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Author Topic: TV shows  (Read 72050 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #775 on: March 21, 2017, 09:37:46 am »
+1

DD, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage are strides ahead of shows like Flash, Gotham.  I haven't watched Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, or Arrow, but I can't imagine they're much better than Flash.

I agree that Iron Fist falls below the other Netflix Defender shows, but I'd still rate it above the network DC shows.  I think it picks up after the first few episodes, too.  I'm liking it more at around six episodes.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #776 on: March 21, 2017, 09:42:08 am »
0

Westworld. That's all. Watch it.

Totally agree, I thoughly enjoyed every minute of westworld however, I was a bit disappointed by the multiple timelines reveal. It felt a little bit like the (lost spoiler) ->smoke monster/man in black reveal, where they created such an amazing world and allowed your imagination to run wild for long enough that the eventual answer will never be as exciting as what was in your head. back to westworld -> also I wished the tech who helps mave escape was a more believable charachter. I wished Anthony Hopkins had interacted with him more and perhaps given him a slight sense of approval which caused him to feel it was okay to help mave. As it happened she was extremely threatening to him and his friend and they had multiple opportunities while she was back in the park where any rational person would have cut their losses and said something.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #777 on: March 21, 2017, 09:58:32 am »
0

DD, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage are strides ahead of shows like Flash, Gotham.  I haven't watched Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, or Arrow, but I can't imagine they're much better than Flash.

I agree that Iron Fist falls below the other Netflix Defender shows, but I'd still rate it above the network DC shows.  I think it picks up after the first few episodes, too.  I'm liking it more at around six episodes.

I agree DD and Jessica jones are much better standalone series than any of the D.C. shows but being a big D.C. fan and already haiving watched all but the recent season it's very easy to get enjoyment out of the D.C. shows and dardevil season 2 left me a little disappointed. So essentially do you think luke cage was better or worse than dardevil season one/two and then Jessica jones.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #778 on: March 21, 2017, 10:03:04 am »
0

Hm.. it's hard to say.  I actually think Daredevil Season 2 was fantastic.  Jon Bernthal basically stole the show.  I might rate it as Jessica Jones > DD2 > DD1 > Luke Cage, but I think they're all pretty close. 
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #779 on: March 21, 2017, 10:32:53 am »
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I think JJ was the best overall show but it dragged in parts as it seemed there wasn't enough story to hit the episode count. DD season 2 had a fantastic first half, but the second half was a mess. LC had a similar issue.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #780 on: March 21, 2017, 10:42:48 am »
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Okay so from what I'm hearing it's what I feared. I agree Jon berenthal was fantastic but overall DD season two was cut into theee clear parts that didn't have a great overall story arc and the punisher portion was the only good part. If Luke cage and iron fist don't really stand up to Jessica jones I think I'm going to have to drop the marvel shows.

At least in Legends of tomorrow I get to watch what would happen if wentworth Miller's character from prison break was on a superhero team and the actors on that show are pretty great overall. The flash I enjoy because I'm just a flash fanboy and so I think it's worth sucking it up and watching arrow/supergirl instead of luke cage/iron fist because of the crossover.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #781 on: March 21, 2017, 10:49:58 am »
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I don't think Luke Cage is really a drop in quality compare to Jessica Jones; Luke Cage was great.  I found the Jessica Jones character and individual struggle the most compelling of the heroes, I think.  Luke Cage is definitely good.  I'm only halfway through Iron Fist; so far it isn't as good as the others, but I think it's still worth watching.
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pingpongsam

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #782 on: March 21, 2017, 11:22:19 am »
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I thought Jessica Jones was awful and could not finish it. There was no way I was going to try Luke Cage after that. I do like Daredevil, though.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #783 on: March 21, 2017, 11:28:47 am »
0

I thought Jessica Jones was awful and could not finish it. There was no way I was going to try Luke Cage after that. I do like Daredevil, though.
Interesting, what didn't you like about Jessica jones? I'm curious as your probably the first person I've heard who didn't like that the most even if only by a little bit.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #784 on: March 21, 2017, 11:45:18 am »
0

I thought Jessica Jones was awful and could not finish it. There was no way I was going to try Luke Cage after that. I do like Daredevil, though.

I don't understand.  Why would Luke Cage quality be dependent on Jessica Jones but not Daredevil?
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #785 on: March 21, 2017, 11:50:05 am »
0

I thought Jessica Jones was awful and could not finish it. There was no way I was going to try Luke Cage after that. I do like Daredevil, though.

I don't understand.  Why would Luke Cage quality be dependent on Jessica Jones but not Daredevil?

The character is introduced in JJ and I didn't care for the LC character.
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ashersky

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #786 on: March 21, 2017, 11:52:44 am »
0

Question to the people who watched iron fist, how would you rank it with DD 1/2, Jessica jones, and Luke cage. I'm a huge superhero/comic fan but I only have so much time for B tier television and DD, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron fist, Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tommorow is way too much B tier.

Currently I am one season behind on all the D.C. shows and haven't watched luke cage or iron fist yet. Im now stuck in a pickle because the flash is by far my favorite of the shows though Jessica Jones was really really good. Arrow has become a pretty awful show and and having to watch all four D.C. shows to get the most out of flash and legends is annoying. However on the other hand I think daredevil season two was not great and I'm worried luke cage and iron fist will be mediocre as well leading to a super disappointing defenders show.

I watch all the shows except Gotham and Agent Carter, I believe.  Here are my rankings, if this helps.  For reference, I am caught up on all Defender shows except Iron Fist, all of Agents of Shield through S3, and am current on all DC shows on network TV.

Marvel shows, from best to worst: DD, JJ, LC, AoS
DC shows, from best to worst: Arrow, Flash, Legends, Supergirl

In both cases, AoS and SG fall way behind the other series.  If I were to combine...

Arrow, DD, Flash, Legends, JJ, LC, AoS, Supergirl I think.

I will watch Iron Fist and AoS S4 eventually.  I do plan on seeing Agent Carter whenever it ends up free on Netflix, but not before.  Gotham is there and I should watch it, but just can't get excited about it.

Oh, and there's that new X-Men show, right?  Forgot about it, and it's not MCU anyway.  I have seen the movies, though, so I'll get around to it.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #787 on: March 21, 2017, 11:57:40 am »
+1

New XMen show would be Legion, and it's of an entirely different type.  Kind of like how Logan was a very different movie than any other superhero movie.

Legion is fantastic; better than any other superhero-based show, I would say.  But it's hard to compare; it's not really of the same genre.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #788 on: March 21, 2017, 01:11:39 pm »
0

Thanks ash that's pretty much exactly the opinion I was looking for!

Marvel shows, from best to worst: DD, JJ, LC, AoS

DC shows, from best to worst: Arrow, Flash, Legends, Supergirl

In both cases, AoS and SG fall way behind the other series.

Arrow, DD, Flash, Legends, JJ, LC, AoS, Supergirl I think.

Gotham is there and I should watch it, but just can't get excited about it.

Good to know I'm not missing much by not watching aos.
I'm curious if you put arrow above flash based on overall series or current running. I think seasons one and two of arrow are probably the best seasons of any of the shows shows named. I still think the fact that arrow waited till like season 5 to pay off the whole ollie is of course just as talented with a gun as he is with a bow joke. It was an easy laugh they could have done at any time but it really tickled me because I wasn't expecting it after that long.
Gotham...it's there...but you don't need to watch it.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #789 on: March 21, 2017, 01:29:26 pm »
0

Thanks ash that's pretty much exactly the opinion I was looking for!

Marvel shows, from best to worst: DD, JJ, LC, AoS

DC shows, from best to worst: Arrow, Flash, Legends, Supergirl

In both cases, AoS and SG fall way behind the other series.

Arrow, DD, Flash, Legends, JJ, LC, AoS, Supergirl I think.

Gotham is there and I should watch it, but just can't get excited about it.

Good to know I'm not missing much by not watching aos.
I'm curious if you put arrow above flash based on overall series or current running. I think seasons one and two of arrow are probably the best seasons of any of the shows shows named. I still think the fact that arrow waited till like season 5 to pay off the whole ollie is of course just as talented with a gun as he is with a bow joke. It was an easy laugh they could have done at any time but it really tickled me because I wasn't expecting it after that long.
Gotham...it's there...but you don't need to watch it.

I think I rank Arrow higher because I want to be Oliver Queen.

I do love Flash, but it loses points for the first half of this season up to Invasion!  Arrow, especially earlier seasons, is really grounded in interesting dilemmas -- not just superhero beat bad guy save girl stuff, which I like.  It also has a good mix of actual superpowers, mystical stuff, and just strong dudes to not fall into some usual traps.

I mean, they all have stupid head scratch moments, but nothing like "why didn't Flash just flash over and take everything out?"

That's one thing AoS does right with Yo-Yo.

Plus, Felicity > Iris as both sidekick and will they/won't they love interest.

Plus, Barrowman was/is awesome.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #790 on: March 21, 2017, 07:53:05 pm »
+1

I've watched all of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage, and last night finished through episode 6 of Iron Fist.  So far I would rank them:

Daredevil (season 1)>>Luke Cage>>>>>>>Daredevil (season 2)>>Iron Fist>>>>>>Jessica Jones

But Jessica Jones is a bit of a weird case, because there are some things in it that are incredibly well done.  The main reason I didn't like it was because I found the inconsistencies way too distracting to suspend my disbelief*.  It also sort of bothered me that the fighting was awful, and that Jessica didn't really need to be a superhero, and also that they gave her the most generic superpowers ever, which made it feel like she only had superpowers because Marvel feels obligated to make all their main characters superheros (I know it's based on the comics, but that's still how it feels to me).

*Like, the scene in episode 7 where Jessica comes out of the confession room and everyone is holding a gun to their head or to someone else's head.  That was a really cool scene, but then it ended with Killgrave telling them in 30 seconds they would all think it was a hilarious joke.  Why doesn't he just do that all the time?  How come he can make this effect "permanent", but not others?  And he can also plant a "time bomb" (say "you will do this in 30 seconds", and then walk out of the room, and then it happens)?  Why doesn't he ever do that any other time?  Then in episode 9 he tells Trish to put a bullet in her head, and then when we see her in episode 10, she's sitting there hitting a bullet against her head, saying "I have to get this in my head".
 How come no one else is allowed to take his commands literally like that?  If you're allowed to do that, it seems like you can be immune to Killgrave by just being super pedantic all the time (he would be no match for f.ds).  And up until that point I had always assumed that when Killgrave tells you to do something, you have to do it as soon as possible, because otherwise, you could just say, okay I'll do that in 30 years (by which point the effect would have worn off, except maybe not because they're not consistent about that).  But Trish deliberately finding a workaround contradicts that.
  Also, how do they know about the limitations on Killgrave's powers (time, distance, etc.)?  I assume that's not something he openly advertises, and it seems non-trivial to run tests to figure it out.  He could just be faking inability to mess with you.  Also, I never understood why killing Riva magically made Jessica immune to Killgrave's powers.

So anyway, that's my issue with Jessica Jones.  I thought Luke Cage was fantastic.  I guess I really liked him as a character because I found him really relatable (he's quiet, doesn't like attention).  I liked how, like Daredevil, there wasn't always one clear bad guy on top; there's just a collection of people with independent motives that end up conflicting.  I do think the stuff involving Diamondback sort of felt like it was there to fit in to the standard superhero archetype.  The fighting certainly was not as good as Daredevil.  I think Luke Cage (the show, not the character) handled racial issues very well too.

Daredevil season 1 was incredible, possibly the best non-comedy thing I've ever watched (I don't like trying to compare comedies and non-comedies).  Season 2 had a lot of the same things that made season 1 great, but the plot got messy and I had a lot of trouble following it in the later episodes.

So far Iron Fist doesn't live up to my expectations (which, to be fair, were unreasonably high).  It started off slow but got a lot better starting in episode 4.  I'm hoping it continues to get better, but after episode 6 I'm not optimistic about the quality of the fight scenes.  I was expecting them to be on par with Daredevil, but the abundance of cuts is making them hard to follow.  It is oddly satisfying, though, every time someone throws a punch and Danny's head is just immediately not where his opponent was aiming.  I did think some of the fights involving Colleen were really good.
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Kuildeous

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #791 on: March 23, 2017, 07:56:18 am »
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Regarding Trish in Jessica Jones:

I may have to rewatch that, but I don't view it as Trish intentionally warping Killian's words. If I recall, she tried to shoot herself in the head, but her gun jammed. Having no other gun around (though was the cop killed in that room by then?), she had to carry out the order as best she could. I suppose if I had to gripe about that, it's because she couldn't think of anything better than ramming it against her skull. She could have used a pre-existing opening such as an ear or a nostril. Or even the mouth, as Jessica pointed out.

It's kind of like how Killian explained how shocking it was when he first told someone to go fuck himself. Sure, that's impossible, but if you are compelled to do so, apparently you'll do whatever it takes to try to carry it out. Without a timer, apparently people will try to carry it out as immediately as possible. Trish technically had plenty of time to go out, find a gun, and put a bullet in her head.


I can't disagree with the inconsistency though. The police station scene did not sit well with me at first. That was before I knew that he could tack on conditional statements, so I guess my real beef was assuming the audience knew that when they didn't show an example of it earlier (to my recollection).
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #792 on: March 23, 2017, 08:55:09 am »
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Regarding Trish in Jessica Jones:

I may have to rewatch that, but I don't view it as Trish intentionally warping Killian's words. If I recall, she tried to shoot herself in the head, but her gun jammed. Having no other gun around (though was the cop killed in that room by then?), she had to carry out the order as best she could. I suppose if I had to gripe about that, it's because she couldn't think of anything better than ramming it against her skull. She could have used a pre-existing opening such as an ear or a nostril. Or even the mouth, as Jessica pointed out.

Oh, I guess I missed that.  That one's not so bad then.  Although then it seems pretty lucky that her gun jammed.  Maybe there was a reason for that (besides we don't want to kill an important character), I'd have to re-watch it.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #793 on: March 23, 2017, 10:01:46 am »
0

Regarding Trish in Jessica Jones:

I may have to rewatch that, but I don't view it as Trish intentionally warping Killian's words. If I recall, she tried to shoot herself in the head, but her gun jammed. Having no other gun around (though was the cop killed in that room by then?), she had to carry out the order as best she could. I suppose if I had to gripe about that, it's because she couldn't think of anything better than ramming it against her skull. She could have used a pre-existing opening such as an ear or a nostril. Or even the mouth, as Jessica pointed out.

Oh, I guess I missed that.  That one's not so bad then.  Although then it seems pretty lucky that her gun jammed.  Maybe there was a reason for that (besides we don't want to kill an important character), I'd have to re-watch it.

Problems like the one described above didn't bother me anywhere near as much as the fighting in daredevil season 2. They wanted to have their cake (have Matt use all the cool DD moves) and eat it to (have DD be a "tough" guy who takes just as many hits as he dishes out). Anytime Matt goes into a battle they have to force him to do really stupid things like throw his cane/nunchucks and not pick them back up even though we see him bouncing it off walls to perfectly hit people's temples or hit multiple people.

I've heard the combat in iron fist isn't any better. The super fast editing and blurred noises are the main reason I'm cutting the marvel shows in favor of D.C. Ash did bring up a good point with the flash occasionally being frustrating as he isn't flashing all over the place, but untill he learns to speed think I'm okay writing it off as Barry Allen being a dumb kid. I like the idea that Ollie constantly teases Barry, if he had the flashes powers there would be zero crime in about a month...
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Kuildeous

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #794 on: March 23, 2017, 10:44:36 am »
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Oh, I guess I missed that.  That one's not so bad then.  Although then it seems pretty lucky that her gun jammed.  Maybe there was a reason for that (besides we don't want to kill an important character), I'd have to re-watch it.

A lot of drama and close calls that we get in entertainment can be chalked up to dumb luck.

And luck does play into a lot of things in real life too. I may have missed a fatal accident because a construction crew caused me to reach a certain point 2 minutes later. That's not as dramatic as, say, a falling piano missing someone by inches.

Most of the time, a show will have luck be on the side of a protagonist. Of course, not always, and that's what can make a show exciting. I got burned out on 24, but part of the joy of the first few seasons was that no character was immune (except for Jack Bauer). It made the deaths more poignant, I felt.
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eHalcyon

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #795 on: March 23, 2017, 05:55:59 pm »
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I'm caught up on all the superhero shows!  In general, I think the Marvel shows are higher quality than the DC ones.  Arrow, Flash, Legends and Supergirl are all really cheesy and they seem to tread the same ground over and over again.  It's like every few weeks they have to learn the same lessons again (especially: don't lie to your teammates and hold back important, relevant information).  I still enjoy the shows, but they feel like "guilty pleasure" shows to me.

Agents of Shield is actually one of my favourites right now.  The first half of season 1 was pretty bad, but it's gotten better and better since then.  Season 4 has been excellent. 

I really liked Agent Carter for the different perspective it offered.  Shame it got dropped.

I liked all of the Netflix shows but my memory fails me on the specifics of each.  I just have my general impressions of them.

If I were to rank everything right now... I think it would be something like:

Legion > [DD, JJ, LC, AC] > AoS > [IF, Flash, Arrow] > [LoT, Supergirl] >> Gotham

Where things in brackets are a bit nebulous.
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Re: TV shows
« Reply #796 on: March 23, 2017, 06:00:22 pm »
0

Iron Fist has gotten way, way better since the first few episodes.  I think the issues of writing/acting/whatever are still there, but the plot and characters get more interesting.  It's a bit opposite of my reaction to the other Netflix Defender shows, which grabbed my interest right from the beginning .

I think I'm on episode 10. 
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #797 on: March 23, 2017, 07:15:48 pm »
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Another thing in Jessica Jones I forgot to mention (well, I sort of alluded to it I guess):

If Killgrave can tell people how to think ("you will all think this is a hilarious joke"), and especially if those thoughts stick permanently, then why doesn't he just finish everything he does by saying "You will forget about this" or "You will think you did this willingly" (or even just "you will think this was a joke", since he's obviously capable of using that one)?

Regarding Trish in Jessica Jones:

I may have to rewatch that, but I don't view it as Trish intentionally warping Killian's words. If I recall, she tried to shoot herself in the head, but her gun jammed. Having no other gun around (though was the cop killed in that room by then?), she had to carry out the order as best she could. I suppose if I had to gripe about that, it's because she couldn't think of anything better than ramming it against her skull. She could have used a pre-existing opening such as an ear or a nostril. Or even the mouth, as Jessica pointed out.

Oh, I guess I missed that.  That one's not so bad then.  Although then it seems pretty lucky that her gun jammed.  Maybe there was a reason for that (besides we don't want to kill an important character), I'd have to re-watch it.

Problems like the one described above didn't bother me anywhere near as much as the fighting in daredevil season 2. They wanted to have their cake (have Matt use all the cool DD moves) and eat it to (have DD be a "tough" guy who takes just as many hits as he dishes out). Anytime Matt goes into a battle they have to force him to do really stupid things like throw his cane/nunchucks and not pick them back up even though we see him bouncing it off walls to perfectly hit people's temples or hit multiple people.

I've heard the combat in iron fist isn't any better. The super fast editing and blurred noises are the main reason I'm cutting the marvel shows in favor of D.C. Ash did bring up a good point with the flash occasionally being frustrating as he isn't flashing all over the place, but untill he learns to speed think I'm okay writing it off as Barry Allen being a dumb kid. I like the idea that Ollie constantly teases Barry, if he had the flashes powers there would be zero crime in about a month...

I don't know...Jessica Jones is the sort of show that you're supposed to really think about, so it's a pretty big problem to me that it falls apart when you think about it.  You could say the same thing applies to your complaints about DD season 2, but I don't think that's such an important place to fall apart.  That is, the plot lines in DD are what you're supposed to be thinking about, not the action.

That being said, I don't really remember thinking there was anything wrong with the fighting in DD 2 and maybe if I did I would agree with you.  Daredevil (both seasons) is pretty hazy to me now.  I'm not really trying to say JJ is objectively a bad show, just trying to explain why I personally didn't like it as much as the others (I still liked it overall, but the other shows set the bar pretty high).

Iron Fist has gotten way, way better since the first few episodes.  I think the issues of writing/acting/whatever are still there, but the plot and characters get more interesting.  It's a bit opposite of my reaction to the other Netflix Defender shows, which grabbed my interest right from the beginning .

I think I'm on episode 10. 

Definitely agree with this.  I finished up through episode 8 last night and it has gotten quite good, at least in terms of plot and character development.  The fighting is no where near what I hoped it would be.
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Jorbles

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #798 on: March 24, 2017, 02:53:06 pm »
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I think it depends on what you are looking for in each of the shows. Daredevil probably has the best fight scenes, Legion the best plot and cinematography, Jessica Jones the most interesting themes.

Iron Fist is probably the most disappointing. Iron Fist is supposedly a martial arts show, but the action is mostly pretty forgettable. I liked the scene with the drunken master, but that was just because they focused a little more on the other actor. I'm actually watching Iron Fist while I write this, it's definitely the worst of the Marvel shows I've seen. I didn't like Agents of Shield when the plots got too tied into themselves, but it had it's moments.

Legion on the other hand is probably the most compelling of the shows, but it doesn't even feel like it's in the same universe as the other shows. It's got mutants and the X symbol everywhere, but it certainly doesn't feel like a superhero show in the sense that every other show we've been discussing is.

Jessica Jones is terrible if you look at the details too hard (inconsistencies with Kilgrave's powers, why is Jessica Jones a super hero at all, does she ever do detective work unrelated to Kilgrave), but it's probably the most interesting when you look at it as more of an allegory for those who survive abuse and overcome it. It's got interesting trappings. Luke Cage does similar things along a different theme.

If I had to rate the Marvel shows I'd say:

Legion >>>>>>>>>>>>> Daredevil (season 1) > Jessica Jones > Daredevil (season 2) > Luke Cage > Agent Carter > Agents of Shield > Iron Fist (I can barely pay attention to it when the Meachum's/Hogarth/Claire aren't on screen).
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Jorbles

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Re: TV shows
« Reply #799 on: March 24, 2017, 02:56:42 pm »
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Of the DC shows I've only seen much of the Flash. It's fun, but I haven't had a lot of time with it. Never been that compelled to watch any of the others.
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