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Author Topic: Goko Prince Scheme bug?  (Read 5956 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2014, 11:57:46 am »
+1

If you Prince a Throne Room and use it on a duration card, does the TR stick to the duration or does it return to Prince?

I suspect it sticks to the duration, but rulings on this have changed in the past.

It sticks to the duration. Prince attempts to set it aside at the end of the turn, but fails to because the TR is not being discarded from play.

Slight correction, Prince never attempts to set it aside at the end of the turn. Prince only does something when the card is discarded, it doesn't automatically do something at end of turn.
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Asper

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2014, 01:43:13 pm »
+1

After having my first games with Prince recently, i thought about it setting aside a Possessed players Tactician. Boy, i was happy when i remembered that doesn't work. I mean, if it played Durations only every second turn it wouldn't be that awful (every second turn is awesome, every first doesn't exist), but still. I assume there are some nasty Prince-Possession moves, anyhow, like Rats or Trading Post (provided the possessed one bought them in the first place).

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2014, 02:18:12 pm »
0

After having my first games with Prince recently, i thought about it setting aside a Possessed players Tactician. Boy, i was happy when i remembered that doesn't work. I mean, if it played Durations only every second turn it wouldn't be that awful (every second turn is awesome, every first doesn't exist), but still. I assume there are some nasty Prince-Possession moves, anyhow, like Rats or Trading Post (provided the possessed one bought them in the first place).
Remake is also pretty nice, especially if you have a Militia or something.
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Jeebus

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2014, 10:32:16 am »
0

I'll just claim you genuinely misunderstood me, so, yes, i know that. I wonder why that text had to limit it to "The turn you play it". It's not like it was necessary for Scheme (where lose track is the reason Prince may fail) or one-shots (which will not be discarded afterwards - unless you gain them back from the trash, where Prince loses track again). So was it just because Donald didn't want cards being played every second turn?

What you're saying is in essence to remove the whole parenthesis. Keeping just "Stop playing it if you fail to set it aside" doesn't make much sense. Removing the last part ("on a turn you play it") seems to only make the conditions (for Prince stopping to play it) happen more often, since there is now less restrictions on when. But actually it just makes everything less clear.

So what you actually mean is to remove the whole sentence. What you're saying is that Prince should not ever stop playing the card on purpose, but rather that losing track will take care of it. But actually losing track will not prevent a card from being played. Without a proper way of knowing when Prince should stop playing a card, it will be played no matter where it is. A Feast will keep giving you a $5 card every turn for the rest of the game, for the same reason as Throning a Feast gives you two cards. With a Fishing Village, like LastFootnote said (with a slight correction): The turn after you set aside Fishing Village, you get [+2 Actions; +$1]. Every turn after that, you'd get [+3 Actions; +$2].

Asper

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2014, 01:51:40 pm »
+1

I'll just claim you genuinely misunderstood me, so, yes, i know that. I wonder why that text had to limit it to "The turn you play it". It's not like it was necessary for Scheme (where lose track is the reason Prince may fail) or one-shots (which will not be discarded afterwards - unless you gain them back from the trash, where Prince loses track again). So was it just because Donald didn't want cards being played every second turn?

What you're saying is in essence to remove the whole parenthesis. Keeping just "Stop playing it if you fail to set it aside" doesn't make much sense. Removing the last part ("on a turn you play it") seems to only make the conditions (for Prince stopping to play it) happen more often, since there is now less restrictions on when. But actually it just makes everything less clear.

So what you actually mean is to remove the whole sentence. What you're saying is that Prince should not ever stop playing the card on purpose, but rather that losing track will take care of it. But actually losing track will not prevent a card from being played. Without a proper way of knowing when Prince should stop playing a card, it will be played no matter where it is. A Feast will keep giving you a $5 card every turn for the rest of the game, for the same reason as Throning a Feast gives you two cards. With a Fishing Village, like LastFootnote said (with a slight correction): The turn after you set aside Fishing Village, you get [+2 Actions; +$1]. Every turn after that, you'd get [+3 Actions; +$2].

I indeed made some mistakes about the lose-track rule in the last weeks. By now i too have come to understand it just keeps you from moving cards. So yes, you are of course right that the lose-track doesn't work to keep Prince from playing a card if leaving out the part in parantheses is all the change you do. You would have to tie the play to the set-aside:

Prince, 8$
You may set this aside. If you do, set aside another action card from your hand costing up to 4$. At the start of each of your turns, if that action is set aside, play it. Set it aside again when you discard it from play.

silverspawn

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2014, 02:00:05 pm »
0

while we're at it, why not move the "you may" 6 words to the right?

Quote
Set this aside. If you do, you may set aside an Action card from your hand costing up to 4$ ...

that way you a) don't have the pointless decision anymore to play or not play the prince and b) no more tracking problems. any big problem I'm missing?

The "problem" with the new set-aside wording is, now duration cards are played every second turn, which is hard to remember.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 02:04:39 pm by silverspawn »
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Joseph2302

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2014, 02:04:54 pm »
0

while we're at it, why not move the "you may" 6 words to the right?

Quote
Set this aside. If you do, you may set aside an Action card from your hand costing up to 4$. At the start of each of your turns, if that action is set aside, play it. Set it aside again when you discard it from play.

that way you a) don't have the pointless decision anymore to play or not play the prince and b) no more tracking problems. any big problem I'm missing?

Yes, you're forced to set with aside with Herald/Golem, even if you don't have an action to set it aside with. So this small edit makes it weaker on some boards. At the moment, if you play it with Herald/Golem, you can just not set it aside if you want.
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silverspawn

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2014, 02:06:16 pm »
0

Quote
Yes, you're forced to set with aside with Herald/Golem, even if you don't have an action to set it aside with. So this small edit makes it weaker on some boards. At the moment, if you play it with Herald/Golem, you can just not set it aside if you want.

Well I'm obviously aware of that, but it seems like a non-issue, and other cards sure don't care about it. forager can force you to trash a province, stuff like that has happened before.

edit: though we probably should not discuss this here, because even wording changes are variants, so it's not the right place.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 02:07:30 pm by silverspawn »
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Asper

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Re: Goko Prince Scheme bug?
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2014, 02:39:45 pm »
0

The "problem" with the new set-aside wording is, now duration cards are played every second turn, which is hard to remember.

It's hard to remember because knowing when to clean up and when not to clean up a Duration is hard to remember. It's not Prince who does that.

Anyhow, Donald's feedback on this approach was that you get "only half of what you paid for". I can definitely see the point of this, but on the other hand many durations are pretty good anyhow. Outpost, one of the worst, would be played after each of your regular turns, even. It's not like it breaks the game - not being able to Scheme a Feast didn't cause a riot either.

Also, what i just noticed: If you actually could play Durations, you could also Prince Tactician. Contrary to what i said before (in another thread, i think), that wouldn't mean you start every turn with no cards in hand. Instead, if you play durations every turn, you could resolve the Princed one first and then the effect from last turn, starting every turn with 5 cards, 2 actions and 2 buys. Or if you played it every second turn, you would pass one turn, then play a double turn next time. Then pass, and so on.

Also, when answering to Jeebus before, i forgot to mention i allready pointed out the need to tie the play and set-aside together:

I was coming from the german version of the card (which lacks a bit in clarity anyhow), but i'll try an english version that works as i meant:

"You may set this aside. If you do, set aside an Action card from your hand costing up to 4. At the start of each of your turns, if that Action is set aside, play it, setting it aside again when you discard it from play."

I got my answer though. Thanks, Donald. :)
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