared to the rest.  Sure, she probably should have died a bunch of times, but that's no more absurd than how Gordon solves most of his cases by sheer luck rather than actual solid detective work.  I don't think the character is awful, at least no more so than several others.  What specifically about her character turns you off?

I expect that Fish actually will die eventually, because she's about the only character who can die.  They can't kill Barbara if they want to stick anywhere close to source material, though I would be impressed if they did.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #170 on: February 24, 2015, 03:55:46 pm »
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I really don't see how Fish's scenes are "just bad" compared to the rest.  Sure, she probably should have died a bunch of times, but that's no more absurd than how Gordon solves most of his cases by sheer luck rather than actual solid detective work.  I don't think the character is awful, at least no more so than several others.  What specifically about her character turns you off?

I expect that Fish actually will die eventually, because she's about the only character who can die.  They can't kill Barbara if they want to stick anywhere close to source material, though I would be impressed if they did.

The way she talks, mostly.  And how they're trying so hard to point out how "badass" she is.
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SwitchedFromStarcraft

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #171 on: February 24, 2015, 03:56:55 pm »
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So upthread I read a comment about a character I've missed, or something, so help me out.  Penguin is obvious, Ed Nygma (clever there) will be the Riddler, but I missed a Joker-to-be character?  Who is that?  (And I'm now two episodes behind, so Fish has just taken over the underground slum after slitting the "boss's" throat, if that matters to the explanation).
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Kuildeous

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #172 on: February 24, 2015, 04:25:08 pm »
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So upthread I read a comment about a character I've missed, or something, so help me out.  Penguin is obvious, Ed Nygma (clever there) will be the Riddler, but I missed a Joker-to-be character?  Who is that?  (And I'm now two episodes behind, so Fish has just taken over the underground slum after slitting the "boss's" throat, if that matters to the explanation).

You are at the same point as me. There has not been a Joker reference yet.

But…the scenes from next week (so the current penultimate episode) hint at a Joker character. I think it'll happen in the two most recent episodes.

I kind of hoped they wouldn't try to force the Joker in there. Oh well, too bad.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #173 on: February 24, 2015, 04:29:34 pm »
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The upcoming episode is, I would say, a good one. I'm not too concerned about that issue.

(By upcoming I mean the one you were talking about, the 2/16 episode.)
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eHalcyon

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Re: New TV shows (American edition)
« Reply #174 on: February 24, 2015, 04:52:10 pm »
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I really don't see how Fish's scenes are "just bad" compared to the rest.  Sure, she probably should have died a bunch of times, but that's no more absurd than how Gordon solves most of his cases by sheer luck rather than actual solid detective work.  I don't think the character is awful, at least no more so than several others.  What specifically about her character turns you off?

I expect that Fish actually will die eventually, because she's about the only character who can die.  They can't kill Barbara if they want to stick anywhere close to source material, though I would be impressed if they did.

The way she talks, mostly.  And how they're trying so hard to point out how "badass" she is.

Different strokes, I guess.  I think Fish's character is pretty interesting, and ridiculousness with her doesn't stand out any more to me than ridiculousness with the other characters.  I agree that Barbara isn't being used very well, and they could do better with Fish.  But I think they could do better with most of the cast.
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