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[Witherweaver]

Ok. So I'm still alive.

I hope everyone learned a lesson today.

WW, did you know how many votes were really on me when you asked me to claim?

PPE: a bunch

Yes, but for the wrong reasons.  I thought ADK never voted for you and that Faust didn't revote for you.  Turns out that ADK did vote, but changed, and Faust went back to you, so I was off by one.

I really wanted you to say the words "I am flipping town" or something to that effect, though.

[silverspawn]

I believe that Ichi thought he was dead. His reaction makes him scummier than he was before.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah, nothing about Ichi's reaction to believing he was lynched screamed town to me.

[Witherweaver]

Wasn't a joke.

I am not telling you anything.

Please kill WW after my flip everyone.

PPE: What? You knew that and were trying to get me to claim?

The "I'm not telling you anything" is confusing to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I hope everyone learned a lesson today.

Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.

Ooh. SK silver playing town.

I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.

PPE: silver PR hunting.

Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.

[Witherweaver]

Ok. Well when I flip 5 minutes into D1, remember who was on my wagon--and who blatantly sheeped others and got away with it, and who voted without giving any reasons.

This confuses me, too.. right after he thought Joth hammered him.

[Witherweaver]

I hope everyone learned a lesson today.

Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.

Ooh. SK silver playing town.

I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.

PPE: silver PR hunting.

Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.

What's amazing about that at all?

[silverspawn]

I don't care if you guys kill me now.

I don't believe you. I don't think anyone does.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. Well when I flip 5 minutes into D1, remember who was on my wagon--and who blatantly sheeped others and got away with it, and who voted without giving any reasons.

This confuses me, too.. right after he thought Joth hammered him.

What's confusing about it?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I hope everyone learned a lesson today.

Just because Joth didn't derphammer you, doesn't mean you're not in trouble. Everything that applied before his accidental (?) L-1 still applies now.

Ooh. SK silver playing town.

I don't care if you guys kill me now. You basically already did.

PPE: silver PR hunting.

Ok. I'm just glad that WW didn't extract any information from me. I'm amazed that he admitted to forcing my claim even though I wasn't hammered.

What's amazing about that at all?

You taking advantage of my thinking I was hammered to try and PR hunt.

[A Drowned Kernel]

"Please kill WW after I am dead", without any sort of "well you guys lynched town, good job", especially when WW wasn't the one who hammered you, looks a lot like scum trying to sow confusion.

Vote: Ichimaru

This is L-2.

[Witherweaver]

It doesn't sound all that much like someone getting mislynched.  Or even someone that thought he was hammered.

[Ichimaru Gin]

"Please kill WW after I am dead", without any sort of "well you guys lynched town, good job", especially when WW wasn't the one who hammered you, looks a lot like scum trying to sow confusion.

Vote: Ichimaru

This is L-2.

At this point, I don't think you care what I would have said--you would have found a way to make it scummy.

The one time I did flip scum, I tried to convince town that they'd lost the game. If you really think I'm scum, I'm incredulous that you think I wouldn't mess with town by claiming I was town as I went down. So that makes no sense at all.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. I'll be gone for a while.

I doubt there's anything I could say now that people couldn't put a spin on. Please look back at my previous games if you care.
Looking at things objectively, my situation might improve if I'm gone and don't have a chance to defend myself.

I will not be claiming anything today, but I'm sure you would have lynched me in my absence anyway.

If I do survive (or I'm killed), I think I'll have learned something about my defensiveness.

That is all.

[silverspawn]

We are not lynching you while you are gone.

[faust]

Wow. Craziness. See no reason to move my vote for now.

[jotheonah]

I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.

[A Drowned Kernel]

But a town PR absolutely claims somewhere in that mess. And I think it's past the point where a claim would be all that plausible.

[Eevee]

Wow..

Well, this game got a fast start, that's for sure.

I guess Ichi's flip will be quite information for us now, if not anything else. I do share joth's concerns about the lack of claim though.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.

Well apparently town claims town here and that would have convinced ADK not to vote for me again.
[/end sarcasm]

Some thoughts.

1. I understand that many people view my defensiveness as scummy behavior. From my point of view, when I'm town, and I see what I perceive as poor votes on me, I am very reactive to them. I feel that scum is trying to cast suspicion on me and without my intervention will be picked up by others even when it has no basis at all--and this has happened in the past. Unfortunately, in my attempts to counter the numerous unexplained, unwarranted votes on me, it convinces other people that I am scum. Even more so, my reactive posts actually distract from the points that I am trying to make and the players I believe to be scum, furthering my annoyance.

2. I must admit that I am very displeased at the light attitude that many people seem to express in regards to my near mislynch. This has less to do with me, and more to do with others' irresponsibility by not warning for L-1, L-2 etc. And also not checking where things are before voting. These are very bad habits as they act as excuses to allay responsibility, and in later days chances for scum to quickhammer.

3. In regards to me claiming, I was suspicious when WW pressed me to claim--and since there was no vote count to refer to, I was aware that my conclusion that I had been lynched might be incorrect. As such, I refused to claim. Arguments surrounding what town/scum would have done are mostly worthless in my opinion. At that time, I was incredulous that town had botched things so badly and (I thought) hammered me so early on in D1. Starting D2 with 2 townies dead and virtually no information regarding the lynch is pretty bad. So I hope that people understand why I have been harping so much about people voting me without any reasoning. If you are determined to mislynch me, I at least want town to get information out of it.

4. At this point, I am incredibly suspicious of ADK and silver in particular. I know that I have largely distracted from silver's claim, but it is something that I would like to discuss more. In regards to ADK, his "cases" against me are nothing more than ill-disguised wagon jumping. In particular, his assertion that my claiming town would have changed his read on me is ludicrously illogical. Scum!anyone never claims scum, even at the end, so saying that would have made me townier is simply insane.

PPE: Eevee have I actually been lynched, or have you missed some of the thread?
How ironic that you thought it would give you any information, since so much of it was sheeped.

[A Drowned Kernel]

The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?

[Ichimaru Gin]

The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?

How is people making single posts voting for me with no explanation townie?

Really? You don't know I'm town, but I do. From that perspective I am almost 100% certain there is scum on my wagon. You are conveniently avoiding the suspicion regarding just how quickly my wagon grew, with a large percentage of votes being unexplained or blatant sheeping of others.

Since it seems like you've already made up your mind about me, maybe I'm wasting my breath here. But please just think about what I'm saying instead of more "you're scum!"

[Witherweaver]

I really think scum claims here though, right? That's the only thing that's giving me pause.

Well apparently town claims town here and that would have convinced ADK not to vote for me again.
[/end sarcasm]

Some thoughts.

1. I understand that many people view my defensiveness as scummy behavior. From my point of view, when I'm town, and I see what I perceive as poor votes on me, I am very reactive to them. I feel that scum is trying to cast suspicion on me and without my intervention will be picked up by others even when it has no basis at all--and this has happened in the past. Unfortunately, in my attempts to counter the numerous unexplained, unwarranted votes on me, it convinces other people that I am scum. Even more so, my reactive posts actually distract from the points that I am trying to make and the players I believe to be scum, furthering my annoyance.

This is obviously poor reasoning, as on average more town are going to vote against you than scum.  Moreover, there were not numerous unexplained and unwarranted votes.  When you started freaking out, you had two votes on you: Eevee and Faust.  Both were explained and reasonable.  ADK's wasn't unwarranted either, but regardless he changed his vote right away.

Also realize, even if you are scum and you feel the case against you is bad, and that people are voting for you for bad or unexplained reasons, then you're going to get upset and react strongly as well.  So it's not like there's only a town motivation for your reactions.

2. I must admit that I am very displeased at the light attitude that many people seem to express in regards to my near mislynch. This has less to do with me, and more to do with others' irresponsibility by not warning for L-1, L-2 etc. And also not checking where things are before voting. These are very bad habits as they act as excuses to allay responsibility, and in later days chances for scum to quickhammer.


3. In regards to me claiming, I was suspicious when WW pressed me to claim--and since there was no vote count to refer to, I was aware that my conclusion that I had been lynched might be incorrect. As such, I refused to claim. Arguments surrounding what town/scum would have done are mostly worthless in my opinion. At that time, I was incredulous that town had botched things so badly and (I thought) hammered me so early on in D1. Starting D2 with 2 townies dead and virtually no information regarding the lynch is pretty bad. So I hope that people understand why I have been harping so much about people voting me without any reasoning. If you are determined to mislynch me, I at least want town to get information out of it.

You were entirely convinced you were mislynched, or you were faking.  It can't be both.  I'm suspicious that you were suspicious.

4. At this point, I am incredibly suspicious of ADK and silver in particular. I know that I have largely distracted from silver's claim, but it is something that I would like to discuss more. In regards to ADK, his "cases" against me are nothing more than ill-disguised wagon jumping. In particular, his assertion that my claiming town would have changed his read on me is ludicrously illogical. Scum!anyone never claims scum, even at the end, so saying that would have made me townier is simply insane.

The ADK thing is possible.  To the last point, town getting mislynched here with a PR would say something like "well grats you just lynched your cop".  (See Sudgy in whatever game that was.)

PPEs

[Witherweaver]

The whole point of my case (besides your earlier reaction to silverspawn's claim which I still think is kind of scummy btw) is that I don't think that your reaction to "being lynched" was towny. Your posts looked to me like you were scum upset that you got lynched so early, and singling out WW as the person to lynch after looked like you were trying to introduce WIFOM. And assuming that people trying to get you lynched must be scum is pretty naive, what about your play makes you think that it's so obviously towny?

What does this make you think about my alignment?

[Ichimaru Gin]

I have to go to class, and I want to give WW's response the time it deserves. I will be back in a few hours.