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Author Topic: Update 28 August 2014  (Read 13852 times)

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Holger

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2014, 12:04:02 pm »
+1

...

I see, that's too bad. Maybe they've increased rating changes for a while to get rid of the adventure rating bug's aftermath?
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ragingduckd

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2014, 12:27:28 pm »
+4

Can you talk to goko directly?  Why don't this listen to you?

(Better Q, why aren't they paying you, but I think that's a different discussion :P ).

I've tried it on a few occasions.  I mostly just get ignored.  I sent this to a developer on MF a few days before I posted their rating algorithm.  I never got a response.



I've blacked out the developer's name and the quote from one of their forum posts.  No point in picking out an individual when it's the institution that's at fault.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 12:29:15 pm by ragingduckd »
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Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

theblankman

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2014, 01:49:23 pm »
0

Anybody want to collect some data for me?  I need ratings for both you and your opponent before (or during) and after the game.  Open a JS console and run this command, using your own player names instead of "guest4261":

Code: [Select]
conn.getPlayerId({developerId:'', playerName:'guest4261'}).then(function(x) { conn.getRating({
      version: 1,
      playerId: x.playerId,
      ratingSystemId: mtgRoom.options.ratingSystemPro
  }).then(function (resp) {
      console.log(resp.ratingData);
  });
})
Would it be worthwhile to have Salvager do that for you, i.e. hook to the beginning and end of games to get the user's rating change and send it to a DB on gokosalvager.com (if you already maintain a DB of games, maybe just add columns for initial and final rating)?  Could you pull the opponent's starting and ending ratings with similar code?
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ragingduckd

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 01:58:23 pm »
+3

Guys, I'm really sorry.  My earlier post about the changes to the rating system was completely wrong.  I had a sneaky Python bug that left the code running without visible errors, but which produced all the wrong numbers.

I have no reason to think the rating system has changed.  The rating changes I'm getting still jive with Goko Pro as I described it back in April.  As for my -30 game against Serf Bot, I still have no idea how that happened.

(Better Q, why aren't they paying you, but I think that's a different discussion :P ).

Maybe this is why. :P
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Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

ThaddeusB

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 06:53:56 pm »
+3

Quote from:  Jeff (Developer)
Play vs. Bots now uses the Pro rating system, which is used for fair games. If you want to play bots under the Casual system, you still can by creating a table with the casual system and inviting a bot.

Hmm... so the bad news that now I have to actually play out the game when I want to test a feature.  The other bad news is that I lose 30 points even for a win:



I'm pretty sure this shouldn't be possible unless someone at Goko has been messing with their TS parameters.  And they'd have to be pretty insane parameter at that.  Is this just a bug?

Normally you get 15 coins for a win, 10 for a tie.  Perhaps it was graded as a tie for some strange reason? When you tie, it still says "you're the winner".

Another possibility is the ~6 points a day you lose to inactivity are shown on the next game played.  Maybe you gained 0 for the game, but had lost 30 points since you last played.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 06:56:17 pm by ThaddeusB »
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AdamH

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2014, 09:05:38 am »
0

Hmm... so the bad news that now I have to actually play out the game when I want to test a feature.

Presenting the quickest kingdom to play out a game (in time elapsed, not number of turns): Council Room, Smithy, Harvest, Woodcutter, Outpost, Feast, Coppersmith, Secret Chamber, Transmute, Peddler. Province/Estates.

All actions are terminals (besides Peddler which will never be bought over Gold), Council Room helps your opponent, there are no attacks, and there are few gainers or cards that require meaningful choices or take time to resolve. Contenders welcome, I refuse to test this or alternate submissions.

When I was grinding for coins to use on zaps for the adventures back in the day, I played 6P games with 5 bots that had Hermit/Market Square on them. Those games seemed to go by relatively quickly.
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Holger

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2014, 04:42:32 pm »
+4

Guys, I'm really sorry.  My earlier post about the changes to the rating system was completely wrong.  I had a sneaky Python bug that left the code running without visible errors, but which produced all the wrong numbers.

I have no reason to think the rating system has changed.  The rating changes I'm getting still jive with Goko Pro as I described it back in April.  As for my -30 game against Serf Bot, I still have no idea how that happened.



(Better Q, why aren't they paying you, but I think that's a different discussion :P ).

Maybe this is why. :P

I thought it was a requirement for employment at Goko to make mistakes?  :P :P


Normally you get 15 coins for a win, 10 for a tie.  Perhaps it was graded as a tie for some strange reason? When you tie, it still says "you're the winner".

No, you only get 10 coins for a win against a bot (I think you get 15 coins only for wins against human opponents).
A tie would explain the rating loss, though I'd expect it to be even more than 30 points then.
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ThaddeusB

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2014, 12:59:16 pm »
+1


Normally you get 15 coins for a win, 10 for a tie.  Perhaps it was graded as a tie for some strange reason? When you tie, it still says "you're the winner".

No, you only get 10 coins for a win against a bot (I think you get 15 coins only for wins against human opponents).
A tie would explain the rating loss, though I'd expect it to be even more than 30 points then.

I am now confident it was due to increased uncertainty after not playing for several days that carried the loss. Evidently displayed rating only changes when you play a game while true rating changes daily . Thus if you don't play for a few days a dozen or more point loss (30 here) will be incorporated into your next game.
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Titandrake

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2014, 01:07:48 pm »
+1

Hmm... so the bad news that now I have to actually play out the game when I want to test a feature.

Presenting the quickest kingdom to play out a game (in time elapsed, not number of turns): Council Room, Smithy, Harvest, Woodcutter, Outpost, Feast, Coppersmith, Secret Chamber, Transmute, Peddler. Province/Estates.

All actions are terminals (besides Peddler which will never be bought over Gold), Council Room helps your opponent, there are no attacks, and there are few gainers or cards that require meaningful choices or take time to resolve. Contenders welcome, I refuse to test this or alternate submissions.

Baker > Transmute, the bot may buy them but getting to open 5/3 sounds better.

An IW/Hamlet/Workshop/Gardens deck might also be pretty fast, but your turns could take a while.
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Holger

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2014, 02:41:08 pm »
+2


Normally you get 15 coins for a win, 10 for a tie.  Perhaps it was graded as a tie for some strange reason? When you tie, it still says "you're the winner".

No, you only get 10 coins for a win against a bot (I think you get 15 coins only for wins against human opponents).
A tie would explain the rating loss, though I'd expect it to be even more than 30 points then.

I am now confident it was due to increased uncertainty after not playing for several days that carried the loss. Evidently displayed rating only changes when you play a game while true rating changes daily . Thus if you don't play for a few days a dozen or more point loss (30 here) will be incorporated into your next game.

Yes, but according to Gokosalvager (http://gokosalvager.com/logsearch?p1name=Andrew+Iannaccone&p1score=any&p2name=&startdate=08%2F05%2F2012&enddate=09%2F15%2F2014&supply=&nonsupply=&rating=pro&pcount=2&colony=any&bot=any&shelters=any&guest=false&minturns=&maxturns=&quit=any&resign=any&limit=20&submitted=true&offset=20), he played another Pro game only hours before...
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ragingduckd

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Re: Update 28 August 2014
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2014, 08:26:15 pm »
+1


Normally you get 15 coins for a win, 10 for a tie.  Perhaps it was graded as a tie for some strange reason? When you tie, it still says "you're the winner".

No, you only get 10 coins for a win against a bot (I think you get 15 coins only for wins against human opponents).
A tie would explain the rating loss, though I'd expect it to be even more than 30 points then.

I am now confident it was due to increased uncertainty after not playing for several days that carried the loss. Evidently displayed rating only changes when you play a game while true rating changes daily . Thus if you don't play for a few days a dozen or more point loss (30 here) will be incorporated into your next game.

This explanation requires the player to have initial uncertainty of ~1400.  For a regular player, uncertainty is < 300.  At +1% uncertainty per day, that's an awfully long time sitting inactive, about 5 months without a game.

Code: [Select]
Initial Uncertainty = 1400:
    AI Rating - Before:
    6500.00 +/- 1400.00
    Displayed as 3700
   
    AI Rating - After:
    6513.54 +/- 1390.26
    Displayed as 3733
   
    Displayed Change: -33

Python script to produce this output is attached, including rating info for me and Serf Bot.  The trueskill Python module is required.
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Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!
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