Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: Gain a Peddler  (Read 23932 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6476
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7861
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2014, 12:54:35 pm »
0

2 Grand Markets is essentially

+2 Actions
+2 Cards
Gain a Peddler.

So each Grand Market is like nonterminal Gain half a Peddler~.

(Edit: Or, you know, don't gain a Peddler and use the money and buys for something else.)
By that logic, Woodcutter is essentially a terminal gain an Estate.

Logic rules.
Logged

market squire

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 219
  • Respect: +201
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2014, 07:08:28 am »
+1

Another thing that might be done by using "Gain a specific card from its pile" could be evolving like we know it from Urchin and Hermit.


Experiment (Action) $2
+1 Card +1 Action
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it costs $5 or more, trash this Experiment. If you do, gain a Laboratory from the Laboratory pile.

The Experiment may be successful if your deck is good enough. Then you can build a Lab for it.


Printer (Action) $4
+2 Actions
+$1
You may trash this. If you do, gain a Library from the Library pile.

A weak version of Festival that will always have the Library combo. Hard to tell whether it should cost $3 or $4. $3 would be more interesting, but double Printer opening is maybe too easy...


Architect (Action) $5
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $4 more.
If it costed $3-$4 more, trash this and gain a Remodel from the Remodel pile.

A devolving card. Every Architect has a very special talent that he will realize once in his live. Afterwards, he'll just do his normal job.


Pied Piper (Action-Attack) $3
+1 Action
Each player (including you) gains a Rats from the Rats pile.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck and put all revealed Rats into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.

No evolving card, but I'd like to hear what you guys think about a Rats attack. My old version of this had the ability to trash Rats, but I guess it's more interesting to just pull them out of the pile.
Logged

Holger

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • Respect: +458
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2014, 08:57:53 am »
+1

Experiment and Architect sound interesting. Printer might be too strong when compared to Feast (but then Feast is very weak, and Library is not the strongest $5). It's also not that interesting IMO.

Pied Piper seems very weak. It isn't really an Attack since you get the same (potential) junk as your opponents do. And with several PP's bought, Rats will pile out quickly, making the Rats good cards rather than bad ones. So the main helpful aspect of the card is the potential Rats draw, which is similar to, and probably as weak as, Scout.
Logged

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2014, 09:20:41 am »
0

It isn't really an Attack since you get the same (potential) junk as your opponents do.

The fact that you junk yourself is immaterial. "Gain 5 Curses. Each other player gains a Curse." would still be an Attack. Your opponents are getting Curses without wanting to.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2014, 09:59:58 am »
0

It isn't really an Attack since you get the same (potential) junk as your opponents do.

The fact that you junk yourself is immaterial. "Gain 5 Curses. Each other player gains a Curse." would still be an Attack. Your opponents are getting Curses without wanting to.

A card is an Attack if it has the Attack type.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

market squire

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 219
  • Respect: +201
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2014, 12:06:07 pm »
0

Well, maybe Pied Piper shouldn't give Rats to the active player. In my first version I wanted the card to get benefit from the Rats, so it had to gain a Rats for the active player. The new version might be okay just as a "normal" attack, maybe even without +1 Action, and (just for an idea) drawing more cards?

Pied Piper (Action-Attack) $3
Each other player gains a Rats from the Rats pile.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck and put all cards costing $3-$4 into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.

Printer might be too strong when compared to Feast (but then Feast is very weak, and Library is not the strongest $5). It's also not that interesting IMO.
Maybe it needs a condition and one more Action?

Printer (Action) $4
+3 Actions
+$1
If you have played at least 3 Actions this turn (including this), you may trash this. If you do, gain a Library from the Library pile.

Alternatively, there could be just the choice "+$1 oder trash for Library".
Logged

Holger

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • Respect: +458
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2014, 01:42:42 pm »
0

It isn't really an Attack since you get the same (potential) junk as your opponents do.

The fact that you junk yourself is immaterial. "Gain 5 Curses. Each other player gains a Curse." would still be an Attack. Your opponents are getting Curses without wanting to.

A card is an Attack if it has the Attack type.

Yes. Masquerade also lets opponents (and yourself) gain Curses occasionally, but it has no business being an Attack (barring pins). I don't think a card hurting each player equally needs to be an Attack. Otherwise you'd only hurt yourself when the opponents have Moat...
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5300
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3188
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2014, 01:44:24 pm »
0

It isn't really an Attack since you get the same (potential) junk as your opponents do.

The fact that you junk yourself is immaterial. "Gain 5 Curses. Each other player gains a Curse." would still be an Attack. Your opponents are getting Curses without wanting to.

A card is an Attack if it has the Attack type.

Yes. Masquerade also lets opponents (and yourself) gain Curses occasionally, but it has no business being an Attack (barring pins). I don't think a card hurting each player equally needs to be an Attack. Otherwise you'd only hurt yourself when the opponents have Moat...

masquerade is not an attack because it would be confusing with moat. if it weren't for that, it should absolutely be an attack.

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2014, 01:46:17 pm »
0

I don't think a card hurting each player equally needs to be an Attack.

The Attack portion of Minion hurts each player equally. You are choosing to play it, so whatever the card does that hurts you is your problem. The opponents are being affected without choosing to do so, i.e., they are attacked. If it hurts other players, it wants to be an Attack. Masquerade is not because it would be complicated rules-wise to make it one.
Logged

Holger

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • Respect: +458
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2014, 01:48:37 pm »
+1

Well, maybe Pied Piper shouldn't give Rats to the active player. In my first version I wanted the card to get benefit from the Rats, so it had to gain a Rats for the active player. The new version might be okay just as a "normal" attack, maybe even without +1 Action, and (just for an idea) drawing more cards?

Pied Piper (Action-Attack) $3
Each other player gains a Rats from the Rats pile.
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck and put all cards costing $3-$4 into your hand. Put the rest back in any order.

Printer might be too strong when compared to Feast (but then Feast is very weak, and Library is not the strongest $5). It's also not that interesting IMO.
Maybe it needs a condition and one more Action?

Printer (Action) $4
+3 Actions
+$1
If you have played at least 3 Actions this turn (including this), you may trash this. If you do, gain a Library from the Library pile.

Alternatively, there could be just the choice "+$1 oder trash for Library".

Make it "2 Actions" each, and it seems reasonable (maybe a bit weak). Requiring 2 prior Actions to trash it seems unnecessarily harsh.
Or do you mean for the condition to be considered after you played all your Actions? Then you need to add "At the beginning of your buy phase" or something like that.
Logged

Holger

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • Respect: +458
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2014, 02:06:05 pm »
0

masquerade is not an attack because it would be confusing with moat. if it weren't for that, it should absolutely be an attack.

Even if it wasn't confusing, I don't think it should be an Attack. It hurts other players much less than Possession on average (if at all), and Possession has no "confusing" excuse for not being an Attack. Tribute isn't an Attack either, though it can occasionally hurt your opponent, maybe more often than Masq.


I don't think a card hurting each player equally needs to be an Attack.

The Attack portion of Minion hurts each player equally. You are choosing to play it, so whatever the card does that hurts you is your problem. The opponents are being affected without choosing to do so, i.e., they are attacked. If it hurts other players, it wants to be an Attack. Masquerade is not because it would be complicated rules-wise to make it one.

Minion doesn't hurt you equally because you usually have less than 5 cards in hand after playing it, unlike your opponents. And you can play all cantrips in your hand (maybe even a good terminal) before playing Minion, so your remaining hand cards will be weaker than random new cards. Also, it doesn't ever force you to hurt yourself, you can always choose the Silver option instead.

I can understand you wanting this to be an Attack since it can hurt opponents substantially. But I think for balancing and "fairness" reasons it shouldn't be.
Logged

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #61 on: October 22, 2014, 02:12:40 pm »
0

Minion doesn't hurt you equally because you usually have less than 5 cards in hand after playing it, unlike your opponents. And you can play all cantrips in your hand (maybe even a good terminal) before playing Minion, so your remaining hand cards will be weaker than random new cards. Also, it doesn't ever force you to hurt yourself, you can always choose the Silver option instead.

You are also more likely to have more than 5 cards in hand than your opponents. You end up with a 4-card hand, just like them. The fact that you discard 4 instead of 5 (if you play Minion from a 5 card hand) does not make any different whatsoever. And the choice: you can always choose not to play a card, thus, no card is a "self-Attack". All terminal Attacks hurt you because they cost an Action and a card in hand you could have cellar'd or TfB or whatever. If you play Sea Hag or Saboteur and everyone else Moats, the you wasted your Action.  It is not the difference in effect what matters.

What is your argument for saying what a card does to you is important when deciding if an Action is an Attack or not? Because none of the existing cards consider that.

BTW, I think a self-junker is a bad idea for a card, but that is a different issue.
Logged

silverspawn

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5300
  • Shuffle iT Username: sty.silver
  • Respect: +3188
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #62 on: October 22, 2014, 02:14:56 pm »
0

Quote
Even if it wasn't confusing, I don't think it should be an Attack. It hurts other players much less than Possession on average (if at all), and Possession has no "confusing" excuse for not being an Attack. Tribute isn't an Attack either, though it can occasionally hurt your opponent, maybe more often than Masq.

that argument doesn't really work for me, because making it an attack is one of the first things I'd do to possession if I could. Y'know, after tearing it into pieces and flushing it down a toilet.

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #63 on: October 22, 2014, 02:17:53 pm »
+2

that argument doesn't really work for me, because making it an attack is one of the first things I'd do to possession if I could. Y'know, after tearing it into pieces and flushing it down a toilet.

So you would dive into the toilette Trainspotting-style to retrieve the pieces and put them back together to add the word "Attack" to it?
Logged

Holger

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • Respect: +458
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #64 on: October 22, 2014, 02:30:53 pm »
0

What is your argument for saying what a card does to you is important when deciding if an Action is an Attack or not? Because none of the existing cards consider that.

None of the existing cards hurt you the same way they hurt your opponents. My arguments are:

Balancing - an Attack card junking all players equally is likely either underpowered with Moat on the board, or overpowered without Moat. (Pied Piper is likely underpowered even when it's not an Attack, though...)

"Fairness" - an Attack is judged as "aggressive" because you hurt your opponents without hurting yourself the same way (and usually not at all). Giving everyone a Rats is "fair" to me, just like allowing everyone to remodel a card with Governor, or letting everyone draw card(s) with Council Room. (This is obviously a subjective argument.)

Maybe those arguments together with your argument "anything that hurts opponents should be an Attack" are the reason why there are no cards junking all players...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:37:28 pm by Holger »
Logged

Holger

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 736
  • Respect: +458
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2014, 02:34:32 pm »
0

Quote
Even if it wasn't confusing, I don't think it should be an Attack. It hurts other players much less than Possession on average (if at all), and Possession has no "confusing" excuse for not being an Attack. Tribute isn't an Attack either, though it can occasionally hurt your opponent, maybe more often than Masq.

that argument doesn't really work for me, because making it an attack is one of the first things I'd do to possession if I could. Y'know, after tearing it into pieces and flushing it down a toilet.

I sympathize with you ;D. I'd also like Possession to be an Attack, but Donald obviously doesn't agree with us...
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2014, 04:11:34 pm »
+1

What is your argument for saying what a card does to you is important when deciding if an Action is an Attack or not? Because none of the existing cards consider that.

None of the existing cards hurt you the same way they hurt your opponents. My arguments are:

Balancing - an Attack card junking all players equally is likely either underpowered with Moat on the board, or overpowered without Moat. (Pied Piper is likely underpowered even when it's not an Attack, though...)

"Fairness" - an Attack is judged as "aggressive" because you hurt your opponents without hurting yourself the same way (and usually not at all). Giving everyone a Rats is "fair" to me, just like allowing everyone to remodel a card with Governor, or letting everyone draw card(s) with Council Room. (This is obviously a subjective argument.)

Maybe those arguments together with your argument "anything that hurts opponents should be an Attack" are the reason why there are no cards junking all players...

The difference between "everyone gets a Rats" and "everyone may Remodel/Upgrade a card" is that the latter gives them the option.  The difference between "everyone gets a Rats" and "everyone draws a card" is that drawing a card is usually a good thing.

Awaclus is technically correct that a card is an Attack if it has the Attack type.  That's not really useful for discussion though.  We can talk about what cards should be labelled an Attack.  If what it does to other players generally hurts them, it should be labelled an Attack.

There are some judgement calls you have to make here.  Possession is one.  I still think it is correct to not call it an Attack, but I can understand why some feel otherwise.  Likewise for Masquerade, though I think it's a weaker argument for that than for Possession.  Then there's the forced Silver gaining from Governor, but Silver is usually an OK card except in tight engines at the highest levels of play.

It doesn't matter what the card does to you.  "Fairness" is not a consideration. 

NotWorthIt
Gain two Curses.  Each other player gains a Curse.

This should still be an attack.  You talked about Minion earlier, and how it hurts others more because you can reduce your handsize before discarding, play off cantrips, etc.  You can similarly mitigate other self-damaging attacks too.  You can wait until you have a Trader in hand before playing NotWorthIt, for example.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2014, 04:48:03 pm »
0

What is your argument for saying what a card does to you is important when deciding if an Action is an Attack or not? Because none of the existing cards consider that.

None of the existing cards hurt you the same way they hurt your opponents. My arguments are:

Balancing - an Attack card junking all players equally is likely either underpowered with Moat on the board, or overpowered without Moat. (Pied Piper is likely underpowered even when it's not an Attack, though...)

"Fairness" - an Attack is judged as "aggressive" because you hurt your opponents without hurting yourself the same way (and usually not at all). Giving everyone a Rats is "fair" to me, just like allowing everyone to remodel a card with Governor, or letting everyone draw card(s) with Council Room. (This is obviously a subjective argument.)

Maybe those arguments together with your argument "anything that hurts opponents should be an Attack" are the reason why there are no cards junking all players...

The difference between "everyone gets a Rats" and "everyone may Remodel/Upgrade a card" is that the latter gives them the option.  The difference between "everyone gets a Rats" and "everyone draws a card" is that drawing a card is usually a good thing.

Awaclus is technically correct that a card is an Attack if it has the Attack type.  That's not really useful for discussion though.  We can talk about what cards should be labelled an Attack.  If what it does to other players generally hurts them, it should be labelled an Attack.

There are some judgement calls you have to make here.  Possession is one.  I still think it is correct to not call it an Attack, but I can understand why some feel otherwise.  Likewise for Masquerade, though I think it's a weaker argument for that than for Possession.  Then there's the forced Silver gaining from Governor, but Silver is usually an OK card except in tight engines at the highest levels of play.

It doesn't matter what the card does to you.  "Fairness" is not a consideration. 

NotWorthIt
Gain two Curses.  Each other player gains a Curse.

This should still be an attack.  You talked about Minion earlier, and how it hurts others more because you can reduce your handsize before discarding, play off cantrips, etc.  You can similarly mitigate other self-damaging attacks too.  You can wait until you have a Trader in hand before playing NotWorthIt, for example.

I agree with 100% of this. And if you think that you're more likely to have 5+ cards in hand than your opponent when you play Minion, then you're playing Minion poorly.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2014, 04:58:33 pm »
+2

I agree with 100% of this. And if you think that you're more likely to have 5+ cards in hand than your opponent when you play Minion, then you're playing Minion poorly.

When I play Minion, most of the time my opponent has 4 cards in hand.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2014, 05:33:43 pm »
+1

Awaclus is technically correct that a card is an Attack if it has the Attack type.  That's not really useful for discussion though.  We can talk about what cards should be labelled an Attack.  If what it does to other players generally hurts them, it should be labelled an Attack.

The interactions between players in Dominion are too complex to say that doing thing X hurts your opponent or doesn't hurt your opponent; any gainer can hurt my opponent when I use it to gain the last Village (any card with +$ or +buy too for the same reason), any trasher can hurt my opponent when I use it to trash Silvers right before he plays his Rogue. Indirectly, any cards with +2 or more cards or +2 or more actions can also hurt my opponent, because they're helping me play more Actions that hurt my opponent. I guess that you could even say that Victory cards should be Attack cards, because they give me more points, which lets me end the game in a victory, which means my opponents lose, which obviously hurts them.

Therefore, I'm suggesting that it should be labeled an Attack if you want Moat, Urchin, Squire and other cards to work with it. There are two different reasons why you would or would not want your card to interact with Moat etc:

1) It feels or doesn't feel intuitive — if a careless player is likely to read (or experience) what the card does and buy a Moat as a way to defend against it, then it's more intuitive to make it an Attack card (and if not, then not). This is true for all official Attack cards, also definitely true for Possession, and to a lesser extent also true for Masquerade. I think it is also true for a card that hands out Curses for everyone. I don't think it's necessarily true for a card that hands out Rats for everyone — free Rats, that's awesome, normally I would have to pay $4 for it and apparently the designer of the game has intended for me to buy it at that cost anyway. We know that it actually does hurt you to get a Rats in most situations, but Lord Bottington, for example, likes them very much, and many new players haven't realized that a cantrip doesn't actually do anything useful on its own. There are also obvious reasons why it could be seen as a bad thing to get a free Rats. I'm pretty sure that some people will find it confusing if this is an Attack, and others will find it confusing if this isn't an Attack. I think it's better to make it an Attack in these kinds of situations, because when people find an Attack confusing in this way, the reaction is like "oh well, this is weird, why's this an Attack?", and then they'll brush it off and not care about it, but when people find a non-Attack card confusing in this way, the reaction is like "why doesn't Goko let me reveal this Moat that I already bought just for this purpose, Dominion sucks".

2) Interacting or not interacting with said cards is a key part of the functionality of the card. This could be true for the following card, for instance:

Flare
$2 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each player reveals his hand and discards all the Reaction cards in it.

The purpose of this card is to get rid of those Reactions in your opponents' hands, take a look at those hands while you're at it, and activate your own Tunnels (hey, that's more flavorful than I even intended!). It wouldn't work if it was an Attack, because then it couldn't get rid of the Reactions. Masquerade has to be a plain Action because interacting with Moat would be confusing. Possession has to be a plain Action because interacting with Moat would make it completely useless. I don't think there's any particular reason why "everyone gains a Rats" shouldn't be an Attack for technical reasons.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2014, 05:57:57 pm »
0

Awaclus, the first paragraph of your post is completely unhelpful to anyone. It makes me think of those annoying people that put up their hands in the middle of a long proof and interrupt the line of thoughts to say there should be 6 instead of 5 closing parenthesis at the end.

Regarding Possession, I would make a ruling for online Dominion that the state of hand, deck and things played/set aside is restored after the Possessed hand. That way Possession would really be a strange gainer and nothing else.
Logged

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2014, 06:24:09 pm »
0

The interactions between players in Dominion are too complex to say that doing thing X hurts your opponent or doesn't hurt your opponent; any gainer can hurt my opponent when I use it to gain the last Village (any card with +$ or +buy too for the same reason), any trasher can hurt my opponent when I use it to trash Silvers right before he plays his Rogue. Indirectly, any cards with +2 or more cards or +2 or more actions can also hurt my opponent, because they're helping me play more Actions that hurt my opponent. I guess that you could even say that Victory cards should be Attack cards, because they give me more points, which lets me end the game in a victory, which means my opponents lose, which obviously hurts them.

Man, those are just edge cases and pedantry.  "An effect that helps you or puts you ahead" is distinct from "an effect that hurts the opponent or puts him behind".  But fine, I'll clarify -- a card should be an attack if it hurts other players directly by forcing them to do something they usually would not want.

A gainer doesn't work -- this isn't forcing anything on your opponent (and gaining the last village is not generally the thing that happens when you play a gainer anyway).  Trashing a Silver does not directly impact others; they can choose not to play that Rogue.  Your other examples are even less direct.  Village "hurts your opponent" as much as it is "a Province gainer because it helps me play more Actions that will help me gain a Province".  There is a separation here that shouldn't need to be clarified.  The discard attack is part of Militia, not part of the Village you played before Militia.  This should be obvious.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11808
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12846
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2014, 06:30:05 pm »
0

Awaclus, the first paragraph of your post is completely unhelpful to anyone. It makes me think of those annoying people that put up their hands in the middle of a long proof and interrupt the line of thoughts to say there should be 6 instead of 5 closing parenthesis at the end.

Without the first paragraph, there would have been nothing to "therefore" about. And then there would have been no post at all. I couldn't have made statements that were in conflict with eHalcyon's statement without pointing out why eHalcyon's statement isn't true. You can't think that only the first paragraph is completely unhelpful because everything else follows from it. Thinking that the entire post is completely unhelpful is reasonable, of course, but then it would be strange that you only complained about the first paragraph.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9187
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2014, 06:42:06 pm »
0

Awaclus, the first paragraph of your post is completely unhelpful to anyone. It makes me think of those annoying people that put up their hands in the middle of a long proof and interrupt the line of thoughts to say there should be 6 instead of 5 closing parenthesis at the end.

Without the first paragraph, there would have been nothing to "therefore" about. And then there would have been no post at all. I couldn't have made statements that were in conflict with eHalcyon's statement without pointing out why eHalcyon's statement isn't true. You can't think that only the first paragraph is completely unhelpful because everything else follows from it. Thinking that the entire post is completely unhelpful is reasonable, of course, but then it would be strange that you only complained about the first paragraph.

Your statements aren't really in conflict with mine.  Your first point, "if it feels intuitive" -- that's just a less precise way of saying what I said.  When would a player find it intuitive that a Moat would block another card?  When that card forces you to do something you don't want to do, i.e. when it hurts you.

Your second point is more an exception than a rule, as far as we've seen in official cards.  You can use it to help explain why Masquerade and Possession aren't attacks, but it's not really necessary.  "Does it generally hurt?" is enough for those two (though it's controversial with Possession, sure).
Logged

soulnet

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2142
  • Respect: +1751
    • View Profile
Re: Gain a Peddler
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2014, 07:16:22 pm »
0

Without the first paragraph, there would have been nothing to "therefore" about. And then there would have been no post at all. I couldn't have made statements that were in conflict with eHalcyon's statement without pointing out why eHalcyon's statement isn't true. You can't think that only the first paragraph is completely unhelpful because everything else follows from it. Thinking that the entire post is completely unhelpful is reasonable, of course, but then it would be strange that you only complained about the first paragraph.

Usually, when the annoying student does the annoying thing of interrupting a line of thoughts for nuances just to show how much he or she knows about formalities, I would ask politely tell him that what he or she is doing is hurting everyone else's understanding and not take his or her questions anymore until the end of the lecture. In this case, I have no means to avoid you posting, but I would just stop responding to you on this topic.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.111 seconds with 21 queries.